Zelda Ocarina of Time By TSA [locked]

2012-11-30 09:17:43 pm

Does anyone know where I can view the Zelda Ocarina of Time By TSA?
The 4:57 run to be specific.
And does anyone know if TSA sent runs from here to Twin Galaxies?

Thread title:

Alko

Edit history:

Alko: 2012-12-01 05:12:14 am

2012-12-01 05:11:57 am

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

I know I have it on my hard drive at home, and I'm pretty sure it's hidden on archive.org somewhere (only I don't have the endurance to go looking for it). If you want, you can PM me your data transfer method of choice and I'll get the vid to your end ^^

DJS

2012-12-01 06:27:55 am

torch slug since 2006

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6250606584021098718

Quote:

This took forever to download...And upload... However, it was all worth it because you will never see a more amazing Zelda speed run in your life! Best part: This video is free! Cheesy

Enjoy!

JackintheBox333

2012-12-01 07:43:25 am

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

The archive page of TSA's 4:57 was removed along with the video. However what is amusing is that Archive.org crawled their own pages, so in this case, you have an archive of an archive page, though sadly, the video file was not saved. However the comments, in particular the 25k hours of playing in 3 years comment, are saved for posterity.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090311164122/http://www.archive.org/details/ZeldaOoT_SS_457

Emptyeye

2012-12-01 08:29:59 am

Talk to the Hand

To actually answer the question about Twin Galaxies, I know for a fact that he sent the run that was on SDA prior to the 4:57 (A 5:04 by SDA timing, I think it was 5:09 by TG timing). I'm pretty sure he also sent his 35:50 Legend of Zelda run to TG.

To be clear, note that I DON'T know if either of those runs contained splicing, nor do I know if he actually sent the spliced runs (The 4:57 and the 33:XX on LoZ) to TG.

JackintheBox333

2012-12-01 08:59:56 am

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

CosmoWright streamed himself watching TSA's 5:25, 5:04, and 4:57 OOT runs. Both the 5:25 and the 5:04 have confirmed splices, including one spot which is particularly egregious in the Haunted Wasteland in both the 5:25 and the 5:04. The 4:57 has no confirmed splices that I am aware of.

starfoxleader

2012-12-01 10:07:07 am

Thanks for the replies everyone.
So the 4:57 did use the crouch stab. That means TSA's Twin Galaxies record is invalid.
Crouch stabing is banned at Twin Galaxies. I came here to find TSA's OOT run to be sure.

starfoxleader

2012-12-01 10:19:05 am

Quote from Emptyeye:

To actually answer the question about Twin Galaxies, I know for a fact that he sent the run that was on SDA prior to the 4:57 (A 5:04 by SDA timing, I think it was 5:09 by TG timing). I'm pretty sure he also sent his 35:50 Legend of Zelda run to TG.

To be clear, note that I DON'T know if either of those runs contained splicing, nor do I know if he actually sent the spliced runs (The 4:57 and the 33:XX on LoZ) to TG.

I know TSA didn't send the Zelda 1 33:xx to Twin Galaxies.
The 4:57 was sent because the time starts whenn the file starts, which is like 3 minutes. 4:57 plus 3 minutes = 5 hours.
So the 4:57 was sent.
Do you whoever found the cheating here at SDA should contact Twin Galaxies about TSA's speed runs since you guys found the cheating?

zallard1

2012-12-01 11:08:09 am

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

Quote from starfoxleader:

Do you whoever found the cheating here at SDA should contact Twin Galaxies about TSA's speed runs since you guys found the cheating?

No, because it's pointless to tell TG to do something and expect them to follow through with it. Also, TG already has quite a few blatantly false records in their database.

JackintheBox333

2012-12-01 11:11:09 am

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

1. As far as anybody knows, the 4:57 Ocarina of Time speedrun IS legit and unspliced. None of the map screens that signify a splice appear and there is no Haunted Wasteland music inconsistency.

2. There is actually a glitchless category for Ocarina of Time, and while it is very out there, the crouch stab is not actually considered a glitch. In fact the entire category seems to revolve around the techniques in TSA's 4:57. A paste bin is here with the rule set for glitchless: http://pastebin.com/1TTSAJSv

3. What is and is not allowed at Twin Galaxies is extremely inconsistent and often based on the strategies of the player who first submitted the game.

4. Twin Galaxies is realistically only an authority on old Arcade games, and only high score runs at that. Very few of the people who frequent SDA and SRL actually care about Twin Galaxies. Their records are, for the most part, ridiculously outdated or false.

5. I have no idea what is and is not banned on Ocarina of Time on Twin Galaxies, because their website has been down for well over a month now, so good luck trying to contact them.

1. As far as anybody knows, the 4:57 Ocarina of Time speedrun IS legit and unspliced. None of the map screens that signify a splice appear and there is no Haunted Wasteland music inconsistency.

2. There is actually a glitchless category for Ocarina of Time, and while it is very out there, the crouch stab is not actually considered a glitch. In fact the entire category seems to revolve around the techniques in TSA's 4:57. A paste bin is here with the rule set for glitchless: http://pastebin.com/1TTSAJSv

3. What is and is not allowed at Twin Galaxies is extremely inconsistent and often based on the strategies of the player who first submitted the game.

4. Twin Galaxies is realistically only an authority on old Arcade games, and only high score runs at that. Very few of the people who frequent SDA and SRL actually care about Twin Galaxies. Their records are, for the most part, ridiculously outdated or false.

5. I have no idea what is and is not banned on Ocarina of Time on Twin Galaxies, because their website has been down for well over a month now, so good luck trying to contact them.

starfoxleader

Edit history:

starfoxleader: 2012-12-01 01:14:51 pm

starfoxleader: 2012-12-01 01:13:34 pm

2012-12-01 01:12:29 pm

Quote from zallard1:

Quote from starfoxleader:

Do you whoever found the cheating here at SDA should contact Twin Galaxies about TSA's speed runs since you guys found the cheating?

No, because it's pointless to tell TG to do something and expect them to follow through with it. Also, TG already has quite a few blatantly false records in their database.

I see.
What other scores do you think may be false zallard?

Quote from JackintheBox333:

1. As far as anybody knows, the 4:57 Ocarina of Time speedrun IS legit and unspliced. None of the map screens that signify a splice appear and there is no Haunted Wasteland music inconsistency.

2. There is actually a glitchless category for Ocarina of Time, and while it is very out there, the crouch stab is not actually considered a glitch. In fact the entire category seems to revolve around the techniques in TSA's 4:57. A paste bin is here with the rule set for glitchless: http://pastebin.com/1TTSAJSv

3. What is and is not allowed at Twin Galaxies is extremely inconsistent and often based on the strategies of the player who first submitted the game.

4. Twin Galaxies is realistically only an authority on old Arcade games, and only high score runs at that. Very few of the people who frequent SDA and SRL actually care about Twin Galaxies. Their records are, for the most part, ridiculously outdated or false.

5. I have no idea what is and is not banned on Ocarina of Time on Twin Galaxies, because their website has been down for well over a month now, so good luck trying to contact them.

The former N64 ref Tim Stodden at Twin Galaxies banned the power crouch stab. I just want to be sure the challenge is successful so whoever re reviews the run won't waste their time.
All of the refs at Twin Galaxies are being replaced so that's why Tim is a former ref.

[quote="zallard1"][quote="starfoxleader"]Do you whoever found the cheating here at SDA should contact Twin Galaxies about TSA's speed runs since you guys found the cheating?[/quote]

No, because it's pointless to tell TG to do something and expect them to follow through with it. Also, TG already has quite a few blatantly false records in their database.[/quote]

I see. 
What other scores do you think may be false zallard?

[quote="JackintheBox333"]1. As far as anybody knows, the 4:57 Ocarina of Time speedrun IS legit and unspliced. None of the map screens that signify a splice appear and there is no Haunted Wasteland music inconsistency.

2. There is actually a glitchless category for Ocarina of Time, and while it is very out there, the crouch stab is not actually considered a glitch. In fact the entire category seems to revolve around the techniques in TSA's 4:57. A paste bin is here with the rule set for glitchless: http://pastebin.com/1TTSAJSv

3. What is and is not allowed at Twin Galaxies is extremely inconsistent and often based on the strategies of the player who first submitted the game.

4. Twin Galaxies is realistically only an authority on old Arcade games, and only high score runs at that. Very few of the people who frequent SDA and SRL actually care about Twin Galaxies. Their records are, for the most part, ridiculously outdated or false.

5. I have no idea what is and is not banned on Ocarina of Time on Twin Galaxies, because their website has been down for well over a month now, so good luck trying to contact them. [/quote]

The former N64 ref Tim Stodden at Twin Galaxies banned the power crouch stab.  I just want to be sure the challenge is successful so whoever re reviews the run won't waste their time. 
All of the refs at Twin Galaxies are being replaced so that's why Tim is a former ref.

Darkwing Duck

2012-12-01 03:21:36 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from starfoxleader:

Quote from zallard1:

Quote from starfoxleader:

Do you whoever found the cheating here at SDA should contact Twin Galaxies about TSA's speed runs since you guys found the cheating?

No, because it's pointless to tell TG to do something and expect them to follow through with it. Also, TG already has quite a few blatantly false records in their database.

I see.
What other scores do you think may be false zallard?

Quote from JackintheBox333:

1. As far as anybody knows, the 4:57 Ocarina of Time speedrun IS legit and unspliced. None of the map screens that signify a splice appear and there is no Haunted Wasteland music inconsistency.

2. There is actually a glitchless category for Ocarina of Time, and while it is very out there, the crouch stab is not actually considered a glitch. In fact the entire category seems to revolve around the techniques in TSA's 4:57. A paste bin is here with the rule set for glitchless: http://pastebin.com/1TTSAJSv

3. What is and is not allowed at Twin Galaxies is extremely inconsistent and often based on the strategies of the player who first submitted the game.

4. Twin Galaxies is realistically only an authority on old Arcade games, and only high score runs at that. Very few of the people who frequent SDA and SRL actually care about Twin Galaxies. Their records are, for the most part, ridiculously outdated or false.

5. I have no idea what is and is not banned on Ocarina of Time on Twin Galaxies, because their website has been down for well over a month now, so good luck trying to contact them.

The former N64 ref Tim Stodden at Twin Galaxies banned the power crouch stab. I just want to be sure the challenge is successful so whoever re reviews the run won't waste their time.
All of the refs at Twin Galaxies are being replaced so that's why Tim is a former ref.

Then it would be prudent to find what would be acceptable first with the new referees before doing much anything else.

If memory serves, TSA also sent his 33:34 LoZ run to TG. Might be wrong, though. That one spliced and segmented, as well. Got taken off of SDA last year.

Personally, I can't for certain claim falseness on LoZ TG records, but given the history of one of them, TSA, what I learned about referee policy, and the little bit of video that's available on the 31:37 or whatever the time was, I find the times not by Tom Votava to be dubious at best and likely not legitimate.

I have heard that there are some obvious times/scores that were impossible even by TAS standards on the TG leaderboards, but I don't know what particular games they might be.

[quote="starfoxleader"][quote="zallard1"][quote="starfoxleader"]Do you whoever found the cheating here at SDA should contact Twin Galaxies about TSA's speed runs since you guys found the cheating?[/quote]

No, because it's pointless to tell TG to do something and expect them to follow through with it. Also, TG already has quite a few blatantly false records in their database.[/quote]

I see. 
What other scores do you think may be false zallard?

[quote="JackintheBox333"]1. As far as anybody knows, the 4:57 Ocarina of Time speedrun IS legit and unspliced. None of the map screens that signify a splice appear and there is no Haunted Wasteland music inconsistency.

2. There is actually a glitchless category for Ocarina of Time, and while it is very out there, the crouch stab is not actually considered a glitch. In fact the entire category seems to revolve around the techniques in TSA's 4:57. A paste bin is here with the rule set for glitchless: http://pastebin.com/1TTSAJSv

3. What is and is not allowed at Twin Galaxies is extremely inconsistent and often based on the strategies of the player who first submitted the game.

4. Twin Galaxies is realistically only an authority on old Arcade games, and only high score runs at that. Very few of the people who frequent SDA and SRL actually care about Twin Galaxies. Their records are, for the most part, ridiculously outdated or false.

5. I have no idea what is and is not banned on Ocarina of Time on Twin Galaxies, because their website has been down for well over a month now, so good luck trying to contact them. [/quote]

The former N64 ref Tim Stodden at Twin Galaxies banned the power crouch stab.  I just want to be sure the challenge is successful so whoever re reviews the run won't waste their time. 
All of the refs at Twin Galaxies are being replaced so that's why Tim is a former ref.
[/quote]
Then it would be prudent to find what would be acceptable first with the new referees before doing much anything else.

If memory serves, TSA also sent his 33:34 LoZ run to TG.   Might be wrong, though.  That one spliced and segmented, as well.  Got taken off of SDA last year.

Personally, I can't for certain claim falseness on LoZ TG records, but given the history of one of them, TSA, what I learned about referee policy, and the little bit of video that's available on the 31:37 or whatever the time was, I find the times not by Tom Votava to be dubious at best and likely not legitimate.

I have heard that there are some obvious times/scores that were impossible even by TAS standards on the TG leaderboards, but I don't know what particular games they might be.

PJ

Edit history:

PJ: 2012-12-01 03:40:22 pm

2012-12-01 03:28:25 pm

Is PJ

Quote:

I have heard that there are some obvious times/scores that were impossible even by TAS standards on the TG leaderboards, but I don't know what particular games they might be.

Donkey Kong Country is one of the most famous examples.

Edit: I'd link to the thread where Tompa brought up all the evidence that it is a time that is either entirely fake or uses warps, but the TG forums have been destroyed/discontinued.

zallard1

2012-12-01 03:49:18 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

I remember sinister saying that the MTPO times that aren't Matt Turk's are also suspect. IIRC Don Flamenco's time was under 14.97, which meant the clock stop glitch was used (a glitch disallowed by TG). Sinister would probably know more about it; I'd bring up the scoreboards to show some of the times, but those (like the forums) are down.

PJ

2012-12-01 03:50:04 pm

Is PJ

There's also a SotN "Axe Armor" mode run done in under 2 minutes. I don't even know what that means.

starfoxleader

2012-12-01 08:18:16 pm

Hmmm.
Well, I have no choice but to go and challenge the OOT record myself!

CosmoWright

2012-12-04 01:49:07 am

the current accepted glitchless OoT definition has a run by ばね in 3:52:45.
the any% record is 21:26 by pydoyks.

starfoxleader

2012-12-04 09:55:42 pm

Ok
So the crouch stab was used, no splicing and is legit.
TG will have this run removed due to their rules on the crouch stab.
Thanks everyone!

JackintheBox333

2012-12-04 10:18:30 pm

Professional Shaq Fu Speedrunner

You are assuming that 1. Twin Galaxies even cares, 2. Twin Galaxies has that VHS tape or a copy of that run, 3. Twin Galaxies even exists anymore (their site is still down). But hey, if a rule was broken, good luck.

PJ

2012-12-04 10:49:15 pm

Is PJ

Yea the new TG will "make the video public" when it is challenged, but they don't have the video because they fired all the old staff and won't pay to have all the hundreds of thousands of scores shipped to them. So it won't get removed. Also, it is very very unlikely that they care, even if they do keep the old rules.

honorableJay

2012-12-05 05:18:13 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Quote from PJ:

...it is very very unlikely that they care....

Ironic that this is Guinness' choice for the "Official" game records keeper.

starfoxleader

Edit history:

starfoxleader: 2012-12-05 05:49:02 pm

2012-12-05 05:47:38 pm

Quote from PJ:

Yea the new TG will "make the video public" when it is challenged, but they don't have the video because they fired all the old staff and won't pay to have all the hundreds of thousands of scores shipped to them. So it won't get removed. Also, it is very very unlikely that they care, even if they do keep the old rules.

That's what I was afraid of.

Quote from JackintheBox333:

You are assuming that 1. Twin Galaxies even cares, 2. Twin Galaxies has that VHS tape or a copy of that run, 3. Twin Galaxies even exists anymore (their site is still down). But hey, if a rule was broken, good luck.

1. Twin Galaxies does (should) care because I e-mailed the ref who verified the run regarding this and the ref said the run can be challenged once I submit a score to the variation.
2. I don't know what happened to the VHS tape of the run. Someone must have it.
3. Twin Galaxies will come back. Yeah I'm going to need all the luck I can get to challenge this run.

starfoxleader

2012-12-05 05:50:10 pm

Is there a way to contact TSA?
The PM I sent him hasn't been responded to yet

zallard1

Edit history:

zallard1: 2012-12-05 07:59:14 pm

2012-12-05 07:16:55 pm

B+Left, Left, Up+B, ★

TBH, I think you'd be better off not submitting to TG anyways, especially since they're now charging 15 dollars to players for them to watch your runs (25 if the footage is over an hour). There's going to be even less people submitting to that site than there was already, which limits your competition to basically nothing.

Also instead of contacting TSA you should probably talk to one of the many other people that currently run this game. I guarantee you'll learn more about running OoT that way than by talking to TSA, even if you're only interested in running the glitchless category.

Paraxade

2012-12-05 07:41:13 pm

wait, TG charges you to submit runs to them? That's ridiculous, geez.