Banjo-Tooie on the Xbox 360 - Working to get a high Leaderboards rank on game time

2012-07-18 08:07:35 pm

............... .......

Banjo-Tooie on the Nintendo 64 was (is?) one of my favorite games of all time.

So when I downloaded Banjo-Tooie for the Xbox 360 I was pleasantly surprised to see that it had Leaderboards rankings for game completion time (or "GAME TOTAL".) This lead me to consider speedrunning the game and see how I stacked up.

HOWEVER! What is considered in the "GAME TOTAL" times is just collecting 900 Notes and 90 Jiggies (which obviously include all the Jinjos.) So, the requirements for completing the game is different than speedrunning the Nintendo 64 version. In other words, there is no need to go after Honeycombs** or Cheato Pages. Furthermore, there is no need to enter Cauldron Keep and do all of the end-game events (3rd Klungo fight, Tower of Tragedy, HAG1.) It wouldn't even be necessary to do the mini-game puzzle to open Cauldron Keep. Once the 90th Jiggy (or 900th Note) is collected, the game is DONE.

(**I'm thinking I might go after a few Honeycombs in the beginning of the game to add a few pieces of life bar. This is insurance against pain-in-the-ass bosses and hazardous environments where I may need to take additional damage. I'll need to practice at the bosses and get a better idea of my routes though. I'm still in the planning stages.)

In addition to this, there are also other differences from the Nintendo 64 version:

- There is no 100% text-skipping. Some text can be skipped. Other text can't. So unfortunately the Xbox 360 will make time accrue when characters talk.... Some of the time.

- Glitches in the Nintendo 64 version have been removed. In the run posted here, I believe mike89 used a glitch to get the Treble Clef out from under a boulder in Terrydactyland by jumping into it with the adult T-Rex. Can't do things like that in the Xbox 360 version.

- Using the "CHEATO" cheats disables saving and posting times to the Leaderboards. By "CHEATO" cheats I mean cheats that start with CHEATO when you input them in the Mayahem Temple Code Chamber. So using the SUPERBANJO cheat to make Banjo and Kazooie move faster is out. The game will have to be played with them moving at normal speed.

- First person aiming controls are VERY touchy and sensitive. This will be something I'll have to get used to I guess, but I don't remember the aiming cursor moving that fast when I press the control stick so lightly... Cry

This will make first-person boss fights and areas more of a challenge.

So... with all of this being considered, I believe a speedrun executed with the intention of being ranked high on the GAME TOTAL Leaderboards would be different than the current 100% Nintendo 64 version's speedrun. I've only completed the game once (with no plan) and I'm in the process of planning a new route.

If I get a good enough time and there is room for improvement after I complete my run (there should be), I'm thinking about purchasing a capture device and putting the run on YouTube for the hell of it. I used to have a capture device, but it stopped working and I'm trying to find an excuse to buy another one anyway. Tongue

At any rate, if anybody has Banjo-Tooie on the Xbox 360 and wants to run against me on the Leaderboards in some friendly competition, feel free too. Smiley

My Gamertag is SauerKraut85023 and I'm currently ranked #168 (from my first play-through) on the GAME TOTAL screen.

I'll post updates as I work on my route and run the game. (This might take me awhile though. I work about 55-60 hours each week, so I don't have a whole lot of time, but I'll work on this when I can.)

Thread title:

Banjo-Tooie on the Nintendo 64 was (is?) one of my favorite games of all time.

So when I downloaded Banjo-Tooie for the Xbox 360 I was pleasantly surprised to see that it had Leaderboards rankings for game completion time (or "GAME TOTAL".) This lead me to consider speedrunning the game and see how I stacked up.

HOWEVER! What is considered in the "GAME TOTAL" times is just collecting 900 Notes and 90 Jiggies (which obviously include all the Jinjos.) So, the requirements for completing the game is different than speedrunning the Nintendo 64 version. In other words, there is no need to go after Honeycombs** or Cheato Pages. Furthermore, there is no need to enter Cauldron Keep and do all of the end-game events (3rd Klungo fight, Tower of Tragedy, HAG1.) It wouldn't even be necessary to do the mini-game puzzle to open Cauldron Keep. Once the 90th Jiggy (or 900th Note) is collected, the game is DONE.

(**I'm thinking I might go after a few Honeycombs in the beginning of the game to add a few pieces of life bar. This is insurance against pain-in-the-ass bosses and hazardous environments where I may need to take additional damage. I'll need to practice at the bosses and get a better idea of my routes though. I'm still in the planning stages.)

In addition to this, there are also other differences from the Nintendo 64 version:

- There is no 100% text-skipping. Some text can be skipped. Other text can't. So unfortunately the Xbox 360 will make time accrue when characters talk.... Some of the time.

- Glitches in the Nintendo 64 version have been removed. In the run posted here, I believe mike89 used a glitch to get the Treble Clef out from under a boulder in Terrydactyland by jumping into it with the adult T-Rex. Can't do things like that in the Xbox 360 version.

- Using the "CHEATO" cheats disables saving and posting times to the Leaderboards. By "CHEATO" cheats I mean cheats that start with CHEATO when you input them in the Mayahem Temple Code Chamber. So using the SUPERBANJO cheat to make Banjo and Kazooie move faster is out. The game will have to be played with them moving at normal speed.

- First person aiming controls are VERY touchy and sensitive. This will be something I'll have to get used to I guess, but I don't remember the aiming cursor moving that fast when I press the control stick so lightly... :'( This will make first-person boss fights and areas more of a challenge.

So... with all of this being considered, I believe a speedrun executed with the intention of being ranked high on the GAME TOTAL Leaderboards would be different than the current 100% Nintendo 64 version's speedrun. I've only completed the game once (with no plan) and I'm in the process of planning a new route.

If I get a good enough time and there is room for improvement after I complete my run (there should be), I'm thinking about purchasing a capture device and putting the run on YouTube for the hell of it. I used to have a capture device, but it stopped working and I'm trying to find an excuse to buy another one anyway. :P

At any rate, if anybody has Banjo-Tooie on the Xbox 360 and wants to run against me on the Leaderboards in some friendly competition, feel free too. :) My Gamertag is SauerKraut85023 and I'm currently ranked #168 (from my first play-through) on the GAME TOTAL screen.

I'll post updates as I work on my route and run the game. (This might take me awhile though. I work about 55-60 hours each week, so I don't have a whole lot of time, but I'll work on this when I can.)

Pjii

2012-07-18 10:06:38 pm

Cool, someone else that's running the XBLA version. My 4:07:44 run was really bad, IMO; I actually plan to improve it in the future. Maybe some competition will motivate me to do so. I'm still working on my N64 run, so I won't work on the XBLA version for some time.

Quote from deutsch_joe:

(**I'm thinking I might go after a few Honeycombs in the beginning of the game to add a few pieces of life bar. This is insurance against pain-in-the-ass bosses and hazardous environments where I may need to take additional damage. I'll need to practice at the bosses and get a better idea of my routes though. I'm still in the planning stages.)

I would recommend against extending your health. Not only does it waste time to collect the Empty Honeycombs and then turn them in you'll also lose time on death warps that aren't instant deaths. Really, more health is a very bad thing in this game. There's honestly no good reason to extend your health at all.

Quote from deutsch_joe:

- Glitches in the Nintendo 64 version have been removed. In the run posted here, I believe mike89 used a glitch to get the Treble Clef out from under a boulder in Terrydactyland by jumping into it with the adult T-Rex. Can't do things like that in the Xbox 360 version.

SOME glitches don't work on the XBLA version. The one you mentioned (Treble Clef clip with T-Rex) does work.

Planning a route for this game is fun, IMO. Good luck.

Cool, someone else that's running the XBLA version. My 4:07:44 run was really bad, IMO; I actually plan to improve it in the future. Maybe some competition will motivate me to do so. I'm still working on my N64 run, so I won't work on the XBLA version for some time.

[quote="deutsch_joe"](**I'm thinking I might go after a few Honeycombs in the beginning of the game to add a few pieces of life bar. This is insurance against pain-in-the-ass bosses and hazardous environments where I may need to take additional damage. I'll need to practice at the bosses and get a better idea of my routes though. I'm still in the planning stages.)[/quote]

I would recommend against extending your health. Not only does it waste time to collect the Empty Honeycombs and then turn them in you'll also lose time on death warps that aren't instant deaths. Really, more health is a very bad thing in this game. There's honestly no good reason to extend your health at all.

[quote="deutsch_joe"]- Glitches in the Nintendo 64 version have been removed. In the run posted here, I believe mike89 used a glitch to get the Treble Clef out from under a boulder in Terrydactyland by jumping into it with the adult T-Rex. Can't do things like that in the Xbox 360 version.[/quote]

SOME glitches don't work on the XBLA version. The one you mentioned (Treble Clef clip with T-Rex) does work.

Planning a route for this game is fun, IMO. Good luck.

deutsch_joe

2012-07-22 12:46:44 am

............... .......

Wow, so you're the guy that got that time. I guess that makes sense; the names are almost the same. That's awesome that the person who's ranked #1 is a member of this community. Anyway, even if you say your run was really bad, I think it's still a very good time. Based on the times I've been getting so far in the first few segments (not considering my mistakes), it seems like I'll have my work cut out for me before I start approaching your time.

By the way, I appreciate your advice. I now don't bother getting the Honeycombs in my route plans. And when I plan my Terrydactyland run, I'll use the adult T-Rex to get the Treble Clef.

So I've started planning routes. I've finished planning the first three worlds and did the first play-throughs to test them for snags. I've also been logging my segment times and taking notes on what went wrong during each segment.

Segment 1: Mayahem Temple:

Jiggy and note count: 9 (got the White Jinjo), 100
Time after quitting: 0:25:35
What could have went better: I intend to collect the Jiggy on top of Targitzan's Temple as I fly toward the door that leads to Unga Bunga's Cave. I had trouble flying at the right height toward the Jiggy. I didn't want to accidentally land, but it always seemed like I was just a little too high to collect the Jiggy. I had to turn around and try again a few time.

I also accidentally woke up the Unga Bunga guarding the treasure, but only once. I used the fire to burn / flap across the second time.

Segment 2: Glitter Gulch Mine:

Total Jiggy and world note count: 16, 65/100 (Yep, saving some notes for later.)
Time after quitting: 0:53:50
What could have went better: The Power Hut Basement is one of the first places I go. Well, I had this idea that if I could pause the game and turn the brightness all the way up on my TV, I would be able to navigate the platforms and planks linking them together without shooting Fire Eggs. When I turn the brightness up on my TV, I can see the platforms, but not the planks linking them together. For the most part this is OK, but I still managed to die three times when I was almost to the Jiggy because I thought I was walking on the planks... I think I may end up shooting Fire Eggs now and then in my final plan. Or maybe both use Fire Eggs and turn the brightness up on my TV. Or maybe experiment with different combinations of the brightness/contrast/backlight/color settings on my TV. It'll have to be one of those details I worry about after I get a better idea of the whole game's route as a whole.

I also had a little bit of trouble getting out of the jail cells as the Detonator after I got the Jinjo in Gloomy Caverns. The camera angles weren't very helpful and the Detonator is very bouncy... He kept on bouncing beside the opening instead of going through it. >_>

Speaking of bouncy, I believe I did Ordnance Storage pretty well, but there were times when I tried to peck a bundle of TNTs, they bounced just out of the range of Kazooie's beak.

Segment 3: Witchyworld:

Total Jiggy and world note count: 25, 100/100
Time after quitting: 1:56:12
What could have went better: A VERY VERY crappy execution of this segment. On the parts where Banjo has to climb high on ladders and Grip Grab or walk on narrow ledges, I fell off. I usually don't have an issue with getting him to grab ledges. This happened once on the Dive of Death and once on the cable car ride.

I got ahead of myself and went into the Dodgem Dodger Dome without paying with the van first... I need to make sure I have my routes memorized better.

I also missed one of the kids in the Star Spinner, the girl bear that wants fries. My plan with the kids is to get burgers and fries early in the route so that when I encounter any of the kids in their randomized places, I can feed them (or hit the one) as soon as I find them. That way, when I return to Witchyworld later in the game, all I have to do is pick up the fat kid with Banjo since he's already been pacified with a burger. But what happened was that the girl happened to be toward the far right side inside the Star Spinner. When I enter the Star Spinner, I always head toward the center-left with either Mumbo or Banjo/Kazooie since the Mumbo Pad / lower platform are in that direction... Since I didn't see her, I had to take the time to LOOK for her in places where I didn't find the other two. Angry

And finally, what was probably the most frustrating thing... I was killed by Mr. Patch when he had ONE hit left. Mr. Patch, IMO, is one of the more annoying bosses. Not only are his weak points all over his body, he constantly waggles back and forth and turns around so his weak points can be difficult to hit. At least he's stunned for a little bit when he does get hit. The hit box detection is also very random. It seems like sometimes I can hit a weak point dead on and the game won't register a hit... sometimes. But sometimes a Grenade Egg will hit a different part of Mr. Patch's body and the game will register a hit on a nearby weak point... as if the Grenade Egg's explosion just nicks the tip of weak point. I've noticed this is more prone to happen if Mr. Patch moves his body in a way that moves the weak point toward the explosion. I practiced fighting Mr. Patch a lot in Replay mode before I ran the segment. I couldn't get a consistent time because of how he moves and the randomness of the hitbox detection. Sometimes I could defeat Mr. Patch in under two minutes and other times it would take me well over three minutes with all times in between. Ironically, my fastest time was the FIRST time I practiced fighting him in Replay mode.

I just hope Lord Woo Fak Fak is better than this. All other bosses I am OK with.

So yeah, as I said, I have my work cut out for me. I don't believe I have too big of flaws in my route so far... I just need to make sure everything goes OK as I'm playing through. And you're right, planning a route for this game is pretty fun. The inter-world "connectivity" of this game definitely makes route planning interesting. I already have an idea for an inter-world route that will let me burn through getting Jiggies and Jinjos in a hurry once I have been to every world and have every move from Jamjars. I can't wait to try it once I have visited every world at least once.

Wow, so you're the guy that got that time. I guess that makes sense; the names are almost the same. That's awesome that the person who's ranked #1 is a member of this community. Anyway, even if you say your run was really bad, I think it's still a very good time. Based on the times I've been getting so far in the first few segments (not considering my mistakes), it seems like I'll have my work cut out for me before I start approaching your time.

By the way, I appreciate your advice. I now don't bother getting the Honeycombs in my route plans. And when I plan my Terrydactyland run, I'll use the adult T-Rex to get the Treble Clef.

So I've started planning routes. I've finished planning the first three worlds and did the first play-throughs to test them for snags. I've also been logging my segment times and taking notes on what went wrong during each segment.

[b]Segment 1: Mayahem Temple:[/b]

[u]Jiggy and note count:[/u] 9 (got the White Jinjo), 100
[u]Time after quitting:[/u] 0:25:35
[u]What could have went better:[/u] I intend to collect the Jiggy on top of Targitzan's Temple as I fly toward the door that leads to Unga Bunga's Cave. I had trouble flying at the right height toward the Jiggy. I didn't want to accidentally land, but it always seemed like I was just a little too high to collect the Jiggy. I had to turn around and try again a few time.

I also accidentally woke up the Unga Bunga guarding the treasure, but only once. I used the fire to burn / flap across the second time.

[b]Segment 2: Glitter Gulch Mine:[/b]

[u]Total Jiggy and world note count:[/u] 16, 65/100 (Yep, saving some notes for later.)
[u]Time after quitting:[/u] 0:53:50
[u]What could have went better:[/u] The Power Hut Basement is one of the first places I go. Well, I had this idea that if I could pause the game and turn the brightness all the way up on my TV, I would be able to navigate the platforms and planks linking them together without shooting Fire Eggs. When I turn the brightness up on my TV, I can see the platforms, but not the planks linking them together. For the most part this is OK, but I still managed to die three times when I was almost to the Jiggy because I thought I was walking on the planks... I think I may end up shooting Fire Eggs now and then in my final plan. Or maybe both use Fire Eggs and turn the brightness up on my TV. Or maybe experiment with different combinations of the brightness/contrast/backlight/color settings on my TV. It'll have to be one of those details I worry about after I get a better idea of the whole game's route as a whole.

I also had a little bit of trouble getting out of the jail cells as the Detonator after I got the Jinjo in Gloomy Caverns. The camera angles weren't very helpful and the Detonator is very bouncy... He kept on bouncing beside the opening instead of going through it. >_>

Speaking of bouncy, I believe I did Ordnance Storage pretty well, but there were times when I tried to peck a bundle of TNTs, they bounced just out of the range of Kazooie's beak.

[b]Segment 3: Witchyworld:[/b]

[u]Total Jiggy and world note count:[/u] 25, 100/100
[u]Time after quitting:[/u] 1:56:12
[u]What could have went better:[/u] A VERY VERY crappy execution of this segment. On the parts where Banjo has to climb high on ladders and Grip Grab or walk on narrow ledges, I fell off. I usually don't have an issue with getting him to grab ledges. This happened once on the Dive of Death and once on the cable car ride.

I got ahead of myself and went into the Dodgem Dodger Dome without paying with the van first... I need to make sure I have my routes memorized better.

I also missed one of the kids in the Star Spinner, the girl bear that wants fries. My plan with the kids is to get burgers and fries early in the route so that when I encounter any of the kids in their randomized places, I can feed them (or hit the one) as soon as I find them. That way, when I return to Witchyworld later in the game, all I have to do is pick up the fat kid with Banjo since he's already been pacified with a burger. But what happened was that the girl happened to be toward the far right side inside the Star Spinner. When I enter the Star Spinner, I always head toward the center-left with either Mumbo or Banjo/Kazooie since the Mumbo Pad / lower platform are in that direction... Since I didn't see her, I had to take the time to LOOK for her in places where I didn't find the other two. >:(

And finally, what was probably the most frustrating thing... I was killed by Mr. Patch when he had ONE hit left. Mr. Patch, IMO, is one of the more annoying bosses. Not only are his weak points all over his body, he constantly waggles back and forth and turns around so his weak points can be difficult to hit. At least he's stunned for a little bit when he does get hit. The hit box detection is also very random. It seems like sometimes I can hit a weak point dead on and the game won't register a hit... sometimes. But sometimes a Grenade Egg will hit a different part of Mr. Patch's body and the game will register a hit on a nearby weak point... as if the Grenade Egg's explosion just nicks the tip of weak point. I've noticed this is more prone to happen if Mr. Patch moves his body in a way that moves the weak point toward the explosion. I practiced fighting Mr. Patch a lot in Replay mode before I ran the segment. I couldn't get a consistent time because of how he moves and the randomness of the hitbox detection. Sometimes I could defeat Mr. Patch in under two minutes and other times it would take me well over three minutes with all times in between. Ironically, my fastest time was the FIRST time I practiced fighting him in Replay mode.

I just hope Lord Woo Fak Fak is better than this. All other bosses I am OK with.

So yeah, as I said, I have my work cut out for me. I don't believe I have too big of flaws in my route so far... I just need to make sure everything goes OK as I'm playing through. And you're right, planning a route for this game is pretty fun. The inter-world "connectivity" of this game definitely makes route planning interesting. I already have an idea for an inter-world route that will let me burn through getting Jiggies and Jinjos in a hurry once I have been to every world and have every move from Jamjars. I can't wait to try it once I have visited every world at least once.

deutsch_joe

Edit history:

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-05 01:15:31 pm

2012-08-03 09:07:47 pm

............... .......

So I've been working on this run even though I haven't posted recently. I decided that since I'm testing and practicing what is probably VERSION ONE of my route using ALL THREE FILES, posting detailed commentary and statistics of every single segment is probably pointless. Occasionally posting the highlights makes more sense, instead of every little screw-up as I'm testing/learning the routes.

At any rate, right now, I've ran through Terrydactyland and am currently creating a route for Grunty Industries. Terrydactyland was rather awkward to plan a route for. The warp pad placement in that world was kind of lopsided and the split-up pads weren't really located in convenient locations. I think I have the route down pretty well. The biggest issue is actually at the end of the route. When I jump from the split-up pads near the top of the inside of the mountain, I find it difficult to land on the top of the "pillar-island" in the center of the water as Dragorn does in his route. I usually end up falling hard on the base of the island, sometimes killing myself, since I only have five pieces of life. (On the bright side, I've never missed the island yet.) I find it difficult to judge where exactly to jump and how far. I sort of had the same problem jumping off the side of the mountain toward one of Terry's eggs on the edge of the level with Kazooie (TWO pieces of life), but I started to be able to do it consistently without killing Kazooie. Hopefully with enough practice I'm also able to land on top of the pillar in the mountain consistently.

Furthermore, I have a little bit a dirty confession to make. While I have been creating my own routes, I've also been looking at the current 100% Nintendo 64 run to see if there was something I missed in consideration of my route plan. (Like if there would be a snag, or if there would be something I missed to make the route better.) While there are some similarities between Dragorn's routes and mine, they are not 100% the same, except for maybe Mayahem Temple, just because of the simple level layout. And in fact, the route Dragorn takes in Terrydactyland in his run seems very bizarre to me. So my route is almost completely different, with some small similarities. (Such as hatching the last of Terry's eggs in the top of the mountain and then falling down to Chomposaurus for the last Jiggy in the run.) Although I found a nice little trick for the Rocknut Tribe caveman on the side of mountain (and the three notes next to him) with a Clockwork Kazooie Egg that Dragorn doesn't use. Tongue

In other news, I can completely wipe the floor with Lord Woo Fak Fak when Banjo & Kazooie are in the submarine form. I was worried about him but now I don't even see him as a threat. The unlimited missiles are very nice. It's too bad I can't fight Lord Woo Fak Fak in Boss Replays while in the submarine form.

All that aside, I did purchase a capture device. ( It can capture at 720p at a smooth 60fps from HDMI at 25Mbps. Cheesy

) It's very helpful as I've been using it to capture my segment attempts so I can analyze the routes in detail in ways I wouldn't be able to without a capture device. Some screenshots taken from my captures for the fun of it Tongue

:

Looks like I got bumped down from #168 to #171 with my old time.

The top 10 times, showing what I need to eventually beat.

My time on the the third file after finishing the fifth segment covering most of Terrydactyland. Keep in mind that this includes a lot of screw-ups in pretty much every segment as well as missing about half of Jolly Roger's Lagoon. Like Dragorn's run, I save a lot for later since Banjo & Kazooie are initially lacking a lot of moves needed to efficiently complete out the world. Additionally, I may not have a lot of Jiggies, but I am setting up the worlds so that I can burn through getting a lot of Jiggies in a hurry since everything will be set up and Banjo & Kazooie will have all of their moves when they return.

And...jump and hope I land on the pillar...

*SMACK!*

Ouch...

Anyway, back to planning for Grunty Industries!

So I've been working on this run even though I haven't posted recently. I decided that since I'm testing and practicing what is probably VERSION [u]ONE[/u] of my route using ALL THREE FILES, posting detailed commentary and statistics of every single segment is probably pointless. Occasionally posting the highlights makes more sense, instead of every little screw-up as I'm testing/learning the routes.

At any rate, right now, I've ran through Terrydactyland and am currently creating a route for Grunty Industries. Terrydactyland was rather awkward to plan a route for. The warp pad placement in that world was kind of lopsided and the split-up pads weren't really located in convenient locations. I think I have the route down pretty well. The biggest issue is actually at the end of the route. When I jump from the split-up pads near the top of the inside of the mountain, I find it difficult to land on the top of the "pillar-island" in the center of the water as Dragorn does in his route. I usually end up falling hard on the base of the island, sometimes killing myself, since I only have five pieces of life. (On the bright side, I've never missed the island yet.) I find it difficult to judge where exactly to jump and how far. I sort of had the same problem jumping off the side of the mountain toward one of Terry's eggs on the edge of the level with Kazooie (TWO pieces of life), but I started to be able to do it consistently without killing Kazooie. Hopefully with enough practice I'm also able to land on top of the pillar in the mountain consistently.

Furthermore, I have a little bit a dirty confession to make. While I have been creating my own routes, I've also been looking at the current 100% Nintendo 64 run to see if there was something I missed in consideration of my route plan. (Like if there would be a snag, or if there would be something I missed to make the route better.) While there are some similarities between Dragorn's routes and mine, they are not 100% the same, except for maybe Mayahem Temple, just because of the simple level layout. And in fact, the route Dragorn takes in Terrydactyland in his run seems very bizarre to me. So my route is almost completely different, with some small similarities. (Such as hatching the last of Terry's eggs in the top of the mountain and then falling down to Chomposaurus for the last Jiggy in the run.) Although I found a nice little trick for the Rocknut Tribe caveman on the side of mountain (and the three notes next to him) with a Clockwork Kazooie Egg that Dragorn doesn't use. :P

In other news, I can completely wipe the floor with Lord Woo Fak Fak when Banjo & Kazooie are in the submarine form. I was worried about him but now I don't even see him as a threat. The unlimited missiles are very nice. It's too bad I can't fight Lord Woo Fak Fak in Boss Replays while in the submarine form.

All that aside, I did purchase a capture device. ( It can capture at 720p at a smooth 60fps from HDMI at 25Mbps. :D ) It's very helpful as I've been using it to capture my segment attempts so I can analyze the routes in detail in ways I wouldn't be able to without a capture device. Some screenshots taken from my captures for the fun of it :P :

Looks like I got bumped down from #168 to #171 with my old time.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8Batv.jpg[/IMG]

The top 10 times, showing what I need to eventually beat.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vEBAS.jpg[/IMG]

My time on the the third file after finishing the fifth segment covering most of Terrydactyland. Keep in mind that this includes a lot of screw-ups in pretty much every segment as well as missing about half of Jolly Roger's Lagoon. Like Dragorn's run, I save a lot for later since Banjo & Kazooie are initially lacking a lot of moves needed to efficiently complete out the world. Additionally, I may not have a lot of Jiggies, but I am setting up the worlds so that I can burn through getting a lot of Jiggies in a hurry since everything will be set up and Banjo & Kazooie will have all of their moves when they return.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PoHfu.jpg[/IMG]

And...jump and hope I land on the pillar...

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/L1hRV.jpg[/IMG]

*SMACK!*

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PzvT5.jpg[/IMG]

Ouch...

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4aJWG.jpg[/IMG]

Anyway, back to planning for Grunty Industries!

mike89

2012-08-03 09:44:09 pm

SEGA Junkie

Wait, did you just call me the 100% runner? ...I'll take it, I guess?

The only association I had with that run was to write out a very old and very outdated route back in like, 2005. I came in at the amazing time of 8 and a half hours Tongue

Pjii

2012-08-03 10:57:09 pm

Dragorn did the 100% run currently on SDA. I've completed a 100% run as well (4:16:34) but am in the process of improving it.

Anyway, the easiest way to make that jump in TDL is to jump in Talon Trot (hold it), zoom the camera all the way out (so you can see where to aim yourself), then Feather Flap after Banjo does his falling animation. A single Feather Flap will do, it never misses for me. The jump is actually really easy once the camera is zoomed out.

deutsch_joe

Edit history:

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-05 05:55:22 pm

2012-08-05 02:08:36 pm

............... .......

Quote from mike89:

Wait, did you just call me the 100% runner? ...I'll take it, I guess?

The only association I had with that run was to write out a very old and very outdated route back in like, 2005. I came in at the amazing time of 8 and a half hours Tongue

Quote from Pjii:

Dragorn did the 100% run currently on SDA.

Ummm... Yeah, post edited. I don't know why I was thinking mike89 did the run. My apologies to Dragorn!

Quote from Pjii:

I've completed a 100% run as well (4:16:34) but am in the process of improving it.

Nice! When you say "improving it", do you mean you're tweaking your route or are you trying to get more practiced at what the route requires? (E.g. Crazy jumps that result in near deaths, etc?)

Speaking of that...

Quote from Pjii:

Anyway, the easiest way to make that jump in TDL is to jump in Talon Trot (hold it), zoom the camera all the way out (so you can see where to aim yourself), then Feather Flap after Banjo does his falling animation. A single Feather Flap will do, it never misses for me. The jump is actually really easy once the camera is zoomed out.

Hmm, so in other words, Banjo & Kazooie basically need to jump out as far as possible, provided they are jumping in the right direction to begin with. I guess come to think of it, I usually end up falling just short of the pillar... I'll have to give it a try next time I run my Terrydactyland segment. Thanks for the advice!

This actually brings up a point I've been meaning to mention. The camera in this game frustrates me sometimes. It seems like it takes forever to get behind Banjo & Kazooie (or whichever one of them) and can be quite frustrating when I warp and I need to run somewhere between 4:00 and 8:00 when the camera is pointed at 12:00. I usually start running anyway while the camera swings behind, even though I temporarily can't see if there is anything ahead of me. The camera also tends to get caught behind things. It does this a lot underneath the top floor of Mumbo's Skull. Here's a time it happened in my Grunty Industries segment when I went outside through the door in the back of the building. (The one that's only accessible through Floor 2, even though you have to temporarily go down to a room in Floor 1 to get to it.)

Other than that, as far as the run goes, I just need to finish planning Hailfire Peaks and then plan for Cloud Cuckooland. I have a pretty good idea of the routes I will take as far as tying up loose ends in the worlds once I am done with Cloud Cuckooland. Other than optimizing boss fights, there is also getting positioning right for firing Clockwork Kazooie Eggs, as well as determining when to pick up more of those eggs along the route for replenishment. For the most part, I have the positioning and trajectory of fire down for most shots I need to take, but situations such as this are a disastrous for a speed run:

This was taken from a capture of an earlier attempt of the segment for the latter half of Jolly Roger's Lagoon.

And of course, there's also just preventing screw-ups in general, like falling off of places that shouldn't be fell off of:

At any rate, once my route is complete and is ran with the kinks hammered out, I'm very curious to see what my final time is. On to Hailfire Peaks...

EDIT: Welp... I had planned on doing a death warp to the world entrance of Hailfire Peaks as part of my run... Until I actually tested this out and ended up inside the Kickball Stadium. If only I didn't have to temporarily step inside Mayahem Temple... I'll have to think of something else...

[quote="mike89"]Wait, did you just call me the 100% runner? ...I'll take it, I guess?

The only association I had with that run was to write out a very old and very outdated route back in like, 2005. I came in at the amazing time of 8 and a half hours :P[/quote]
[quote="Pjii"]Dragorn did the 100% run currently on SDA.[/quote]

Ummm... Yeah, post edited. I don't know why I was thinking mike89 did the run. My apologies to Dragorn!

[quote="Pjii"]I've completed a 100% run as well (4:16:34) but am in the process of improving it.[/quote]

Nice! When you say "improving it", do you mean you're tweaking your route or are you trying to get more practiced at what the route requires? (E.g. Crazy jumps that result in near deaths, etc?)

Speaking of that...

[quote="Pjii"]Anyway, the easiest way to make that jump in TDL is to jump in Talon Trot (hold it), zoom the camera all the way out (so you can see where to aim yourself), then Feather Flap after Banjo does his falling animation. A single Feather Flap will do, it never misses for me. The jump is actually really easy once the camera is zoomed out.[/quote]

Hmm, so in other words, Banjo & Kazooie basically need to jump out as far as possible, provided they are jumping in the right direction to begin with. I guess come to think of it, I usually end up falling just short of the pillar... I'll have to give it a try next time I run my Terrydactyland segment. Thanks for the advice!

This actually brings up a point I've been meaning to mention. The camera in this game frustrates me sometimes. It seems like it takes forever to get behind Banjo & Kazooie (or whichever one of them) and can be quite frustrating when I warp and I need to run somewhere between 4:00 and 8:00 when the camera is pointed at 12:00. I usually start running anyway while the camera swings behind, even though I temporarily can't see if there is anything ahead of me. The camera also tends to get caught behind things. It does this a lot underneath the top floor of Mumbo's Skull. Here's a time it happened in my Grunty Industries segment when I went outside through the door in the back of the building. (The one that's only accessible through Floor 2, even though you have to temporarily go down to a room in Floor 1 to get to it.)

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/sBETu.jpg[/IMG]

Other than that, as far as the run goes, I just need to finish planning Hailfire Peaks and then plan for Cloud Cuckooland. I have a pretty good idea of the routes I will take as far as tying up loose ends in the worlds once I am done with Cloud Cuckooland. Other than optimizing boss fights, there is also getting positioning right for firing Clockwork Kazooie Eggs, as well as determining when to pick up more of those eggs along the route for replenishment. For the most part, I have the positioning and trajectory of fire down for most shots I need to take, but situations such as this are a disastrous for a speed run:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/U00Jn.jpg[/IMG]

This was taken from a capture of an earlier attempt of the segment for the latter half of Jolly Roger's Lagoon.

And of course, there's also just preventing screw-ups in general, like falling off of places that shouldn't be fell off of:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xJfxw.jpg[/IMG]

At any rate, once my route is complete and is ran with the kinks hammered out, I'm very curious to see what my final time is. On to Hailfire Peaks...

EDIT: Welp... I had planned on doing a death warp to the world entrance of Hailfire Peaks as part of my run... Until I actually tested this out and ended up inside the Kickball Stadium. If only I didn't have to temporarily step inside Mayahem Temple... I'll have to think of something else...

Softman25

2012-08-06 12:48:42 am

No offense mate, (I'm loving this thread) but for crying out loud - please resize those images if you can! Tongue

Pjii

2012-08-06 09:16:37 pm

Quote from deutsch_joe:

Nice! When you say "improving it", do you mean you're tweaking your route or are you trying to get more practiced at what the route requires? (E.g. Crazy jumps that result in near deaths, etc?)

Improved route, mostly. The run I've already done was just for practice.

---

Using all of your camera control options is pretty important. There are places in the game where simply holding the R/L bumper to keep it locked will prevent any problems. The camera isn't perfect, but you do have the tools needed to keep it in line.

Clockwork shots get easier and easier, don't stress if you find yourself missing shots; it'll come with time. Finding setups for shots helps, obviously. If you didn't already know, talking to Jamjars at the silos where you learned egg moves will completely restock your eggs. For example, speaking to him at the silo outside of TDL will restock all of your CWK eggs. This can be useful because egg nests only give you one CWK egg at a time.

You mentioned optimizing boss fights, I strongly recommend watching MegaDestructor9's boss ILs if you haven't yet.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?BanjoTooie_BossReplay

[quote="deutsch_joe"]Nice! When you say "improving it", do you mean you're tweaking your route or are you trying to get more practiced at what the route requires? (E.g. Crazy jumps that result in near deaths, etc?)[/quote]
 Improved route, mostly. The run I've already done was just for practice.

---

Using all of your camera control options is pretty important. There are places in the game where simply holding the R/L bumper to keep it locked will prevent any problems. The camera isn't perfect, but you do have the tools needed to keep it in line.

Clockwork shots get easier and easier, don't stress if you find yourself missing shots; it'll come with time. Finding setups for shots helps, obviously. If you didn't already know, talking to Jamjars at the silos where you learned egg moves will completely restock your eggs. For example, speaking to him at the silo outside of TDL will restock all of your CWK eggs. This can be useful because egg nests only give you one CWK egg at a time.

You mentioned optimizing boss fights, I strongly recommend watching MegaDestructor9's boss ILs if you haven't yet.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?BanjoTooie_BossReplay

deutsch_joe

2012-08-08 05:29:52 pm

............... .......

Quote from Softman25:

No offense mate, (I'm loving this thread) but for crying out loud - please resize those images if you can! Tongue

Sorry man, those images are just screenshots from my captures - and my capture device captures in high definition (1280 x 720), at the resolution of the screenshots. I just save a .jpg of a video frame with Media Player Classic and upload it to Imgur, but Imgur doesn't offer any thumbnail option. >_>

Quote from Pjii:

Improved route, mostly. The run I've already done was just for practice.

Nice! Do you think you'll break four hours?

Quote from Pjii:

Using all of your camera control options is pretty important. There are places in the game where simply holding the R/L bumper to keep it locked will prevent any problems. The camera isn't perfect, but you do have the tools needed to keep it in line.

I see. I'm getting better at dealing with the camera, part of which has to do with remembering which way the camera is pointing after I enter a different area or warp somewhere. I usually have an issue with the way the camera swings, and how it affects which way I'm holding on the control stick as I'm running (usually with Kazooie carrying Banjo or Kazooie alone.) But I will keep working at this issue so the problem is minimized when I am making more serious runs later on.

Quote from Pjii:

Clockwork shots get easier and easier, don't stress if you find yourself missing shots; it'll come with time. Finding setups for shots helps, obviously. If you didn't already know, talking to Jamjars at the silos where you learned egg moves will completely restock your eggs. For example, speaking to him at the silo outside of TDL will restock all of your CWK eggs. This can be useful because egg nests only give you one CWK egg at a time.

They are getting easier and easier, especially as I am getting a better idea of the trajectory and at what point is "too far" for the eggs and they explode instead of producing a mechanical Kazooie. Right now, I'm able to successfully use Clockwork Kazooie eggs to pick up items on my first try around 2/3 of the time.

Incidentally, I was reading random things last night and found this page: http://banjokazooie.wikia.com/wiki/Clockwork_Kazooie_Eggs

It brought up a few 'unintended' uses that I hadn't considered... I already have some changes I need to make in my route and I think I might incorporate a few of these 'unintended uses' if I haven't already... On a related note, it would be interesting to see that Grunty Industries sequence break in a Nintendo 64 run.

No, I actually hadn't tried talking to Jamjars at those locations. I knew he would replenish life, but I wasn't aware he would replenish eggs... That is VERY useful information indeed! Thanks! Cheesy

Quote from Pjii:

You mentioned optimizing boss fights, I strongly recommend watching MegaDestructor9's boss ILs if you haven't yet.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?BanjoTooie_BossReplay

Thank you for the link, these videos were very helpful. Since I haven't ran Cloud Cuckooland yet, I'll have to try the same method MegaDestructor uses on Mingy Jongo. I never would have imagined it would be possible to beat him in less than 10 seconds.

Anyway, as I mentioned, I have Cloud Cuckooland and tying up loose ends in some of the worlds to go through yet. I just planned and ran though finishing up Mayahem Temple and then partially finishing up Hailfire Peaks and Glitter Gulch Mine. (I have my reasons for chronologically doing this between Hailfire Peaks and Cloud Cuckooland.) I ran into a bit of a snag with the prison code in the Code Chamber in that the code was different depending on which file I played. In my run, I input the code as Banjo & Kazooie so I had to take time to go back and change into the Stony and then go get the code from the Stony near the Prison Compound entrance.

On file 1 the code was: Star, Sun, Star, Moon, Moon
File 2: Sun, Moon, Star, Moon, Sun
File 3: Moon, Star, Sun, Star, Star

In Dragorn's run, he uses the first file and the code was the same as it was in File 1 for me. This leads me to believe that the code is based upon which file is used, or is completely randomized and it was a coincidence that our File 1 codes were the same. Googling around only leads to people posting on forum boards basically saying there's no choice but to talk to the nearby Stony as a Stony. -____- So, I'll have to find out when I try my run for the second time with all three files.

Other than that, I do the Kickball games in the Mayahem Temple (and partial Hailfire Peaks/Glitter Gulch Mine) tying-up-loose ends segment. Most of the time I don't have an issue with the Kickball games. Every once in awhile in the Hailfire Peaks version, the CPUs randomly turn into dicks and tag team me when they are right next to my goal. Other times, more often than not, they spend most of their time fighting amongst themselves in the bottom portion of the field while I stand there, do nothing, and watch their scores skyrocket. And this wide difference in CPU behavior can be in the exact same level of game. (I noticed that ball spawning points are randomized as well.) Either way, I basically learned that I have to be more of a goalie than a field player, especially in the last game of the Hailfire Peaks version. I also learned that it is best if I kick the yellow balls into the wall and destroy them when they spawn close to my goal.

When I was playing the first file, I had an interesting outcome during one of the games; a near four-way tie. I don't even think I've had a three-way tie before...

Anyway, I hope I am able to finish my route planning and get the last of my segments ran tonight...

[quote="Softman25"]No offense mate, (I'm loving this thread) but for crying out loud - please resize those images if you can! :P[/quote]

Sorry man, those images are just screenshots from my captures - and my capture device captures in high definition (1280 x 720), at the resolution of the screenshots. I just save a .jpg of a video frame with Media Player Classic and upload it to Imgur, but Imgur doesn't offer any thumbnail option. >_>

[quote="Pjii"]Improved route, mostly. The run I've already done was just for practice.[/quote]

Nice! Do you think you'll break four hours?

[quote="Pjii"]Using all of your camera control options is pretty important. There are places in the game where simply holding the R/L bumper to keep it locked will prevent any problems. The camera isn't perfect, but you do have the tools needed to keep it in line.[/quote]

I see. I'm getting better at dealing with the camera, part of which has to do with remembering which way the camera is pointing after I enter a different area or warp somewhere. I usually have an issue with the way the camera swings, and how it affects which way I'm holding on the control stick as I'm running (usually with Kazooie carrying Banjo or Kazooie alone.) But I will keep working at this issue so the problem is minimized when I am making more serious runs later on.

[quote="Pjii"]Clockwork shots get easier and easier, don't stress if you find yourself missing shots; it'll come with time. Finding setups for shots helps, obviously. If you didn't already know, talking to Jamjars at the silos where you learned egg moves will completely restock your eggs. For example, speaking to him at the silo outside of TDL will restock all of your CWK eggs. This can be useful because egg nests only give you one CWK egg at a time.[/quote]

They are getting easier and easier, especially as I am getting a better idea of the trajectory and at what point is "too far" for the eggs and they explode instead of producing a mechanical Kazooie. Right now, I'm able to successfully use Clockwork Kazooie eggs to pick up items on my first try around 2/3 of the time.

Incidentally, I was reading random things last night and found this page: http://banjokazooie.wikia.com/wiki/Clockwork_Kazooie_Eggs

It brought up a few 'unintended' uses that I hadn't considered... I already have some changes I need to make in my route and I think I might incorporate a few of these 'unintended uses' if I haven't already... On a related note, it would be interesting to see that Grunty Industries sequence break in a Nintendo 64 run.

No, I actually hadn't tried talking to Jamjars at those locations. I knew he would replenish life, but I wasn't aware he would replenish eggs... That is VERY useful information indeed! Thanks! :D

[quote="Pjii"]You mentioned optimizing boss fights, I strongly recommend watching MegaDestructor9's boss ILs if you haven't yet.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/demo.pl?BanjoTooie_BossReplay[/quote]

Thank you for the link, these videos were very helpful. Since I haven't ran Cloud Cuckooland yet, I'll have to try the same method MegaDestructor uses on Mingy Jongo. I never would have imagined it would be possible to beat him in less than 10 seconds.

Anyway, as I mentioned, I have Cloud Cuckooland and tying up loose ends in some of the worlds to go through yet. I just planned and ran though finishing up Mayahem Temple and then partially finishing up Hailfire Peaks and Glitter Gulch Mine. (I have my reasons for chronologically doing this between Hailfire Peaks and Cloud Cuckooland.) I ran into a bit of a snag with the prison code in the Code Chamber in that the code was different depending on which file I played. In my run, I input the code as Banjo & Kazooie so I had to take time to go back and change into the Stony and then go get the code from the Stony near the Prison Compound entrance.

On file 1 the code was: Star, Sun, Star, Moon, Moon
File 2: Sun, Moon, Star, Moon, Sun
File 3: Moon, Star, Sun, Star, Star

In Dragorn's run, he uses the first file and the code was the same as it was in File 1 for me. This leads me to believe that the code is based upon which file is used, or is completely randomized and it was a coincidence that our File 1 codes were the same. Googling around only leads to people posting on forum boards basically saying there's no choice but to talk to the nearby Stony as a Stony. -____- So, I'll have to find out when I try my run for the second time with all three files.

Other than that, I do the Kickball games in the Mayahem Temple (and partial Hailfire Peaks/Glitter Gulch Mine) tying-up-loose ends segment. Most of the time I don't have an issue with the Kickball games. Every once in awhile in the Hailfire Peaks version, the CPUs randomly turn into dicks and tag team me when they are right next to my goal. Other times, more often than not, they spend most of their time fighting amongst themselves in the bottom portion of the field while I stand there, do nothing, and watch their scores skyrocket. And this wide difference in CPU behavior can be in the exact same level of game. (I noticed that ball spawning points are randomized as well.) Either way, I basically learned that I have to be more of a goalie than a field player, especially in the last game of the Hailfire Peaks version. I also learned that it is best if I kick the yellow balls into the wall and destroy them when they spawn close to my goal.

When I was playing the first file, I had an interesting outcome during one of the games; a near four-way tie. I don't even think I've had a three-way tie before...

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9tYB6.jpg[/IMG]

Anyway, I hope I am able to finish my route planning and get the last of my segments ran tonight...

mike89

2012-08-08 06:20:33 pm

SEGA Junkie

Quote from deutsch_joe:

No, I actually hadn't tried talking to Jamjars at those locations. I knew he would replenish life, but I wasn't aware he would replenish eggs... That is VERY useful information indeed! Thanks! Cheesy

I didn't know that either, that's pretty cool! My preferred location was the bottom level of the main interior of Hailfire Peaks - there's four egg nests next to each other there that change type at around the same time.

Quote from deutsch_joe:

On file 1 the code was: Star, Sun, Star, Moon, Moon
File 2: Sun, Moon, Star, Moon, Sun
File 3: Moon, Star, Sun, Star, Star

In Dragorn's run, he uses the first file and the code was the same as it was in File 1 for me. This leads me to believe that the code is based upon which file is used, or is completely randomized and it was a coincidence that our File 1 codes were the same. Googling around only leads to people posting on forum boards basically saying there's no choice but to talk to the nearby Stony as a Stony. -____- So, I'll have to find out when I try my run for the second time with all three files.

This one keeps coming back to haunt me. -_- I remember posting that back in like... 2005, but it's completely wrong, the code isn't linked to the save file at all.

HOWEVER, I believe those are the only three codes that exist, so you can save a bit of time by not having to go back to the Prison Compound as a Stony if you're willing to just trial-and-error those three codes instead.

[quote="deutsch_joe"]No, I actually hadn't tried talking to Jamjars at those locations. I knew he would replenish life, but I wasn't aware he would replenish eggs... That is VERY useful information indeed! Thanks! :D[/quote]

I didn't know that either, that's pretty cool! My preferred location was the bottom level of the main interior of Hailfire Peaks - there's four egg nests next to each other there that change type at around the same time.

[quote="deutsch_joe"]On file 1 the code was: Star, Sun, Star, Moon, Moon
File 2: Sun, Moon, Star, Moon, Sun
File 3: Moon, Star, Sun, Star, Star

In Dragorn's run, he uses the first file and the code was the same as it was in File 1 for me. This leads me to believe that the code is based upon which file is used, or is completely randomized and it was a coincidence that our File 1 codes were the same. Googling around only leads to people posting on forum boards basically saying there's no choice but to talk to the nearby Stony as a Stony. -____- So, I'll have to find out when I try my run for the second time with all three files.[/quote]

This one keeps coming back to haunt me. -_- I remember posting that back in like... 2005, but it's completely wrong, the code isn't linked to the save file at all.

HOWEVER, I believe those are the only three codes that exist, so you can save a bit of time by not having to go back to the Prison Compound as a Stony if you're willing to just trial-and-error those three codes instead.

Pjii

2012-08-08 09:04:29 pm

Quote from deutsch_joe:

Nice! Do you think you'll break four hours?

Sub 4 hours for 100% isn't possible with the current knowledge I have of the game. I'd have to find some serious skips for it to be possible. I do seem to keep finding small things that save a few seconds here and there, but nothing that'll get me near sub 4. Sub 4 may be possible for a leaderboard run, however.

---

There are 3 possible codes for the prison in the Prison Compound (the ones already listed). The way it works is that, on your first visit to the Prison Compound, the code is randomly picked between the 3 and locked in place. As long as you enter the Prison Compound once you'll have the same code for the rest of your playthrough, regardless of which save slot you're using. For single-segment runs the code will have to be guessed.

Q cumberR

2012-08-10 11:56:43 pm

Pjii, do you have skype or some other method of IM contact? I'm going to start running BT on N64 so I'm after some assistance in route planning =D

Pjii

2012-08-11 01:52:31 am

Quote from Q cumberR:

Pjii, do you have skype or some other method of IM contact? I'm going to start running BT on N64 so I'm after some assistance in route planning =D

I'll send you a PM.

deutsch_joe

Edit history:

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-13 03:38:05 am

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-13 03:34:36 am

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-13 03:24:09 am

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-13 02:34:55 am

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-12 09:36:17 pm

2012-08-12 09:33:39 pm

............... .......

Hey, sorry for not posting in the last few days. I've had a nasty work schedule.

On the bright side, I've completed planning for Cloud Cuckooland (sort of) and have ran that segment on the first two files. But... on the bad side of things, Mingy Jongo is a complete asshole with only five pieces of life. I definitely need to practice fighting him in the Boss Replays. When he gets down to a few hits left, his shots begin homing and Banjo/Kazooie need to change up their rolling/dodging strategies. I try to sort of roll past the shot and toward the direction the shot is chasing me from. This works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't... So yeah, this level's boss fight definitely needs work. The less than 10 second boss fight in the boss IL's makes it look so easy, but I have a hard time farting the Grenade Egg in time.

Speaking of Mingy Jongo, imagine my surprise when I played the second file only to discover that he and Mumbo switched places... So apparently which skulls they reside in is also something else that is randomly generated. -____- For what I had planned, I need Mingy Jongo to be located in the blue skull, which is through the blue door from Central Cavern (the one that's to the left of the Spring Pad) and Mumbo to be located in the red skull through the red door on the opposite side from the blue door. When Mumbo is located in the red skull, after I leave that skull, I can just immediately jump over on the side of the mountain and slide down to the running track where his pad is located. (Like what Dragorn does in his run.) But when their places are switched, I have to walk him all the way across Central Cavern. What a waste of time! It would also be quite infuriating to have a really good run only to have it ruined three segments (of 12) from the end when Mingy Jongo and Mumbo are in the wrong skulls. Angry

I'll have to come up with a slightly alternative plan if that happens to lessen the blow to my time, I think.

Quote from Pjii:

There are 3 possible codes for the prison in the Prison Compound (the ones already listed). The way it works is that, on your first visit to the Prison Compound, the code is randomly picked between the 3 and locked in place. As long as you enter the Prison Compound once you'll have the same code for the rest of your playthrough, regardless of which save slot you're using. For single-segment runs the code will have to be guessed.

I see. This actually isn't so bad. As long it's not just five random buttons... that would suck. But since it locks the code into place, and since I play the same run on all three files, that means that as long as I've noted what the codes were on the first two files, then I will know for sure what the code is on the third file. Which means the third file will have to be my good run.

Anyway, now that I'm not working ridiculous hours, it's time to seize the opportunity and practice at Mingy Jongo in addition to Clinker's Cavern for when I complete Grunty Industries... I'm looking forward to starting the game over now that I've got a plan to work with and have practiced up and seeing where it takes me... Grin

EDIT: Practiced fighting Mingy Jongo in Boss Replay mode. I've been managing to fart a Grenade Egg in time, but the hit would not register because Mingy Jongo would be talking. I'm not sure how MegaDestructor did it so that it would cancel out the text/cutscene.

No effect...

Furthermore, when there are only a few hits left, Mingy Jongo's shots would still fly straight and NOT home in on Banjo/Kazooie. I'm not sure why it doesn't behave the same way as it does in the primary part of the game, but this makes the Boss Replay mode ineffective for practice for the Cloud Cuckooland segment.

Banjo can practically dodge the attacks by walking... Mingy Jongo's shots aren't so kind in the real game.

On the other hand, I did come up with a strategy involving Grenade Eggs to help reduce the risk in fighting Mingy Jongo as well as speed the fight up (just not to the extent that MegaDestructor did in his IL boss run.). As a result, when I played the Cloud Cuckooland segment, I beat Mingy Jongo on my first try with only getting hit once. This is MUCH MUCH better than how I did on the previous two files, when I kept on dying multiple times.

In my Cloud Cuckooland run on the third file, Mingy Jongo and Mumbo were both in the wrong places for my route again. -__- However, I did alter my route on the fly and was able to be continually doing something toward finishing up the level without much downtime while still somewhat sticking to my original route (except that Mumbo had to walk across Central Cavern.) On the other hand, toward the end of the segment, I realized I forgot a few things since I was thrown off-rhythm by altering my route, so I had to backtrack in some places. I guess my point is that it is definitely possible to come up with an alternative route. I just need to develop one for next time. Tongue

The primary difference between the different routes for the different skull locations is the direction Banjo/Kazooie come from while going toward the real Mumbo's skull and where they go after Mumbo is finished with his rain dance. (Mingy Jongo can be fought at any point in the route.) Since they will be going to and from different locations, then the order that things need to be done in will be different.

Other than that, I lost to Canary Mary since I started off kinda strong in the button pressing. I've developed a strategy for racing her, and I messed it up. Tongue

I also had to commit suicide early as Mumbo since he got hit twice in Central Cavern by those annoying paper-thin enemies that pop up everywhere. He wouldn't have had enough life to make it down the mountain. And, Jamjars killed me by interrupting Kazooie in the middle of a jump off the cliff by explaining the floating creatures after she hatched the first one. Kazooie immediately fell straight down and stood on the mountain while Jamjars talked... and then slid down to her death. Thanks, Jamjars. Tongue

I'll have to remember to let Jamjars speak before I jump next time.

Despite all of this, I still felt the rest of the segment went pretty damn well. (Surprisingly, Cloud Cuckooland really wasn't all that difficult for the most part.) I can't wait to re-run this game once all of these kinks have been hammered out. Cheesy

Hey, sorry for not posting in the last few days. I've had a nasty work schedule.

On the bright side, I've completed planning for Cloud Cuckooland (sort of) and have ran that segment on the first two files. But... on the bad side of things, Mingy Jongo is a complete asshole with only five pieces of life. I definitely need to practice fighting him in the Boss Replays. When he gets down to a few hits left, his shots begin homing and Banjo/Kazooie need to change up their rolling/dodging strategies. I try to sort of roll past the shot and toward the direction the shot is chasing me from. This works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't... So yeah, this level's boss fight definitely needs work. The less than 10 second boss fight in the boss IL's makes it look so easy, but I have a hard time farting the Grenade Egg in time.

Speaking of Mingy Jongo, imagine my surprise when I played the second file only to discover that he and Mumbo switched places... So apparently which skulls they reside in is also something else that is randomly generated. -____- For what I had planned, I need Mingy Jongo to be located in the blue skull, which is through the blue door from Central Cavern (the one that's to the left of the Spring Pad) and Mumbo to be located in the red skull through the red door on the opposite side from the blue door. When Mumbo is located in the red skull, after I leave that skull, I can just immediately jump over on the side of the mountain and slide down to the running track where his pad is located. (Like what Dragorn does in his run.) But when their places are switched, I have to walk him all the way across Central Cavern. What a waste of time! [u]It would also be quite infuriating to have a really good run only to have it ruined three segments (of 12) from the end when Mingy Jongo and Mumbo are in the wrong skulls.[/u] >:( I'll have to come up with a slightly alternative plan if that happens to lessen the blow to my time, I think.

[quote="Pjii"]There are 3 possible codes for the prison in the Prison Compound (the ones already listed). The way it works is that, on your first visit to the Prison Compound, the code is randomly picked between the 3 and locked in place. As long as you enter the Prison Compound once you'll have the same code for the rest of your playthrough, regardless of which save slot you're using. For single-segment runs the code will have to be guessed. [/quote]

I see. This actually isn't so bad. As long it's not just five random buttons... that would suck. But since it locks the code into place, and since I play the same run on all three files, that means that as long as I've noted what the codes were on the first two files, then I will know for sure what the code is on the third file. Which means the third file will have to be my good run.

Anyway, now that I'm not working ridiculous hours, it's time to seize the opportunity and practice at Mingy Jongo in addition to Clinker's Cavern for when I complete Grunty Industries... I'm looking forward to starting the game over now that I've got a plan to work with and have practiced up and seeing where it takes me... ;D

EDIT: Practiced fighting Mingy Jongo in Boss Replay mode. I've been managing to fart a Grenade Egg in time, but the hit would not register because Mingy Jongo would be talking. I'm not sure how MegaDestructor did it so that it would cancel out the text/cutscene.

No effect...

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SK5fn.jpg[/IMG]

Furthermore, when there are only a few hits left, Mingy Jongo's shots would still fly straight and NOT home in on Banjo/Kazooie. I'm not sure why it doesn't behave the same way as it does in the primary part of the game, but this makes the Boss Replay mode ineffective for practice for the Cloud Cuckooland segment.

Banjo can practically dodge the attacks by walking... Mingy Jongo's shots aren't so kind in the real game.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/x6E9G.jpg[/IMG]

On the other hand, I did come up with a strategy involving Grenade Eggs to help reduce the risk in fighting Mingy Jongo as well as speed the fight up (just not to the extent that MegaDestructor did in his IL boss run.). As a result, when I played the Cloud Cuckooland segment, I beat Mingy Jongo on my first try with only getting hit once. This is MUCH MUCH better than how I did on the previous two files, when I kept on dying multiple times.

In my Cloud Cuckooland run on the third file, Mingy Jongo and Mumbo were both in the wrong places for my route again. -__- However, I did alter my route on the fly and was able to be continually doing something toward finishing up the level without much downtime while still somewhat sticking to my original route (except that Mumbo had to walk across Central Cavern.) On the other hand, toward the end of the segment, I realized I forgot a few things since I was thrown off-rhythm by altering my route, so I had to backtrack in some places. I guess my point is that it is definitely possible to come up with an alternative route. I just need to develop one for next time. :P The primary difference between the different routes for the different skull locations is the direction Banjo/Kazooie come from while going toward the real Mumbo's skull and where they go after Mumbo is finished with his rain dance. (Mingy Jongo can be fought at any point in the route.) Since they will be going to and from different locations, then the order that things need to be done in will be different.

Other than that, I lost to Canary Mary since I started off kinda strong in the button pressing. I've developed a strategy for racing her, and I messed it up. :P I also had to commit suicide early as Mumbo since he got hit twice in Central Cavern by those annoying paper-thin enemies that pop up everywhere. He wouldn't have had enough life to make it down the mountain. And, Jamjars killed me by interrupting Kazooie in the middle of a jump off the cliff by explaining the floating creatures after she hatched the first one. Kazooie immediately fell straight down and stood on the mountain while Jamjars talked... and then slid down to her death. Thanks, Jamjars. :P

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wIiNi.jpg[/IMG]

I'll have to remember to let Jamjars speak before I jump next time.

Despite all of this, I still felt the rest of the segment went pretty damn well. (Surprisingly, Cloud Cuckooland really wasn't all that difficult for the most part.) I can't wait to re-run this game once all of these kinks have been hammered out. :D

Pjii

2012-08-13 04:03:48 am

I've tied MD9's time for Mingy Jongo in boss replay - it is indeed possible. You have to press B to cancel the text in order for the Grenade Egg to hit him. Just practice it and try to get the timing down. I can also confirm that you can get the quick kill in the actual game. Even if you miss it you can still try charging at him with Wonderwing in hopes that you'll combo him to death (works pretty well, but not always).

deutsch_joe

Edit history:

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-15 11:32:34 pm

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-15 11:32:03 pm

2012-08-15 11:29:31 pm

............... .......

Well, I finished the last segment of the third file of the first attempt of the first version of my run:

While I was doing this run, I got bumped from #168 to #175, but when I finished, I got placed at #9:

All things considered, I am surprised and happy that this run came out to be sub-6 hours! I had many unintentional deaths, times where I got turned around or got ahead of myself and screwed up my route, fell off of places I shouldn't have, messed some things up because I hadn't practiced them enough (e.g. jumping to the pillar-island in Terrydactyland) and some bosses that kicked my ass multiple times. I also did some minor experiments within this file's game. And yet, I still made it to #9 on the Leaderboards.

So, now that the hard part of creating routes from scratch is mostly over, I can start hammering out the kinks. However, this will be the only attempt I make on the first version of my route. I've already thought of ways to change things around within my overall route so that the worlds are ran more efficiently.

In addition, I also have other things to consider in the second version of my route. An example is whether to get that Jinjo in Water Storage in Glitter Gulch Mine with a Clockwork Kazooie Egg later in the game or follow the traditional route from Jolly Roger's Lagoon. If I do use a Clockwork Kazooie Egg, it will considerably change the route for my second trip to Glitter Gulch Mine, as well have a dramatic effect on the inter-world travel wrap-up segment I (might) have planned.

At any rate, after I make edits to my route, it's time to practice up, dig in and give it another try! And of course I will be posting my progress here.

Well, I finished the last segment of the third file of the first attempt of the first version of my run:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nPVs3.jpg[/IMG]

While I was doing this run, I got bumped from #168 to #175, but when I finished, I got placed at #9:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/kJhlK.jpg[/IMG]

All things considered, I am surprised and happy that this run came out to be sub-6 hours! I had many unintentional deaths, times where I got turned around or got ahead of myself and screwed up my route, fell off of places I shouldn't have, messed some things up because I hadn't practiced them enough (e.g. jumping to the pillar-island in Terrydactyland) and some bosses that kicked my ass multiple times. I also did some minor experiments within this file's game. And yet, I still made it to #9 on the Leaderboards.

So, now that the hard part of creating routes from scratch is mostly over, I can start hammering out the kinks. However, this will be the only attempt I make on the first version of my route. I've already thought of ways to change things around within my overall route so that the worlds are ran more efficiently.

In addition, I also have other things to consider in the second version of my route. An example is whether to get that Jinjo in Water Storage in Glitter Gulch Mine with a Clockwork Kazooie Egg later in the game or follow the traditional route from Jolly Roger's Lagoon. If I do use a Clockwork Kazooie Egg, it will considerably change the route for my second trip to Glitter Gulch Mine, as well have a dramatic effect on the inter-world travel wrap-up segment I (might) have planned.

At any rate, after I make edits to my route, it's time to practice up, dig in and give it another try! And of course I will be posting my progress here.

facetouch

2012-08-15 11:36:12 pm

While posting progress of your next run, if you post pictures, could you mark them as spoilers so we don't get such giant posts?

deutsch_joe

Edit history:

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-22 10:03:44 pm

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-22 10:03:23 pm

deutsch_joe: 2012-08-22 09:59:09 pm

2012-08-22 09:56:39 pm

............... .......

Well, I haven't been posting, but I've restarted the game and have been playing through my run on every file like usual. I've already modified the route and I have even more modifications for version 3!

I just finished the fourth segment of my route and my times are faster than when I ran through the first version of my route at this same point. (I kept track of my times in an Excel file before my capture device was purchased.) The funny thing that I'm noticing about my performance is that for like 98% of route, my performance is pretty decent. But it's that small amount that's not perfect that's really putting a damper on my run. (Not that my runs are close to being finalized anyway.) What I'm talking about is stupid stuff like all of sudden falling off and dying inside the Star Spinner in Witchyworld because I accidentally flapped while jumping into the rotating sphere on top... and doing this again a few times over for different reasons other than flapping. Yet, in other files, I get the Jiggy on my first try. It's random things like this that I absolutely need to develop a strategy for and start doing consistently.

In the first file, I spent probably at least half of the fourth segment shooting the fish (protecting Chris P. Bacon) because I was having trouble with the over-sensitive controls. It seemed like, 90% of the time, I could get the crosshairs directly on the fish and kill it, but then there would be times I could get the crosshairs right next to a fish, but no matter how slightly I moved my thumb, the crosshairs wouldn't budge, even if I would slowly push the control stick more and more. But when they did, apparently when the signal from the left control stick finally crossed some sort of threshold, the crosshairs would jump across the screen... and a fish would then bite Chris. I don't know if I just suck, if my Xbox 360 controller is slightly faulty (sometimes Banjo starts to tiptoe in a random direction when I let up on the control stick), if the crosshair controls in this game are just that ridiculous or some combination of the three... At any rate, I did develop a strategy for this part. And that is to use Grenade Eggs against the fish. The explosions are big enough that they almost always catch the fish. So even if I shoot to the side or in front of the fish, it still hits them. As a result, I successfully protected Chris on my first try in the third file. ...And yeah, I plan on buying a new controller here pretty soon. Lips Sealed

Maybe with a new controller, I won't have to use Grenade Eggs.

My overall time on the third file, the best of the three, is still faster than it was at the same point on the last run. A time of 1:59:51 vs 2:16:15. Even though I wiped the floor with the fish in the fourth segment, I still ended up dicking around a whole bunch inside the Star Spinner in segment three of the third file... I also ended up getting hit once on accident as the Detonator in Giltter Gulch Mine, which ruins my plan for that part of the run... I got hit in a really inconvenient place, so I had to backtrack... costing some time. But I'm still getting a better time than last time despite these issues. On the plus side, this tells me what I need to practice at and be careful of when I am re-running these segments in the future.

Quote from facetouch:

While posting progress of your next run, if you post pictures, could you mark them as spoilers so we don't get such giant posts?

Sure, I hadn't thought of using the Spoiler tag to let people toggle the images on/off. I will do that in the future.

Anyway, that's it for now. Starting Friday, I'm going to be entering a period where I'll working at my job for quite a few hours over the next week or so, so I may not be able to run as many segments as I have been lately. Lame. Undecided

Well, I haven't been posting, but I've restarted the game and have been playing through my run on every file like usual. I've already modified the route and I have even more modifications for version 3!

I just finished the fourth segment of my route and my times are faster than when I ran through the first version of my route at this same point. (I kept track of my times in an Excel file before my capture device was purchased.)  The funny thing that I'm noticing about my performance is that for like 98% of route, my performance is pretty decent. But it's that small amount that's not perfect that's really putting a damper on my run. (Not that my runs are close to being finalized anyway.) What I'm talking about is stupid stuff like all of sudden falling off and dying inside the Star Spinner in Witchyworld because I accidentally flapped while jumping into the rotating sphere on top... and doing this again a few times over for different reasons other than flapping. [u]Yet, in other files, I get the Jiggy on my first try.[/u] It's random things like this that I absolutely need to develop a strategy for and start doing consistently.

In the first file, I spent probably at least half of the fourth segment shooting the fish (protecting Chris P. Bacon) because I was having trouble with the over-sensitive controls. It seemed like, 90% of the time, I could get the crosshairs directly on the fish and kill it, but then there would be times I could get the crosshairs right next to a fish, but no matter how slightly I moved my thumb, the crosshairs wouldn't budge, even if I would slowly push the control stick more and more. But when they did, apparently when the signal from the left control stick finally crossed some sort of threshold, the crosshairs would jump across the screen... and a fish would then bite Chris. I don't know if I just suck, if my Xbox 360 controller is slightly faulty (sometimes Banjo starts to tiptoe in a random direction when I let up on the control stick), if the crosshair controls in this game are just that ridiculous or some combination of the three... At any rate, I did develop a strategy for this part. And that is to use Grenade Eggs against the fish. The explosions are big enough that they almost always catch the fish. So even if I shoot to the side or in front of the fish, it still hits them. [u]As a result, I successfully protected Chris on my first try in the third file.[/u] ...And yeah, I plan on buying a new controller here pretty soon. :-X Maybe with a new controller, I won't have to use Grenade Eggs.

My overall time on the third file, the best of the three, is still faster than it was at the same point on the last run. A time of 1:59:51 vs 2:16:15. Even though I wiped the floor with the fish in the fourth segment, I still ended up dicking around a whole bunch inside the Star Spinner in segment three of the third file... I also ended up getting hit once on accident as the Detonator in Giltter Gulch Mine, which ruins my plan for that part of the run... I got hit in a really inconvenient place, so I had to backtrack... costing some time. [u]But I'm still getting a better time than last time despite these issues.[/u] On the plus side, this tells me what I need to practice at and be careful of when I am re-running these segments in the future.

[quote="facetouch"]While posting progress of your next run, if you post pictures, could you mark them as spoilers so we don't get such giant posts?[/quote]

Sure, I hadn't thought of using the Spoiler tag to let people toggle the images on/off. I will do that in the future.

Anyway, that's it for now. Starting Friday, I'm going to be entering a period where I'll working at my job for quite a few hours over the next week or so, so I may not be able to run as many segments as I have been lately. Lame. :-\