Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Edit history:

inzult: 2013-01-20 10:30:17 am

2013-01-20 10:21:29 am

I like the NG+ route a lot more. It's "cleaner". With a new file, there's a lot of running around you need to do.

Also I don't really see the big deal with having glitched and unglitched categories for both any% and NG+.

feasel

2013-01-20 11:31:36 am

difficult and stupidly random

In case anyone's interested, here's the glitched run I did back in october (NG, not NG+). The time is 28:35. It's not a great run, which is why I never posted it, but since there seems to be some interest in a glitched run once again somebody may find this useful.

It's got 3 failed attempts at the first healer glitch and 12 failed attempts at the 2nd, so lots of time can come off by doing this glitch better. It's also got 2 accidental deaths. I used the life-lady to do the 2nd healer glitch because it has better visual cues than the magic-lady. I reached level 2-3-3 while getting the Hammer (required 200-bag drop), and 2-5-3 on my way to the last palace (mostly by picking up fixed p-bags on the east continent). I did an intentional death in palace 7 that could potentially be skipped, though you may end up losing more time not using fairy and jump to bypass the fokkeru and fokka respectively.

presjpolk

2013-01-20 12:05:05 pm

HELLO!

Sounds like the ScaryIce route, right? So the same one I'd do.

Fiskbit

2013-01-20 12:26:52 pm

Feasel: Yes, if you accidentally enter while trying to do the skip, you'd want to move right far enough that turning around to exit will scroll the screen left a bit. Alternatively, you could exit immediately and hope you don't get a large encounter when you succeed at the skip, but if you do and despawn the jar, you can enter the VOD-entrance encounter from the bottom and exit immediately to set the direction left and then repeat the skip from the bottom side with a large encounter to respawn it. The former strategy might make you take more damage in that room, while the latter strategy makes you have to deal with the randomness of encounter spawns a second time.

nmaster64

2013-01-20 06:40:48 pm

Congrats to feasel on the any% WR and presjpolk on the any% NG+ WR. Great runs, and I'm sure we'll see improvements soon.

That healer glitch is a real pain, hopefully it'll get more consistent soon. I'm gonna start wrestlin' with it myself.

presjpolk

2013-01-20 07:51:51 pm

HELLO!

In truth you can't get it perfectly consistent. Even if you hit the pixel cues perfectly, it's subpixel-based, so you'll still miss it even when you hit it.

presjpolk

2013-01-20 09:04:05 pm

HELLO!

FYI: Glitch town scroll lock does not work the same way in the FDS version. At least in my Virtual Console testing, the scroll lock happens, but a) no wrong warps and b) walking right then going back left will just take you the same place as if you'd just walked left.

Also, it gives the screen a gray-sepia tone.

So glitch town isn't really useful on the FDS version.

Svenne

2013-01-21 06:24:17 am

Smörgåsbord

Quote from nmaster64:

Congrats to feasel on the any% WR and presjpolk on the any% NG+ WR. Great runs, and I'm sure we'll see improvements soon.

That healer glitch is a real pain, hopefully it'll get more consistent soon. I'm gonna start wrestlin' with it myself.

I really think we need to decide if these kind of glitches are big enough to deserve different categories so people don't get confused what wr have been taken by who. Wink

NG+ S&Q just went from 41 minutes to 13! Tongue

presjpolk

2013-01-21 06:59:00 am

HELLO!

I really don't think of them as the same.

nmaster64

2013-01-21 11:05:45 am

I think it's pretty normal that when some huge sequence break comes along that suddenly cuts any% by a huge fraction, usually the old route/restrictions becomes a separate category (assuming the community still wants to compete on it).

Svenne

2013-01-21 12:07:27 pm

Smörgåsbord

The community wants more categories for sure! And it is really great that people are getting interested in the glitched runs aswell!

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2013-01-21 12:10:24 pm

2013-01-21 12:09:04 pm

HELLO!

Yeah. I agree that there's interest out there. The more people running Zelda 2, the more categories will pop up.

That said, I don't know what makes sense for SDA to publish. Smiley

When I cut the 12, or whenever I get an NG+ glitched run I'm happy with... I don't know whether to submit it or not. I don't know if there's a point. I consider it legitimate – albeit not comparable with the no-major-skips categories – but SDA isn't about just any legitimate thing. It's a showcase.

nmaster64

2013-01-21 12:49:15 pm

Just for reference and comparison, I clipped together some different successes of the glitch.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2013-01-21 12:54:21 pm

2013-01-21 12:53:27 pm

HELLO!

I'd tried the mash technique for a while, but I had trouble stopping to mash when I get it.

It also blows my mind I got the magic lady type once. Sooo lucky. Smiley

nmaster64

2013-01-21 05:03:58 pm

Here's another reference photo (click for jpg):

My Frames - 00: Input, 13: Turn, 42: Input, 50: Textbox Gone, 68: Input, 81: Turn

This confirms Inzult's findings of 26 frames between the input to dismiss the text box and the input to talk to her the second time.

presjpolk

2013-01-21 05:05:39 pm

HELLO!

No problem if I post that on RedCandle, right?

nmaster64

2013-01-21 05:09:33 pm

Course not, feel free to use anything I post.

Countneko

2013-01-21 05:44:54 pm

Wow, that is mind blowing. This game's still getting broken decades later.

presjpolk

2013-01-21 05:47:05 pm

HELLO!

Alright, I've created A page summarizing what we know about the healer glitch. Next I'll document what we know about the Glitch Town and its consequences itself.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2013-01-21 11:00:49 pm

presjpolk: 2013-01-21 10:58:59 pm

presjpolk: 2013-01-21 10:52:54 pm

2013-01-21 10:52:33 pm

HELLO!

So, anyway, thinking about straight any% glitched. I'm trying to figure out a different route, that starts like the NG+ Route (aka the "Let's not fight any Dairas if we can help it" route):

- Rauru: Scroll lock, warp to King's Tomb
- Mido: warp to Bagu
- Get Glove
- Get Hammer, Up-A
- Magic Container, Up-A
- Trophy, Jump, Up-A

Then I need to know if I can get the Medicine scroll locked, and whether I can get Downstab and Fairy scroll locked. If I can get all three scroll locked, I want to do this after Jump:

- Rauru: Scroll lock, exit left.
- Get Medicine
- Mido: Downstab, Fairy, warp to Bagu
- Get Magic Container, warp to Maze Island.

And then just do the same ScaryIce route of leveling and winning the game.

If I can get Medicine scroll locked, but not fairy and downstab, then what I think I want is this after Jump:

- Rauru: Scroll lock, exit left
- Get Medicine, Up-A
- Mido: Downstab, Fairy, scroll lock, warp to Bagu
- Get Magic Container, warp to Maze Island

If I can't do either scroll locked:

- Get Medicine, Up-A
- Mido: Downstab, Fairy, scroll lock, warp to Bagu
- Get Magic Container, warp to Maze Island

So you see, depending on what my testing reveals, this could mean doing THREE healer glitches... which is a thing. But this avoids a lot of fights and should avoid a bunch of non-scroll locked walking around in encounters. I'll dink around this weekend on it.

EDIT: It occurs to me right after posting that the problem here is it doesn't get any levels in death mountain the way the scaryice route does. So... it's an important to know whether grinding Lizalfos would be faster than doing death mountain fighting.

So, anyway, thinking about straight any% glitched. I'm trying to figure out a different route, that starts like the NG+ Route (aka the "Let's not fight any Dairas if we can help it" route):

- Rauru: Scroll lock, warp to King's Tomb
- Mido: warp to Bagu
- Get Glove
- Get Hammer, Up-A
- Magic Container, Up-A
- Trophy, Jump, Up-A

Then I need to know if I can get the Medicine scroll locked, and whether I can get Downstab and Fairy scroll locked.  If I can get all three scroll locked, I want to do this after Jump:

- Rauru: Scroll lock, exit left.
- Get Medicine
- Mido: Downstab, Fairy, warp to Bagu
- Get Magic Container, warp to Maze Island.

And then just do the same ScaryIce route of leveling and winning the game.

If I can get Medicine scroll locked, but not fairy and downstab, then what I think I want is this after Jump:

- Rauru: Scroll lock, exit left
- Get Medicine, Up-A
- Mido: Downstab, Fairy, scroll lock, warp to Bagu
- Get Magic Container, warp to Maze Island

If I can't do either scroll locked:

- Get Medicine, Up-A
- Mido: Downstab, Fairy, scroll lock, warp to Bagu
- Get Magic Container, warp to Maze Island

So you see, depending on what my testing reveals, this could mean doing THREE healer glitches... which is a thing. But this avoids a lot of fights and should avoid a bunch of non-scroll locked walking around in encounters.  I'll dink around this weekend on it.

EDIT: It occurs to me right after posting that the problem here is it doesn't get any levels in death mountain the way the scaryice route does.  So... it's an important to know whether grinding Lizalfos would be faster than doing death mountain fighting.

Solairflaire

2013-01-21 11:53:27 pm

You can't get spells or abilities from the people in town with scroll lock active. The person who teaches you won't appear. The only way to get them to is to use Left and Right so you can scroll the screen far enough right for the game make them appear.

You can get the medicine with scroll lock active though. I'm fairly certain getting the medicine would be faster without scroll lock.

Lizalfos will kill you in 1 hit at lvl 1 Life, iirc, possibly at lvl 2 Life. Not to mention they'll take more hits to kill than Dairyas. They also don't give that much more xp, really.

Remember, you need at least lvl 5 magic to cast Jump and 2 Fairies with 7 magic containers.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2013-01-21 11:58:54 pm

2013-01-21 11:57:55 pm

HELLO!

Good points. This was a thought I had in bed starting a nap, and I had to write it down. Considering I ended up laying there a half hour running over this, instead of sleeping. Smiley

That said, I really feel like Lizalfos would be more reliable to fight...

nmaster64

Edit history:

nmaster64: 2013-01-22 12:57:52 am

2013-01-22 12:57:18 am

After a full day of practice I've still yet to get the hammer having to fight Dairas at 1-1-1. Cry

A consistent sub-45 route for non-TAS non-Feasel's would be amazing.

presjpolk

2013-01-22 10:55:08 am

HELLO!

Scroll lock on 3DS:

Scroll lock fail on FDS:

presjpolk

2013-01-22 07:44:31 pm

HELLO!

Cut NG+ Glitched to 12:52. Got healer second try... but then had problems in Palace 7. Blue fokker trolled me, then a bot trolled me. So between those two alone I should be able to cut another 20ish seconds. First try healer should save another 20ish seconds. So fix those two and I hit my sub-12 goal.

Also, we had the jar not appear tonight, and I guess I misunderstood what's going on with that, so I highlighted the run and here it is: