Zack and Wiki (Wii)

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tkrausse: 2008-01-13 12:37:34 am

2008-01-13 12:36:43 am

I'm planning to make my first run on my new recorder to be this game. Executed right, it should do pretty well. I'm planning to segment (segmented to avoid having Barbaros's Land screw up every single run) as follows:

Segment 1: Jungle Ruins
Segment 2: Frozen Temple
Segment 3: Volcano Cavern + Operation: Take Back
Segment 4: Barbaros's Castle
Segment 5: Open Sea+Treasure Island

After my first practice, I was able to do segment 1 in about 15 minutes, broken down as follows:

A Journey Begins: 2:22
Pit of Tragedy: 1:48
Three Colossi: 1:54
Flute of the Growlin' Goblins: 3:41
The Fountain Guardian: 3:07
King of the Jungle: 3:33

Jungle Total: 16:25

If anyone has significanly faster times, please let me know what you're doing to get them.
(These times do not include cutscenes, I'm not sure if they count toward the time or not, but these I skipped them)

Thread title:

RaneofSOTN

2008-01-13 12:53:40 am

I want off the ride....

I got this game too; i haven't really beaten it..

remember you can't skip cutscenes on your first go through. Like zack throwing the rock at the first "big monkey" and what not. So I'd include those videos in all times you do.
The game also Auto-saves, unless there is a way to turn it off.... I know it saves after each level completion.

DeweyIsOverrated

2008-01-13 04:02:29 am

I played this game extremely thouroughly, and I don't know times off the top of my head, but sometime tomorrow I'll look at them and let you know how you're doing.

Make sure you're using the shortcuts/alt routes in levels where you can. In the first segment, you should be using alternate routes in the Fountain Guardian andKing of the Jungle.

tkrausse

2008-01-13 12:15:19 pm

If you mean bombing the fish and itemizing growl, then yes, I did. I'm also going to drop the ice sculpture in Icicle of Prosperity...*is trying to remember other routes**

Sir VG

2008-01-13 12:25:12 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

I got this game too; i haven't really beaten it..

remember you can't skip cutscenes on your first go through. Like zack throwing the rock at the first "big monkey" and what not. So I'd include those videos in all times you do.
The game also Auto-saves, unless there is a way to turn it off.... I know it saves after each level completion.

If nothing else, you should be able to backup your save onto SD cards and just restore it if need be. Annoying, but it a way...

tkrausse

2008-01-13 01:21:11 pm

That's my plan, use my SD card to back up the previous segment. Owing to Capcom's immense foresight, we don't even have an in-game file copy option.

Getting back to the first poster, I know that cutscenes aren't skippable the first time, but I'm using skipped times in practice for easier comparison.

Finally, I have my practice times for segment 2

Keeper of the Ice: 4:58
The Crystal Key: 2:37
Icicle of Prosperity: 8:10
Frost Breath: 4:55

Temple Total: 18:40

Yes, Icicle of Prosperity is a pain. But hey, the time is much better than my 29:XX first attempt result.

DeweyIsOverrated

Edit history:

DeweyIsOverrated: 2008-01-14 04:26:56 pm

2008-01-14 04:24:38 pm

Quote:

I'm also going to drop the ice sculpture in Icicle of Prosperity...*is trying to remember other routes**

Shouldn't you be just going for the ice around the treasure chest? To my recollection, both icicles use exactly the same methods, but the upper one is completely out of the way. It's funny, my first time playing through, I thought dropping the icicle was the default route, but it was actually the alternate.

Off of the top of my head, you need:

Upper: drill, bomb, hammer, mini-icicle, saw

Lower: drill, bomb, mini-icicle, hammer, saw

I'm not sure why you'd be using the upper route in that case. The ONLY item that is even arguably closer to the upper icicle would be the bomb, but even that would only be faster by 1-2 seconds, at best. Carrying the drill, hammer, and mini-icicle to the upper one leads you RIGHT NEXT TO the lower icicle, and the saw is 1-2 seconds away from lower, as opposed to about 6-8 seconds away from upper. With all the trecking, the lower icicle has to be a MINIMUM 1:30 faster, and that's a somewhat conservative estimate. Remember, use the alternate routes when they are faster only.

You can also save some time on Growlin' Golbin Flute (whatever it's called) on the platform that carres you. With practice, you can actually travel a little bit of distance while the goblins are looking at you and not have them... uh.. see you... somehow.

[quote] I'm also going to drop the ice sculpture in Icicle of Prosperity...*is trying to remember other routes**[/quote]

Shouldn't you be just going for the ice around the treasure chest?  To my recollection, both icicles use exactly the same methods, but the upper one is completely out of the way.  It's funny, my first time playing through, I thought dropping the icicle was the default route, but it was actually the alternate.

Off of the top of my head, you need:

Upper: drill, bomb, hammer, mini-icicle, saw

Lower: drill, bomb, mini-icicle, hammer, saw

I'm not sure why you'd be using the upper route in that case.  The ONLY item that is even arguably closer to the upper icicle would be the bomb, but even that would only be faster by 1-2 seconds, at best.  Carrying the drill, hammer, and mini-icicle to the upper one leads you RIGHT NEXT TO the lower icicle, and the saw is 1-2 seconds away from lower, as opposed to about 6-8 seconds away from upper.  With all the trecking, the lower icicle has to be a MINIMUM 1:30 faster, and that's a somewhat conservative estimate.  Remember, use the alternate routes when they are faster only.

You can also save some time on Growlin' Golbin Flute (whatever it's called) on the platform that carres you.  With practice, you can actually travel a little bit of distance while the goblins are looking at you and not have them... uh.. see you... somehow.

tkrausse

Edit history:

tkrausse: 2008-01-14 06:27:54 pm

2008-01-14 06:25:52 pm

I'm going to try attacking the regular block on Icicle. The side effect is, although it is closer, it takes more time on the actual breaking. I'll see which is faster.

In order to make it faster, and annoy myself in the process, Lake of Fire in segment three will be luck-manipulated to find that stinkin' fang piece. Looking can take an extra few minutes, that I don't really have in a run.

tkrausse

2008-01-14 09:15:16 pm

Okay, after trying to attack the regular block, I don't actually think it's faster. While it does cut down travel time, it takes longer to break, which actually seems to cancel the benefits.

Vugmer

2008-02-28 07:32:22 am

Cigar Man

I've been playing this game quite a bit for a few days. I'd love to see a speedrun. Is anyone still working on it?

tkrausse

2008-02-28 12:47:15 pm

I've been very busy this semester, so the run is on indefinate hold for now. Sorry.

MTGjumper

2008-02-28 03:36:11 pm

(Edit before I posted: I just noticed that this topic was a bit old, but I'll post anyway)

Isn't this game better suited to individul level runs? I had been tempted to do som IL runs of the levels, but hadn't yet.

Prognosis_4

(user is banned)

2008-02-29 10:59:10 pm

I'm glad a speed run for this game is finally in the works. Are you planning to do a perfect score run (as in getting the rank incredible for each level)?

alexpenev

Edit history:

alexpenev: 2008-03-02 03:41:40 pm

2008-03-02 03:26:21 pm

I was playing this game a week ago. I think I got the max scores on each level, except one (which is a stupid, stupid level that doesn't make sense). I also played the levels for time. Yeah, I'd say the game is better played for individual levels because of the annoying autosave -- you only get one try at a segment before you have to start a fresh game from scratch.

1:26 Journey begins
1:31 Pit
1:42 Colossi
2:28 Fountain (needs luck... find worm quickly)
2:47 Flute
2:42 King of the jungle

1:54 Crystal key (you can save a few seconds by restarting until you get an almost-solved tile puzzle)
2:22 Keeper (hard to execute but very neat strategy)
6:30 Icicle
3:04 Frost breath (needs luck... 33% chance of starting off with the optimal config).

3:46 Bridge
2:31 Lake (needs luck... find fang in few pots)
3:58 Relics
5:53 Dragon (haven't played this for time)
4:59 Ancient wyrm
6:40 Operation Takeback

2:11 Belltower
3:50 Painted
6:56 Mad science
5:48 Mirror (haven't played this for time)
7:58 Return of Legend

5:16 Great Chase (needs luck... squid jumping)
10:35 Barbaros's Land (needs luck... flake wind)
8:43 Final battle

These are not "initial clear". I skip cutscenes. Cutscenes do count for time. Everything from as soon as the level is loaded to as soon as you receive your "Unpuzzleable"/etc rating counts for time, except maybe loading times. You can't skip cutscenes on your first try so you won't match these scores in a proper speedrun, but try to match them while you practice.

I was playing this game a week ago. I think I got the max scores on each level, except one (which is a stupid, stupid level that doesn't make sense). I also played the levels for time. Yeah, I'd say the game is better played for individual levels because of the annoying autosave -- you only get one try at a segment before you have to start a fresh game from scratch.

1:26 Journey begins
1:31 Pit
1:42 Colossi
2:28 Fountain (needs luck... find worm quickly)
2:47 Flute
2:42 King of the jungle

1:54 Crystal key (you can save a few seconds by restarting until you get an almost-solved tile puzzle)
2:22 Keeper (hard to execute but very neat strategy)
6:30 Icicle
3:04 Frost breath (needs luck... 33% chance of starting off with the optimal config).

3:46 Bridge
2:31 Lake (needs luck... find fang in few pots)
3:58 Relics
5:53 Dragon (haven't played this for time)
4:59 Ancient wyrm
6:40 Operation Takeback

2:11 Belltower
3:50 Painted
6:56 Mad science
5:48 Mirror (haven't played this for time)
7:58 Return of Legend

5:16 Great Chase (needs luck... squid jumping)
10:35 Barbaros's Land (needs luck... flake wind)
8:43 Final battle

These are not "initial clear". I skip cutscenes. Cutscenes do count for time. Everything from as soon as the level is loaded to as soon as you receive your "Unpuzzleable"/etc rating counts for time, except maybe loading times. You can't skip cutscenes on your first try so you won't match these scores in a proper speedrun, but try to match them while you practice.

MTGjumper

2008-03-02 04:39:27 pm

Arguably, Bridge is one that also needs luck, as the lever can have patterns of either 4 presses to somewhere in the region of 10. Those extra 6 will take time up in the little cut-scene bit, and also when inputting them.

Which haven't you 100%-ed?

Prognosis_4

(user is banned)

2008-03-02 04:58:00 pm

So the run possibilities are either level-by-level times with 100% score or SS run through the game?

alexpenev

Edit history:

alexpenev: 2008-03-04 06:18:34 am

2008-03-04 06:14:46 am

^ or level-by-level without 100% score? Often if you want to get the fastest time you're forced to get the max score, but in a few levels you can skip a few things. So the difference would only affect a few levels.

Quote:

Which haven't you 100%-ed?

Return of Legend's mine cart ghost chase. 45/50k. It's not very nice that you need to play for 7 minutes just to reach it, and then not know how the game judges the score anyway.

Prognosis_4

(user is banned)

2008-03-04 06:24:15 am

Quote:

^ or level-by-level without 100% score? Often if you want to get the fastest time you're forced to get the max score, but in a few levels you can skip a few things. So the difference would only affect a few levels.

Return of Legend's mine cart ghost chase. 45/50k. It's not very nice that you need to play for 7 minutes just to reach it, and then not know how the game judges the score anyway.

If that's the level I think you're talking about, I believe you need to minimize the amount of time playing the bell. I just rang the bell like crazy and got an awful score, haven't retried to verify my hunch.

Anyway, while I'm at it, how do you get a perfect score on the racket hits in one of the fire stages? Moreover, how do you hit that giant octopus' arms with consistency?

RaneofSOTN

2008-03-04 08:19:15 am

I want off the ride....

I can't 100% the damn level with the fishing pole, any trick to getting the full points with the fish?

tkrausse

2008-03-04 01:40:11 pm

Quote:

I can't 100% the damn level with the fishing pole, any trick to getting the full points with the fish?

Don't fish. Take the easy method instead. Take the worm to the top of the slide, and drop it. If you are close enough, the frog should jump up and head down the slide. Follow it down, ring it into a bomb, and throw it off the pier. Much easier than trying to fish.

alexpenev

Edit history:

alexpenev: 2008-03-04 04:39:18 pm

2008-03-04 04:27:30 pm

Easier and faster. Btw, if I fix my webcam I might upload a few routes. If you hadn't worked it out yet, chandelier is much faster in Icicle. Most of the routes I used for my times should be obvious, I think, except maybe Jeeves.

Quote:

If that's the level I think you're talking about, I believe you need to minimize the amount of time playing the bell.

Oh, I've tried all sorts of things. Various scores between 25-45k.

Quote:

how do you get a perfect score on the racket hits in one of the fire stages?

For some reason I seem to do pretty good on the 2nd round, so it was just a matter of getting one hit on the first round to set up an opportunity for the 2nd round. Got the max on my 2nd try (about my 10th overall, but the others failed on the first round).
You can either hit early or late and either strong or soft. Hitting early make the ball go left more. Hitting very early makes it go way left. Just practice a bit to figure out the timing. The strength of the swing is easier to gauge... if you play Wii golf or something, maybe you already know some swinging tricks to making consistent strength swings.

Quote:

Moreover, how do you hit that giant octopus' arms with consistency?

Never had problems with this. The arms move in a circle shape. Place the reticule where you know the arm is going to move over, and shoot a split second before it does (there's a tiny delay between you shooting and your invisible bullet hitting). I'd say I'm at 99% accuracy on this thing. Helps if you're into FPS. Again, a bit of practice should see you get the hang of the timing. Once you have the timing, there's not much to do about aiming... it's pretty much direct.

Do you have 445k on Barbaros' Land? I thought that one was a harder than the squid. It certainly took me longer than the tennis, too. =/

Easier and faster. Btw, if I fix my webcam I might upload a few routes. If you hadn't worked it out yet, chandelier is much faster in Icicle. Most of the routes I used for my times should be obvious, I think, except maybe Jeeves.

[quote]If that's the level I think you're talking about, I believe you need to minimize the amount of time playing the bell.[/quote]Oh, I've tried all sorts of things. Various scores between 25-45k.

[quote]how do you get a perfect score on the racket hits in one of the fire stages?[/quote]For some reason I seem to do pretty good on the 2nd round, so it was just a matter of getting one hit on the first round to set up an opportunity for the 2nd round. Got the max on my 2nd try (about my 10th overall, but the others failed on the first round).
You can either hit early or late and either strong or soft. Hitting early make the ball go left more. Hitting very early makes it go way left. Just practice a bit to figure out the timing. The strength of the swing is easier to gauge... if you play Wii golf or something, maybe you already know some swinging tricks to making consistent strength swings.

[quote]Moreover, how do you hit that giant octopus' arms with consistency?[/quote]Never had problems with this. The arms move in a circle shape. Place the reticule where you know the arm is going to move over, and shoot a split second before it does (there's a tiny delay between you shooting and your invisible bullet hitting). I'd say I'm at 99% accuracy on this thing. Helps if you're into FPS. Again, a bit of practice should see you get the hang of the timing. Once you have the timing, there's not much to do about aiming... it's pretty much direct.

Do you have 445k on Barbaros' Land? I thought that one was a harder than the squid. It certainly took me longer than the tennis, too. =/

MTGjumper

2008-03-04 06:15:57 pm

For 100%, I think you have to let the ghosts catch you, then ring for a very small amount of time.

alexpenev

Edit history:

alexpenev: 2008-03-05 12:54:41 am

2008-03-05 12:52:35 am

I had 3 more attempts at the ghosts just now. 45k, 40k and 50k. I was letting them get to me, waiting for a second and then ringing for a small amount of time. Thing is, the 50k was easily my worst one and I did the most ringing in it. For the last 2 ghosts (they came together) I stopped ringing just shy of their vanishing _three_ times (i.e. I could have rung the bell 2 seconds less). Maybe the score is affected by how many ghosts come at you? (Sometimes 1 comes, sometimes 3 at once.) I still don't get it.

In any case, I have 5175000HQ now. Don't know of anywhere else to improve.

Prognosis_4

(user is banned)

2008-03-05 01:34:27 am

So are you going to post some videos of individual levels?

alexpenev

Edit history:

alexpenev: 2008-03-06 05:21:17 am

2008-03-05 03:42:57 pm

Well, here's 2:22 keeper of the ice

2:31 lake of fire

3:04 frost breath

2:42 king of the jungle

Quality sucks (webcam + youtube being lame) but yeah. See if you can beat/match them.