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Edit history:
Shiden: 2012-11-16 10:57:58 pm
Shiden: 2012-11-13 05:53:20 am
Shiden: 2012-03-11 03:22:41 am
Shiden: 2012-02-10 08:39:29 am
Shiden: 2012-02-07 06:58:36 am
For my first submitted run I'd very much like to do this game. For a bit more information about the game check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ys_Origin and http://hardcoregaming101.net/ys/ys6.htm but if you're a lazy clicker then here is a quick summary:

"Taking place 700 years before the events of "Ancient Ys Vanished" (Ys I & II), this game tells much of the backstory of Ys, Darm Tower, the Black Pearl, the twin goddesses and the six priests. The game revolves around three characters as they journey through Darm Tower: Yunica Tovah, Hugo Fact and Thor Fact. Each character has their own motives for climbing the tower and playing through with all three characters will reveal the entirety of the events taking place."

I believe for my first run I'd like to do segmented Yunica 100% on Very Easy, but so far for my first 2 playthroughs with her and Hugo, I played on Normal mode. So I'd like to ask, who has played this game before? Are there any peeps out there familiar with this game? I only know a couple tricks that I've figured out on my own so far, and not aware of any time saving glitches.

I would like to mention Korzic for getting me into Ys games, with his run of Ys Eternal! Doesn't seem like a whole lot of people on here are aware of this great series, which is more famous in Japan. Anyways, let the discussion begin!
Thread title:  
Glad to see someone has an interest in this game!  I'd definitely be interested to see a run of it, particularly since it's one of the more "intense" games in the series (probably diminished a bit by being on Easy difficulty, though - still would be interesting, I think).

Regarding using translation patches, here's what Mike told me when I asked about it for Ys I & II Complete (not the same as Eternal - there's a bit of confusion regarding that, but that's for another time):

Quote:
I agree that the patch will make zero difference in the gameplay, but I still have to say no because this is an unofficial patch we're talking about here.

So, unless the site's rules have changed, it's probably going to be the same for this game as well.  I'm guessing it's this way just in case a translation patch changes some element of gameplay (intentionally or unintentionally), plus the text speed might be altered as a result.  So, it basically amounts to playing an "unofficial" version of the game, for better or worse.

Anyway, while I did recently finish this game, I haven't played around much where glitches and time-savers are concerned.  While I doubt it's usefulness for a speedrun (at least, one on Easy), someone on another forum came across this little trick (to put it in perspective, this is talking about before getting the Fire skill):

Quote:
[...]I managed to get the Thunder Skill's second stone in advance by using a tiny exploitable to reach its chest with wind skill + boost mode (so that I could use it middair minimally 4 times at once). You are "supposed" to get it by litting a torch that would raise a bridge or something, instead.

Perhaps it could be used to make longer jumps in other areas, but then again, it seems like there's not much jumps that a few Wind skills can't clear (for Yunica, at least).

Also, in the area where you get the Wind skill, you're normally supposed to press a switch to raise platforms to proceed, but a well-timed Wind skill jump will let you reach the exit without needing to press it.  I believe this is also the case for another early switch that leads to a chest, but I don't remember if the contents were important or not.

As for actual glitches, I don't know of anything useful, but one I've been meaning to look into eventually is one I've observed in Ys VI (not really useful there, though).  Here's the quote from the Ys VI thread:

Quote:
Also, a minor glitch you might want to keep in mind (kind of hard to explain).  If you use the Wing of Alma while jumping into the various "trigger points" for events, the game will activate the warp (or attempt to), temporarily bypassing the trigger.  The catch is that, for most of these events, the game will only allow the use of the "Warp" function.  So, upon escaping the trial, the game will usually just activate the event then.  However, there was one event I was able to bypass so far via this method, and that is the run-in with Geis after obtaining Ericcil.  However, the effect is only temporary, as the game will just load it again when you return to the Sanctum later in the story (unless you were to bypass it again).  Again, I doubt anything useful will come via this glitch, but it may be worth keeping in mind.

It's the same idea here: try using the Crystal to warp so that the scene will activate, but hope the warp will allow you to skip it.  I know in Ys I & II, even if the scenes would start, most of them wouldn't actually be skipped, and they'd have to be watched normally.  A couple minor ones are actually skippable, but they are really short, leading me to believe that you need to reach a trigger point within the scene to move on with the game.  Hopefully that's not the case here (if the warp even activates, which it may not), but it's something to keep in mind.

Well, that's all I know of off the top of my head.

Good luck if you or someone else decides to do this!
I was able to teleport using the crystal after triggering an event...but when I came back to that place with the event...it just made me start it over again. I noticed that if you jump in a direction then go into the menu that, when you teleport, you continue moving forward a little bit, so it was funny....I was at the tower summit and when Yunica goes "Oh..!" after seeing Dalles, it made me teleport...LOL, pretty cool, but it didn't seem to do a damn thing. Sad But perhaps it might work with a different trigger in a different location...I'll be trying it more later for sure.

When that quote says "Thunder Skill's second stone", he is talking about the second Topaz you get right? I managed to do it after a few tries (first video attachment), where would this save time you think? My brain isn't capable atm of thinking of this advanced SDA stuff since this is really the first time I would be planning a run! :O I also attached 2 videos of 2 little things I discovered on my own before posting here. Second video shows how you can get onto something a little higher than one can normally reach with a single jump, can't remember what is in that chest damnit, LOL. Third video shows how I can Whirlwind over the huge gaps in the Demonic Core area without having to activate the 2 switches.
Here, I made a video for the crystal trick on the Dalles event! So useless but so funny...
Yeah, it's the second Topaz he's referring to.  Regarding that trick, I didn't have any specific spots in mind (the third video, I was already familiar with), as I'm not familiar enough with the area layouts.  Hmm, but maybe the rising platforms right after that area (I think that's where some more are) could be skipped.  Perhaps not both, but I think one could be, as I recall.

That second video actually has some small applications in Ys VI.  If I recall correctly, you just had to jump at the correct angle (in other words, the sword swings might be unnecessary), provided the wall's height was just right.

Regarding the warping glitch, I can't say for sure, but from the looks of your video, it seems to function like in Ys I & II (then again, the pre-final battle scenes might not be the best place to test this =p).  As I said, it seems like the scenes needed to reach a trigger point before being counted as complete.  If any are actually skippable, they'll probably be really short ones, but you'll probably need to advance them to a certain point, so try getting through as much text as possible when you do the glitch.  Then again, even if you can skip scenes this way, hopefully it's worth it time-wise to do so (for the few spots it works in Ys I & II, it wasn't).

Oh yes, I also meant to suggest seeing if you can get through the Devil's Corridor without playing the Silver Harmonica.  To have a chance, you'll probably have to kill the enemies along the way, and hope they drop herbs.
You can't go any farther than the first platform, impossible to keep going without at least raising the third platform, so it seems only the third platform is required to exit the area. As for the first one to get the Topaz early, I don't even need to use boost mode, since 4 WW's do the trick, if timed correctly.

For the height of that wall, you do need to swing the sword, I tried many times at all 3 angles you can face it and it wouldn't work. But if you don't want to use the Phoenix, an alternative is to stand on the pot to the left and WW to it. :p

That corridor is super long, it would take a good amount of HP and luck to make it past without playing the harmonica while grabbing the Cleria Ore at the end...I don't think I'll be trying that. I don't want to go insane.
Edit history:
Shiden: 2012-02-10 08:40:09 am
Shiden: 2012-02-07 08:24:13 pm
Shiden: 2012-02-07 08:17:40 pm
I tried that skipping the first switch after the Water Dragon's Scales, and boy that is going to save some time, eh? From the look of it, might be possible as well with only 3 WW's..

That other switch you mentioned, the second one you come to that allows you to grab your first Roda Fruit, and yeah you can totally WW to it bypassing that lift..Yunica is the perfect speed run character. But I do plan on submitting multiple runs, 6 maybe? Twice with each character, Very Easy and Normal..I won't be doing any% because I am a treasure whore that must open all chests...!! >_>
Oh, I'm just now noticing the 100% goal mentioned in your first post.  So far, it seems like just the jewels, and some of the equipment/accessories are optional, so I'm not sure how interesting collecting those would be compared to an any% run.  That's just me, though.

About the Devil's Corridor, that's what segmenting is for. =p  At the very least, you could recover where the Roo is, and make full HP attempts from there.  Still might be pretty difficult to do.
Edit history:
Shiden: 2012-02-10 08:40:27 am
Shiden: 2012-02-07 08:49:12 pm
Shiden: 2012-02-07 08:35:12 pm
Yeah, I would be: Collecting all Armor and Boots, upgrading them all and collecting all of the skill upgrades. What about the SP buys, what would you consider as an absolute must? Obviously buying all of those would be impossible..seeing as the last one to increase movement speed costs 500k SP, omgawd! I think, Increase SP Acquisition is a must, of course all the armor and boots upgrades (derp) and as many Reduce Skill MP Cost as I can...

Doesn't seem like Increase Stun Effect for Yunica or The Claw would be useful, didn't see that happen all that much...unless theres something special to stun enemies you have to do? :/

As for any%, perhaps it would be feasible on Very Easy mode, because as far as I've observed this game is extremely level/equipment oriented. I've tried fighting bosses at a lower level than a guide I've been following recommended and I just take too much damage and deal too little, of course with lots and lots of practice..I could pull it off, but in the end I believe it would just waste time. I'd rather allocate 3/4's of the time grinding and 1/4 of the time fighting a boss rather than the other way around. Hope that makes sense! That's how I feel about it anyways..
Edit history:
Korzic: 2012-02-07 09:00:48 pm
Korzic: 2012-02-07 09:00:04 pm
All items, equipment, and accessories sounds like a good 100% definition.  All the SP upgrades would be a bit much, even without the movement speed one (which isn't all that noticeable in the first place).  Also, you say you'd want to open all chests, but I think the ones containing SP wouldn't count towards "100%"; they could probably be skipped, unless they're useful of course.

About stunning enemies, I think the most effective (only?) way is to do a downward thrust (works better from a double jump, I believe).

Oh yes, before I forget, here's something I found in Ys VI that I want to eventually see if it can be applied to this game, as well as YsF:

Quote:
[...]it seems that at the bottom of the eastern tower, there's a certain spot you can barely wedge yourself between the stairs and the wall. If you jump into that space correctly, you'll clip out of bounds slightly (have yet to get fully outside). Additionally, you can jump a certain way so that Adol's stuck bouncing around mid-air between the stairs and wall (temporarily - if nothing else, using the Wing of Alma seems to get him free); hopefully I can get propelled out of bounds this way.

While I'm still not able to make it out of bounds that way, I think if the area surroundings are just right, it may be possible.  Basically, I think you'd need to find an object clumped pretty close to a wall, and then try to jump against it a certain way so that it pushes you out of bounds.  From there, the hope is to be able to walk around in the out of bounds area to an exit that might otherwise be temporarily unreachable (outside of potentially exiting boss fights, I don't have any specific scenarios in mind at the moment - need to study the area surroundings more in-depth).  However, I was able to get out of bounds in Ys I & II (via some slightly different methods; don't think they'd be applicable to this game), but the games wouldn't let me use the area transitions; I had to warp out, and continue as normal.  Again, hopefully that's not the case if such things are possible here, but I've a feeling it probably is.
Edit history:
Shiden: 2012-02-10 08:40:49 am
I say all chests, because they're all static. If any chests were say, random spawn containing some sort of random item like other games I would say, hell no I wouldn't open all of them!! LOL. I'm sure the SP chests will come in handy, faster to instantly get 5000 SP from a chest rather than grinding on monsters long enough to acquire 5000 SP. Don't forget warping back to the first level to upgrade her weapon with Rico!

My first playthroughs with Hugo and Yunica I collected 100% and read all the dialogue, not performing any of those time saving WW tricks. First with Hugo, and that took me roughly 9 hours 10 minutes...second playthrough I was more familiar with the monsters and layout of the levels...that took me about 7 hours 20 minutes, I imagine my third playthrough using The Claw will be same as her or a little faster.

As for actually speeding through with Yunica and not reading dialogue and skipping the FMVs while performing those few time saving tricks....maybe 5 to 6 hours? Just guessing, but for my 4th playthrough I'm going to speed it with her on Very Easy...while using Wsplit to time my run.
Edit history:
Shiden: 2012-02-07 09:03:26 pm
I'll keep that out-of-bounds thing in mind...could be possible givin the right circumstances. I'm sure you've noticed, but every Ys game so far has used a different game engine...might not be present on the newest of them. But who knows...
Well, the engines for Ys VI, YsF, and YsO are roughly the same, with (IMO) progressively better gameplay.  So, hopefully some of the engine quirks/bugs are still present here.  After all, the jump you're not supposed to make normally in your second video has basically been around since Ys VI.
Quote from Shiden86:
As for any%, perhaps it would be feasible on Easy mode, because as far as I've observed this game is extremely level/equipment oriented. I've tried fighting bosses at a lower level than a guide I've been following recommended and I just take too much damage and deal too little, of course with lots and lots of practice..I could pull it off, but in the end I believe it would just waste time. I'd rather allocate 3/4's of the time grinding and 1/4 of the time fighting a boss rather than the other way around. Hope that makes sense! That's how I feel about it anyways..


Quote from Shiden86:
As for any%, perhaps it would be feasible on Easy mode, because as far as I've observed this game is extremely level/equipment oriented. I've tried fighting bosses at a lower level than a guide I've been following recommended and I just take too much damage and deal too little, of course with lots and lots of practice..I could pull it off, but in the end I believe it would just waste time. I'd rather allocate 3/4's of the time grinding and 1/4 of the time fighting a boss rather than the other way around. Hope that makes sense! That's how I feel about it anyways..

Yeah, the Ys games are a bit notorious for that, though I'm not quite sure how much grinding this game would require.  That's probably the worst part about planning a run for any given Ys game: when/where to grind.  Still, I'm not sure how a 100% run would be better in this regard.  Even an any% run would likely still need a fair deal of grinding (even if the bosses can be defeated at extremely low levels, it doesn't necessarily negate the benefits of grinding), as well as probably pick up a few extras (the Cleria Ores, for instance).  So, it still seems like the only real difference between the two would be the extra items (which would no doubt help, especially in terms of DEF), and in the end, you'll probably be only slightly better off than an any% (due to exploring more, and thus probably killing more enemies).

In any case, here's another idea regarding the Devil's Corridor.  Perhaps it could be planned so that a level up occurs from defeating one of the enemies inside that particular area.  I'm sure you know already, but level ups automatically restore all of your health.  So, assuming you're quick enough, and your max HP is high enough, you could plan to get the level up fairly close to the sealed ramp (remember, there are required enemies here), which is itself not too far away from the exit to the next area.  The drawback is that you very likely wouldn't be able to make it to the Cleria Ore (well, at least not the return trip).  So, you'd either have to do without it for a while and wait until you reach the next save point to warp to (you wouldn't want to go through the Devil's Corridor again, would you? =p), or plan for yet another level up during the return trip, which would probably require a fair deal of enemy kills in the next area before making the trip.  This still seems like it might be difficult to do, but it hopefully would be more manageable this way.  As always, though, the question is, is it faster?
I just want to get my foot in the door with a solid run, I think after I have something on the site I'll go back and see what could be done better. Like trying to get through Devil's Corridor without playing the harmonica.
Edit history:
Korzic: 2012-02-08 08:42:29 pm
Korzic: 2012-02-08 08:39:48 pm
Korzic: 2012-02-08 06:13:45 pm
Well, the thing with segmented runs is that the verifiers tend to hold the runs to higher standards than doing a single-segment.  Doing a segmented run gives the runner more opportunity to get the best results, so be prepared to have your work judged a bit more harshly.  Depending on the difficulty of things, some leniency may be given, though.

Anyway, I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing a 100% run, or a segmented one for that matter.  I'm just pointing this stuff out because I'd hate to see you (or someone else) do a run, only to have it rejected (note that I'm not saying that'd for sure happen given your stance on things).  Besides, for all I know, all my suggestions/tricks/glitch advice may amount to nothing in the end, but looking into stuff like this is all part of planning a good run (it's painful to do, I'm well aware >_>;).

EDIT: Tried the Devil's Corridor level up thing myself.  Due to having to kill the required enemies, I couldn't get further than the 4th enemy.  I think it's safe to say this isn't possible without massively over-leveling, or would require a ton of luck with regards to herbs.

As an aside, a couple more WW tricks you may not know.  In the Water Prison, you can skip the 2nd and 3rd switches (not the dash one, it seems like) with a well-timed WW, as well as the invisible Mask of Eyes platform in the Flames of Guilt area that leads to a switch.
Edit history:
Shiden: 2012-02-09 06:24:52 am
Shiden: 2012-02-09 06:21:34 am
Shiden: 2012-02-09 06:21:19 am
I was already assuming that it was going to be impossible, just because your HP drains so fast it's a huge amount of pressure to do everything frame perfect, LOL. Anyways, I wrote down what level I think I should be before each boss (this order assuming my first attempt is with Yunica):

Vagullion: 5-6
Velagunder: 7-8
Epona (1st): 11-12
Nygtilger: 16-17
Kishgal (1st): 19-21
Gelaldy: 24-25
Jenocres: 26-28
Khonsclard: 32-33
Pictimos: 41-42
Epona (2nd): 43-44
Zava: 45-46
Kishgal (2nd): 48-49 (47?)
Dalles: 49-50

Funny thing, when I first tried to kill Jenocres, I took a ranged approach with Phoenix...died quite a few times so then I said "SCREWW UUU!!" and went in face-to-face with WW and Thunderbolt, it was SO much better doing that than I thought it was going to be. I also didn't find myself using Boost and Burst as much as I should be, but I'm sure using them at the right times will be a great thing to do. Moar powah! Smiley I wonder what the maximum level is? 50? That's the highest I've been so far, wonder if I should try grinding past that just to see. Hmmmm....

Speaking of the glowing red enemies...actually. I found that when you had to charge up the Evil Ring with Yunica, it was a piece of cake with Phoenix. But my first time through with Hugo, I had to over-level a couple times just to do more than 1 HP damage to those damn undead arseheads. So that there alone saves alot of time over Hugo..damn you and your Eyes of Fukt, I hope it will be easy with Toal as well..
Edit history:
Korzic: 2012-02-09 01:33:58 pm
Korzic: 2012-02-09 01:22:46 pm
Korzic: 2012-02-09 01:21:32 pm
Korzic: 2012-02-09 01:21:06 pm
I'm not nearly familiar enough to know whether or not your levels for bosses are fine or not, but the end result at least seems to be on target (the maximum, by the way, should be 60 - it is for Ys VI, and YsF, or so I'm told).  What I did for Ys I & II was see what the "required" level was to kill each boss (with reasonable damage output), and timed/estimated how long that'd take, and then did testing to see what level I could expect to be while killing everything in my path without losing much time.  If the result was the same as the "required" level, I'd gain an extra one (noting how long it'd take to do so), and re-time the boss fight.  If I was short on EXP, I'd find an enemy group that went down pretty quickly, plus gave decent EXP (not always the highest ones in the area), and figure out how much grinding to do there to reach the "required" level right before the boss (taking into account the later enemies as well).  But as I said, it's a bit of a pain to test thoroughly.

Anyway, I found a better way to bypass the first switch, though it requires the Boost mode trick, I believe (sorry, the audio didn't record for some reason >_<).
Arrrg your video is upside down and made me feel sick watching it, LOL, but yeah I should of thought of that first before trying beside the switch.
Hmm, see if the link works OK now.  I know in Winamp, whenever I compress files (which I didn't do at first with this one), some show upside-down, but the normal Fraps files show up normally.  Media Player Classic seems to play both the normal and compressed ones properly.  Weird.
You should use FormatFactory to encode stuff, if you don't use anri-chan, it can compress/encode/transcode just about any file type out there. I recorded all my clips with Fraps then used FF to encode them to .mp4 with XviD codec, works great! But speaking of this stuff, I need to find something that isn't Fraps for recording my actual run, because the files are just too damn huge! Plus, Fraps uses it's own weird ass codec that shouldn't be used ever.

Yeah I reply fast because all I do is sit in front of my PC watching TV while having the thread open. A ton of free time yay!
I use VirtualDub with the "xvid" codec, but the file size seemed small enough, so I didn't bother compressing at first like I normally do.  And yeah, Fraps does have big file outputs, but I can't seem to get any other program to record Ys I & II properly (a common problem with the games is an inverted colors bug (especially while recording), and only Fraps seems able to record the footage properly), so it's kind of a necessary evil for me.  I don't know if Ys Origin suffers from the inverted colors bug or not, so you may have better luck with other programs.
Edit history:
Korzic: 2012-02-09 10:14:09 pm
Here's that Yunica jump without the sword/axe swings I was telling you about.  You can see on one of the attempts, she kinda floats upward a tad before falling back down.  That's the indicator that a jump like that is possible.

EDIT: And here's the Toal jumps for the final areas.
Edit history:
Shiden: 2012-02-10 10:53:40 am
Shiden: 2012-02-10 10:53:22 am
I'm going to start my practice today and I must say....clearing the game once with each character has unlocked an amazing feature. SP Bonus. Because I cleared the game 3 times I can start with 30k SP if I choose to. This is super, perhaps I should clear the game a bunch more so I can get even more starting SP. It is set at 10,000 SP x Game Clear, so because I cleared it 3 times, 30k..if I could get enough SP to max all my SP abilities....jeez. I'm not going to cheat it by editing stuff, but I don't want to beat the game 10 more times to get a great start on my run...LOL.

Korzic, do you think I should just not use SP Bonus? Or is starting with 30k going to be a great boost without making it too easy..? I corrected all my posts from before, because when I said Easy, I actually meant Very Easy. All those 3 times when I started I didn't see the first option was Very Easy, lol. Since I'm thinking about it now, perhaps a first run on the easiest difficulty would be semi-lame...what do you think? Btw, holding cancel does speed through the dialogue very quickly, glad I don't have to left click like a nutjob anymore...
The SP bonus is up to you; if you decide to do it, it'd likely be considered a New Game + category.  That said, I'd imagine it has its limits, perhaps x15 (one for each difficulty cleared per character) or maybe x30 (clearing with the "extra" version of the characters).  Then again, maybe it is unlimited, I don't know.

Regarding difficulty, Very Easy and Easy both have their merits with regards to being faster, but this being a more action-oriented game, runs of Normal and above would be more spectacular to watch (particularly Nightmare), but they'd also be more difficult.  Again, I don't have a preference either way.  If you do decide on Easy/Very Easy, you may find less grinding is required than on Normal and above, so be sure to take that into account.