Baldur's Gate 2 Finished

Edit history:

Smilge: 2010-05-15 12:08:23 pm

2008-10-12 02:53:26 pm

23 minute run: http://speeddemosarchive.com/BaldursGate2.html

Hey guys, I have been working on beating the current Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn speed run. I'm not sure how they get the official time for the run, but I've beaten the old time by a little over 4 minutes. I used a Mage/Thief multiclass. Mage was for some important starter spells, and thief was for Hide in Shadows and Pickpocketing. Backstab was mildly useful at one point. I used 17 segments. I'm still working on uploading, verifying, and writing comments, but I'm really excited with my score. I'd love to hear any questions, and I'll post the video on youtube as soon as I can.

Thread title:

Lag.Com

2008-10-12 04:06:21 pm

sda loyalist

I'd rather wait until the videos before I comment, but, good job! 4 minutes... I'm guessing it's not play optimisation as such, so what new strategies did you find?

Smilge

2008-10-12 05:36:17 pm

The biggest thing was that I didn't need to restock after leaving underdark. I went straight for Bohdi (which I also did faster, I hopped the locked door instead of clearing out all the vampires). A lot of it was play optimization though. I got out of the dungeon 30 seconds faster, partly from hopping the door instead of killing mephits, but a lot of it was that I didn't need to pause and mess around with removing party members and transfering items in inventories. I only opened my inventory when I needed to, I only leveled up when I needed to (I ended the game with 2 or 3 level ups waiting). I rested only when I absolutely had to, and because of this I didn't need to endure any dream sequences. I used more segments, which allowed me to be unforigiving of misclicks.
This isn't to say DAMURDOC did it wrong. I was playing a different class, which is huge. I don't know if I would be able to improve his time with a sorcerer more than a minute, even with all the new tricks.

Also, since I was a thief, I took the Shadow Thief route rather than ally with Bohdi. I thought it would be faster, but my downfall was the long path back to the shadowmaster Aryn Linvale. I ended up losing about 20 seconds to DAMURDOC's time from the chat with Bayle to the ship's departure. At one point I think I'll look around for quicker paths.

Anyways, you can take a look at the video

A big thanks to Damurdoc for showing the layout for most of the run. I couldn't have done it without him.

The biggest thing was that I didn't need to restock after leaving underdark. I went straight for Bohdi (which I also did faster, I hopped the locked door instead of clearing out all the vampires). A lot of it was play optimization though. I got out of the dungeon 30 seconds faster, partly from hopping the door instead of killing mephits, but a lot of it was that I didn't need to pause and mess around with removing party members and transfering items in inventories. I only opened my inventory when I needed to, I only leveled up when I needed to (I ended the game with 2 or 3 level ups waiting). I rested only when I absolutely had to, and because of this I didn't need to endure any dream sequences. I used more segments, which allowed me to be unforigiving of misclicks.
This isn't to say DAMURDOC did it wrong. I was playing a different class, which is huge. I don't know if I would be able to improve his time with a sorcerer more than a minute, even with all the new tricks.

Also, since I was a thief, I took the Shadow Thief route rather than ally with Bohdi. I thought it would be faster, but my downfall was the long path back to the shadowmaster Aryn Linvale. I ended up losing about 20 seconds to DAMURDOC's time from the chat with Bayle to the ship's departure. At one point I think I'll look around for quicker paths.

Anyways, you can take a look at the [url=http://hosted.filefront.com/Smilge]video[/url]

A big thanks to Damurdoc for showing the layout for most of the run. I couldn't have done it without him.

Lag.Com

2008-10-13 02:04:26 am

sda loyalist

This is very good. Sometimes shops could be a little quicker, but I know how sticky those buttons are. One thing I would suggest is save/loading to avoid 'being waylaid', if the encounters are not fixed. As you have another thing to research already, I say you should record a new run to send to SDA rather than this one.

julien

2008-10-13 07:57:29 am

Quote from Smilge:

Also, since I was a thief, I took the Shadow Thief route rather than ally with Bohdi. I thought it would be faster, but my downfall was the long path back to the shadowmaster Aryn Linvale. I ended up losing about 20 seconds to DAMURDOC's time from the chat with Bayle to the ship's departure. At one point I think I'll look around for quicker paths.

Why didn't you just change you route and allied with Bodhi then?
Anyway, good job! Especially great that you chose another class, considering that DAMURDOC claimed that another class couldn't do it faster :-)

Smilge

2008-10-13 08:45:54 am

The waylaid events you see are scripted, I did try to get around them. I thought I had something when I got waylaid from Docks-Bridge but not from Docks-Slums, however, when I tried to enter the Bridge district from anywhere I'd get waylaid. I save/loaded to avoid some waylaid events that weren't scripted though, like from the Graveyard to the Underdark exit.

I needed to buy at least 7 more oils of speed, and the Bridge District was the only place I knew of where I could get that many easily. On bohdi's quest, the Bridge district would have been a 40+ second detour, whereas the thief quest puts you right on the map. Also, I don't have a superb way of killing Aran, but I suppose it is something worth looking into. I actually didn't compare my times with DAMURDOC until I was almost entirely finished.

Smilge

2008-11-29 09:27:16 pm

It's up on SDA now, check the first post.

Anyways, I was thinking about doing a single-segment run. I don't see many parts that are extremely difficult. A few places may need to be handled differently, but all the fights are as simple as they look. I can start recording in a few weeks during christmas break. Has anyone attempted this before or is there any interest in seeing this done?

julien

2008-11-30 02:17:24 am

A single segment run of BG2 would be great! I don't think anyone tried it before.

hitman201

2008-11-30 07:30:05 am

Time to Kick Ass and Chew Bumble Gum

Quote from julien:

A single segment run of BG2 would be great! I don't think anyone tried it before.

yup that would be awesome too

Smilge

2008-12-02 08:23:18 pm

I'm still working on mapping out my route and looking for new things to exploit. I will pretty much follow my segmented run's route, with a few exceptions.

I'm going to magic missle or something to kill one of the goblins blocking the path out. Whacking them with a fist then running and hiding wasn't very reliable.

I plan on killing the mephit portals and going out the door that way. It's kind of hard to hop that door, and if my familiar dies I'll almost certainly die too.

I'm going to buy a sword or dagger of some kind so I can backstab if need be later on.

I'll get a few fireball scrolls instead of Symbol: Death and lightning bolt to deal with the shadow thief traitors. That way a save vs spell won't screw me over completely. I'll also pause to make sure I can steal that note from the informant.

I'm going to have to go with the Shadow Thieves route again, since it was so simple. I can't imagine trying to hop over all those walls and kill Aran Linvail in a single segment. The only time I'd die in the vampire lair was from the spiked floor area. I think I can use stoneskin to absorb the trap(s) had used mirror image, which won't always work.

Hopping the walls in spellhold will be a little tricky. You can't rest, or you'll trigger the whole cutscene and go to bohdi's lair. I may pack up some scrolls of monster summoning to make sure I can't fail getting into the underdark.

I'll pause to pickpocket the light gem. I may quaff some potions or pump my pickpocket skill a little higher, since I restarted quite a few times trying to get that gem.

When confronting bohdi, I'll either have to find a potion or spell that won't let me be dominated (it happened often) or I'll let drizzit and crew kill the whole room and not bother trying to hop the door. I guess I could do some play with protection from undead scrolls. This one still needs further review.

Let's see... Suldenessanar. The only thing that got me here was a cutscene that occasionally occured and the room with the clay golems. The cutscene I'll just have to deal with, the clay golems I'll pause and invisibility instead of trying to run.

The tree, I found a pretty good strategy for the elementals that builds off the current one, but I'd need a scroll (or two, or three) of mislead. I can't think of anywhere to get one, mabye the svbrevlefin village. If not, I may still be able to pull something off with an extra ring of air control.

Hell only gave me trouble when I fought Sarevok. He'd occasionally resist the psionic blast. This will not be an issue, since I read about clone_rizzo's one tear trick. It is easy enough that I can do it in a SS game for sure. Irenicus wasn't hard either.

Well I think that covers it. If you guys have any insight to share with me, please do. Even better if you can test it out yourself. My girlfriend told me that she hates this game now Grin

Like I said, I'll start real work on it sometime during christmas break which is two to three weeks from now.

I'm still working on mapping out my route and looking for new things to exploit. I will pretty much follow my segmented run's route, with a few exceptions.

I'm going to magic missle or something to kill one of the goblins blocking the path out. Whacking them with a fist then running and hiding wasn't very reliable.

I plan on killing the mephit portals and going out the door that way. It's kind of hard to hop that door, and if my familiar dies I'll almost certainly die too.

I'm going to buy a sword or dagger of some kind so I can backstab if need be later on.

I'll get a few fireball scrolls instead of Symbol: Death and lightning bolt to deal with the shadow thief traitors. That way a save vs spell won't screw me over completely. I'll also pause to make sure I can steal that note from the informant.

I'm going to have to go with the Shadow Thieves route again, since it was so simple. I can't imagine trying to hop over all those walls and kill Aran Linvail in a single segment. The only time I'd die in the vampire lair was from the spiked floor area. I think I can use stoneskin to absorb the trap(s) had used mirror image, which won't always work.

Hopping the walls in spellhold will be a little tricky. You can't rest, or you'll trigger the whole cutscene and go to bohdi's lair. I may pack up some scrolls of monster summoning to make sure I can't fail getting into the underdark.

I'll pause to pickpocket the light gem. I may quaff some potions or pump my pickpocket skill a little higher, since I restarted quite a few times trying to get that gem.

When confronting bohdi, I'll either have to find a potion or spell that won't let me be dominated (it happened often) or I'll let drizzit and crew kill the whole room and not bother trying to hop the door. I guess I could do some play with protection from undead scrolls. This one still needs further review.

Let's see... Suldenessanar. The only thing that got me here was a cutscene that occasionally occured and the room with the clay golems. The cutscene I'll just have to deal with, the clay golems I'll pause and invisibility instead of trying to run.

The tree, I found a pretty good strategy for the elementals that builds off the current one, but I'd need a scroll (or two, or three) of mislead. I can't think of anywhere to get one, mabye the svbrevlefin village. If not, I may still be able to pull something off with an extra ring of air control.

Hell only gave me trouble when I fought Sarevok. He'd occasionally resist the psionic blast. This will not be an issue, since I read about clone_rizzo's one tear trick. It is easy enough that I can do it in a SS game for sure. Irenicus wasn't hard either.

Well I think that covers it. If you guys have any insight to share with me, please do. Even better if you can test it out yourself. My girlfriend told me that she hates this game now ;D

Like I said, I'll start real work on it sometime during christmas break which is two to three weeks from now.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2008-12-03 08:49:56 am

2008-12-03 07:16:49 am

A few questions/ideas.

Firstly,

Quote:

I'll pause to pickpocket the light gem. I may quaff some potions or pump my pickpocket skill a little higher, since I restarted quite a few times trying to get that gem.

You mean the gem the gnome in the underdark has? Wouldn't it be quicker just to kill the pest and take it from his body?

Secondly, a couple of questions about the strategies used in the segmented run:
* Wouldn't Suldanesslar be quicker with a party? I think all the buildings are non-party-required areas so you could split the group and gather all the items you need, then drop them out of the party (automatically moving the items to your inventory) before going to see Irenicus's dragon. I gues the hard part in your segmented run would be getting a party together in less time than this method would save, since you can't take Minsc and Jaheira with you if you jump the door in Irenicus's dungeon - but in your single-segment run doing it this way would definitely make sense (you can just leave Minsc and Jaheira at the edge of Waukeen's Promenade at the end of Chapter 1 and pick them up in a couple of seconds before heading to Suldanesslar). Even in the segmented run, this might be a timesaver if you haven't considered it.
* Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there was talk a long while back, when Damurdoc was running, about it being possible to open the gate in hell using a single tear of Bhaal, though I don't remember the details. Tears of Bhaal are inventory items, right? Have you tried dropping them right after clicking on the gate to stop them being removed from your inventory? (And there are ways to drop undroppable items, too, if they're undroppable, although the quickest would again require a party).

Edit: As for protection from domination, I have a few ideas:
* Play as a mage/cleric/thief instead of a mage/thief, and use Chaotic Commands. (probably not viable).
* I know that characters tend to be around your level when you encounter them for the first time. Whether they automatically level up after being removed from your party, I don't know. I doubt it, but if they do, ditch Jaheira at the edge of Waukeen's promenade at the end of chapter 1 and grab her in chapter 6 to cast chaotic commands on you.
* I expect Mind Flayers can't be dominated. I don't know if you can get your hands on an extra shapechange scroll, though.
* How about spell turning / other generic spell-defence spells? It wouldn't surprise me if lots of monster special abilities are counted as level 1 spells by default out of laziness on the developers' part. Spell trap would probably work too.

I'm sure there are many spells/potions/rings that I don't know about that protect from domination and will be quicker and better than these ideas, but I don't know the game well enough. Alas I don't have the CDs with me, or I'd do some research for you.

Edit 2: I'm SURE you've tried this, but does the movement speed bonus wolves get stack with haste? This would speed up the entire run if it worked.

A few questions/ideas.

Firstly,

[quote]I'll pause to pickpocket the light gem. I may quaff some potions or pump my pickpocket skill a little higher, since I restarted quite a few times trying to get that gem.[/quote]

You mean the gem the gnome in the underdark has? Wouldn't it be quicker just to kill the pest and take it from his body?

Secondly, a couple of questions about the strategies used in the segmented run:
* Wouldn't Suldanesslar be quicker with a party? I think all the buildings are non-party-required areas so you could split the group and gather all the items you need, then drop them out of the party (automatically moving the items to your inventory) before going to see Irenicus's dragon. I gues the hard part in your segmented run would be getting a party together in less time than this method would save, since you can't take Minsc and Jaheira with you if you jump the door in Irenicus's dungeon - but in your single-segment run doing it this way would definitely make sense (you can just leave Minsc and Jaheira at the edge of Waukeen's Promenade at the end of Chapter 1 and pick them up in a couple of seconds before heading to Suldanesslar). Even in the segmented run, this might be a timesaver if you haven't considered it.
* Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there was talk a long while back, when Damurdoc was running, about it being possible to open the gate in hell using a single tear of Bhaal, though I don't remember the details. Tears of Bhaal are inventory items, right? Have you tried dropping them right after clicking on the gate to stop them being removed from your inventory? (And there are ways to drop undroppable items, too, if they're undroppable, although the quickest would again require a party).

Edit: As for protection from domination, I have a few ideas:
* Play as a mage/cleric/thief instead of a mage/thief, and use Chaotic Commands. (probably not viable).
* I know that characters tend to be around your level when you encounter them for the first time. Whether they automatically level up after being removed from your party, I don't know. I doubt it, but if they do, ditch Jaheira at the edge of Waukeen's promenade at the end of chapter 1 and grab her in chapter 6 to cast chaotic commands on you.
* I expect Mind Flayers can't be dominated. I don't know if you can get your hands on an extra shapechange scroll, though.
* How about spell turning / other generic spell-defence spells? It wouldn't surprise me if lots of monster special abilities are counted as level 1 spells by default out of laziness on the developers' part. Spell trap would probably work too.

I'm sure there are many spells/potions/rings that I don't know about that protect from domination and will be quicker and better than these ideas, but I don't know the game well enough. Alas I don't have the CDs with me, or I'd do some research for you.

Edit 2: I'm SURE you've tried this, but does the movement speed bonus wolves get stack with haste? This would speed up the entire run if it worked.

Smilge

2008-12-03 09:01:33 am

The underdark gnome is actually pretty hard to kill. He casts a lot of spell protections when he turns hostile, and I seem to remember the other gnomes coming to his aid. The master thievery potions shouldn't take a long time to drink, since I can use them while I'm running over to him.

Suldenessalar probably would be quicker with a party. I could send one character to get the rune and necklace without fear, since there are no monsters on the way there. The horn room is full of those golems, so that would have to be done carefully. The harp room is empty, just the golems outside could cause trouble, but I'm sure I could manage that with a invisibility potion. The sword room should also be pretty easy, since all it is is a cutscene.

Ribald sells a rod of ressurection, so I bet I can carry Misnc, Jaheria, and Yoshimo along as dead bodies until I need them.

Yeah, I read about using one Tear of Bhaal to open the gate. I probably should have clarified, but that's what I meant by "clone_rizzo's one tear trick" in my previous post.

You're probably right about the spell turning or spell trap. I'll have to see if there's a nice place to pick one of those up. Or if I can find a Potion of Clarity it stop domination (it says charm, but mabye it means charm-like spells).

Thanks for the ideas, I'll definitely start practicing with multiple party members in Suldenessalar. That should be a huge time saver.

The underdark gnome is actually pretty hard to kill. He casts a lot of spell protections when he turns hostile, and I seem to remember the other gnomes coming to his aid. The master thievery potions shouldn't take a long time to drink, since I can use them while I'm running over to him.

Suldenessalar probably would be quicker with a party. I could send one character to get the rune and necklace without fear, since there are no monsters on the way there. The horn room is full of those golems, so that would have to be done carefully. The harp room is empty, just the golems outside could cause trouble, but I'm sure I could manage that with a invisibility potion. The sword room should also be pretty easy, since all it is is a cutscene.

Ribald sells a rod of ressurection, so I bet I can carry Misnc, Jaheria, and Yoshimo along as dead bodies until I need them.

Yeah, I read about using one Tear of Bhaal to open the gate. I probably should have clarified, but that's what I meant by "clone_rizzo's one tear trick" in my previous post.

You're probably right about the spell turning or spell trap. I'll have to see if there's a nice place to pick one of those up. Or if I can find a Potion of Clarity it stop domination (it says charm, but mabye it means charm-like spells).

Thanks for the ideas, I'll definitely start practicing with multiple party members in Suldenessalar. That should be a huge time saver.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2008-12-03 11:44:00 am

2008-12-03 09:17:28 am

Just had another idea. I presume Irenicus is spell immune prior to you killing the elementals? But I was reading here: http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm and noticed that Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is bugged and doesn't protect against an assassin's poison weapon ability. This is a long shot, but maybe spell-immune Irenicus is vulnerable to poison weapon too. If you played as a human assassin and dual-classed to mage, you might be able to use poison weapon to get Irenicus down to 1hp and trigger going to hell without fighting the elementals at all. This would require a big rethink of your early-game strategy, though.

Edit: And by the way, nice thinking bringing people along as corpses. That didn't occur to me for some reason. Yoshimo probably gets removed from your party in Spellhold even if he's dead, though.

Edit 2: Another idea. Could you skip the cutscene in the sword room by going in with Time Stop on?

Edit 3: Having a party could speed up other parts of the game where fetching an item is required. Is the top of the Five Flagons a party-required area? If it isn't, you could send Jan to get the documents for you and save a few seconds. Also, if you were to change strategies and work for Bodhi, you could have an NPC mage kill Aran Linvail, saving you all the time needed to backtrack from Linvail to the area exit.

Edit 4: Party members might also be quicker to use than summons when wall-hopping with polymorph.

Edit 5: Use this:
I'm not quite sure how it works but it's obviously a big timesaver, even if it means killing the mephit portals instead of jumping the door. Also, you can let your soon-to-be-dead extra party members kill Irenicus for giggles.

Edit 6: If you go to the slums, do the other areas of Athkatla become unlocked, or does this only happen after entering chapter 2? If the condition is just that the slums have been visited, might it be possible to go there and leave so quickly that you never speak to Gaelan Bayle, skip chapter 2 and the cutscene at the start of it entirely, go straight to the graveyard district and ally with Bodhi? Just another wild idea and entirely dependent upon how the game is scripted and especially how the increase-chapter scripts work. Might not actually skip anything. Further edit - how about going to the slums in animal form so you can't engage in dialogue?

Edit 7: If you work for the thieves, you could have party members go and do the talking to Aran, then remove them from the party straight away and go straight outside. This would halve the time spent walking along his giant corridor. If you're running low on party members, instead use poison so they drop dead as soon as the conversation finishes. This would save about 1 minute.

Edit 8: Can you kill Mook yourself? You need to get documents or a shipment or something off her to complete the quest, right? Wouldn't it save a couple of seconds to pickpocket her and quickly turn invisible again and flee? Failing that, send a party member to speak to her!

Edit 9: I think you mentioned the lack of oils of speed along the route being a reason for not working for Bodhi, but if you spend a few seconds killing the guy who has it I think you could get Arbane's Short Sword in one of the unskippable encounters between areas, which lets you cast improved haste once per day. Might not last long enough to be a viable replacement for oils of speed, though. Also not sure if the encounter happens without Jaheira in the party - it might be the dying man quest.

Edit 10: Time could also be saved if party members were used to deal with Lassal. I'm going to stop pointing out all the places having a party could help now since there's loads. Of course, finding a method by which party members could kill Lassal might be hard without a mage in the party (question - any possible glitch to keep Imoen in the party after leaving Irenicus's dungeon?). Any party member can cast from a scroll or wand by swapping it with a potion in the inventory, but the effect will always be directed at the party member which is unhelpful with most spells. Perhaps you can come up with a creative solution, though.

Edit 11: At least one unpickable lock in the game is known to be knockable (the one on the chest in Maevar's room). Others still may be forceable - I don't think anyone ever tries forcing locks. If you can be bothered, it's worth taking the time to test knocking and forcing every unpickable door that it might help to open.

Edit 12: Another long shot, but can Viconia, being Drow, bribe your way out of the underdark without you ever getting transformed into a Drow?

Edit 13: Drizzt would kill Bodhi in a couple less seconds if you cast improved haste on him instead of just haste. Not sure if there's a casting time difference though that would outweigh it. Further edit: also, why don't you throw some area of effect spells at her from your hiding place?

Edit 14: Can't think of anything else. I reckon even if all the maybe-possible glitches I've suggested don't work, a segmented run could maybe get under 35 minutes; the one tear of Bhaal trick saves two minutes, skipping the cutscene when you enter Waukeen's promenade saves nearly 2 minutes, and many minutes can be saved using a party. Even little things like the initial shopping in Waukeen's promenade can be done faster with a party.

Edit 15: Wow! I'm going to watch all kar98's videos, he's got some awesome stuff. THIS should speed up Irenicus's dungeon.
(Although of course it's incompatible with my Assassin/Mage idea since you'd only be level 1 at that point. Unless Imoen has polymorph self? Or perhaps you could do it by getting LOTS of summons and displacing yourself with your familiar?)

Edit 16: Cowled Wizards might be a source of hard-to-obtain scrolls or potions if you either waited around to talk to them when they teleport in after spellcasting, or massacred some civilians to get your reputation down. Not sure how you'd kill them quickly though.

Edit 17: Also, try hopping the gate in Suldanesslar, taking the Horn and Harp and skipping the other items and the Avatar. DAMURDOC tried this, but encountered some complications, though he's forgotten what they were. Whatever they were, maybe we can find a way around them.

Just had another idea. I presume Irenicus is spell immune prior to you killing the elementals? But I was reading here: http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm and noticed that Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is bugged and doesn't protect against an assassin's poison weapon ability. This is a long shot, but maybe spell-immune Irenicus is vulnerable to poison weapon too. If you played as a human assassin and dual-classed to mage, you might be able to use poison weapon to get Irenicus down to 1hp and trigger going to hell without fighting the elementals at all. This would require a big rethink of your early-game strategy, though.

Edit: And by the way, nice thinking bringing people along as corpses. That didn't occur to me for some reason. Yoshimo probably gets removed from your party in Spellhold even if he's dead, though.

Edit 2: Another idea. Could you skip the cutscene in the sword room by going in with Time Stop on?

Edit 3: Having a party could speed up other parts of the game where fetching an item is required. Is the top of the Five Flagons a party-required area? If it isn't, you could send Jan to get the documents for you and save a few seconds. Also, if you were to change strategies and work for Bodhi, you could have an NPC mage kill Aran Linvail, saving you all the time needed to backtrack from Linvail to the area exit.

Edit 4: Party members might also be quicker to use than summons when wall-hopping with polymorph.

Edit 5: Use this: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jlBvO1hy6Ig
I'm not quite sure how it works but it's obviously a big timesaver, even if it means killing the mephit portals instead of jumping the door. Also, you can let your soon-to-be-dead extra party members kill Irenicus for giggles.

Edit 6: If you go to the slums, do the other areas of Athkatla become unlocked, or does this only happen after entering chapter 2? If the condition is just that the slums have been visited, might it be possible to go there and leave so quickly that you never speak to Gaelan Bayle, skip chapter 2 and the cutscene at the start of it entirely, go straight to the graveyard district and ally with Bodhi? Just another wild idea and entirely dependent upon how the game is scripted and especially how the increase-chapter scripts work. Might not actually skip anything. Further edit - how about going to the slums in animal form so you can't engage in dialogue?

Edit 7: If you work for the thieves, you could have party members go and do the talking to Aran, then remove them from the party straight away and go straight outside. This would halve the time spent walking along his giant corridor. If you're running low on party members, instead use poison so they drop dead as soon as the conversation finishes. This would save about 1 minute.

Edit 8: Can you kill Mook yourself? You need to get documents or a shipment or something off her to complete the quest, right? Wouldn't it save a couple of seconds to pickpocket her and quickly turn invisible again and flee? Failing that, send a party member to speak to her!

Edit 9: I think you mentioned the lack of oils of speed along the route being a reason for not working for Bodhi, but if you spend a few seconds killing the guy who has it I think you could get Arbane's Short Sword in one of the unskippable encounters between areas, which lets you cast improved haste once per day. Might not last long enough to be a viable replacement for oils of speed, though. Also not sure if the encounter happens without Jaheira in the party - it might be the dying man quest.

Edit 10: Time could also be saved if party members were used to deal with Lassal. I'm going to stop pointing out all the places having a party could help now since there's loads. Of course, finding a method by which party members could kill Lassal might be hard without a mage in the party (question - any possible glitch to keep Imoen in the party after leaving Irenicus's dungeon?). Any party member can cast from a scroll or wand by swapping it with a potion in the inventory, but the effect will always be directed at the party member which is unhelpful with most spells. Perhaps you can come up with a creative solution, though.

Edit 11: At least one unpickable lock in the game is known to be knockable (the one on the chest in Maevar's room). Others still may be forceable - I don't think anyone ever tries forcing locks. If you can be bothered, it's worth taking the time to test knocking and forcing every unpickable door that it might help to open.

Edit 12: Another long shot, but can Viconia, being Drow, bribe your way out of the underdark without you ever getting transformed into a Drow?

Edit 13: Drizzt would kill Bodhi in a couple less seconds if you cast improved haste on him instead of just haste. Not sure if there's a casting time difference though that would outweigh it. Further edit: also, why don't you throw some area of effect spells at her from your hiding place?

Edit 14: Can't think of anything else. I reckon even if all the maybe-possible glitches I've suggested don't work, a segmented run could maybe get under 35 minutes; the one tear of Bhaal trick saves two minutes, skipping the cutscene when you enter Waukeen's promenade saves nearly 2 minutes, and many minutes can be saved using a party. Even little things like the initial shopping in Waukeen's promenade can be done faster with a party.

Edit 15: Wow! I'm going to watch all kar98's videos, he's got some awesome stuff. THIS should speed up Irenicus's dungeon.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nb5chqVr0MM&feature=related (Although of course it's incompatible with my Assassin/Mage idea since you'd only be level 1 at that point. Unless Imoen has polymorph self? Or perhaps you could do it by getting LOTS of summons and displacing yourself with your familiar?)

Edit 16: Cowled Wizards might be a source of hard-to-obtain scrolls or potions if you either waited around to talk to them when they teleport in after spellcasting, or massacred some civilians to get your reputation down. Not sure how you'd kill them quickly though.

Edit 17: Also, try hopping the gate in Suldanesslar, taking the Horn and Harp and skipping the other items and the Avatar. DAMURDOC tried this, but encountered some complications, though he's forgotten what they were. Whatever they were, maybe we can find a way around them.

Smilge

2008-12-03 05:50:03 pm

Wow, nice ideas. I'll take another look at Irenicus, but from what I understand it's actually two characters. The Irenicus you see casting has no effect on anything. He's removed when you kill the last parasite, and replaced with the real, script-affecting Irenicus.

2. I just tried to skip the sword cutscene with time stop, but unfortunately this is a party required area and for whatever reason it says "You must gather your party before venturing forth" during the time stop, even if you're the only one in your party.

3. Five Flagons Inn is party required. Killing Aran Linvail would be much quicker. I could even send an NPC to push the button that opens the second door. Wow, yeah that could be really quick if done correctly.

4. Perhaps, but summoning takes about 2 or 3 seconds and yields up to 4 monsters, where each resurrection would take a round (6 seconds).

5. Yeah I saw that. Kar98 is known as "clone_rizzo" on these boards. I was able to recreate that glitch (kind of... see #10) but I can't see it being done in a SS run. I'll definately include it in my next segmented run if someone doesn't beat me to it.

6. It's as soon as you go to the Slums from what I just tested. I bugged out the game and I'm stuck in an infinite cut scene, but I'm sure it could be done. I don't know if you can skip straight ahead to Bohdi though. Chapter 2 doesn't occur until after you talk to Gaelen Bayle, and skipping chapters tends not to bode well for being able to complete the game. It may save you a trip to Bayle's, since you need to visit him again to kill him if you side with Bohdi. I will test this further and see if I can get anything out of it.
Animals can't initiate dialog, but they can be forced into it like anyone else. Bummer.

7. That's an awesome idea.

8. For the Thieves, you only have to see mook die. Mabye if you kill her instead of letting the vampire do it...
Oh sweet, you can kill her yourself and it skips the whole cutscene and dialog of waiting for Lassal. Awesome.

9. If I remember correctly, it only lasts for 20 seconds.
Nope, it only lasts for 12 seconds. I have been thinking of ways to get more potions of speed. I seem to remember some of the thieves outside the Guild Hall having one each, but they immediately use it when they see you. I'm working on finding a way of getting them before they see me.

10. Yeah, one can wait upstairs in the spike room while the other finishes his dialogs. While one kills him, the other can get ready to stake him and run out. This one is especially nice because the spike room offers an easy way to get killed to avoid "you must gather your party" problems.

I accidentally kept Imoen outside of the dungeon by doing the dialog glitch to skip the cut scene. When I skipped the cut scene, I REALLY skipped the cut scene. Irenicus and the shadow theives weren't there. The wizards didn't appear. Best of all Imoen stayed in my party. She also kept her unremovable "Immune to death" belt. I kind of wanted to continue with the game to see if I could get a second imoen in Bohdi's spellhold dungeon.

11. I will definatly try this. Most locked doors have the same message when trying to lockpick them. One that doesn't is Mae'var's lock box. Another is the door in Suldanessalar.

12. I think the drow will be innately hostile unless the trigger to turn into a drow is set. I'll check though.

13. Yeah, that's a good idea. The cast times are the same IIRC. I didn't dare leave the shadows, as a lot of the vampires/grim warders would kick my ass if they saw me.

14. Yeah, these are some serious improvements. The question is, who will apply them all to a new run the fastest?

15. I saw that. It looks like a lot of preparation went into that. Mabye, just mabye, with enough lucky summons one could pull that off. But I don't think the dungeon level 1 took very much time anyways.

16. Hmm, that is a good idea for a segmented run. They seem to occasionally drop random high level scrolls. They are a pain to kill, but I think some well placed traps should knock them out before they can cast.

17. I read what DAMURDOC said about jumping that gate, and so I tried it myself. I found that the gates are not the problem. You don't even have to jump them. Just convince the guard you're not a monster and he'll let you in the first one. The second one is either unlocked or pickable. The real problem is the door. The part you click on to enter a doorway isn't there until you open the door, and the door can't be opened except by summoning the avatar (pending research).

Wow man, thanks a bunch for all these ideas. This is exactly what I was hoping for when I posted on these boards. I'm definitely going to have to take a crack at another segmented run.

Wow, nice ideas. I'll take another look at Irenicus, but from what I understand it's actually two characters. The Irenicus you see casting has no effect on anything. He's removed when you kill the last parasite, and replaced with the real, script-affecting Irenicus.

2. I just tried to skip the sword cutscene with time stop, but unfortunately this is a party required area and for whatever reason it says "You must gather your party before venturing forth" during the time stop, even if you're the only one in your party.

3. Five Flagons Inn is party required. Killing Aran Linvail would be much quicker. I could even send an NPC to push the button that opens the second door. Wow, yeah that could be really quick if done correctly.

4. Perhaps, but summoning takes about 2 or 3 seconds and yields up to 4 monsters, where each resurrection would take a round (6 seconds).

5. Yeah I saw that. Kar98 is known as "clone_rizzo" on these boards. I was able to recreate that glitch (kind of... see #10) but I can't see it being done in a SS run. I'll definately include it in my next segmented run if someone doesn't beat me to it.

6. It's as soon as you go to the Slums from what I just tested. I bugged out the game and I'm stuck in an infinite cut scene, but I'm sure it could be done. I don't know if you can skip straight ahead to Bohdi though. Chapter 2 doesn't occur until after you talk to Gaelen Bayle, and skipping chapters tends not to bode well for being able to complete the game. It may save you a trip to Bayle's, since you need to visit him again to kill him if you side with Bohdi. I will test this further and see if I can get anything out of it.
Animals can't initiate dialog, but they can be forced into it like anyone else. Bummer.

7. That's an awesome idea.

8. For the Thieves, you only have to see mook die. Mabye if you kill her instead of letting the vampire do it...
Oh sweet, you can kill her yourself and it skips the whole cutscene and dialog of waiting for Lassal. Awesome.

9. If I remember correctly, it only lasts for 20 seconds.
Nope, it only lasts for 12 seconds. I have been thinking of ways to get more potions of speed. I seem to remember some of the thieves outside the Guild Hall having one each, but they immediately use it when they see you. I'm working on finding a way of getting them before they see me.

10. Yeah, one can wait upstairs in the spike room while the other finishes his dialogs. While one kills him, the other can get ready to stake him and run out. This one is especially nice because the spike room offers an easy way to get killed to avoid "you must gather your party" problems.

I accidentally kept Imoen outside of the dungeon by doing the dialog glitch to skip the cut scene. When I skipped the cut scene, I REALLY skipped the cut scene. Irenicus and the shadow theives weren't there. The wizards didn't appear. Best of all Imoen stayed in my party. She also kept her unremovable "Immune to death" belt. I kind of wanted to continue with the game to see if I could get a second imoen in Bohdi's spellhold dungeon.

11. I will definatly try this. Most locked doors have the same message when trying to lockpick them. One that doesn't is Mae'var's lock box. Another is the door in Suldanessalar.

12. I think the drow will be innately hostile unless the trigger to turn into a drow is set. I'll check though.

13. Yeah, that's a good idea. The cast times are the same IIRC. I didn't dare leave the shadows, as a lot of the vampires/grim warders would kick my ass if they saw me.

14. Yeah, these are some serious improvements. The question is, who will apply them all to a new run the fastest?

15. I saw that. It looks like a lot of preparation went into that. Mabye, just mabye, with enough lucky summons one could pull that off. But I don't think the dungeon level 1 took very much time anyways.

16. Hmm, that is a good idea for a segmented run. They seem to occasionally drop random high level scrolls. They are a pain to kill, but I think some well placed traps should knock them out before they can cast.

17. I read what DAMURDOC said about jumping that gate, and so I tried it myself. I found that the gates are not the problem. You don't even have to jump them. Just convince the guard you're not a monster and he'll let you in the first one. The second one is either unlocked or pickable. The real problem is the door. The part you click on to enter a doorway isn't there until you open the door, and the door can't be opened except by summoning the avatar (pending research).

Wow man, thanks a bunch for all these ideas. This is exactly what I was hoping for when I posted on these boards. I'm definitely going to have to take a crack at another segmented run.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2008-12-04 07:22:56 am

2008-12-04 06:55:55 am

Yay.

Didn't realise kar98 was clone_rizzo. Feel very daft now I do, because I messaged him on youtube saying words to the effect of 'wow man, these tricks are awesome. Did you know there's a run on SDA? You should come post there, you'd be helpful.' Oh, the contempt he'll feel when he reads that message Tongue

Apparently the cutscene skipping trick used when leaving Irenicus's dungeon works for any cutscene. So use it in the sword room and... well, I can't really think of anywhere else to be honest, but I'm sure there's somewhere it'll be useful. Actually, how about the cutscenes in Spellhold that happen at the end of chapters 1 and 2? Your characters have to be on the map somewhere during them, and what would be insanely awesome is if you could take control of them and take the portal to the underdark during the cutscene. Probably won't work, and even if it does it's likely to break the game so much it becomes unwinnable, but worth a look.

I figure if I throw out enough crazy, dubious ideas, eventually one of them will actually work and I'll be a hero Wink

Re 15: I don't think it'd take too long to set up. Four of the characters are in a default square formation so they can all be put in place in one go. Then you've just got to position the other two manually. Summons, three move orders, cast polymorph self, do the polymorph. Should be able to be done reliably and save a few seconds, especially since you'll have you and Imoen both casting Monster Summoning. By my reckoning you could be through the portal under 30 seconds from the moment you cast Find Familiar, whereas in the current run it takes 50 seconds.

On the other hand, I've never actually tried doing a polymorph-teleport, so maybe it's much harder to get it to work than I realise.

Yay.

Didn't realise kar98 was clone_rizzo. Feel very daft now I do, because I messaged him on youtube saying words to the effect of 'wow man, these tricks are awesome. Did you know there's a run on SDA? You should come post there, you'd be helpful.' Oh, the contempt he'll feel when he reads that message :P

Apparently the cutscene skipping trick used when leaving Irenicus's dungeon works for any cutscene. So use it in the sword room and... well, I can't really think of anywhere else to be honest, but I'm sure there's somewhere it'll be useful. Actually, how about the cutscenes in Spellhold that happen at the end of chapters 1 and 2? Your characters have to be on the map somewhere during them, and what would be insanely awesome is if you could take control of them and take the portal to the underdark [i]during the cutscene[/i]. Probably won't work, and even if it does it's likely to break the game so much it becomes unwinnable, but worth a look.

I figure if I throw out enough crazy, dubious ideas, eventually one of them will actually work and I'll be a hero ;)

Re 15: I don't think it'd take too long to set up. Four of the characters are in a default square formation so they can all be put in place in one go. Then you've just got to position the other two manually. Summons, three move orders, cast polymorph self, do the polymorph. Should be able to be done reliably and save a few seconds, especially since you'll have you and Imoen both casting Monster Summoning. By my reckoning you could be through the portal under 30 seconds from the moment you cast Find Familiar, whereas in the current run it takes 50 seconds.

On the other hand, I've never actually tried doing a polymorph-teleport, so maybe it's much harder to get it to work than I realise.

julien

2008-12-04 07:06:03 am

clone_rizzo also posted his videos in the BG2 thread, including descriptions on how to reproduce these glitches.
You probably need to dig deep into the BG2 thread though.

I think DAMURDOC also used quite a bunch of clone rizzos tricks in his previous run.

ExplodingCabbage

2008-12-04 07:43:11 am

Ignore this post. I posted a stupid idea that definitely wouldn't work and have now edited it away.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2008-12-04 04:44:22 pm

2008-12-04 03:27:53 pm

Another idea: might teleport field, with some luck manipulation, be quicker than familiar/polymorph teleporting?

Edit: Also, is Irenicus in the tree immune to death magic? There's time to hit him with a Chromatic Orb before his defences go up. Alternatively, place skull traps near him in advance so that when you get teleported over to him during the cutscene, you set them off and he dies. I wonder if the same thing could be done in hell?

And can Bodhi/Lassal be killed by undead turning by a sufficiently powerful cleric (i.e. by one levelled up by abusing XP glitches ;))?

Edit 2: And wouldn't saving in the area with Irenicus's dragon and then chucking a chromatic orb at him and reloading every time it fails until you pass the magic resistance and the save be a faster way to get the goblet than dropping all your items and picking them back up again? This assuming his resistance is under 100% and that his save bonuses are low enough that it's possible for him to fail the save. Otherwise finger of death surely has a chance of working?

Edit 3: Is there a ruling from the admins on whether the bonus CD merchants are allowed? Robe of Vecna would speed things up a lot, and so might Vhailor's Helm.

Another idea: might teleport field, with some luck manipulation, be quicker than familiar/polymorph teleporting?

Edit: Also, is Irenicus in the tree immune to death magic? There's time to hit him with a Chromatic Orb before his defences go up. Alternatively, place skull traps near him in advance so that when you get teleported over to him during the cutscene, you set them off and he dies. I wonder if the same thing could be done in hell?

And can Bodhi/Lassal be killed by undead turning by a sufficiently powerful cleric (i.e. by one levelled up by abusing XP glitches ;))?

Edit 2: And wouldn't saving in the area with Irenicus's dragon and then chucking a chromatic orb at him and reloading every time it fails until you pass the magic resistance and the save be a faster way to get the goblet than dropping all your items and picking them back up again? This assuming his resistance is under 100% and that his save bonuses are low enough that it's possible for him to fail the save. Otherwise finger of death surely has a chance of working?

Edit 3: Is there a ruling from the admins on whether the bonus CD merchants are allowed? Robe of Vecna would speed things up a lot, and so might Vhailor's Helm.

Smilge

Edit history:

Smilge: 2008-12-04 05:58:08 pm

2008-12-04 05:52:12 pm

Teleport field only affects hostiles unfortunately.

Irenicus in the tree is immune to death magic.

Lassal probably could be killed by a cleric, but I'm not sure if it would be much quicker if you had to use XP glitches to get one. Lassal appears to be level 8, but I don't know much about the turn undead tables. Bohdi has to give her dialog before she dies, so instant death spells wouldn't work.

I actually have been looking into a way to kill that dragon quickly (under the 40 seconds it takes to drop my needed equipment). He starts out with a blue circle, so you can talk lock him. However, he's pretty powerful. He's got a save vs spells of 6 (so chromatic orb is out). Finger of death and other death magic should work, assuming I could get a scroll of it. If I was able to keep Imoen and Yoshimo, the three of us could lay a couple traps each and probably kill him as soon as he turned hostile. Also, feeblemind will make him completely unresponsive. I wanted to backstab him to death, but he's immune to backstab. His armor class is -17, so wailing on him with a bunch of characters isn't a fast way of knocking out his 200 hit points. I think a lucky death spell will be the way to go, if I can find one.
I have been focusing mostly on a single segment run, so of course I won't risk a lucky failed save.

I hope that the bonus CD merchants would be allowed. With Throne of Bhaal installed the extra merchants are unlocked, so I would have to either uninstall ToB or pretend they aren't there.

Edit: Wow, feeblemind may be the kick ass game breaking spell we've been looking for. I just broke the Irenicus fight in the tree. I cast feeblemind on him as soon as I could get out of dialog and he didn't cast a single spell. I backstabbed him to 1 hp (his minimum) and then removed the feeblemind. He went straight to the "You've killed me..." dialog, and not even his contingencies got off. I wonder where else this could be used.

Teleport field only affects hostiles unfortunately.

Irenicus in the tree is immune to death magic.

Lassal probably could be killed by a cleric, but I'm not sure if it would be much quicker if you had to use XP glitches to get one. Lassal appears to be level 8, but I don't know much about the turn undead tables. Bohdi has to give her dialog before she dies, so instant death spells wouldn't work.

I actually have been looking into a way to kill that dragon quickly (under the 40 seconds it takes to drop my needed equipment). He starts out with a blue circle, so you can talk lock him. However, he's pretty powerful. He's got a save vs spells of 6 (so chromatic orb is out). Finger of death and other death magic should work, assuming I could get a scroll of it. If I was able to keep Imoen and Yoshimo, the three of us could lay a couple traps each and probably kill him as soon as he turned hostile. Also, feeblemind will make him completely unresponsive. I wanted to backstab him to death, but he's immune to backstab. His armor class is -17, so wailing on him with a bunch of characters isn't a fast way of knocking out his 200 hit points. I think a lucky death spell will be the way to go, if I can find one.
I have been focusing mostly on a single segment run, so of course I won't risk a lucky failed save.

I hope that the bonus CD merchants would be allowed. With Throne of Bhaal installed the extra merchants are unlocked, so I would have to either uninstall ToB or pretend they aren't there.

Edit: Wow, feeblemind may be the kick ass game breaking spell we've been looking for. I just broke the Irenicus fight in the tree. I cast feeblemind on him as soon as I could get out of dialog and he didn't cast a single spell. I backstabbed him to 1 hp (his minimum) and then removed the feeblemind. He went straight to the "You've killed me..." dialog, and not even his contingencies got off. I wonder where else this could be used.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2008-12-04 06:31:15 pm

2008-12-04 06:17:14 pm

So I think the things left to test are:

1. Does the speed bonus from being polymorphed into a wolf stack with haste?
2. Is it possible to go to the graveyard in chapter 1, and if so does Bodhi appear and what happens if you ally with her while still in chapter 1?
3. Can Irenicus be killed with skull traps during the cutscene immediately after killing the parasite guardians?
4. What happens if you use the cutscene skipping glitch with the cutscenes at spellhold at the end of chapters 1 and 2?
5. Can you skip turning into a Drow by using Viconia?
6. Can the invincible Irenicus at the tree of life be harmed by assassin poison (or any other means you might think of) and if so does he have the combat Irenicus's death script or does he just die?
7. Can Irenicus be killed with skull traps when he appears in the cutscene in hell?
8. Finally, another idea: if you kill Gaelan Bayle with attribute drain in chapter 1 or 2, does he drop his key?
9. And another idea: by poisoning yourself before killing Irenicus in hell and having a contingency set to skull trap yourself at low health, could you wipe out Elliseme and those irritating elves during the final cutscene? It could potentially break the script and speed things up, but mostly I want to see it just for the lulz, even if it turns out to be worthless and doesn't feature in the final run.

Nice find with Feeblemind, by the way.

Out of curiosity: what happens if you use attribute drain to kill Bodhi in Chapter 6 or Irenicus (in either form) at the tree of life? Does the game just become unwinnable?

So I think the things left to test are:

1. Does the speed bonus from being polymorphed into a wolf stack with haste?
2. Is it possible to go to the graveyard in chapter 1, and if so does Bodhi appear and what happens if you ally with her while still in chapter 1?
3. Can Irenicus be killed with skull traps during the cutscene immediately after killing the parasite guardians?
4. What happens if you use the cutscene skipping glitch with the cutscenes at spellhold at the end of chapters 1 and 2?
5. Can you skip turning into a Drow by using Viconia?
6. Can the invincible Irenicus at the tree of life be harmed by assassin poison (or any other means you might think of) and if so does he have the combat Irenicus's death script or does he just die?
7. Can Irenicus be killed with skull traps when he appears in the cutscene in hell?
8. Finally, another idea: if you kill Gaelan Bayle with attribute drain in chapter 1 or 2, does he drop his key?
9. And another idea: by poisoning yourself before killing Irenicus in hell and having a contingency set to skull trap yourself at low health, could you wipe out Elliseme and those irritating elves during the final cutscene? It could potentially break the script and speed things up, but mostly I want to see it just for the lulz, even if it turns out to be worthless and doesn't feature in the final run.

Nice find with Feeblemind, by the way.

Out of curiosity: what happens if you use attribute drain to kill Bodhi in Chapter 6 or Irenicus (in either form) at the tree of life? Does the game just become unwinnable?

Smilge

Edit history:

Smilge: 2008-12-04 10:51:13 pm

2008-12-04 08:11:26 pm

1. From what I see, the polymorph self spell has two effects. One is the obvious shape change, the other is haste. Every shapeshifted form from the polymorph self menu is hasted (haste symbol in the portrait and everything). It doesn't appear to stack.
Edit: Woah... I was trying it out with the shapechange forms, and iron golem HAULS ASS. He's huge and hard to maneuver, not to mention a 9th level spell, but I'll find a place for it I'm sure.

2. Bohdi does not appear. The messenger to tell you of Bohdi's existance doesn't appear either.

3. Hm... I'll check and edit this.
Edit: LOL YES! That's awesome. All the dialog finishes and then he says "You killed me...." as soon as you get control again.

4. I'm 99% sure that nothing will happen. I've been looking through the game with "Near Infinity" explorer, and I think the maps that dreams are placed in are different than the playable ones. They don't have any exits. I'll need to double check to make sure there's no dream that can be exploited.

5. I'll check and edit this, though it's a very long shot.

6. The Invincible irenicus can be killed lots of ways, but he doesn't trigger any scripts.

7. Good idea, I'll edit this after I check.

Edit: Having some troubles with this. Irenicus as he appears has 96 HP and cannot die. He turns into a slayer with 217 HP maximum. Once the slayer hits 1 hp (or dies from attribute drain) Jon appears again and is triggered to start the endgame cutscene.

The problem is that even though I get Jon to 1 hp, he regenerates (2 hp a second) before becoming slayer. The slayer appears as "Near Death" but is regenerating HP. I tried to lay some that hit him after he becomes slayer, but he regenerates very quickly. I'm thinking
Thief traps will work better. Skull traps at this level only do like 15 damage if he saves vs spell.

Edit2: Wow, theif traps are the key. I laid about 7 (I thought they wouldn't go off until he became slayer, so 217 damage to deal). They went off as soon as he appeared, knocking him to 1 hp. They continued to tick for damage, negating his regen. After he turned into slayer, they were enough to kill him. It's much quicker than the current brain suck strategy, and it saves my limited wish and time stop scroll for elsewhere.

8. Yes, he does. He carries the key from the first moment you meet him. I hadn't found an easy way of killing him with attribute drain. Mabye a feeblemind + limited wish shapechange...

9. Lol... Sure I'll give it a shot. Having trouble living long enough to make it to the elf cutscene. I'll work on it tomorrow mabye.

I killed Irenicus with attribute drain on the tree of life. The game could not continue. Bohdi might work, since you do kill her. If her bat form spawns then it shouldn't be a problem.

1. From what I see, the polymorph self spell has two effects. One is the obvious shape change, the other is haste. Every shapeshifted form from the polymorph self menu is hasted (haste symbol in the portrait and everything). It doesn't appear to stack.
Edit: Woah... I was trying it out with the shapechange forms, and iron golem HAULS ASS. He's huge and hard to maneuver, not to mention a 9th level spell, but I'll find a place for it I'm sure.

2. Bohdi does not appear. The messenger to tell you of Bohdi's existance doesn't appear either.

3. Hm... I'll check and edit this.
Edit: LOL YES! That's awesome. All the dialog finishes and then he says "You killed me...." as soon as you get control again.

4. I'm 99% sure that nothing will happen. I've been looking through the game with "Near Infinity" explorer, and I think the maps that dreams are placed in are different than the playable ones. They don't have any exits. I'll need to double check to make sure there's no dream that can be exploited.

5. I'll check and edit this, though it's a very long shot.

6. The Invincible irenicus can be killed lots of ways, but he doesn't trigger any scripts.

7. Good idea, I'll edit this after I check.

Edit: Having some troubles with this. Irenicus as he appears has 96 HP and cannot die. He turns into a slayer with 217 HP maximum. Once the slayer hits 1 hp (or dies from attribute drain) Jon appears again and is triggered to start the endgame cutscene.

The problem is that even though I get Jon to 1 hp, he regenerates (2 hp a second) before becoming slayer. The slayer appears as "Near Death" but is regenerating HP. I tried to lay some that hit him after he becomes slayer, but he regenerates very quickly. I'm thinking 
Thief traps will work better. Skull traps at this level only do like 15 damage if he saves vs spell.

Edit2: Wow, theif traps are the key. I laid about 7 (I thought they wouldn't go off until he became slayer, so 217 damage to deal). They went off as soon as he appeared, knocking him to 1 hp. They continued to tick for damage, negating his regen. After he turned into slayer, they were enough to kill him. It's much quicker than the current brain suck strategy, and it saves my limited wish and time stop scroll for elsewhere.

8. Yes, he does. He carries the key from the first moment you meet him. I hadn't found an easy way of killing him with attribute drain. Mabye a feeblemind + limited wish shapechange...

9. Lol... Sure I'll give it a shot. Having trouble living long enough to make it to the elf cutscene. I'll work on it tomorrow mabye.

I killed Irenicus with attribute drain on the tree of life. The game could not continue. Bohdi might work, since you do kill her. If her bat form spawns then it shouldn't be a problem.

ExplodingCabbage

2008-12-05 02:33:10 am

Two suggestions:
* Play as a human bounty hunter and dual class and you'll have better traps (only saves time if Imoen has polymorph self at the beginning, though)
* Do you need to use Feeblemind to take out Gaelan Bayle? Can't you stop him leaving using the dialogue stalling trick?

ExplodingCabbage

2008-12-05 04:31:04 am

Just downloaded NearInfinity. Don't really understand it all yet, but just from my initial look at the areas it seems that AR0011 is a dream area from Chapter 2 and that it contains the door to the area where you fight the avatar of Bhaal in a dream later. Potential for serious sequence breaking with a cutscene skip? Maybe I'm understanding it wrong, though.

Edit: Nevermind I'm wrong. It contains a door to an area that doesn't exist.

Smilge

2008-12-05 09:02:36 am

Imoen doesn't have polymorph self. Yoshimo is a bounty hunter and I'm pretty sure I get to keep him if I wall hop into underdark. He doesn't abandon you until Irenicus appears, and Irenicus never appears.

Feeblemind should be quicker, as I can't dialog him while I'm shapeshifted. It would mean switching in and out and in and out of Mind Flayer form while my crummy THAC0 tries to hit him.

Edit: Crap, his Save vs Spells is -1. Feeblemind has a -2 pentalty, making his effective save vs spells 1. I don't know if the spell will land if he rolls a 1, or if he would need to roll lower than a 1 for the spell to land. I guess I could get jaheria to doom him, if she's alive at this point.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2008-12-05 09:18:26 am

2008-12-05 09:11:40 am

Quote from Smilge:

Feeblemind should be quicker, as I can't dialog him while I'm shapeshifted.

No, but someone else in the party can.

And meanwhile, Jaheira (or Minsc) can bless and chant you to help the THAC0 and maybe Imoen can hit you with improved haste from a scroll (if you have more than 1 attack per round in mindflayer form and if it would save more time than it would take to put the scroll in the quick item slot).

Another idea - look up the mindflayer attack in NearInfinity if you know how (I don't) and see if it uses a proficiency.