Borderland: 4 Player "Down But Not Out" Run

2012-07-31 06:58:27 pm

i'll be able to join the practice runs tomorrow. my xboxlive id is graxic. looking forward to giving this game a honest try.

oozaroo

2012-08-01 10:13:18 pm

That is cool that people wanna help =O will be more precise for 4 player. For my part i'll be more into borderlands after the marathon i'm doing and btw trushade if there is some glitch you know that you think i dont you should show them to me O_O. Won't take long before i can do them i learn pretty quick

Arkhanno

Edit history:

Arkhanno: 2012-08-08 12:57:35 am

Arkhanno: 2012-08-08 12:57:03 am

2012-08-08 12:55:53 am

I love Borderlands. I've played the hell out of this game and know a thing or two about it. I'd love to see a 4 player run of this game. So to help out I'd like to drop some knowledge of things to help a run.

Mordecai:

In a casual run Mordecai is one of the strongest characters. I don't know too much about a melee build from him, like was suggested before, but I do know that if you get a Fury in his hands, especially a Double Fury, he is a monster. This would later be replaced by a Double Thanatos. This would also allow for a use of Revolvers for precise and high damage shots, like taking out Rakk from long range. Early in the run Mordecai could look for a Masher Revolver whereas later he could look for a Defiler or Unforgiven. Assuming you are going down this path as Mordecai I would suggest going down this skill path for up to level 30:

5 Deadly
5 Gun Crazy
5 Focus
5 Hair Trigger
5 Relentless

This build is all about the power Mordecai and dish out. I skipped Fast Hands in this build because it would require getting Swift Strike for the Bloodwing, which I find to be random and useless overall. If it is seen that the Bloodwing is actually useful then dropping Relentless and (It pains me to say this) Gun Crazy would probably be the best bet.

Sledge's Shotgun:

It's a very fun glitch to use and is very practical for a speed run. Lining it up before the duel starts and pulling it off on the first jump. If all four players have Sledge's Shotgun then it can be done to send two players off in the distance then those two who were shot can then line up another. This leaves the first two people who were left behind to either complete a quest or to send one of them flying. Then again, I don't even know if it's possible to have two duels at the same time. It might not be possible to do it like that.

Brick Speed Glitch:

On Xbox you can only have the host use the speed glitch. For some reason, and I don't know why this is, but only the host can do it. It's probably because of major latency issues. I don't know about PC because I haven't tested it.

If I think of anything else then I'll come back to this thread. I do think it would be nice to have all four classes, but it's possible that Mordecai may need to be dropped for another Lilith.

I love Borderlands. I've played the hell out of this game and know a thing or two about it. I'd love to see a 4 player run of this game. So to help out I'd like to drop some knowledge of things to help a run.

Mordecai:

In a casual run Mordecai is one of the strongest characters. I don't know too much about a melee build from him, like was suggested before, but I do know that if you get a [url=http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Fury]Fury[/url] in his hands, especially a Double Fury, he is a monster. This would later be replaced by a Double [url=http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Thanatos]Thanatos[/url]. This would also allow for a use of Revolvers for precise and high damage shots, like taking out Rakk from long range. Early in the run Mordecai could look for a Masher Revolver whereas later he could look for a Defiler or Unforgiven. Assuming you are going down this path as Mordecai I would suggest going down this skill path for up to level 30:

5 Deadly
5 Gun Crazy
5 Focus
5 Hair Trigger
5 Relentless

This build is all about the power Mordecai and dish out. I skipped Fast Hands in this build because it would require getting Swift Strike for the Bloodwing, which I find to be random and useless overall. If it is seen that the Bloodwing is actually useful then dropping Relentless and (It pains me to say this) Gun Crazy would probably be the best bet.

Sledge's Shotgun:

http://youtu.be/3iFP8-FNEno

It's a very fun glitch to use and is very practical for a speed run. Lining it up before the duel starts and pulling it off on the first jump. If all four players have Sledge's Shotgun then it can be done to send two players off in the distance then those two who were shot can then line up another. This leaves the first two people who were left behind to either complete a quest or to send one of them flying. Then again, I don't even know if it's possible to have two duels at the same time. It might not be possible to do it like that.

Brick Speed Glitch:

On Xbox you can only have the host use the speed glitch. For some reason, and I don't know why this is, but only the host can do it. It's probably because of major latency issues. I don't know about PC because I haven't tested it.

If I think of anything else then I'll come back to this thread. I do think it would be nice to have all four classes, but it's possible that Mordecai may need to be dropped for another Lilith.

TrUShade

2012-08-08 02:18:50 am

The TrUest of Shades

Thank you for that post Arkhanno

Mordecai - haven't really though of builds for any classes yet. but that might work well with the class.

Sledge's Shotgun: Interesting, might see what we can do with that. But we don't want to get to places where we are very underleveled.

Brick Speed Glitch: We know that, but thank you for posting it anyways.

Arkhanno

Edit history:

Arkhanno: 2012-08-08 08:20:10 am

2012-08-08 08:19:51 am

I mainly posted that bit about the Brick speed glitch because someone was confused about it earlier in the thread. It was just for confirmation.

If you haven't thought of builds for classes yet then let me help with that. Cheesy

Lilith:

5 Diva
5 Inner Glow
5 Hard to Get
5 Slayer
5 Hit & Run

This build is all about maximizing Phasewalk's usefulness while giving a little bit of a damage increase. Lowering the cooldown and increasing the duration. This only goes up to 30, but if you level past that then Blackout would be the next in line.

Roland:

5 Defense
5 Barrage
5 Deploy
5 Supply Drop
5 Sentry

or

5 Defense
5 Quick Charge
5 Grenadier
5 Fitness
5 Overload

These builds were harder to choose from. I give two builds because I don't know which would be better. The first one focuses on the Scorpio Turret and makes it an all-around decent skill to use. If you need to drop it for some extra ammo because Support Gunner is being slow, go for it; if you need to drop it because some extra DPS is needed or you want to kill some mobs that you skip then go for it. Stockpile is skipped because of Support Gunner. Supply Drop could be skipped as well because you might not need it that late in the run. If it turns out that you don't have ammo problems then I'd suggest Grenadier so you don't have to stop to buy grenades for grenade jumping. The second build is based on turning Roland into more of a tank character. The Scorpio is only dropped to add some more DPS, if it's needed.

Brick:

5 Rapid Reload
5 Revenge
5 Cast Iron
5 Master Blaster
5 Safeguard

This build is all about increasing Brick's damage to make him more of a threat. Since Brick can't use his ability it makes the Berserk skills useless. Going for Rapid Reload first gives you a smaller spread (Recoil reduction reduces spread, in case you didn't know!) and more flexibility with weapons. Cast Iron is so grenade jumping isn't as painful, Blaster Master for the fire rate increase, and Safeguard over Hardened because your shield will have higher capacity than your maximum health.

Brick turns into a bit less of a tank in this build, but he turns into a major threat.

I hope that helps a bit. Those builds I posted are just what I would use in a speed run setting with a cap level of 30. Some are easier than others to come up with. (I'm looking at you, Roland and Brick.)

I mainly posted that bit about the Brick speed glitch because someone was confused about it earlier in the thread. It was just for confirmation.

If you haven't thought of builds for classes yet then let me help with that. :D

Lilith:

5 Diva
5 Inner Glow
5 Hard to Get
5 Slayer
5 Hit & Run

This build is all about maximizing Phasewalk's usefulness while giving a little bit of a damage increase. Lowering the cooldown and increasing the duration. This only goes up to 30, but if you level past that then Blackout would be the next in line.

Roland:

5 Defense
5 Barrage
5 Deploy
5 Supply Drop
5 Sentry

or

5 Defense
5 Quick Charge
5 Grenadier
5 Fitness
5 Overload

These builds were harder to choose from. I give two builds because I don't know which would be better. The first one focuses on the Scorpio Turret and makes it an all-around decent skill to use. If you need to drop it for some extra ammo because Support Gunner is being slow, go for it; if you need to drop it because some extra DPS is needed or you want to kill some mobs that you skip then go for it. Stockpile is skipped because of Support Gunner. Supply Drop could be skipped as well because you might not need it that late in the run. If it turns out that you don't have ammo problems then I'd suggest Grenadier so you don't have to stop to buy grenades for grenade jumping. The second build is based on turning Roland into more of a tank character. The Scorpio is only dropped to add some more DPS, if it's needed.

Brick:

5 Rapid Reload
5 Revenge
5 Cast Iron
5 Master Blaster
5 Safeguard

This build is all about increasing Brick's damage to make him more of a threat. Since Brick can't use his ability it makes the Berserk skills useless. Going for Rapid Reload first gives you a smaller spread (Recoil reduction reduces spread, in case you didn't know!) and more flexibility with weapons. Cast Iron is so grenade jumping isn't as painful, Blaster Master for the fire rate increase, and Safeguard over Hardened because your shield will have higher capacity than your maximum health.

Brick turns into a bit less of a tank in this build, but he turns into a major threat.

I hope that helps a bit. Those builds I posted are just what I would use in a speed run setting with a cap level of 30. Some are easier than others to come up with. (I'm looking at you, Roland and Brick.)

TrUShade

2012-08-08 10:51:01 am

The TrUest of Shades

Actually with Lilith I am seeing more of something like this:

Lilith:

5 Slayer
5 Hit & Run
5 Blackout
5 High Velocity
5 Quicksilver/Spark

Just as, it gives me the cooldown for killing an enemy, and I will probably be doing that a lot. But at the same time, this isn't really set into stone, and stuff will happen.
Probably will update other classes later (thanks for the help again)

Arkhanno

2012-08-08 12:15:48 pm

Quicksilver. Always Quicksilver. Spark increases the tech pool by 2% per level and the tech pool regeneration by 5.5% per level. To put it simply: Spark is useless. Since I won't be able to explain this in a succinct fashion I'll just copy and paste the tech pool information from the Borderlands wiki.

"Every gun has a Tech Pool. This pool constantly recharges when it is not full. Every proc has a specific tech pool cost, with bigger procs consuming larger amounts from the tech pool. Once the pool is empty, the weapon cannot proc until this pool has recharged a sufficient amount, unless the weapon has a proc that costs 0 tech pool.

The size of tech pool depends on the overall quality of the weapon, which will give it a tech level, and the elemental multiplier, which is based on tech level. The size of the tech pool is equal to the tech level times 4. Lilith's Spark skill can provide a slight further bonus.

The speed at which this pool refills is 4 points per second for all weapons, but mods and some of Lilith's skills can affect this rate of regeneration. Weapons do not regenerate tech pool when not being held."

Weapons like the Hellfire, Volcano, Orion, etc. have a 0 tech pool cost, which is why they always proc.

I hope this explains why you should never choose Spark as a skill.

Quicksilver. Always Quicksilver. Spark increases the tech pool by 2% per level and the tech pool regeneration by 5.5% per level. To put it simply: Spark is useless. Since I won't be able to explain this in a succinct fashion I'll just copy and paste the tech pool information from the Borderlands wiki.

"Every gun has a Tech Pool. This pool constantly recharges when it is not full. Every proc has a specific tech pool cost, with bigger procs consuming larger amounts from the tech pool. Once the pool is empty, the weapon cannot proc until this pool has recharged a sufficient amount, unless the weapon has a proc that costs 0 tech pool.

The size of tech pool depends on the overall quality of the weapon, which will give it a tech level, and the elemental multiplier, which is based on tech level. The size of the tech pool is equal to the tech level times 4. Lilith's Spark skill can provide a slight further bonus.

The speed at which this pool refills is 4 points per second for all weapons, but mods and some of Lilith's skills can affect this rate of regeneration. Weapons do not regenerate tech pool when not being held."

Weapons like the Hellfire, Volcano, Orion, etc. have a 0 tech pool cost, which is why they always proc.

I hope this explains why you should never choose Spark as a skill.

TrUShade

2012-08-08 12:18:52 pm

The TrUest of Shades

yah, makes sense. but like at the beginning it could come in handle. But quicksilver would help with other weapons as well.

For Roland though, we are looking more as a Attacker rather then a supporter with his turret right now. So more damage with his weapon and turret, refire, etc.

Arkhanno

2012-08-08 02:37:24 pm

What about:

5 Sentry
5 Impact
5 Refire
5 Defense
5 Barrage

It seems a little late to get Barrage, but then again I don't know how you guys are going to handle leveling so I might be wrong there.

Youkai

2012-08-08 05:33:15 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

We will have to level to at least level 30 to kill Destroyer. Naturally that will be done ASAP since higher levels mean more damage but realistically it will probably be spread pretty evenly through the storyline.

TrUShade

2012-08-08 10:51:27 pm

The TrUest of Shades

Yah, like Youkai said, level 30 is what we want. So it should be spread overall normally

The only thing I see different in leveling is when people do different challenges and get exp. That is the only thing

oozaroo

2012-08-22 01:12:46 am

and also as i was testing it seems the killer receive 10% + exp from all the other so i guess if someone actually kill a lot he will eventually get a level faster or 2 depending wich quest who is doing

oozaroo

Edit history:

oozaroo: 2012-08-22 01:20:54 am

2012-08-22 01:14:16 am

oh and arkhanno for mordecai i did find a build and its for the close combat wich make him a beast i did test it its quite dangerous but you can deal some insane damage in the beginning and it require only lvl 20 to complete so i have 10 free level to put other stuff to upgrade crit for exemple.
The build goes as this:
- Deadly lvl 5
- Lethal strike lvl 5
- Riotous remedy lvl 5
at lvl 20 you get all that wich make you a pretty big melee guy who can kill anything 1 hit and once you kill someone you get healed fully. In the end you finish with :
30% more crit
50% more melee damage
500% more with lethal strike BUT you can also gain a weapon wich add 200% melee attack bonus so if we calculate a lil bit its like 250% by 500% so its 1250% damage and you can also crit wich is about double damage so you can deal up to 2500% damage.
I've tested it and yeah in the beginning like lvl 15 ( without healing ) you can do some 4k hit EASY. But yeah the build is kinda dangerous to use since you get hit easier with melee but i think it worth the risk enough

oh and arkhanno for mordecai i did find a build and its for the close combat wich make him a beast i did test it its quite dangerous but you can deal some insane damage in the beginning and it require only lvl 20 to complete so i have 10 free level to put other stuff to upgrade crit for exemple. 
The build goes as this:
- Deadly lvl 5
- Lethal strike lvl 5
- Riotous remedy lvl 5 
at lvl 20 you get all that wich make you a pretty big melee guy who can kill anything 1 hit and once you kill someone you get healed fully. In the end you finish with : 
30% more crit
50% more melee damage
500% more with lethal strike BUT you can also gain a weapon wich add 200% melee attack bonus so if we calculate a lil bit its like 250% by 500% so its 1250% damage and you can also crit wich is about double damage so you can deal up to 2500% damage.
I've tested it and yeah in the beginning like lvl 15 ( without healing ) you can do some 4k hit EASY. But yeah the build is kinda dangerous to use since you get hit easier with melee but i think it worth the risk enough

TrUShade

2012-08-22 01:17:24 am

The TrUest of Shades

Quote from oozaroo:

oh and arkhanno for mordecai i did find a build and its for the close combat wich make him a beast i did test it its quite dangerous but you can deal some insane damage in the beginning and it require only lvl 20 to complete so i have 10 free level to put other stuff to upgrade crit for exemple

what was the build again oozaroo? I kind of forget it

oozaroo

Edit history:

oozaroo: 2012-08-22 11:12:36 pm

oozaroo: 2012-08-22 01:23:18 am

2012-08-22 01:21:21 am

here trushade i just posted it :p

TrUShade

2012-08-22 01:23:20 am

The TrUest of Shades

Quote from oozaroo:

here trushade i just posted it :p

thank you

oozaroo

2012-08-22 01:24:52 am

oh and for the last 10 lvls i would probly add
Focus lvl 5
Killer lvl 5
So that would add an other 40% damage

TrUShade

2012-08-22 01:27:52 am

The TrUest of Shades

yah that could possibly work. Making Roland (Brass) be the one that kind of stays back in the later parts of the game. But we need to practice still

oozaroo

2012-08-22 11:11:49 pm

Btw for evryone still interested in the run with lot of help of element_breach ( a viewer of my stream ) discovered a glitch that i kinda practice with brassmaster to figure out evrything of it
The glitch is actually with the quest Ring of Death any lvl of the quest. It consist on blocking the door to close so you can get out while still killing skags in it. It's actually needed to be done since 4 player is a lot harder so we need some levels before continuing with the story. The glitch as some interesting stuff i've been testing on stream such as: make all skag disapear for the round, you can't enter and go out like you want but you can make some other glitch with the big alarm to make some skag still on the arena and it actually doesn't make then disapear, all disapeared skag COUNT toward the completion of the quest, and some other useless stuff. Ring of Death actually have an amount of number of skag to be killed each round. For any question about that feel free to ask me.
Also for those who are interested on how exp work with other players I,ve been doing some number testing and these are the result i've gotten wich can be used yet: the killer receive 10% more exp than anyone else, every more player added in game is 10% reduction for evryone so for exemple on single player i would get 20 exp so with 2 i'd get 18 with 3 i'd get 17 and with 4 i'd get 16 so as you guessed the 10% is rounded to the minimum.
There is also a formula i have improved a little wich is to calculate every exp NEEDED for each level. the formula known is 60*("current level"^2.8-1) ← that's only to calculate the total exp needed to level up and not only the requirement so with little math it's easy to pull a good formula wich is 60*("current level"^2.8-1)-60*("last level"^2.8-1) and that will give you the exact amount of exp needed to level up.
So far I am trying to work out a formula for ennemy exp because depending your level and the ennemy level there is a certain amount given i have some note ( not completed yet ) to know how many exp the X ennemy will give on the Y level. So far it seem that the formula used for the exp is probably much the same for every ennemy in the game just need to figure out a lil something ( help could be appreciated here ). In the beginning i was asked why it would have been useful. The reason is quite simple: we know we need to be Y level before a certain place and we also know how much exp quest give you soooo with that formula with different ennemy i could plan how many of certain ennemy we would need on the road so we would loose less time.
To go back on the mordecai build i post like 3 post ago, the danger of using it is lethal strike only activate 35% of the time and for the health regen activation you need a kill. You can be uber bad luck like when i tested it but i had a lame shield. I will do some more practice with that and give some update on that later
Exept everything i just said, the planning is still going on and there is some little change made but we won't post every little change until it's consistent because we change a lot so it would be really useless to post it everytime.

Btw for evryone still interested in the run with lot of help of element_breach ( a viewer of my stream ) discovered a glitch that i kinda practice with brassmaster to figure out evrything of it
The glitch is actually with the quest Ring of Death any lvl of the quest. It consist on blocking the door to close so you can get out while still killing skags in it. It's actually needed to be done since 4 player is a lot harder so we need some levels before continuing with the story. The glitch as some interesting stuff i've been testing on stream such as: make all skag disapear for the round, you can't enter and go out like you want but you can make some other glitch with the big alarm to make some skag still on the arena and it actually doesn't make then disapear, all disapeared skag COUNT toward the completion of the quest, and some other useless stuff. Ring of Death actually have an amount of number of skag to be killed each round. For any question about that feel free to ask me.
Also for those who are interested on how exp work with other players I,ve been doing some number testing and these are the result i've gotten wich can be used yet: the killer receive 10% more exp than anyone else, every more player added in game is 10% reduction for evryone so for exemple on single player i would get 20 exp so with 2 i'd get 18 with 3 i'd get 17 and with 4 i'd get 16 so as you guessed the 10% is rounded to the minimum. 
There is also a formula i have improved a little wich is to calculate every exp NEEDED for each level. the formula known is 60*("current level"^2.8-1) ← that's only to calculate the total exp needed to level up and not only the requirement so with little math it's easy to pull a good formula wich is 60*("current level"^2.8-1)-60*("last level"^2.8-1) and that will give you the exact amount of exp needed to level up. 
So far I am trying to work out a formula for ennemy exp because depending your level and the ennemy level there is a certain amount given i have some note ( not completed yet ) to know how many exp the X ennemy will give on the Y level. So far it seem that the formula used for the exp is probably much the same for every ennemy in the game just need to figure out a lil something ( help could be appreciated here ). In the beginning i was asked why it would have been useful. The reason is quite simple: we know we need to be Y level before a certain place and we also know how much exp quest give you soooo with that formula with different ennemy i could plan how many of certain ennemy we would need on the road so we would loose less time.
To go back on the mordecai build i post like 3 post ago, the danger of using it is lethal strike only activate 35% of the time and for the health regen activation you need a kill. You can be uber bad luck like when i tested it but i had a lame shield. I will do some more practice with that and give some update on that later
Exept everything i just said, the planning is still going on and there is some little change made but we won't post every little change until it's consistent because we change a lot so it would be really useless to post it everytime.

Arkhanno

2012-08-24 04:57:56 pm

You guys should keep in mind that you can change your build at any time through a New-U station. It just costs a little bit of money. If a boss requires a more ranged approach then you could switch it up to deal more damage with guns.

oozaroo

2012-08-24 07:35:18 pm

yeah arkhanno i did tought about that but i cant think of a boss i would need to change class for mordecai ( i dont really play others tho ). I did try mordecai on couple boss and its pretty good if i manage to be a little lucky since a lethal strike is only 35% chance to hit

velocikiller

2012-08-25 11:54:46 am

Alright, I'm gonna join the cause, considering I'm the guy that told Oozaroo about the melee build. I have Borderlands on PS3, but sadly, I cannot play that even if I wanted to. So until I can, I'll just be around to help with planning and such.

oozaroo

2012-08-25 11:55:54 am

Yay that's cool velocikiller you should buy borderlands 2 for 360 tho :p

velocikiller

2012-08-25 12:13:47 pm

HA, 360. You guys know how to make me laugh! After caring for a 360 as though it was my child, and having it die in my hands, I will never buy one again. That and the fact that I have more use for 10 bucks a month than a subscription to play the video games I own. Basically, with Gold membership, you buy DLC for multiplayer.

Youkai

2012-08-25 12:18:48 pm

Don't know what to speedrun :(

Quote from velocikiller:

That and the fact that I have more use for 10 bucks a month than a subscription to play the video games I own. Basically, with Gold membership, you buy DLC for multiplayer.

On one hand I kind of agree with you but on the other all that bandwidth costs money. Someone has to pay for it. I don't mind paying a minimal fee for a service like that which is typically very solid.