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ehm... what?
Not a walrus
This... might need a new category.
Amazing, need a new pants... and an US NES
A-M, how good are you on this? Cheesy I would want to meet you in a race, but I'm really a newbie! But if you are a good player, I can hook you up with Pro_JN Wink
Thanks Svenne thumbsup. Unfortunately I've never tried to perform this game. I like it because it was one of my first game. I remember me playing it with the booklet on my knees, searching the meaning of english words to understand what people said. I was 6 or 7 iirc. And that's why I enjoy to see cool things on this game, and I know that one day I'll try to speedrun it.
Solair, I think you had the right idea with 2-5-4 plus 3 magic containers. I think getting that the third one would be a bit faster than completing any of the palaces, not to mention much safer.

So for the fastest run (glitching plus up+A), it seems like finishing palace 2 only would be the way to go.
General Kong - Bullets and Bananas
Large. Skip. Glitches.
so pro u don't even know
Great find guys.

This was inevitable. All Zelda games are broken.
Make it so.
What did I just watch. That was awesome.
Haha, awesome inzult, thanks! I'llprobably  get back to concentrating on improving the no deaths, no warps variation as feasel seems to be challenging hard on that one.

However, I'm still a little confused as to what glitches would pass into the variation of Zelda II at sda where I have a 1:07.43 (no deaths, no warps), as e.g. the Thunderbird skip glitch is so "clean", while the Eastern Hyrule skip is not so "clean" Wink

It would be great if someone at sda, e.g. breakdown, could clarify if any glitches would be allowed in the current Zelda II no deaths, no warps variation, or if using any of them would warrant a new Zelda II category/variation.
I would think that if you wanted to make a run with the fairy glitch you might as well go all out. I would also think that it would call for a new category, since it's more than just the normal run but you can skip 1 boss.

But I'm just some random dude, so take that with a grain of salt.
Yeah inzult. Both skips are practically the same technique, so it would be the most logical. I also know you can transport a little to the right in the 6th palace with the fairy glitch landing on the roof after falling down the pits (I would be really surprised if you haven't tested that out), but that's not usable for anything as you demonstrated in your entire Eastern Hyrule skip.
I also agree that the most logical thing would be have a category with fairy glitch and one without....which would unfortunately nullify the Thunderbird skip in the normal route.  The other only way I could see it is if you made the "any% with no major skips" require beating all the palaces still.  The former category makes the most sense, imo.
I'm not certain the Fairy Glitch itself should be considered a separate category. Obviously, the East Hyrule skip (or Barrier Skip as its being called in a lot of streams) would be a Major Skips category. There actually is another way into "Glitch Town" that involves using a healer in town to get there, but I have never been able to do it, with or without slow down. If you could do this, the Fairy Glitch wouldn't be needed at all to skip most of the game, plus you could skip the raft as well. If you want to see this way of skipping things, watch the Glitched TAS at TAS Videos. It's near the beginning after the Jump spell is acquired.

I started coming up with a long post explaining the Fairy Glitch a couple days ago, but I got busy with stuff and haven't had a chance to finish it till now. If any information I post is incorrect, please do correct me.

The first thing I need to explain is that every room of Zelda 2 (in town, fixed encounter, random encounter, and palaces) seems to be split into 3 general sections. Left, Center, Right. These sections determine where you go when you exit the screen in various directions. I don't know the exact position where the game determines what section you’re in. For the most part, you're in the left or right section if the screen has stopped scrolling.

Fairy Glitch info:

In fixed and random encounters, you always end up in the exact same position you did the glitch at. The only oddity with this is that you fix the scroll position on Link's position when you do the glitch, so Link won't be in the center of the screen until you hit one side of the encounter and then you could "fix" it. There was no change in where the exits took you.

In town's this glitch will take you to the respective exits if you do it on the left or right sections. If done in the center section, you end up in glitch town. I remember seeing that this is true for all town rooms on the TAS Video forums somewhere. The only place you can get high enough to use the Fairy Glitch to get into glitch town is in Darunia.

In Palaces is where this glitch is interesting. If you're in the left or right sections, it takes you through the normal exits there. If that leads to another room, it takes you there in the same position you did the glitch at. If there is no room in that direction, it has you exit the palace. This is probably why the exit after the crystal takes you outside, they probably just put a general coding in that any Palace room with no exit in the left or right section will have you exit the palace if you go through it.

If done in the center section, it takes you through the downward exit there, if there is one. This can be a pit or elevator. Again, you retain your position in the new room, except for elevators. With elevators you end up on the elevator in the new room if you do the glitch close enough to the elevator. If there is no exit there, you warp to the entrance of Palace 1, Palace 3, or the Great Palace. You go to Palace 1 if you do this in Palaces 1, 2, and 5 (Parapa, Midoro, Ocean). Palace 3 if done in Palaces 3, 4, 6 (Island, Maze Island, Hidden). The Great Palace takes you to the entrance of itself. Warping to the entrance of a palace in this way involves risk. Most of the time, you'll end up on top of the palace just fine. But, sometimes you end up at the entrance inside of a wall. If you end up with only Link's feet in a wall, you can just jump out. But if Link is fully inside a wall, there is no way out. I don't know what causes the difference, probably pixel positioning or possibly the direction you hit when you do the glitch. Possibly both. If you wish to enter the palace, you'll need to fall down where the elevator is supposed to be. Be sure to hold up when you do. If you don't, you'll end up inside a wall. This will cause the elevator to be in the proper position and you can enter the palace normally.

There have been times where I got different results from what I describe, but I could never reproduce them. Either there is pixel perfection required, or there is some other factor that influenced it. The most common was where it skipped the falling animation, but I ended up exactly where I was with the exception that the screen wouldn’t scroll in either direction. If I went off the screen, it put me where I would have been if I had gone through the falling animation or I went through either the left or right standard exit if I was in the center section. The only other result was ending up inside a wall in the new room.

I have never gone through an upward exit using the Fairy Glitch.

Aside from skipping a few rooms and Thunderbird (and by extension Thunder), there really isn't anything I've found that could actually be skipped if you use just the Fairy Glitch to go through the game. It's going into Glitch Town and messing with the screen scrolling that allows the skipping of so much.
Ciento Dos Huevos
This was mostly wrong...I'll correct this at some point, link was correct, as were most boxes but that was only coincidental, the way it was implemented was not how the game did it at all...
Quote from Solairflaire:
I'm not certain the Fairy Glitch itself should be considered a separate category. Obviously, the East Hyrule skip (or Barrier Skip as its being called in a lot of streams) would be a Major Skips category.

Right, yeah, the screen scrolling glitch and the fairy glitch are indeed two distinct glitches. And you can view it as glitch and glitch lite if you want. The way they work is very different, but what you end up doing is the same, taking exits in places where there's not supposed to be exits.

You can also skip the barrier by using the fairy glitch on the first screen of the Great Palace. This requires a few frames of left+right, which should be doable in real time if your controller is loose enough. That still lets you skip fighting any of the bosses. I know left+right isn't normally used, but where are we drawing the line here? Only use an exit you're not supposed to be able to use if you can get there "normally"?

Basically, I want to see the fairy glitch used in a run, but I think as far as categories go it has to be a new one.

Also, I think using the healer glitch to get to glitch town in a run is not very likely.
Not a walrus
L+R is a hardware mod in a sense (broken controller), so that's easy enough to draw a line on.

I agree that the fairy glitch probably doesn't warrant a separate category by itself, but all the wrong warps trickery definitely does.
People also forget that a new category might be needed for 100%, but only if we come to the conclution that the thunderbird is a big enough glitch.
When the 100% rules were written did boss skips even seem likely?  Why not just define 100% to exclude skipping bosses like Thunderbird?

It's kind of silly to require the player to get the Thunder spell but let him skip where it's used, in a 100% run, in my personal view.
so pro u don't even know
Quote from presjpolk:
When the 100% rules were written did boss skips even seem likely?  Why not just define 100% to exclude skipping bosses like Thunderbird?

It's kind of silly to require the player to get the Thunder spell but let him skip where it's used, in a 100% run, in my personal view.

Disagree, bosses have never been part of 100% rules. Think of skipping Spore Spawn in Super Metroid. 100% usually refers to item collection.
Not a walrus
Counterpoint: SoTN Richter All Bosses.

But that's what you get for trying to pull too many categories under the umbrella of "100%".
All bosses isn't 100%.  All bosses is all bosses.
Not a walrus
Is there another 100% for Richter mode I'm not aware of, then?
I guess he'd have to get all heart/life upgrades for 100%, since I think that's what Alucard does.  And maybe all map.  Regardless, it's a really really bad comparison.
Not a walrus
My point was more that people erroneously consider it 100%, maybe that wasn't clear. So I think we're in agreement anyway. Tongue