Biohazard (Resident Evil) - December 13th, 2008

mikwuyma

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2021-02-22 02:27:36 am

2008-12-13 05:07:32 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/ResidentEvil.html

Carcinogen's 100% SS run as Jill

Verifier Responses

Quote:

I took a little longer to reply then I should have because I forgot about it.

Anyway the run looks good. No sign of cheating and audio/visual stuff is fine. The time is really fast and the route and strategies are really good and efficient. I didn't notice any mistakes except for maybe accidentally getting attacked by a zombie a couple times, but most of that looked purposeful. The best ending was achieved and I give this run two thumbs up.

This next response was really long, I'm just copy pasting the most relevant parts.

Quote:

Verifier: watching it again, im might reject it over one thing...
Verifier: im almost in pissed off at it because the runner played this one part so safe and slooooooooowly he almost lost a whole minute
Verifier: to me, that's just unacceptable. i talked to him a bit about it but he wouldn't let it go, not that i was very persuasive
that is fucking hella slow, no one in their right mind should even think of that method for a speed run
Verifier: it's tragic, because the run so far was very very good
Verifier: minor mistakes, all of which i wasn't expecting, but still very very good
Verifier: but this one thing almost destroys it entirely
Verifier: who gives a fuck how much faster the whole run is than dragonarch's, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?
Verifier: i reject the run. that snake dodge just killed it, despite the run being very very good with an awesome route and plan
Verifier: he's definitely got big enough balls, they just shrink when the snake shows up
Verifier: i think he practice more and try again. save another minute
Verifier: i think he should practice more and try again. save another minute
Verifier: and get 1:21:40 atleast
Verifier: that's only asking for a faster snake dodge and fixing any number of mistakes sprinkled throughout the run

Quote:

Title = Biohazard Director's Cut
Version = JAP
Region = NTSC
System = PSX

Mode = original

File = rejill-v.avi
Video Time (with SDA Logo) = 01:28:17
Gameplay Time (Game Timer) = 01:22:40
Cheating = No
Quality Gameplay = good

Video and Audio Quality = good
This run was recorded on a VHS tape and was captured with a DVD Recorder.
Import Boot Disc = Yes

Category = SS run with 'Jill' and the good Ending , 100%
Saves = No

Notes:

22 min. - small mistake with the snake
00:47:25 - small mistake
01:00:03 - small mistake
01:17:00 - small mistake

The gameplay has small mistakes, but this is a SS run and I accept this run.

Quote:

Verifier: hey mike, i watched the resident evil 100% run. The run itself is fairly decent and it is an improvement over the current video. Very few major mistakes overall and some little occasional mistakes. The video quality seems to be a little low because he recorded using a VCR and at some points the video seems a little fuzzy because of that. The only other issue is that he is playing using the Japanese "Biohazard" version; whether there are version differences is unknown to me though. Other than that, I approve of it.
me: version differences are you can take more damage
me: some enemies take less hits
Verifier: he did seem to kill things off fairly easily
Verifier: will that count as a separate category?
me: yes

Decision: Accept

Reason: It's a fast run with few mistakes, and most of the verifiers enjoyed it, though I do agree with the verifier who rejected the run in principle.

Thread title:

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/ResidentEvil.html

Carcinogen's 100% SS run as Jill

[b]Verifier Responses[/b]

[quote]I took a little longer to reply then I should have because I forgot about it.

Anyway the run looks good.  No sign of cheating and audio/visual stuff is fine.  The time is really fast and the route and strategies are really good and efficient.  I didn't notice any mistakes except for maybe accidentally getting attacked by a zombie a couple times, but most of that looked purposeful.  The best ending was achieved and I give this run two thumbs up.[/quote]

This next response was really long, I'm just copy pasting the most relevant parts.

[quote]Verifier: watching it again, im might reject it over one thing...
Verifier: im almost in pissed off at it because the runner played this one part so safe and slooooooooowly he almost lost a whole minute
Verifier: to me, that's just unacceptable. i talked to him a bit about it but he wouldn't let it go, not that i was very persuasive
that is fucking hella slow, no one in their right mind should even think of that method for a speed run
Verifier: it's tragic, because the run so far was very very good
Verifier: minor mistakes, all of which i wasn't expecting, but still very very good
Verifier: but this one thing almost destroys it entirely
Verifier: who gives a fuck how much faster the whole run is than dragonarch's, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?
Verifier: i reject the run. that snake dodge just killed it, despite the run being very very good with an awesome route and plan
Verifier: he's definitely got big enough balls, they just shrink when the snake shows up
Verifier: i think he practice more and try again. save another minute
Verifier: i think he should practice more and try again. save another minute
Verifier: and get 1:21:40 atleast
Verifier: that's only asking for a faster snake dodge and fixing any number of mistakes sprinkled throughout the run[/quote]

[quote]Title = Biohazard Director's Cut
Version = JAP
Region = NTSC
System = PSX

Mode = original

File = rejill-v.avi
Video Time (with SDA Logo) = 01:28:17
Gameplay Time (Game Timer) = 01:22:40
Cheating = No
Quality Gameplay = good

Video and Audio Quality = good
This run was recorded on a VHS tape and was captured with a DVD Recorder.
Import Boot Disc = Yes

Category = SS run with 'Jill' and the good Ending , 100%
Saves = No

Notes:

22 min. - small mistake with the snake
00:47:25 - small mistake
01:00:03 - small mistake
01:17:00 - small mistake

The gameplay has small mistakes, but this is a SS run and I accept this run.[/quote]

[quote]Verifier: hey mike, i watched the resident evil 100% run. The run itself is fairly decent and it is an improvement over the current video. Very few major mistakes overall and some little occasional mistakes. The video quality seems to be a little low because he recorded using a VCR and at some points the video seems a little fuzzy because of that. The only other issue is that he is playing using the Japanese "Biohazard" version; whether there are version differences is unknown to me though. Other than that, I approve of it.
me: version differences are you can take more damage
me: some enemies take less hits
Verifier: he did seem to kill things off fairly easily
Verifier: will that count as a separate category?
me: yes
[/quote]

[b]Decision[/b]: Accept

[b]Reason[/b]: It's a fast run with few mistakes, and most of the verifiers enjoyed it, though I do agree with the verifier who rejected the run in principle.

TheQuietMan

2008-12-13 05:27:05 pm

Complete. Global. Saturation.

Wow, what a good variety of comments and reporting styles. The second one was vicious.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2008-12-13 10:43:24 pm

2008-12-13 10:27:15 pm

I'm not at all upset with the guy who hated the snake dodge (despite the fact he misconstrued the category, I'm playing on Original mode), for the fact that I spent time to use a more consistent method. At the same time, I am not upset at my decision. The speedrun path has never worked for me but five times, ever; and every one of those successful attempts came from reloading a save file I had created to practice it. Half of that depends on whether Yawn lunges or not, and yes, essentially my balls crawled all the way up my ass for the sake of SANITY AND TIME OUT OF MY LIFE.

Also, FYI, I didn't waste "almost a whole minute" on the dodge. That whole room from closing the door to reaching it after grabbing the crest was 50 seconds according to the video timing.

Now watch the dodge in Trevor's RL run. 30 seconds.

sshplur

2008-12-14 04:17:30 am

That was me and I made a mistake when calculating your dodge, dividing the frames by 30 instead of 60. But that doesn't change my thoughts and it's worse comparing it to Trevor (I compared it to Duke and Zeno when I verified).

Trevor took 17 seconds to dodge and get out while you took 37. That's still 20 seconds slower and it was deliberate. That's horrible, by any standard, and this is RE1 we're talking about (what pissed me off even more was when you recommended this to the guy who was running RE:DS). To me you didn't gain a successful run, you lost 20 seconds. You also menu cancelled in the wrong places and didn't rapid fire at all, even after MT told you how to do it.

What I never liked about your speed running was your refusal to go all the way, keeping your standards deliberately below what you're capable of. When you're willing to lose 20 seconds over single dodge for a game that has been fine tuned in the last 4 years by guys like Zeno, Duke, Trevor and Luciano, something's definitely wrong and needs to be done.

And I'm not just talking about this run, I was really disappointed with your RE3 run, I expected much more. I was too late to tell Mike I wanted to reject it. You said yourself that the American version will always be 1 minute slower than the Japanese version, so what's it doing 4-5 minutes slower than the now beaten SS run at Shin's site? I didn't have the heart to tell you at the time because that was when both of our first runs got accepted.

Since your RE3 run you haven't improved as a runner and that's what infuriates me. You're a nice guy with thick skin, can hold your own against anyone, and everyone here likes you. I think that's why people listen to you but won't tell you to improve. As knowledgable as you are and as much as you can crituque, your standards seriously make me wonder why you even considered an RE4 SS.

I'm asking you to find your balls, try again, and knock off 25 seconds. Don't ever think standards as high as Zeno's are out of reach. They're not, to anyone, you just have to try. Plenty of guys here are proof of that.

That was me and I made a mistake when calculating your dodge, dividing the frames by 30 instead of 60. But that doesn't change my thoughts and it's worse comparing it to Trevor (I compared it to Duke and Zeno when I verified).

Trevor took 17 seconds to dodge and get out while you took 37. That's still 20 seconds slower and it was deliberate. That's horrible, by any standard, and this is RE1 we're talking about (what pissed me off even more was when you recommended this to the guy who was running RE:DS). To me you didn't gain a successful run, you lost 20 seconds. You also menu cancelled in the wrong places and didn't rapid fire at all, even after MT told you how to do it.

What I never liked about your speed running was your refusal to go all the way, keeping your standards deliberately below what you're capable of. When you're willing to lose 20 seconds over single dodge for a game that has been fine tuned in the last 4 years by guys like Zeno, Duke, Trevor and Luciano, something's definitely wrong and needs to be done.

And I'm not just talking about this run, I was really disappointed with your RE3 run, I expected much more. I was too late to tell Mike I wanted to reject it. You said yourself that the American version will always be 1 minute slower than the Japanese version, so what's it doing 4-5 minutes slower than the now beaten SS run at Shin's site? I didn't have the heart to tell you at the time because that was when both of our first runs got accepted.

Since your RE3 run you haven't improved as a runner and that's what infuriates me. You're a nice guy with thick skin, can hold your own against anyone, and everyone here likes you. I think that's why people listen to you but won't tell you to improve. As knowledgable as you are and as much as you can crituque, your standards seriously make me wonder why you even considered an RE4 SS.

I'm asking you to find your balls, try again, and knock off 25 seconds. Don't ever think standards as high as Zeno's are out of reach. They're not, to anyone, you just have to try. Plenty of guys here are proof of that.

xXIkuto

Edit history:

xXIkuto: 2008-12-14 05:31:05 am

2008-12-14 05:25:46 am

Quote from sshplur:

I'm asking you to find your balls, try again, and knock off 25 seconds. Don't ever think standards as high as Zeno's are out of reach. They're not, to anyone, you just have to try. Plenty of guys here are proof of that.

i know nothing when it comes to RE running, but i 100% agree with that statement. ssh is probably being "vicious" (he's not being vicious, he's saying what he thinks is the truth...) because he thinks carc has the ability to perform much better. as for me i have no real opinion about the run since i know nothing about the mechanics of running RE1, but i agree with that concept either way.

(the following is mainly @ quietman for calling ssh's verification "vicious." i think it's on topic when it comes to verifying however and that others should read it.)

being political and "nice nice" does not effectively get a point you want to make across all the time, and if someone's gonna get bashed every time they make a criticism (when they feel it's the truth), then you might as well expect runs to never improve. how can someone improve when the only thing they hear is "nice!!!!!!" and "good job" and "oh maybe you could do that, but still really good anyway!!!"

the more critical people are, the better. there's an essence of truth in being very critical (sometimes involves saying "that sucked"...*gasp*), and also helps check runners and their standards and motivation to improve. being political and "nice" is a failure to be a good verifier, friend, or someone who wants to help anyone improve. you have to say things people don't wanna hear sometimes, and if someone doesn't like it, too bad. next time i submit a run, i want mike or tiki or anyone who verifies to be critical as fuck, because if i want applause and "good job!!!" i could just post a half ass run on youtube.

[quote="sshplur"]
I'm asking you to find your balls, try again, and knock off 25 seconds. Don't ever think standards as high as Zeno's are out of reach. They're not, to anyone, you just have to try. Plenty of guys here are proof of that.
[/quote]

i know nothing when it comes to RE running, but i 100% agree with that statement.  ssh is probably being "vicious" (he's not being vicious, he's saying what he thinks is the truth...) because he thinks carc has the ability to perform much better.  as for me i have no real opinion about the run since i know nothing about the mechanics of running RE1, but i agree with that concept either way.

(the following is mainly @ quietman for calling ssh's verification "vicious." i think it's on topic when it comes to verifying however and that others should read it.)

being political and "nice nice" does not effectively get a point you want to make across all the time, and if someone's gonna get bashed every time they make a criticism (when they feel it's the truth), then you might as well expect runs to never improve.  how can someone improve when the only thing they hear is "nice!!!!!!" and "good job" and "oh maybe you could do that, but still really good anyway!!!"

the more critical people are, the better.  there's an essence of truth in being very critical (sometimes involves saying "that sucked"...*gasp*), and also helps check runners and their standards and motivation to improve.  being political and "nice" is a failure to be a good verifier, friend, or someone who wants to help anyone improve.  you have to say things people don't wanna hear sometimes, and if someone doesn't like it, too bad.  next time i submit a run, i want mike or tiki or anyone who verifies to be critical as fuck, because if i want applause and "good job!!!" i could just post a half ass run on youtube.

Normand Nubcake

Edit history:

Normand Nubcake: 2008-12-14 07:10:46 am

2008-12-14 06:49:54 am

I think everyone heard that ''you gotta learn to take criticism or you'll never get anywhere in life'' argument at least 50 times. While I agree with you, the problem with this is generally how the criticism is constructed, not the criticism itself (the meaning that is attached to it)

DRybes

2008-12-14 07:47:15 am

O Zlda?

Quote from Normand Nubcake:

I think everyone heard that ''you gotta learn to take criticism or you'll never get anywhere in life'' argument at least 50 times. While I agree with you, the problem with this is generally how the criticism is constructed, not the criticism itself (the meaning that is attached to it)

Everyone's heard this post 50 times too.

Bottom line is that we accept improvements, and that sshplur knows that Carc can do better, and honestly what he said was a bit of a masterpiece. If someone I worked with or competed with in the past told me that, I'd take it to heart and make it show in the future even if I felt like arguing about it in context or never intended to redo the run in question.

Carcinogen

2008-12-14 01:09:14 pm

Tom, you take speedrunning in general a bit too seriously. You're right, I haven't improved much as a runner; I could care less about that, since it's an art that really isn't widely understood or appreciated, especially among my peers. Video Games and speedrunning are a hobby, and if I'm satisfied with my own results at the time, that's all that matters to me, but at the same time it doesn't mean I don't accept criticism should I want to try again later. By that merit, I'm actually kind-of sad you kept your mouth shut until now.

I agree, my RE3 run was crap. I could have aimed closer to my original goal, but I decided to submit it at the time I did because I was frustrated as hell, outside of having to play hospice for my cat several days prior. 50,000 things could go wrong in RE3, and I had gotten burnt out, simple as that. I knew it could be improved later, so I had submitted it. I even stated in the comments that anyone was welcome to improve it if they could stand doing so. In fact, I want to improve it, after seeing ZENO's run. Also I'm dead sure there's more than a minute's difference between the Japanese and US versions of RE3.

Tom, you take speedrunning in general a bit too seriously. You're right, I haven't improved much as a runner; I could care less about that, since it's an art that really isn't widely understood or appreciated, especially among my peers. Video Games and speedrunning are a hobby, and if I'm satisfied with my own results at the time, that's all that matters to me, but at the same time it doesn't mean I don't accept criticism should I want to try again later. By that merit, I'm actually kind-of sad you kept your mouth shut until now.

I agree, my RE3 run was crap. I could have aimed closer to my original goal, but I decided to submit it at the time I did because I was frustrated as hell, outside of having to play hospice for my cat several days prior. 50,000 things could go wrong in RE3, and I had gotten burnt out, simple as that. I knew it could be improved later, so I had submitted it. I even stated in the comments that anyone was welcome to improve it if they could stand doing so. In fact, I want to improve it, after seeing ZENO's run. Also I'm dead sure there's more than a minute's difference between the Japanese and US versions of RE3.

TheQuietMan

2008-12-14 01:46:20 pm

Complete. Global. Saturation.

Quote from Carcinogen:

...my balls crawled all the way up my ass for the sake of SANITY AND TIME OUT OF MY LIFE.

Just a friendly reminder that these are up for grabs here in the bounty thread.

Carcinogen

2008-12-14 01:52:25 pm

Quote from The_Quiet_Man:

Quote from Carcinogen:

...my balls crawled all the way up my ass for the sake of SANITY AND TIME OUT OF MY LIFE.

Just a friendly reminder that these are up for grabs here in the bounty thread.

By then I'll be an old man. I hope you enjoy your prize.

ronrab

2008-12-14 03:29:15 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from DRybes:

If someone I worked with or competed with in the past told me that, I'd take it to heart and make it show in the future even if I felt like arguing about it in context or never intended to redo the run in question.

Oddly, if someone I worked with or competed against told ME that, I'd kick him in the balls. Then he could show me how awesome HE is at the game by putting his money where his mouth is, beating the current submission, and winning Carcinogen's balls in the bounty thread as replacements. Then everyone would be happy.

Trash talk is for jocks. Let's keep it with the steroid-fueled idiots in the locker room. It's bad enough they make millions while we make a hundred off a bounty offer, if we're lucky...

Carcinogen

2008-12-14 03:48:30 pm

Quote from ronrab:

Quote from DRybes:

If someone I worked with or competed with in the past told me that, I'd take it to heart and make it show in the future even if I felt like arguing about it in context or never intended to redo the run in question.

Oddly, if someone I worked with or competed against told ME that, I'd kick him in the balls. Then he could show me how awesome HE is at the game by putting his money where his mouth is, beating the current submission, and winning Carcinogen's balls in the bounty thread as replacements. Then everyone would be happy.

Trash talk is for jocks. Let's keep it with the steroid-fueled idiots in the locker room. It's bad enough they make millions while we make a hundred off a bounty offer, if we're lucky...

al;kdfjl;asdkfjl;a

WRONG VERSION OF RE1.

xXIkuto

2008-12-14 05:29:02 pm

Quote from ronrab:

Oddly, if someone I worked with or competed against told ME that, I'd kick him in the balls. Then he could show me how awesome HE is at the game by putting his money where his mouth is, beating the current submission, and winning Carcinogen's balls in the bounty thread as replacements. Then everyone would be happy.

that's not a bad point. people SHOULD be able to criticize without having to beat the run as well, but you do have a point that if they heavily criticize they should just go beat the run also. if ssh or someone did beat the run in that situation though, i think that they would deserve an apology from anyone who bashed them for a heavy criticism :-\.

i do disagree about the trash talk idea though. ssh wouldn't have mentioned that he thought the rest of the run was very good in that case. i mean there is no reason to kick someone in the balls if they told you "hey man i'm disappointed that you're not doing this one part the best way, that you know how to do. c'mon we've been over this and yet you're still not even going for it, wtf? the rest of your job is so good too but why the fuck won't you just go all the way and do that part the right way? i know you're capable of much better and it's pissing me off your settling for less. fuck."

it's just pure heart to heart honesty, and i guess in this case ssh is venting some frustration cause he knows carc well and they probably discussed it before. but still...kicking someone in the balls for that is like only wanting people to be nice even if it's a lie Angry

[quote="ronrab"]

Oddly, if someone I worked with or competed against told ME that, I'd kick him in the balls. Then he could show me how awesome HE is at the game by putting his money where his mouth is, beating the current submission, and winning Carcinogen's balls in the bounty thread as replacements. Then everyone would be happy.

[/quote]

that's not a bad point.  people SHOULD be able to criticize without having to beat the run as well, but you do have a point that if they heavily criticize they should just go beat the run also.  if ssh or someone did beat the run in that situation though, i think that they would deserve an apology from anyone who bashed them for a heavy criticism  :-\.

i do disagree about the trash talk idea though.  ssh wouldn't have mentioned that he thought the rest of the run was very good in that case.  i mean there is no reason to kick someone in the balls if they told you "hey man i'm disappointed that you're not doing this one part the best way, that you know how to do.  c'mon we've been over this and yet you're still not even going for it, wtf?  the rest of your job is so good too but why the fuck won't you just go all the way and do that part the right way?  i know you're capable of much better and it's pissing me off your settling for less.  fuck."

it's just pure heart to heart honesty, and i guess in this case ssh is venting some frustration cause he knows carc well and they probably discussed it before.  but still...kicking someone in the balls for that is like only wanting people to be nice even if it's a lie  >:(

Carcinogen

2008-12-14 06:18:45 pm

The only thing that nags me about sshplur's response is how he used words like 'pissed off' and 'infuriated' to describe how he felt about my method of running a game.

Also, would it kill people to quit mixing up which category is which? Original Mode = my run. Arrange Mode = Dragondarch's run. REmake = the game for which I'm going to have Ellen Page cut off my testicles and send them to the guy who beats Trevor's run.

ronrab

2008-12-15 02:01:56 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Accuracy is for wimps and losers! I saved 20 seconds by being inaccurate in which version I meant!

Besides, if I don't conflate the different versions together, I can't make the balls joke.

Ekudeht

2008-12-21 11:33:03 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'm currently 50 minutes into watching this run (mainly for the commentary).

Though I certainly understand what sshplur is saying it should be noted that, as far as I know, Carcinogen has never made any indications that he was ever attempting to set or break world records on games or even compete in that fashion. It is my understanding that his goals have always been to make fairly competent and entertaining runs for the mass audience; the complaints you're making would only be understood by a handful of resident evil speedrunners and the only way non speedrunners would be able to understand is by first watching one of the other available videos first. In that respect it is irrelevent to bash it as a speedrun, only as a potential world record for that particular category as it is still a good speedrun to 99.99% of the people who will watch it.

As for the snake dodge in particular: when I was practicing my knife run I was able to make the dodge, as seen in my video, work around 66.66% of the time. Now I haven't watched Trevor's run so I don't know if he does it the same way but my method was still much faster and has a fairly high success rate.

I'm currently 50 minutes into watching this run (mainly for the commentary).

Though I certainly understand what sshplur is saying it should be noted that, as far as I know, Carcinogen has never made any indications that he was ever attempting to set or break world records on games or even compete in that fashion.  It is my understanding that his goals have always been to make fairly competent and entertaining runs for the mass audience; the complaints you're making would only be understood by a handful of resident evil speedrunners and the only way non speedrunners would be able to understand is by first watching one of the other available videos first.  In that respect it is irrelevent to bash it as a speedrun, only as a potential world record for that particular category as it is still a good speedrun to 99.99% of the people who will watch it.

As for the snake dodge in particular: when I was practicing my knife run I was able to make the dodge, as seen in my video, work around 66.66% of the time.  Now I haven't watched Trevor's run so I don't know if he does it the same way but my method was still much faster and has a fairly high success rate.

xXIkuto

2008-12-21 11:51:59 pm

my only question to that is "if you're taking the time to do a run...why not go all the way with it? why stop at entertaining / competent? if you have the means and ability to make it the best...why not go for making it the best?"

i'm just asking in general, since it seems to plague a lot of people to take the time to do a run, and then go "well it's better than what the average person can do..but uh yea i have a life so it's not gonna be the or one of the best out there..i'm not some japanese guy."

world records and such should not be anyone's goal imo...a result of them ending up as such couldn't hurt though.

Carcinogen

2008-12-22 12:05:12 am

There is truth in your words, but I like Ekudeht's much less incriminating explanation better. It's just as simple as me not really caring and doing it for the sake of doing it; same as all leisurely activities.

Ekudeht

2008-12-22 12:12:45 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from xXIkuto:

my only question to that is "if you're taking the time to do a run...why not go all the way with it? why stop at entertaining / competent? if you have the means and ability to make it the best...why not go for making it the best?"

i'm just asking in general, since it seems to plague a lot of people to take the time to do a run, and then go "well it's better than what the average person can do..but uh yea i have a life so it's not gonna be the or one of the best out there..i'm not some japanese guy."

world records and such should not be anyone's goal imo...a result of them ending up as such couldn't hurt though.

I guess what it comes down to is the idea of is it really worth it to spend a few extra weeks/months tweaking a speedrun if most people won't even appreciate the extra time put into it? It's all about who are you playing for; yourself, your peers in the speedrunning community or the general public. Carcinogen plays for the general public whereas, for example, I started playing for myself and then for the small group of expert runners in the survival horror community. I can't speak for Trevor or Zeno but I'm guessing they haven't put much thought into entertaining the masses. I could be wrong but this is my current opinion.

[quote="xXIkuto"]
my only question to that is "if you're taking the time to do a run...why not go all the way with it?  why stop at entertaining / competent?  if you have the means and ability to make it the best...why not go for making it the best?"

i'm just asking in general, since it seems to plague a lot of people to take the time to do a run, and then go  "well it's better than what the average person can do..but uh yea i have a life so it's not gonna be the or one of the best out there..i'm not some japanese guy."

world records and such should not be anyone's goal imo...a result of them ending up as such couldn't hurt though.  
[/quote]

I guess what it comes down to is the idea of is it really worth it to spend a few extra weeks/months tweaking a speedrun if most people won't even appreciate the extra time put into it?  It's all about who are you playing for; yourself, your peers in the speedrunning community or the general public.  Carcinogen plays for the general public whereas, for example, I started playing for myself and then for the small group of expert runners in the survival horror community.  I can't speak for Trevor or Zeno but I'm guessing they haven't put much thought into entertaining the masses.  I could be wrong but this is my current opinion.

xXIkuto

2008-12-22 12:51:31 am

i completely agree. my pov is mostly biased because i'm in the sector of doing it for myself (mainly). you're definitely right though.

i do believe however, when it comes to judging a run, reasons the runner did it (like not trying to pull a world record run, etc) shouldn't provide any lenience.

Ekudeht

2008-12-22 12:57:44 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from xXIkuto:

i completely agree. my pov is mostly biased because i'm in the sector of doing it for myself (mainly). you're definitely right though.

i do believe however, when it comes to judging a run, reasons the runner did it (like not trying to pull a world record run, etc) shouldn't provide any lenience.

But if the verifiers fall in the "general audience" category then they're obviously not going to have a problem with it and will accept it with ease; it is not leniency they just don't know any better. Tongue

The only person to reject it was sshplur who is an expert RE speedrunner; he has a problem with it for legitimate reasons but verifiers are not limited to the world's best runners in a particular genre.

nate

2008-12-22 09:09:26 am

imo ... if it beats the video we have up then people should submit it, and it will be accepted. of course a better run is better. but if those strats cause failure to produce a video then they should be abandoned at least in the short term. having said that there's no sure way to tell whether this is the case, but after gaining some experience you can start to tell. carc could tell if you read his comments.

unfortunately metroid prime can no longer get faster runs without insane strats/massive time input. but it's one of like five games like that.

ronrab

2008-12-22 10:24:54 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I certainly don't have a problem with someone rejecting the run because it doesn't meet a very high set of standards. If the standards are too high, the other verifiers will accept it anyway; that's one reason we have multiple verifiers. It's self-correcting.

Knowing the run comments are now public, though, I don't see any real reason to be incredibly nasty about it. I don't see what insulting someone adds that a simple 'Rejected because X should be done better, here's why' doesn't say.

On the third hand (or whatever), there's something to be said for being deliberately insulting if you're trying to make the comment entertaining, as opposed to just informative. See: anything by Yahtzee online. I don't think we've reached the point where the verifier comments serve that purpose, although we're getting there. =)

MortyreR45

(user is banned)

MortyreR45

Edit history:

MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 10:10:53 pm

MortyreR45: 2013-05-27 09:08:05 am

2008-12-22 10:57:20 am

I AM FUCKED ANGRY

of all.. (I hope to do understand all of this posts)

It comes in the future a better run of the self version ?
I am sure to do reject this run. We have this run for the next future run.

This run was played with a import boot disc and it make for me a extra category. (necessary for my own know of this run video)

Enhasa

2008-12-22 09:42:49 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote from nate:

unfortunately metroid prime can no longer get faster runs without insane strats/massive time input. but it's one of like five games like that.

Hands down funniest thing I read on this site all year.