Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Arctic_Eagle

Edit history:

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-09-27 01:58:47 pm

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-09-27 09:11:24 am

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-09-27 09:10:44 am

2012-09-27 07:07:26 am

Nice route feasel. Good idea about skipping a magic container and setting up a blue magic potion drop from the spikey things in the Great Palace. I understand that getting the healer glitch to work will obsolete the route, and I've seen inzult's 5 minute glitched TAS run now, and have some idea of what it will do, though I don't understand it fully (e2: guess it does the same as what you do in glitch town for the barrier skip, starts the screen scrolling glitch). Will be interesting to see a good Zelda II glitched console run, healer glitch or not.

inzult

2012-09-27 01:36:36 pm

Quote from Svenne:

I mean, this quote is 4 days ago, and now you can skip raft, it saves minutes!

Skipping the raft is cool and all, but it means you have to visit death mountain again, so it's more of a step sideways really. I mean, yeah it would be faster not to get the raft, but the real savings from doing the screen scrolling glitch earlier is less overworld walking and shorter sidescrolling rooms. And not having to visit Darunia.

It's less sexy, I guess, but what can you do.

scaryice

Edit history:

scaryice: 2012-10-01 01:36:45 am

scaryice: 2012-09-29 06:26:13 am

2012-09-29 06:22:06 am

Here's a emu movie of what a healer glitch console run would look like. 21 minutes long. You have to do the glitch twice, which sucks, but there's no getting around that as you need water/fairy and downstab. I wondered if maybe actually getting Thunder instead of fairy would be faster, but unfortunately you can't get the downstab while glitched without L+R it seems. If you could, then you'd only need to healer glitch once. (EDIT: you can't get thunder either while glitched, so it's irrelevant)

I'd be interested to see if anyone has a faster leveling plan. I didn't bother skipping a magic container, although if you were to do so, the one at the beginning is the obvious choice.

Attachment:

test.fm2

Arctic_Eagle

Edit history:

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-09-29 07:32:50 pm

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-09-29 07:03:29 pm

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-09-29 04:50:25 pm

2012-09-29 04:44:43 pm

Quote from presjpolk:

I said I'd bow out but I have to register a complaint. Skipping Bagu must be banned.
Smiley

I agree. Bagu is obviously the village chief of western hyrule, and bypassing him would be completely out of order. Only the holy glitch could counter that I reckon, and I heard it was found in a Final Fantasy game.

Svenne

2012-09-30 06:52:47 am

Smörgåsbord

scaryice, bloody brilliant! We have been trying to get the glitch to work but the best we managed before this video was that the healer never came out from the house again! I think it's a sub-pixel trick after we did some serious attempts yesterday. Cheesy

feasel

2012-09-30 11:48:15 pm

difficult and stupidly random

I guess you could call it a sub-pixel trick. the healer moves at a rate of 1 pixel per 2 frames, and there's a 1-frame window on each part of the trick, so basically it's two half-pixel tricks. I messed around with it for a while, and i got my consistency up to about 1 in 10 times (awful, but better than when i started). Still though, in an actual run i'd expect my consistency to be a lot lower than it is when doing it 100 times back-to-back in practice.

For what it's worth, for the first healer glitch the visual cue that i have been using is to press B when the healer's chest first touches the window-frame and then press B again on the last frame in which the healer's elbow is still touching the window-frame. Easier said than done, ofc.

For the second time you do the healer glitch (on the magic lady, right after getting Fairy), i can not seem to find any good visual cues. The background is just plain white so i've got nothing to go on. After over an hour of trying, I did not manage to get this instance of the healer glitch to work even a single time. Anybody have any tips or suggestions?

Also: the route video that scaryice posted does the healer glitch after getting the magic container and the trophy. However I think it's a much better idea to do the healer glitch immediately, get the hammer, and then pick up the magic container and trophy afterwards. Do the glitch first in case you need to reset.

A weird thing i've noticed is that sometimes the healer will seem to be doing the glitch (she'll turn to face left upon the 2nd time you talk to her) but instead will walk off to the left, far away from the house. I've also seen the thing that Svenne mentioned, with the healer going into the house and not coming back out again. I have no idea what causes either of these.

I guess you could call it a sub-pixel trick.  the healer moves at a rate of 1 pixel per 2 frames, and there's a 1-frame window on each part of the trick, so basically it's two half-pixel tricks.  I messed around with it for a while, and i got my consistency up to about 1 in 10 times (awful, but better than when i started).  Still though, in an actual run i'd expect my consistency to be a lot lower than it is when doing it 100 times back-to-back in practice.

For what it's worth, for the first healer glitch the visual cue that i have been using is to press B when the healer's chest first touches the window-frame and then press B again on the last frame in which the healer's elbow is still touching the window-frame.  Easier said than done, ofc.

For the second time you do the healer glitch (on the magic lady, right after getting Fairy), i can not seem to find any good visual cues.  The background is just plain white so i've got nothing to go on.  After over an hour of trying, I did not manage to get this instance of the healer glitch to work even a single time.  Anybody have any tips or suggestions?

Also: the route video that scaryice posted does the healer glitch after getting the magic container and the trophy.  However I think it's a much better idea to do the healer glitch immediately, get the hammer, and then pick up the magic container and trophy afterwards.  Do the glitch first in case you need to reset.

A weird thing i've noticed is that sometimes the healer will seem to be doing the glitch (she'll turn to face left upon the 2nd time you talk to her) but instead will walk off to the left, far away from the house.  I've also seen the thing that Svenne mentioned, with the healer going into the house and not coming back out again.  I have no idea what causes either of these.

scaryice

Edit history:

scaryice: 2012-10-01 01:49:55 am

2012-10-01 01:48:40 am

I don't know if I've ever been able to do it after the ladies go into the house and come back out. I don't think so. It seems to me like if you miss the first time, then it's best just to exit the screen to the left and come back.

For the magic lady, I don't know what to say. Maybe you'll just have to go by the timing.

One neat thing I discovered tonight is that if you try to rescue the child in the maze before getting the water of life, it has the water of life sprite. It doesn't let you get the fairy spell though. It still counts as the child even though it looks different.

Solairflaire

2012-10-01 02:26:15 am

I've been doing some testing on the healer glitch. After 3 weeks of trying, I've gotten it twice in real time. Both yesterday. I can't count the number of times that mean healer just walked away without opening the door for me. I think it's caused by being one (or two) frames late on the first talk, but getting the timing right on the second one. Ironically, if you get this, you can still keep trying. You just need to coax her back to the door. A few other strange things I noticed with this result. It's possible to keep pushing her left if you talk to her at the right times. Eventually she ends up off the left side of the area. If there is another door in her way when she starts going left, she goes into that door and it becomes her new home. Apparently healers have the master key to homes in their villages.

Quote:

I don't know if I've ever been able to do it after the ladies go into the house and come back out.

Yes it is possible. The first time I did it was after she'd gone back into the house. I talked to her as she came out (toward the left) and ended up getting it. I also just button mashed it. So, the only times talking to her matters is the first and last time. You can apparently talk to her as many times as you want in between. It's also quite possible that you only need to hit those two important frames, so you could probably talk to her after you get it too.

Quote:

For the second time you do the healer glitch (on the magic lady, right after getting Fairy), i can not seem to find any good visual cues. The background is just plain white so i've got nothing to go on. After over an hour of trying, I did not manage to get this instance of the healer glitch to work even a single time. Anybody have any tips or suggestions?

For consistency, it would probably be a good idea to go to the next screen right and use the life healer at the start of town. The houses there have windows and stuff in the right places.

I tried testing a route that bypasses fairy and gets thunder instead. It ended in complete failure because the guy that's supposed to give you thunder doesn't spawn without L+R while Scroll Lock is active.

I've been doing some testing on the healer glitch. After 3 weeks of trying, I've gotten it twice in real time. Both yesterday. I can't count the number of times that mean healer just walked away without opening the door for me. I think it's caused by being one (or two) frames late on the first talk, but getting the timing right on the second one. Ironically, if you get this, you can still keep trying. You just need to coax her back to the door. A few other strange things I noticed with this result. It's possible to keep pushing her left if you talk to her at the right times. Eventually she ends up off the left side of the area. If there is another door in her way when she starts going left, she goes into that door and it becomes her new home. Apparently healers have the master key to homes in their villages.

[quote]I don't know if I've ever been able to do it after the ladies go into the house and come back out.[/quote]

Yes it is possible. The first time I did it was after she'd gone back into the house. I talked to her as she came out (toward the left) and ended up getting it. I also just button mashed it. So, the only times talking to her matters is the first and last time. You can apparently talk to her as many times as you want in between. It's also quite possible that you only need to hit those two important frames, so you could probably talk to her after you get it too.

[quote]For the second time you do the healer glitch (on the magic lady, right after getting Fairy), i can not seem to find any good visual cues.  The background is just plain white so i've got nothing to go on.  After over an hour of trying, I did not manage to get this instance of the healer glitch to work even a single time.  Anybody have any tips or suggestions?[/quote]

For consistency, it would probably be a good idea to go to the next screen right and use the life healer at the start of town. The houses there have windows and stuff in the right places.

I tried testing a route that bypasses fairy and gets thunder instead. It ended in complete failure because the guy that's supposed to give you thunder doesn't spawn without L+R while Scroll Lock is active.

scaryice

2012-10-01 02:56:03 am

Yeah, I also noticed you could talk in between the first and last tries. Maybe there's a more reliable button mashing strategy to be found.

Quote from Solairflaire:

It's possible to keep pushing her left if you talk to her at the right times. Eventually she ends up off the left side of the area. If there is another door in her way when she starts going left, she goes into that door and it becomes her new home. Apparently healers have the master key to homes in their villages.

Can you get more than one lady on the same house?

Solairflaire

Edit history:

Solairflaire: 2012-10-01 04:24:15 am

2012-10-01 04:23:10 am

Quote from scaryice:

Can you get more than one lady on the same house?

I just tested that. Yes you can. The last one into the door before you is whom heals you. I couldn't find a place to use it to possibly get to a spell person though. All of them are on the right side of any healer or have no healer nearby, unfortunately. So I was unable to test what happens at those doors.

scaryice

Edit history:

scaryice: 2012-10-01 04:49:52 am

scaryice: 2012-10-01 04:49:32 am

2012-10-01 04:48:59 am

Try going to New Kasuto without 7 magic containers, move the magic lady over, then see if you can get in the building where the lady guards the the 8th one.

Svenne

2012-10-01 07:06:10 am

Smörgåsbord

After doing this alot the past days and got it to work a bunch of times, we kinda wonder, is this possible with the "quest" ladies? Wink

Heidrage

2012-10-01 08:50:25 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

Does game version play any role in this game in any way?

Solairflaire

Edit history:

Solairflaire: 2012-10-02 03:38:19 am

2012-10-02 03:26:42 am

Quote from scaryice:

Try going to New Kasuto without 7 magic containers, move the magic lady over, then see if you can get in the building where the lady guards the the 8th one.

Ok, tested it. If the healer goes in the door, you get healed. If the "normal" one goes in, you go inside. I tried getting both into the door too. Only resulted in getting healed. Didn't test for if both go in on the same frame. I'm not that good at that sort of thing. I was a little impatient in getting there, so I had scroll lock active while testing it which may have skewed the results. I doubt scroll lock affected it at all though.

Quote from Heidrage:

Does game version play any role in this game in any way?

There are 3 versions. US, PAL, Japanese. PAL I think only has slower overworld movement. There's a PAL version which doesn't let one fairy through doors, but it's sorta not allowed here at SDA because of the fastest version rules. The Japanese version has a different leveling system, a couple different room layouts, some boss differences, and you can't pick up items as a fairy (though you can still go through doors). No one has brought up if it's a different category here, I don't think. The leveling system of it alone would totally change how people played the game though.

Edit: In regard to not having enough magic containers in New Kasuto. The healer only allowed me to get healed, the other person wouldn't open the door.

[quote="scaryice"]Try going to New Kasuto without 7 magic containers, move the magic lady over, then see if you can get in the building where the lady guards the the 8th one.[/quote]

Ok, tested it. If the healer goes in the door, you get healed. If the "normal" one goes in, you go inside. I tried getting both into the door too. Only resulted in getting healed. Didn't test for if both go in on the same frame. I'm not that good at that sort of thing. I was a little impatient in getting there, so I had scroll lock active while testing it which may have skewed the results. I doubt scroll lock affected it at all though.

[quote="Heidrage"]Does game version play any role in this game in any way?[/quote]

There are 3 versions. US, PAL, Japanese. PAL I think only has slower overworld movement. There's a PAL version which doesn't let one fairy through doors, but it's sorta not allowed here at SDA because of the fastest version rules. The Japanese version has a different leveling system, a couple different room layouts, some boss differences, and you can't pick up items as a fairy (though you can still go through doors). No one has brought up if it's a different category here, I don't think. The leveling system of it alone would totally change how people played the game though.

Edit: In regard to not having enough magic containers in New Kasuto. The healer only allowed me to get healed, the other person wouldn't open the door.

Heidrage

2012-10-02 04:47:18 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

So like a 1.0 or a 1.1 cart does not exist/matter?

Arctic_Eagle

Edit history:

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-10-02 11:54:40 am

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-10-02 11:53:46 am

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-10-02 11:46:24 am

2012-10-02 11:39:43 am

Not sure about that Heidrage. How could you tell 1.0 and 1.1 versions apart?

NTSC and Famicom versions are very different. Famicom: Crazy sound effects, less complex and very different levelling system, most palaces are gray, different enemies in palaces, you need to slash quest items to get them, different music, different overworld random shadow enemies etc. Most things are different.

NTSC and PAL: Not so different. Overworld runs at 5/6 speed. Sidescroller is modified to make most parts run at approximately the same speed as NTSC, but taking elevators up and down in palaces are 5/6 speed. In the PAL version you need more space for Link to reach full speed, very different controls that way, you need more "room" to maneouver turning around when jumping pits etc. due to the modifications, controls are just "different". NTSC version scrolls smoother, but I guess that's normal from PAL to NTSC.

PAL: I've never seen evidence you can't fairy through doors, just heard rumours. But on the Wii Virtual Console it seems early versions wouldn't get you through some doors with fairy, see youtube video (but Solairflaire went through that door with fairy on Virtual Console, so problem must be fixed).

Not sure about that Heidrage. How could you tell 1.0 and 1.1 versions apart?

NTSC and Famicom versions are very different. Famicom: Crazy sound effects, less complex and very different levelling system, most palaces are gray, different enemies in palaces, you need to slash quest items to get them, different music, different overworld random shadow enemies etc. Most things are different.

NTSC and PAL: Not so different. Overworld runs at 5/6 speed. Sidescroller is modified to make most parts run at approximately the same speed as NTSC, but taking elevators up and down in palaces are 5/6 speed. In the PAL version you need more space for Link to reach full speed, very different controls that way, you need more "room" to maneouver turning around when jumping pits etc. due to the modifications, controls are just "different". NTSC version scrolls smoother, but I guess that's normal from PAL to NTSC.

PAL: I've never seen evidence you can't fairy through doors, just heard rumours. But on the Wii Virtual Console it seems early versions wouldn't get you through some doors with fairy, see youtube video (but Solairflaire went through that door with fairy on Virtual Console, so problem must be fixed).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SuNQfziKxw

Svenne

Edit history:

Svenne: 2012-10-02 11:47:55 am

2012-10-02 11:46:03 am

Smörgåsbord

Actually, there are two versions of Zelda 2 in Europe, named A and B. One of these are modified so you cannot go through the doors as a fairy which kinda makes us believe that it was not intentional, but then again, why didin't the US get the "fixed" version. As far as we know, when you buy Zelda 2 here in Europe through the Virtual Console, you get the crapy one.

Arctic_Eagle

Edit history:

Arctic_Eagle: 2012-10-02 11:49:41 am

2012-10-02 11:48:42 am

Yeah, right Svenne, that makes sense, the uploader of the youtube video is from Spain.

Heidrage

2012-10-02 12:44:03 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Well I was not sure about any of this. Like in Metroid Prime you want the 1.0 version over the other 3-4 versions. Banjo-Kazooie you want the 1.0 version over the 1.1 version for slope timer reset glitch. I was just wondering if any thing like this follows along in this game. But from everything that has been said, I dont think so. Especially if the top players dont know, I am gunna assume that their is no difference.

Thanks for the responses. I am gunna go get owned by death mountain for most of the night again.

Anyone willing to teach this game to me? Like basic combat strats and such. I want to rout the game myself, but I need to survive to be able to do that...

Svenne

2012-10-02 12:46:35 pm

Smörgåsbord

Quote from Heidrage:

Anyone willing to teach this game to me? Like basic combat strats and such. I want to rout the game myself, but I need to survive to be able to do that...

twitch.tv/svenne1138 right now, feasel and so on are there atm!

feasel

Edit history:

feasel: 2012-10-02 01:39:45 pm

2012-10-02 01:39:32 pm

difficult and stupidly random

Quote from Solairflaire:

For consistency, it would probably be a good idea to go to the next screen right and use the life healer at the start of town. The houses there have windows and stuff in the right places

Yeah i agree with this; more visual cues if you use the life lady. We came to that conclusion in my stream yesterday but unfortunately shortly thereafter my ability to get the healer glitch to work suddenly left me.

So another thought -- is it possible to do a (slightly less optimal) version of the route that uses only 1 healer glitch instead of 2? I've been experimenting with it, and i can get pretty much everything except for the spells/downstab. The "basement people" don't seem to spawn when you've got scroll lock activated. Or maybe i'm doing something wrong? I really hope it's that, because I'd love to just do the healer glitch at the very beginning of the run (so you can reset if it goes badly) and then not have to do it again.

inzult

2012-10-02 05:13:42 pm

I don't know any way to get a basement dweller to come out while the scrolling glitch is active without using left+right to force the graphics to scroll. That doesn't mean you can't do it, it just means I've not been able to find a way!

That said, I don't see why you couldn't run around with scroll glitch active to get all the key items, then use up&a and run around to collect all the spells, then go to Darunia and use fairy. It seems like it would be slower than doing it the other way, but it should still be pretty ok.

Fun fact: you can warp back to Mido from Bagu's hut.

Svenne

2012-10-02 05:26:01 pm

Smörgåsbord

So I'm hosting Zelda 2 races with Ludendi between 12th-14th of October! Ludendi was that Gaming-Community in Sweden that held the ESA marathon! Smiley

Many of the players are members of that community or were runners at the ESA marathon!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av9cBVhuvxNLdG9JVGtPc1c4UTJrcmh6NFdhcUZqbGc#gid=0

I have also asked Zelda 2 players active here on SDA, hopefully we will have some awesome races! Cheesy

Heidrage

2012-10-02 05:31:44 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

I might sign up later this week...

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-10-02 06:57:29 pm

2012-10-02 06:55:57 pm

HELLO!

I'm going to do my best to be in on the racing, so don't worry about being bad at it. Smiley

I'd better figure out how to get some practice in though. I'm fine with being mortal but I don't want to be a forfeit. Smiley