A solid 100% definition for Zelda II would probably be as follows: all heart containers and magic containers; all items (the raft, cross, lost child, lantern, etc.); all spells; and not grinding to maximum stats. I haven't played the game in a while, so I could be missing something that might warrant inclusion.
A solid 100% definition for Zelda II would probably be as follows: all heart containers and magic containers; all items (the raft, cross, lost child, lantern, etc.); all spells; and not grinding to maximum stats. I haven't played the game in a while, so I could be missing something that might warrant inclusion.
Sounds reasonable, I agree. If there's a question, also add that getting the extra lives is not necessary. Max levels (i.e. grinding stats) has never been in a 100% definition in any game, and it doesn't fit this one either.
I agree with that definition, it gets everything that's notable in the game, and 8-8-8 does indeed take a long time to get (I probably spent over 2 hours right outside the hidden village grinding for exp)
I forgot about the down and up thrust entirely! As far as I'm concerned they should be collected as if they were spells, so we should definitely include those in our 100% definition.
I forgot about the down and up thrust entirely! As far as I'm concerned they should be collected as if they were spells, so we should definitely include those in our 100% definition.
Yeah, in a 100% they should or must be done... That's like the point of a hundred, no shortcuts..
Pretty sure those are necessary for a speedrun (they save more time than they take to get) based on the current any% run, but I suppose it'd be good to add them to the definition should they become obsolete.
We don't have an actual 100% definition at the moment Due to a lack of a 100% run.
We have an Any%.
I think it's safe to say that it is under 100% <_<
Love your play on words at the end.
To EXO and all others who wrote bad (non constructive) stuff in here without a reason really...
One of my favorite books are moment 22 (catch 22 in english) and the "We don't have an actual 100% definition at the moment. Due to a lack of a 100% run." is pretty much what that book is all about, how can someone send in a run where there are no rules and still here you are waiting for someone posting in a run so you can make a set of rules...
Svenne -1000 for writing this
(I have posted these rules to Flip, if you want something done, you must do it yourself!)^^
One of my favorite books are moment 22 (catch 22 in english) and the "We don't have an actual 100% definition at the moment. Due to a lack of a 100% run." is pretty much what that book is all about, how can someone send in a run where there are no rules and still here you are waiting for someone posting in a run so you can make a set of rules...
I see what you're trying to say here (for those not familiar, Catch-22 is a postmodern novel about the consequences of fallacious circular logic in military law), though the lack of a 100% definition merely implies that we don't have a 100% run; it is not the case that we don't have a 100% definition because we don't have a run, but we don't have a definition yet because no one has ever planned a route for such a run.
Let me make this clear: we do not wait for someone to submit a 100% run before deciding on the 100% definition. AniMeowzerz was not very explicit about this point.
It is also important to note that we don't usually decide on the precise definition for 100% completion in a game until someone announces plans to start a 100% run (which is why we've been discussing that for the past page or two of this thread). The way the definition is decided often relies on precedents set by 100% categories for other games (especially other games from the same series and other games in the same genre), and are worded to be as concise and comprehensive as possible, without including really irrelevant and boring crap (such as grinding to max stats, collecting useless recipes, etc.).
Of course if the game comes with a 100% definition already (though this one doesn't), we usually don't have to discuss the definition unless the game designers were sadistic enough to include the aforementioned boring and irrelevant crap.
But Artic_Eagle stated he had a 100% on TG and my friend John is gonna do a 100% on "Swedes of Speed" but if we want that run to be under SDA rules, we need to make those rules, or els the poor lad only got to follow... TG rules... I mean, there are runs from people already but they keep avoiding this site if you don't offer that they are looking for. Sad but true... They have runs on TG and not here on 100%, because of the obvious, they have no rules to follow on here. John did a 100% run and wanted to post it here but was dropped because he had the wrong version, the one not allowing you to go though doors as a fairy. So for sure, what I am getting at, if you had rules, Artic_Eagle would have already done those runs on here as well, no doubt in my mind. Enough of this burocratic stuff, let's make it happen!
The only issue I see that can stop us for accepting this said rules now are that in this Zelda, there are a couple of 1ups!, I personally feel if we all now have agreed that we don't have to grind to 8-8-8, we should not have to collect maximum 1ups, because I feel it is under the same rule-train of thought.
I hope you understand, if there are rules to follow, you can do a run, you don't wanna do shit in vain.
It sounds like prevailing opinion is: YES: heart/magic containers, spells, items, upsword/downsword NO: 8/8/8, 1ups
Any objections to that? This sounds extremely reasonable to me, and, imo, different enough from the any% route to warrant its own category. It also sounds like there is work being done on this game that is being held up by the lack of a ruling. /me waits for someone with a green name to chime here
No need to wait for a green name; that sounds reasonable, and if no one has any reason to challenge it, then post it in the 100%/low% thread to be done with this.
Breakdown is probably the best person to get an opinion on this though, as I know he did a run of the game and is more familiar with all that can be done in it.
Will there be one category with up+A warps and one without? It would perhaps be a little "overkill" with both for a 100 % Zelda II? What do people want to see, both categories or just one of them? (And what about deaths? Death-abuse makes the game a little faster, just like warps, but not the most aesthetically pleasing perhaps?)
Btw I have improved the Zelda II NTSC single-segement, no warps, no deaths category from 1:10:36 (Jon Fessenden) to 1:07:47 or something like that and will submit it to SDA, say, before March (2012 ).
You guys are really caught up on rules. Just do what you think makes sense or is the most enjoyable as a runner. I think we're all grown up enough here to tell whether the run you are doing follows clear rules or is completely arbitrary. If you use common sense, the worst that will happen is that the run will be made its own category because it doesn't match any of the current runs.
This may seem like a lazy way to answer the question, but keep in mind that SDA is not a records site, so to speak. We do not create categories for people to submit to. We accommodate and host runs that are submitted, within the bounds of common sense. Definition discussions like this are so that the community can agree on what they would like to see, not so that the site can drop the hammer on runs that don't follow an exact set of guidelines
That said, I'm probably saying this about a week too late for it to be relevant. And for the record, I support the definition in feasel's post.
Thanks Svenne, always nice to see some interest and love for Zelda II, especially from fellow Scandinavians!
Solairflaire: I have done a Zelda II extreme run for Twin Galaxies in 1:26:35 (already verified). The rules are feasel's 100 % definition AND without up+a warps AND no use of the fairy spell to pass through keyholes AND maxing stats to 8-8-8. See this link for elaboration on the rules in the first post: http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=15485&start=0
You should definitely aim for a time at least a couple of minutes under 1:26:35 for a feasel defined 100 % without up+A warps. I believe I had to pick up all keys in the first 5 palaces in my 1:26:35. I did death-abuse in it though.
100% would be all spells, sword techniques, quest items (candle, glove, raft, boots, flute, cross, magic key, hammer), and heart and magic containers.
8-8-8, individual keys, link dolls, and static point bags/red jars would not be required. You can fairy through doors (and in fact, must if you don't want to get rejected). Up+A and without would be separate categories within 100%.