Alice: Madness Returns

TheVoid

2012-04-28 01:44:34 pm

Cool, dude. The run looks pretty good, seems you're quite consistent at stuff. Looking forward to the marathon run Wink

Blood Thunder

2013-02-11 05:54:55 am

Bumping this old thread :). I first did a playthrough of this game last year and always thought that it would make for an interesting speedrun. Anyways, now that I'm trying to expand the games that I speedrun, I'd decided to pick up this one (among others).

I plan on doing SS runs with just pure newgame (not newgame+) as I feel its more in the spirit of speedrunning to start a completely fresh file, but had a few questions about the differences. From my understanding, the only difference is that you keep all weapon upgrades and collectables? I was also wondering if there was any other "newgame" runs out there to compete with time wise. The route should be very similar to newgame+ but since i'll need to collect a certain amount of teeth, it will obviously be a bit slower.

zawj

2013-02-15 04:08:41 pm

There are some more differences between NG and NG+.
- you start with 8 max points of health and gain one after beating each chapter;
- choosing a different dress has no additional effects in gameplay;
- some activities are blocked until the game tells you how to do them - most noticeably dodging isn't possible before obtaining vorpal blade.

As you can see it's mostly minor stuff.

I haven't found any NG runs of the game yet.

z1mb0bw4y

2013-02-15 08:39:18 pm

Gets the cake.

Quote from Blood Thunder:

Bumping this old thread :). I first did a playthrough of this game last year and always thought that it would make for an interesting speedrun. Anyways, now that I'm trying to expand the games that I speedrun, I'd decided to pick up this one (among others).

I plan on doing SS runs with just pure newgame (not newgame+) as I feel its more in the spirit of speedrunning to start a completely fresh file, but had a few questions about the differences. From my understanding, the only difference is that you keep all weapon upgrades and collectables? I was also wondering if there was any other "newgame" runs out there to compete with time wise. The route should be very similar to newgame+ but since i'll need to collect a certain amount of teeth, it will obviously be a bit slower.

I did a couple of new game runs, but I'm not sure I ever kept a note of what my times were, and I certainly don't have them recorded. The only difference is that you keep all weapons and collectables, yes. However, the route changes slightly for NG vs NG+ for things like having to "go back" for the hobby horse after the wall-climb on ch2.

If you need help with anything, feel free to ask. I'm more than willing to provide videos of tricks and whatnot, and will point out anything you might be missing if you post a preliminary run.

[quote="Blood Thunder"]Bumping this old thread :). I first did a playthrough of this game last year and always thought that it would make for an interesting speedrun. Anyways, now that I'm trying to expand the games that I speedrun, I'd decided to pick up this one (among others).

I plan on doing SS runs with just pure newgame (not newgame+) as I feel its more in the spirit of speedrunning to start a completely fresh file, but had a few questions about the differences. From my understanding, the only difference is that you keep all weapon upgrades and collectables? I was also wondering if there was any other "newgame" runs out there to compete with time wise. The route should be very similar to newgame+ but since i'll need to collect a certain amount of teeth, it will obviously be a bit slower. [/quote]

I did a couple of new game runs, but I'm not sure I ever kept a note of what my times were, and I certainly don't have them recorded. The only difference is that you keep all weapons and collectables, yes. However, the route changes slightly for NG vs NG+ for things like having to "go back" for the hobby horse after the wall-climb on ch2.

If you need help with anything, feel free to ask. I'm more than willing to provide videos of tricks and whatnot, and will point out anything you might be missing if you post a preliminary run.

Blood Thunder

2013-02-16 04:08:12 pm

Thanks for the info and the offer to help. I'll probably just watch the NG+ runs and learn the route that way (besides the slight changes). As far as the weapon upgrading goes, I was considering just using all teeth picked up on the vorpal blade, then save the rest for the teapot? I'm not sure how many teeth you can easily pickup along the way, guess I should just do a run and see :3

Eroy

Edit history:

Eroy: 2013-03-26 06:44:56 pm

2013-03-26 06:40:47 pm

Hi,
I think this game can be good for speed run but the discution on NG or NG+ is too bad for the community...
So, yesterday i begin to try running this game and i discovered a good little and easy glitch today.
(hd)
I think with that you can running only in NG now (best practice for speedrun). Cheesy

(don't worry, your dress changes with the story because it's the story dress but you conserve all bonuses ;])

ps : don't forget to open the equipment menu when you enter in the new created game else you will have juste the skin changed

Blood Thunder

2013-03-27 04:24:22 am

That is a neat glitch, but it completely ruins the idea of the NG category. At that point, you're just doing NG+ run and labelling it NG.

Eroy

2013-03-27 05:24:07 am

Hum, it's really au NG because the skin is bugged, no teeth etc..
In my opinion it s the best for a potential single segment, no mercy for the game in speed run. mouahahah Cheesy

But yes it's ruins the gameplay because you have unlimited ammo and bouble damage in madness, it's for a run, not for a normal game. ^^

Blood Thunder

2013-03-27 06:31:28 am

That might technically still be "NG" but if you're going to do NG runs, then do a true NG run. Start up the game, create a NG, and go. If you want to do this trick, just do NG+ as that's what it really amounts to.

TheVoid

2013-03-27 07:25:42 am

You're just trying to cheat the system, Eroy! Wink

Eroy

Edit history:

Eroy: 2013-03-27 07:39:58 am

Eroy: 2013-03-27 07:35:08 am

Eroy: 2013-03-27 07:34:38 am

2013-03-27 07:30:05 am

I'm just trying to fly in the system (at the end of that video :D)

at 32" it's possible to jump left for go to the end, but i had just 1 success. I try to pass the killer wall each time..

zawj

2013-03-31 10:41:25 am

Don't know if it's worth it, as the nearest death barrier is probably too far away from the slide. Places like the one you've found unfortunately are useless and should be avoided, as falling down into the nothingness forces respawning all way back at the last save point.

Now a question about movement: I already know it's possible to cancel dodging with shrinking, and I'm wondering whether it's worth it to do so even when I'm not just changing direction. For me it looks a bit faster - ending the dodge normally slows her down for about 8 frames and she doesn't start moving as fast as it's possible immediately. Canceling the dodge also seems to cancel the slowing down animation. What do you think about it? Small comparsion video, slowed down 3 times:

By the way, z1mb0bw4y, is your nightmare NG+ PB mentioned on your website the fastest run out there? I think I may have accidentally shattered it Tongue

zawj

2013-05-10 11:20:34 am

I've found some new shortcuts that can cut off at least 2 minutes, thought I'd share.

Two out of three lost soul lockers (the area where you need to stay close to the seahorse near to the end of chapter 2) can be sped up significantly. Video here.

Skipping the first one is quite hard, as it requires triggering hysteria and therefore it's timed. The invincibility time is long enough to reach and destroy the crate at the end (it's best to shoot it with the teapot from the last moving platform by aiming as high as it's possible). You'll still die after destroying the crate, that's fine - the next area and cutscenes are still going to load. Just remember to choose yes after the last one loads, where the game is also saved (indicated by an icon), because otherwise you'll respawn all way back before the first locker.

The darkness does 1.25 damage on normal, 1.875 on hard and 3.75 on nightmare.

It's better to disable post processing for the trick above, as the grayscale hysteria effect makes all the platforms impossible to see.

The third one is way easier - the nearest oyster is actually accessible from the first platform, even without the extra jump glitch. Interestingly, the darkness in this area is completely harmless unless the pirate is defeated. No need to wait for the seahorse.
Beware, the pirate will still try to attack you and while he can't go outside of the first platform, the "ding" slowdowns will still appear, and falling down means respawning at the start.

Now another skip, also in chapter 2, before the theatre's entrance. It's too far away to jump over the gap without shooting the clock switch earlier, but it's possible to respawn at the entrance by just trying to get there and falling down. However, it must depend on something else, and I don't know yet what. Video here.

Oh, and the first clock switch can also be skipped with the extra jump glitch without shooting it while it's down below.

That's all for now, hope these tricks will be helpful.

I've found some new shortcuts that can cut off at least 2 minutes, thought I'd share.

Two out of three lost soul lockers (the area where you need to stay close to the seahorse near to the end of chapter 2) can be sped up significantly. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuOzuepQE6U]Video here.[/url]

Skipping the first one is quite hard, as it requires triggering hysteria and therefore it's timed. The invincibility time is long enough to reach and destroy the crate at the end (it's best to shoot it with the teapot from the last moving platform by aiming as high as it's possible). You'll still die after destroying the crate, that's fine - the next area and cutscenes are still going to load. Just remember to choose yes [b]after[/b] the last one loads, where the game is also saved (indicated by an icon), because otherwise you'll respawn all way back before the first locker.

The darkness does 1.25 damage on normal, 1.875 on hard and 3.75 on nightmare.

It's better to disable post processing for the trick above, as the grayscale hysteria effect makes all the platforms impossible to see.

The third one is way easier - the nearest oyster is actually accessible from the first platform, even without the extra jump glitch. Interestingly, the darkness in this area [b]is completely harmless[/b] unless the pirate is defeated. No need to wait for the seahorse.
Beware, the pirate will still try to attack you and while he can't go outside of the first platform, the "ding" slowdowns will still appear, and falling down means respawning at the start.

Now another skip, also in chapter 2, before the theatre's entrance. It's too far away to jump over the gap without shooting the clock switch earlier, but it's possible to respawn at the entrance by just trying to get there and falling down. However, it must depend on something else, and I don't know yet what. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdkUVDl2lrY]Video here.[/url]

Oh, and the first clock switch can also be skipped with the extra jump glitch without shooting it while it's down below.

That's all for now, hope these tricks will be helpful.

TheVoid

Edit history:

TheVoid: 2013-05-10 02:58:12 pm

2013-05-10 02:57:54 pm

Very nice stuff Smiley

Quote:

Now another skip, also in chapter 2, before the theatre's entrance. It's too far away to jump over the gap without shooting the clock switch earlier, but it's possible to respawn at the entrance by just trying to get there and falling down. However, it must depend on something else, and I don't know yet what.

When you succeeded you hit the plank higher (Above the horizontal plank) compared to the first time you tried (Which was just below the horizontal plank), so I guess that must be it.

z1mb0bw4y

Edit history:

z1mb0bw4y: 2013-05-10 09:10:37 pm

2013-05-10 09:08:03 pm

Gets the cake.

I had been skipping the lockers in all of my runs, at least doing the first one on Nightmare difficulty. Didn't know about jumping that gap without activating the shoot-switch though, that's pretty nifty.

I think it's possible to skip the locker section all together by wall-climbing in the area just before it, and then continuing down the natural path to the end of the level. I was never quite able to make it work, but considering how large that room is (and how many wall-surfaces it has) I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be possible.

If you guys would like I can try to start putting together a video of ALL the skips I had found, including those I didn't use in SS runs because of how risky they are. It'll take me a few days to get it together, though.

Also I'd still like to get an IL table for this game put together. The full game is annoying to run due to the large number of negative glitches you encounter, but I think that an IL table would be fun and impressive once finished.

I had been skipping the lockers in all of my runs, at least doing the first one on Nightmare difficulty. Didn't know about jumping that gap without activating the shoot-switch though, that's pretty nifty.

I think it's possible to skip the locker section all together by wall-climbing in the area just before it, and then continuing down the natural path to the end of the level. I was never quite able to make it work, but considering how large that room is (and how many wall-surfaces it has) I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be possible.

If you guys would like I can try to start putting together a video of ALL the skips I had found, including those I didn't use in SS runs because of how risky they are. It'll take me a few days to get it together, though.

Also I'd still like to get an IL table for this game put together. The full game is annoying to run due to the large number of negative glitches you encounter, but I think that an IL table would be fun and impressive once finished.

zawj

2013-05-11 07:30:07 am

Finally found the option for making wall/flag/etc. wireframes visible. TheVoid, you're right, the flag that changes respawn position ends just below the plank.
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1T3NYVTBHb1NJdVU

z1mb0bw4y, I've been thinking of the same thing, but barely had any luck with wall climbing in any other area than the well known Tundraful one. I've managed to do some extra jumps, e.g. near the train just before weapon upgrades become available, but it was never enough to skip an area. To be honest I'm still wondering how exactly does it work. At first glance it does not look suspicious:
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1UmYyUzVLblZvVTA

There are also lots of separate areas that are close to each other, like most of chapter 3 or the end of chapter 2. If only the wall jumping was so easy (and possible in most places) SO MUCH time could be saved.

A compilation of all tricks in one place would be great, right now many of them are quite outdated and there's no full run that would show all of them.

I've found some more small skips, don't know if they're new but I haven't seen them anywhere else:
- skipping the oil spring cutscene in Vale of Tears - the flag which activates it can be avoided by going around, it's marked with green lines on the screenshots:
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1bmRmZzN0elFzRGM
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1cm5JOEtWVTFJelk
- safe spot on lava in the Dormouse section (video)
- chapter 3, the area before climbing and 2nd sidescroller - no need to pull the chain (video)
- chapter 5, in the undergrounds, one of the clock switch can be skipped (video)

Finally found the option for making wall/flag/etc. wireframes visible. TheVoid, you're right, the flag that changes respawn position ends just below the plank.
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1T3NYVTBHb1NJdVU

z1mb0bw4y, I've been thinking of the same thing, but barely had any luck with wall climbing in any other area than the well known Tundraful one. I've managed to do some extra jumps, e.g. near the train just before weapon upgrades become available, but it was never enough to skip an area. To be honest I'm still wondering how exactly does it work. At first glance it does not look suspicious:
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1UmYyUzVLblZvVTA

There are also lots of separate areas that are close to each other, like most of chapter 3 or the end of chapter 2. If only the wall jumping was so easy (and possible in most places) SO MUCH time could be saved.

A compilation of all tricks in one place would be great, right now many of them are quite outdated and there's no full run that would show all of them.

I've found some more small skips, don't know if they're new but I haven't seen them anywhere else:
- skipping the oil spring cutscene in Vale of Tears - the flag which activates it can be avoided by going around, it's marked with green lines on the screenshots:
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1bmRmZzN0elFzRGM
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B2Pq-J_P7aU1cm5JOEtWVTFJelk
- safe spot on lava in the Dormouse section [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNn8L2bxRc](video)[/url]
- chapter 3, the area before climbing and 2nd sidescroller - no need to pull the chain [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JYcZx5indo](video)[/url] 
- chapter 5, in the undergrounds, one of the clock switch can be skipped [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSUj8Bpbp8Y](video)[/url]

z1mb0bw4y

2013-05-11 07:04:12 pm

Gets the cake.

The biggest potential time-saver I could think of would be to enter ch. 5, and when you get to the point where you first fight a doll girl find a way to take the right path. You wind up coming back here later, so if we could just skip the left path we'd save a ton of time.

zawj

2013-05-12 03:41:42 am

These are two separate areas, the flag that takes you forward in the right path is not present when you visit the area the first time.

zawj

2013-05-19 12:11:34 pm

Got 2:24:47 in a NG+ nightmare RTA yesterday (also it's just 20 seconds slower than my previous individual chapter practice).

Ch1 - 26:14
Ch2 - 52:55 (26:41, PB is 20 secs faster)
Ch3 - 1:29:31 (36:36)
Ch4 - 1:52:02 (22:31)
Ch5 - 2:20:20 (28:18)
Ch6 - 2:24:47 (4:27)

I think I'm going to start working on a proper run I could submit here. I'm so tempted to keep it single segment, but let's see how hard it is to get close to this time once again.

zawj

2013-07-28 03:15:41 pm

A handful of quite big skips has been found recently, shoutouts to all guys from IRC for the awesome work.

Chapter 1:
- Crockery skip: very easy to do

- new Dormouse route, using the entrance gate and small ledge near the cage with a valve - no more walking on lava

Chapter 2:
- lost soul lockers are DOWN!

I feel like getting sub 2:14 is a matter of time now.
Chapter 5:
- ceiling after the first dollhead minigame is accessible from the slide (edge jump trick is needed) - saves at least a minute

- another ceiling route, harder to access and only saves up to 20 seconds, but at least looks pretty cool Smiley

z1mb0bw4y

2013-07-28 06:27:49 pm

Gets the cake.

Brilliant skips! I tried for so long to skip the sailor graves section, so I'm ECSTATIC that someone finally managed it!

zawj

2013-08-22 03:46:02 pm

A huge out of bounds skip has been found in chapter 4, it saves around 6 minutes. Shoutouts to frazse!
http://www.twitch.tv/frazse/c/2798398

TheVoid

2013-08-22 11:12:17 pm

Some very cool stuff! Awww whole chapter 4 is my favorite... Smiley

zawj

2013-08-25 08:55:18 am

Tundraful skip, the new edition. Found in collaboration with frazse. It can lead to different places:
- if it's messed up early, after just getting on top of the walls, one can still try to hit the death barrier on the left and respawn in the same place the old skip did
- if you make it far but hit the big vertical death barrier, you'll respawn on top of the slide
- if you do everything just fine, you'll respawn before the small ice slides

The ceiling over the fighting area is all solid.

Beware, it's possible to get stuck inside of walls because of the way they spawn (i.e. on top of you).

And the weirdest thing - mess up the very last jump and you'll land in an unused, very glitchy part that was supposed to be a swimming section Shocked

lillbrorsan

2013-09-19 01:43:54 pm

Truljin @ Twitch

This game is so much fun, will probably start running it Cheesy