You have to win the game (100%)

2013-05-17 12:25:00 pm

Quote from I_eat_tables:

I've found a new route improvement for any%. I've been trying to test it, and I think it saves about a second - but it's hard as nails to pull off and might actually not be worth doing because it's absolutely insane (for me, at least). Because we know how bad my recording is, here's a map.

There was a guy on page one that used the blue route, but back then we thought the fastest route was going up through "the long way around" etc.

And... I'm not sure if this is just me or not, but I just tried a run with CRT-emulation on and it felt like the screen transitions happened earlier than without CRT-emulation. Might be my imagination though, but I did get a fairly fast run (just above 5 min) with two major and one minor mistake. 1. Hitting a bell in the underground and walking through the entire thing instead of deathwarping, and 2. Going up (the red route) and then remembering that I should try the blue route instead... 3. Taking my time with the jumps up to The Abstract Bridge and You Have to Start the Game.

[quote="I_eat_tables"]I've found a new route improvement for any%. I've been trying to test it, and I think it saves about a second - but it's hard as nails to pull off and might actually not be worth doing because it's absolutely insane (for me, at least). Because we know how bad my recording is, here's a map.

[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/la2jp.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]
There was a guy on page one that used the blue route, but back then we thought the fastest route was going up through "the long way around" etc.

And... I'm not sure if this is just me or not, but I just tried a run with CRT-emulation on and it felt like the screen transitions happened earlier than without CRT-emulation. Might be my imagination though, but I did get a fairly fast run (just above 5 min) with two major and one minor mistake. 1. Hitting a bell in the underground and walking through the entire thing instead of deathwarping, and 2. Going up (the red route) and then remembering that I should try the blue route instead... 3. Taking my time with the jumps up to The Abstract Bridge and You Have to Start the Game.

2013-05-19 07:51:23 am

Hey , after many resets i make a 19:29 100% run , and Tables ( when he look my stream :p) discover a save glitch for skip the bad end on 100%run ( this glitch save 4-5minutes), after some runs , i make this http://fr.twitch.tv/roiblanc/c/2304716 , time is 14:49 but this run is not perfect but pretty good ( some minors errors)! Thx to Tables Smiley

Sorry for the very bad Sound quality Sad

Next achievement is probably break my any % pb with news yolo strats!

ps : ibldedibble are you going to start speed running of yhtwtg again ?

Kabuto

2013-05-19 08:55:26 am

Nice trick. But IMHO the "kill" / "die" console command is a border case, thus I don't know whether SDA will permit it or put it into a separate category. If it is permitted, it should also be used wherever it is beneficial for speeding up death abuse, though. (After you've entered it once you can quickly acces it with arrow up in the console.)

2013-05-19 01:47:27 pm

Yes the console time is freeze time , is most fast use console death than normal death ! But for me Kill/die console command is not a border case because the console is use in the normal game ( for the final passworks)

2013-05-20 03:15:44 am

I will at least be practicing it a bit and then we'll see what happens. Smiley

2013-05-21 10:33:32 am

Fire Emblem?

Ah, so that wasn't my route? Easy to forget things from that long ago, I guess :P.

As for the console deathwarp: I expect it would be a separate category. I can see reasons it could be disallowed, though, but I think it's unlikely.

An aside: I've started streaming. I got a 5:04 while merely messing around, maybe I'll push for any% WR at some point.

2013-05-24 07:41:48 am

I ran through the game a few times (didn't stream it though).
Consistently getting about 5:00, but I did get a 4:55 with at one safety save (room below Abstract Bridge), so I guess that could have been a 4:53 or so.

Will stream more later today probably, but yeah, wint... I mean, sub-4:50 is coming~

2013-05-31 03:52:07 am

Hey, after fews any% runs for fun , i make 4:53 with good end ( thanks to Tables for triple jump glitch on tree of you have to Strat the Game) http://fr.twitch.tv/roiblanc/c/2356668 , before the end , the run is perfect , with perfect overall is possible to sub 4:50 ! ( Sorry for bad sound quality , i probably send the video to SDA when my time sub 4:50 !

Tchao

2013-05-31 07:36:02 am

Fire Emblem?

Quote from ibldedibble:

I ran through the game a few times (didn't stream it though).
Consistently getting about 5:00, but I did get a 4:55 with at one safety save (room below Abstract Bridge), so I guess that could have been a 4:53 or so.

Will stream more later today probably, but yeah, wint... I mean, sub-4:50 is coming~

I'm reasonably confident that, while the Which Path route is faster if done perfectly, if you use the safety save, it's slower than doing the top route without dying. So if you're going for sub 4:50, I'd have to suggest taking an all or nothing approach - no safety save on the bottom route. If that sounds too insane (it certainly does to me!) stick to the top route.

Also, Roiblanc vs. ibldedibble for sub 4:50 SDA record, bring it on guys :).

2013-05-31 11:39:20 am

Quote from I_eat_tables:

Quote from ibldedibble:

I ran through the game a few times (didn't stream it though).
Consistently getting about 5:00, but I did get a 4:55 with at one safety save (room below Abstract Bridge), so I guess that could have been a 4:53 or so.

Will stream more later today probably, but yeah, wint... I mean, sub-4:50 is coming~

I'm reasonably confident that, while the Which Path route is faster if done perfectly, if you use the safety save, it's slower than doing the top route without dying. So if you're going for sub 4:50, I'd have to suggest taking an all or nothing approach - no safety save on the bottom route. If that sounds too insane (it certainly does to me!) stick to the top route.

Also, Roiblanc vs. ibldedibble for sub 4:50 SDA record, bring it on guys :).

Well, yeah. But it was the first time I tried it out so. Tongue

Just wanted to get a decent time. ^^

2013-06-06 11:16:57 am

Finnaly ! I got really good run with good overall ( the mistakes are troll jump in castle rock and little choke after you have to strat the game jumps) but actually is a really really really good run !

http://fr.twitch.tv/roiblanc/c/2386721 final time is 4:51

I probably try to send to SDA ( bad sound quality :/ ) and sorry is not a sub 4:50 , but i think sub 4:50 is really reallyhard , im probably close to 4:50 witout the "mistakes" .

Thanks for the help during my progress to Tables and others viewers in my live ! ( 5:03-4:58-4:53-4:51)

I got a breack of this game for a moment !

ps : ibldedibble , good luck for the way to sub 4:50 !

2013-06-06 11:32:34 am

Fire Emblem?

Congrats, that's a really nice time!

Did you have the game speed at normal? The video seems rather slow... and considering you start the run at about 0:03 and win at 6:12, which is over 6 minutes, it seems a little... odd. I don't recall the in game timer being that slow, and there's no reason the game should be that laggy.

And again, do you have a local (no voice) recording? If so, that should be okay, but I'm a little worried about the slow speed.

I saw a few places time could potentially be saved, like jumping instead of just falling in Tower of Sorrows, doing Hidden Crevasse in one less jump and you can do Blue King a touch faster, but those probably add up to 1-2 seconds total. Still, if Ibldedibble wants to get the sub 4:50, those are things for him to consider, I guess.

2013-06-06 11:47:38 am

Yes i look my time is more long than in game time ( because console time is frozen time and probably laggy) Yes i have a local recording . And yes others mistakes withtout i probably can save 1s but this run is good for me but not perfect :p

2013-06-06 12:04:59 pm

Fire Emblem?

The run's about 80 seconds longer than the in game time. Even if we're generous and say 10s of that is console, that's 70 seconds of lag on a 291 second run, which seems... far too high to me? I'm not sure how you can get the game to be that laggy honestly :P.

2013-06-06 12:23:36 pm

Im serious . I play legit.. This add time is only console frozen time and laggy ( but laggy is strange ? i lag very little , loose only 20frames ) Probably because at the end i look during log time my time !

2013-06-06 12:28:32 pm

Fire Emblem?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to accuse you, it's just a startling amount of lag for a game as small as this. Especially seeing as I've seen you streaming before and you never have issues.

Edit history:

I_eat_tables: 2013-10-04 08:15:12 pm

2013-10-04 08:14:20 pm

Fire Emblem?

New skip I recently discovered, saves 11 seconds. But.... it's made me think more about the use of the console and if it should be allowed or not. I can't see anything explicit in SDA rules, but I think it's worth checking out.

Also my PB now is 4:56. Incorporating this, I should be able to get a 4:45 or under before too long, since I know I can beat that PB with some effort. You guys could probably manage a sub-4:40 now.

Betes

2013-12-29 07:26:41 pm

I started playing this game about a week ago and have only tried running any% (I haven't even been able to beat the game at 100%). I also found the skip that I_eat_tables mentioned but have been able to do it without changing anything in the console. It's really precise and not too consistent but it is possible.

Edit history:

I_eat_tables: 2013-12-29 08:41:38 pm

2013-12-29 08:11:01 pm

Fire Emblem?

Whelp.

I also checked in the rules forums - console use is basically not allowed for an SDA run. So that does include the deathwarps, sadly :-/. For the deathwarp after Springheel boots, you could still kill yourself on either Green Man or in the water afterwards, which is a few seconds slower. For Blue King, guess we just have to use this new skip and then find somewhere else to die? Or maybe change the route.

Edit: Okay, tested everything out. That jump seems frame perfect to me. In fact I think it might even be subframe perfect, maybe, judging by playing in slow-mo (frame by frame almost) and still not being able to get it at all (then again this could just be because slow mo isn't 100% faithful motion wise). I did get the jump once or twice in about a minute of attempts.

As for not having the console deathwarps, there are two places you can go to kill yourself. The room below the Blue Aura has spikes, takes around 6.5 seconds to reach (roughly timed). The room directly right of it also has spikes, but the Blue Aura covers them up. There's nowhere closer that you can kill yourself, I think. For Springheel, I roughly timed going forward to the water, or going back to the Green Man. I think both are about 3 seconds. Green Man does seem like it should be a little faster though, but that's easy enough to test I suppose.

Either way the important thing is, this costs 10 seconds over the console deathwarps. That's a massive chunk in a 5 minute game, but it's also small enough I think that the deaths route will still be considerably faster than going through the orb rooms after Blue Aura, and also taking the Blue Aura first route and setting up the deathwarp in Bat Cave. And since the Blue King Skip saves around 10 seconds, that means the time we (er, you guys, I'm only here to look pretty) should still be able to get sub 4:50 with a great run.

Whelp.

I also checked in the rules forums - console use is basically not allowed for an SDA run. So that does include the deathwarps, sadly :-/. For the deathwarp after Springheel boots, you could still kill yourself on either Green Man or in the water afterwards, which is a few seconds slower. For Blue King, guess we just have to use this new skip and then find somewhere else to die? Or maybe change the route.

Edit: Okay, tested everything out. That jump seems frame perfect to me. In fact I think it might even be subframe perfect, maybe, judging by playing in slow-mo (frame by frame almost) and still not being able to get it at all (then again this could just be because slow mo isn't 100% faithful motion wise). I did get the jump once or twice in about a minute of attempts.

As for not having the console deathwarps, there are two places you can go to kill yourself. The room below the Blue Aura has spikes, takes around 6.5 seconds to reach (roughly timed). The room directly right of it also has spikes, but the Blue Aura covers them up. There's nowhere closer that you can kill yourself, I think. For Springheel, I roughly timed going forward to the water, or going back to the Green Man. I think both are about 3 seconds. Green Man does seem like it should be a little faster though, but that's easy enough to test I suppose.

Either way the important thing is, this costs 10 seconds over the console deathwarps. That's a massive chunk in a 5 minute game, but it's also small enough I think that the deaths route will still be considerably faster than going through the orb rooms after Blue Aura, and also taking the Blue Aura first route and setting up the deathwarp in Bat Cave. And since the Blue King Skip saves around 10 seconds, that means the time we (er, you guys, I'm only here to look pretty) should still be able to get sub 4:50 with a great run.

djcj

2013-12-30 08:32:10 am

Quote:

I also checked in the rules forums - console use is basically not allowed for an SDA run. So that does include the deathwarps, sadly :-/

Hmm, too bad.

Fastest run I know is this one in 4:39:
But it includes console death-warps and is muted.

2013-12-30 09:00:31 am

Fire Emblem?

Huh. That gets the tricks, but is really suboptimal - it seems like the runner just learnt the big tricks and didn't bother learning to optimise the route, or they probably would have cut off another 3-4 seconds doing things like jumping before falling down, jumping up ledges the fastest way etc. And the lack of sound really hurts it, since it's impossible to verify if the game wasn't played at slow motion and then sped up. But that definitely gives me hope that SDA legal 4:50 would be possible with the new tricks, possibly 4:45.

Slhgo

2014-01-13 02:40:13 am

Hi everyone,

I am Slhgo the one who posted the 4:39 video few month ago. I never wrote any message in here because i didn't expect anyone to see this video (as you can see it's still not repertoried).

I did submit this run without the background music to SDA but unfortunately they denied it cause of the lack of the game sound. Of course, i understand how important it is to have the sound of the original game but i play live on "Twitch.tv/slhgo" and i just hate playing without music.. So i'd rather not having my run on SDA than suffering of +1000 resets without music. (btw, i still got a raw record of this run with me talking in the background)

Just to ask around, if the game let the player reduce the sound to 0% in the option, having no sound would then be totally legit. Still very annoying to detect cheats and change of speed/fps, i admit it. And yep, not using the console means that you shoudn't be able to type ARC at the end right ? or is there again an other exception :p

Anyway, even tho i have no way to prove that this run is 100% legit i just take this message to tell you that it is and sub 4:39 is totally possible as i did many mistakes and my run is not optimal. Plus, there prob more skip than ppl would think.

I was about to focus on the 100% route, now that i have more spare time. I will probably post a little bit more in this thread and share with you all. I'd be glad to have a longer discussion with any of you Smiley

Cya !!

Hi everyone,

I am Slhgo the one who posted the 4:39 video few month ago. I never wrote any message in here because i didn't expect anyone to see this video (as you can see it's still not repertoried).

I did submit this run without the background music to SDA but unfortunately they denied it cause of the lack of the game sound. Of course, i understand how important it is to have the sound of the original game but i play live on "Twitch.tv/slhgo" and i just hate playing without music.. So i'd rather not having my run on SDA than suffering of +1000 resets without music. (btw, i still got a raw record of this run with me talking in the background)

Just to ask around, if the game let the player reduce the sound to 0% in the option, having no sound would then be totally legit. Still very annoying to detect cheats and change of speed/fps, i admit it. And yep, not using the console means that you shoudn't be able to type ARC at the end right ? or is there again an other exception :p

Anyway, even tho i have no way to prove that this run is 100% legit i just take this message to tell you that it is and sub 4:39 is totally possible as i did many mistakes and my run is not optimal. Plus, there prob more skip than ppl would think.

I was about to focus on the 100% route, now that i have more spare time. I will probably post a little bit more in this thread and share with you all. I'd be glad to have a longer discussion with any of you :)

Cya !! :thumbsup: