X-Men Legends 2

2006-01-24 05:13:29 am

0_0

Well my other idea is out of the question...How about X-Men Legends 2? Game is very simple and it can be rushed like mad crazy with Nightcrawler? Any of you guys played this game got any tips you can give?

Thread title:

illuminated

2006-01-24 05:14:46 am

Good luck.

Nikuvilin

2006-01-24 07:49:11 am

DMC3,ZOE2 and Xenosaga 2.  Am I crazy?

I haven`t played the game but good luck.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-07-29 12:19:06 am

2006-07-29 12:17:06 am

Never give up!

Just noticed this topic a while ago doing a search, and I must say I'd appreciate a run of this game.

Whether or not Repsteve is still running this game (his last post was the creation of this thread, and that was half a year ago at the time of THIS post, so I really doubt he's around any longer), I have suggestions in case someone else wants to run it. Keep in mind, however, these are from limited experience with the game. Anyway, here they are:

You need Jean Gray. Well, her or Magneto, but with all due respect, I think Jean Gray has better abilities (your call though, whether you want From the Ashes, Telekinetic Net, and Mental Vortex, or if you instead want Shrapnel Sentry, Leadership, and Polarized Shield - I mention what I think are the three most useful skills for each character in this case). One of these two is needed because either one, from some sources I hear, can solve every puzzle in the game (as long as you give them a point in Flight).

I suggest Gambit or Bishop as your second member. This is because of Energy Fury, which only these two have. I want to argue that Gambit is more melee-friendly (especially with the right build) and Bishop is more centered around ranged attacks. Your call.

The third member is going to be Nightcrawler, as you said. Get one point in Teleport immediately - as far as I can tell it's the fastest method of movement. After that and before getting Teleport Frenzy, I'm not sure what to say.

As for your fourth member, you have options. If you chose Bishop as your second member, I suggest Toad (in case you don't recognize him, he was also in the first X-Men movie), simply for Plunder. Although he's useful in other ways as well. If you chose Gambit, though, I suggest Iceman as your fourth member for his versatility (which is rather swiftly acquired and will be sorely needed until your team hits its prime). If you don't agree with me on either count, I suggest Juggernaut, since he has both sheer power and a few decent boosts. If you STILL don't agree with me, Wolverine's another option for insane damage. And if you STILL DON'T AGREE.... I can't help you.

(Actually, if you don't agree and you chose Magneto as your first character, I say Scarlet Witch would make a good fourth character. Just remember that a party like that is sorely lacking in the melee department.)

If my suspicions are correct, after the first level (you have a set party for that one, and you'll probably need to switch your whole team following that point) you won't need to switch parties at all.

One other thing. As games that remind people of the Diablo series go, X-Men Legends 2 is VERY fast-paced. It will take loads of concentration to pull this off well. I notice that randomness isn't quite as huge here either.

Just noticed this topic a while ago doing a search, and I must say I'd appreciate a run of this game.

Whether or not Repsteve is still running this game (his last post was the creation of this thread, and that was half a year ago at the time of THIS post, so I really doubt he's around any longer), I have suggestions in case someone else wants to run it.  Keep in mind, however, these are from limited experience with the game.  Anyway, here they are:

You need Jean Gray.  Well, her or Magneto, but with all due respect, I think Jean Gray has better abilities (your call though, whether you want From the Ashes, Telekinetic Net, and Mental Vortex, or if you instead want Shrapnel Sentry, Leadership, and Polarized Shield - I mention what I think are the three most useful skills for each character in this case).  One of these two is needed because either one, from some sources I hear, can solve every puzzle in the game (as long as you give them a point in Flight).

I suggest Gambit or Bishop as your second member.  This is because of Energy Fury, which only these two have.  I want to argue that Gambit is more melee-friendly (especially with the right build) and Bishop is more centered around ranged attacks.  Your call.

The third member is going to be Nightcrawler, as you said.  Get one point in Teleport immediately - as far as I can tell it's the fastest method of movement.  After that and before getting Teleport Frenzy, I'm not sure what to say.

As for your fourth member, you have options.  If you chose Bishop as your second member, I suggest Toad (in case you don't recognize him, he was also in the first X-Men movie), simply for Plunder.  Although he's useful in other ways as well.  If you chose Gambit, though, I suggest Iceman as your fourth member for his versatility (which is rather swiftly acquired and will be sorely needed until your team hits its prime).  If you don't agree with me on either count, I suggest Juggernaut, since he has both sheer power and a few decent boosts.  If you STILL don't agree with me, Wolverine's another option for insane damage.  And if you STILL DON'T AGREE.... I can't help you.

(Actually, if you don't agree and you chose Magneto as your first character, I say Scarlet Witch would make a good fourth character.  Just remember that a party like that is sorely lacking in the melee department.)

If my suspicions are correct, after the first level (you have a set party for that one, and you'll probably need to switch your whole team following that point) you won't need to switch parties at all.

One other thing.  As games that remind people of the Diablo series go, X-Men Legends 2 is VERY fast-paced.  It will take loads of concentration to pull this off well.  I notice that randomness isn't quite as huge here either.

getter77

2006-07-29 01:33:51 am

100% runs=great to watch

It is old hat to say these days....but I STRONGLY recommend you head on over to Game FAQS and pour over their guides and the message board.

For one, it needs to be determined if you'll Glitch Nightcrawler or not...or use Iron Man. Also single seg or not, danger rooms, etc. Really lots of stuff in play.

Otherwise, as usual, Aquatiger is pretty much spot on. Though lots of people always hated gambit and to a lesser extent bishop back on the boards all those months ago....Jean Gray is made of WIN to everybody.

Axel Ryman

2006-07-29 04:22:35 am

We all scream for Eyes Cream

Good luck. Try to not cause the game to glitch and freeze up.

AquaTiger

2006-08-02 04:12:24 pm

Never give up!

I had some more time to experiment with the game, and what I've concluded is this.

To get a time below 7 or even below 8 hours with this game, I suspect just about everything that's not mandatory will have to be skipped. Meaning no danger room, no beacons, no nothing. That's how big the game is.

Also, some other timesavers:
-Do a bunch of levelups at a time - and know what you're going to get.
-Build up a set of skills that works in the early game. Later, after the characters you plan to use are at around, oh, level 21, buy a skill redistribution for everyone and focus more on the endgame.
-As far as gear - I've heard that damage-increasing equipment amplifies the potency of radiation damage, so having equipment pieces that utilize both can result in 'strike and forget' capability.'
-Nightcrawler's teleport isn't useful as a real timesaver until it has 3 points in it. It's not the 'carry allies' ability I'm talking about - it's the sheer range. Until then, diving attacks with certain characters (stronger attack button in midair - I know Nightcrawler and Toad use diving kicks with this) can speed things up.

Another note: would the PC version be considered a different category? Because I have heard that PC users get access to a mutant no one else can play as (Pyro, I think).

Last thing, and it has nothing to do with the speedrunning aspect: Just what side (X-Men or Brotherhood) is Sunfire supposed to be on? I've never seen him in any experiences I've had with the X-Men series (then again, I'm not a big comic reader).

I had some more time to experiment with the game, and what I've concluded is this.

To get a time below 7 or even below 8 hours with this game, I suspect just about everything that's not mandatory will have to be skipped.  Meaning no danger room, no beacons, no nothing.  That's how big the game is.

Also, some other timesavers:
-Do a bunch of levelups at a time - and know what you're going to get.
-Build up a set of skills that works in the early game.  Later, after the characters you plan to use are at around, oh, level 21, buy a skill redistribution for everyone and focus more on the endgame.
-As far as gear - I've heard that damage-increasing equipment amplifies the potency of radiation damage, so having equipment pieces that utilize both can result in 'strike and forget' capability.'
-Nightcrawler's teleport isn't useful as a real timesaver until it has 3 points in it.  It's not the 'carry allies' ability I'm talking about - it's the sheer range.  Until then, diving attacks with certain characters (stronger attack button in midair - I know Nightcrawler and Toad use diving kicks with this) can speed things up.

Another note: would the PC version be considered a different category?  Because I have heard that PC users get access to a mutant no one else can play as (Pyro, I think).

Last thing, and it has nothing to do with the speedrunning aspect: Just what side (X-Men or Brotherhood) is Sunfire supposed to be on?  I've never seen him in any experiences I've had with the X-Men series (then again, I'm not a big comic reader).

getter77

2006-08-02 05:36:54 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Both PC and PSP would probably warrant separate categories IIRC.

Devin

2006-08-02 06:27:59 pm

Nightcrawler is by far the most important person to have in your party. Not only is teleporting everywhere much faster than running or flying, but there are numerous parts you can sequence break by teleporting through walls that you shouldn't be able to get through. You'll probably want to play around with him and see what parts are possible to sequence break, and how many points in teleport you will need to do it.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-31 12:46:19 am

2006-08-30 07:03:54 pm

Never give up!

I know this has been ignored for a month, but I've had another chance to look at the game (I'm partway through the fourth of the five acts) and I have a few more suggestions.

As far as Nightcrawler's usage: I find Teleport Frenzy to actually be useless compared to Teleport Attack for several reasons:
-Teleport Attack works faster and tends to give you more freedom on WHO you're attacking.
-(If done legitimately,) Teleport Frenzy is costlier in terms of EP than Teleport Attack.
-Teleport Frenzy can't be built up much until really late in the game.
-Teleport Frenzy tends to throw you into areas you're not ready to explore yet.
-By this point, Nightcrawler has a MUCH BETTER group-targetting attack (Master of Chaos). (And if you're going to comment on that being an XTreme, the XTreme Tokens aren't all that rare.)

Also, Nightcrawler's first and last sword techs are fairly powerful for the points in the game where they first get use. The second one - the one that causes bleed damage - leaves a ton to be desired.

As far as Jean Grey: Dark Phoenix, unlike what I previously thought, is useless. You'll want Psionic Boom (or whatever her radial attack is) and Telekinesis as her two special attacks, and Mental Vortex as her boosting skill. If you're segmenting the run, there's no need to pick up ANY XTreme attacks (not even From the Ashes), but if you're going single-segment, From the Ashes can be important.

As far as Gambit: I choose him over Bishop because I tend to be a hugely melee player. For Gambit, Evade and Energy Fury are crucial, and I say a staff-based build is the way to go. Prince of Thieves might be viable if you find yourself always having excess XTreme Tokens, but otherwise, I see no need for giving Gambit any XTreme attacks either.

Toad turns out to be not that useful in a speedrun with the above-mentioned three characters - he's GOOD, don't get me wrong, but he's not the best at anything. I'm going to test one of these days and see whether Juggernaut, Wolverine, Colossus, or Iceman is the best bet (probably Juggernaut, just because he's a Brotherhood mutant and certain events require mutants from a certain team). Or maybe there's another mutant that's viable in this particular situation.

In any party, the WEAKEST physical attackers (with this party it's Jean Grey) should get radiation equipment and straight damage boosting. This is because, as I said a while ago, straight damage boosts also affect the damage dealt per instance (I think there's two instances of radiation damage per second of effect, or close to it - there's definitely more than 1.0 instances per second) by radiation equipment. I've seen properly-outfitted characters deal 40+ damage per instance - no joke - after their hits with radiation effects because of this. Even in Act 4, that is a LOT of hit points on normal enemies.

Edit: JUST completed the game for the first time - on easy mode. Interestingly, my level was in the high 30s for the four mutants I was using (Jean Grey, Gambit, Nightcrawler, Toad), so a fairly low-level Apocalypse fight IS possible. My final time for THAT game was somewhere around 11 hours, which is decent considering I viewed every mission briefing, did quite a few Danger Room missions, and got lost numerous times. Sub-7 is DEFINITELY possible on Easy mode. I'll explore how much more difficult it is on hard mode, but before I do, is there anyone else here who's got enough knowledge of the game to verify in the event I do a run?

Edit 2: So much for that plan. You can only play Hard mode after having played through the game once. So I'd have to do a run on Normal first. And with a memory card that has no unlockables accessed as well (no Deadpool, no Ironman, no Professor X). I'd only do Hard mode if I were also allowed to max out the stats of everyone - a sort of New Game +, if you will.

Edit 3: Looking up the powers of the mutants in this game, it turns out that Pyro and Sabretooth, the PC-exclusive mutants, are nearly exact duplicates of Sunfire and Wolverine respectively. This MIGHT warrant a separate category, since you could have two mutants be nearly the exact same in terms of attack power (pretty close to impossible on any version other than PC), but not necessarily. (The PSP version is in fact an entirely different game, thus warranting its own PAGE should someone run that.)

Here's the list of other mutants I'd consider, not factoring in the unlockables:

To replace Jean Grey (if I decide to replace her):
-Magneto (a lot of enemies are mental-resistant and Magneto has some decent powers. Plus, Magneto's the only other character who can solve all needed puzzles)

To replace Toad:
-Juggernaut (insane attack power, especially if I can pick up Widowmaker and/or Path of Destruction)
-Scarlet Witch (Reality Shift and Revitalize. More likely choice if I ditch Jean Grey)
-Storm (this is a real stretch here, because Storm is very weak. However, I could use Will of the Goddess for boss fights)
-Wolverine (whoa, MAN. This guy is so strong, he could substitute for Nightcrawler if the latter's Teleport ability wasn't nearly as fast as it is)

Mutants that are out of the question:
-Bishop (I HATE RANGED FIGHTING)
-Colossus (absolutely pathetic)
-Cyclops (not all that strong, really)
-Iceman (more trouble than he's worth early... MIGHT be helpful against bosses, but I don't think so)
-Rogue (please, she's not strong enough)
-Sunfire (too weak later on, IMO)

I know this has been ignored for a month, but I've had another chance to look at the game (I'm partway through the fourth of the five acts) and I have a few more suggestions.

As far as Nightcrawler's usage: I find Teleport Frenzy to actually be useless compared to Teleport Attack for several reasons:
-Teleport Attack works faster and tends to give you more freedom on WHO you're attacking.
-(If done legitimately,) Teleport Frenzy is costlier in terms of EP than Teleport Attack.
-Teleport Frenzy can't be built up much until really late in the game.
-Teleport Frenzy tends to throw you into areas you're not ready to explore yet.
-By this point, Nightcrawler has a MUCH BETTER group-targetting attack (Master of Chaos).  (And if you're going to comment on that being an XTreme, the XTreme Tokens aren't all that rare.)

Also, Nightcrawler's first and last sword techs are fairly powerful for the points in the game where they first get use.  The second one - the one that causes bleed damage - leaves a ton to be desired.

As far as Jean Grey: Dark Phoenix, unlike what I previously thought, is useless.  You'll want Psionic Boom (or whatever her radial attack is) and Telekinesis as her two special attacks, and Mental Vortex as her boosting skill.  If you're segmenting the run, there's no need to pick up ANY XTreme attacks (not even From the Ashes), but if you're going single-segment, From the Ashes can be important.

As far as Gambit: I choose him over Bishop because I tend to be a hugely melee player.  For Gambit, Evade and Energy Fury are crucial, and I say a staff-based build is the way to go.  Prince of Thieves might be viable if you find yourself always having excess XTreme Tokens, but otherwise, I see no need for giving Gambit any XTreme attacks either.

Toad turns out to be not that useful in a speedrun with the above-mentioned three characters - he's GOOD, don't get me wrong, but he's not the best at anything.  I'm going to test one of these days and see whether Juggernaut, Wolverine, Colossus, or Iceman is the best bet (probably Juggernaut, just because he's a Brotherhood mutant and certain events require mutants from a certain team).  Or maybe there's another mutant that's viable in this particular situation.

In any party, the WEAKEST physical attackers (with this party it's Jean Grey) should get radiation equipment and straight damage boosting.  This is because, as I said a while ago, straight damage boosts also affect the damage dealt per instance (I think there's two instances of radiation damage per second of effect, or close to it - there's definitely more than 1.0 instances per second) by radiation equipment.  I've seen properly-outfitted characters deal 40+ damage per instance - no joke - after their hits with radiation effects because of this.  Even in Act 4, that is a LOT of hit points on normal enemies.

Edit: JUST completed the game for the first time - on easy mode.  Interestingly, my level was in the high 30s for the four mutants I was using (Jean Grey, Gambit, Nightcrawler, Toad), so a fairly low-level Apocalypse fight IS possible.  My final time for THAT game was somewhere around 11 hours, which is decent considering I viewed every mission briefing, did quite a few Danger Room missions, and got lost numerous times.  Sub-7 is DEFINITELY possible on Easy mode.  I'll explore how much more difficult it is on hard mode, but before I do, is there anyone else here who's got enough knowledge of the game to verify in the event I do a run?

Edit 2: So much for that plan.  You can only play Hard mode after having played through the game once.  So I'd have to do a run on Normal first.  And with a memory card that has no unlockables accessed as well (no Deadpool, no Ironman, no Professor X).  I'd only do Hard mode if I were also allowed to max out the stats of everyone - a sort of New Game +, if you will.

Edit 3: Looking up the powers of the mutants in this game, it turns out that Pyro and Sabretooth, the PC-exclusive mutants, are nearly exact duplicates of Sunfire and Wolverine respectively.  This MIGHT warrant a separate category, since you could have two mutants be nearly the exact same in terms of attack power (pretty close to impossible on any version other than PC), but not necessarily.  (The PSP version is in fact an entirely different game, thus warranting its own PAGE should someone run that.)

Here's the list of other mutants I'd consider, not factoring in the unlockables:

To replace Jean Grey (if I decide to replace her):
-Magneto (a lot of enemies are mental-resistant and Magneto has some decent powers.  Plus, Magneto's the only other character who can solve all needed puzzles)

To replace Toad:
-Juggernaut (insane attack power, especially if I can pick up Widowmaker and/or Path of Destruction)
-Scarlet Witch (Reality Shift and Revitalize.  More likely choice if I ditch Jean Grey)
-Storm (this is a real stretch here, because Storm is very weak.  However, I could use Will of the Goddess for boss fights)
-Wolverine (whoa, MAN.  This guy is so strong, he could substitute for Nightcrawler if the latter's Teleport ability wasn't nearly as fast as it is)

Mutants that are out of the question:
-Bishop (I HATE RANGED FIGHTING)
-Colossus (absolutely pathetic)
-Cyclops (not all that strong, really)
-Iceman (more trouble than he's worth early... MIGHT be helpful against bosses, but I don't think so)
-Rogue (please, she's not strong enough)
-Sunfire (too weak later on, IMO)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-08-31 03:16:24 am

2006-08-31 03:02:57 am

Never give up!

Okay.

Since this game is very linear compared to, say, Diablo 2, I've taken it up as my next true project. A run on Normal mode, in segments. (Of course, I WOULD still like to know if potential verifiers lurk out there.)

First party I'm going to test with is Magneto/Nightcrawler/Wolverine/Scarlet Witch (that's right, no Gambit here). This is, of course, after the prelude, which should take around 4 minutes but still gets its own segment. The next test will try switching out Scarlet Witch for Juggernaut, and the last one will have the last spot be filled by Storm. (As far as whether Jean Grey should be in, it'll only happen for the second test - I'm going to use Magneto in that spot for the first and third tests.) After that, I'll have an idea what my party should be like, and can start working on the real deal.

Here's the general plan with each character (with those not in the first test in parentheses):

Statistics:
-Magneto, Scarlet Witch (Jean Grey, Storm): Almost all points in Focus, with a few in Body
-Nightcrawler, Wolverine (Juggernaut): Almost all points in Striking, with a few in Focus or Body once in a while

Skills:
-Magneto: Get one rank in Flight and one in Supremacy ASAP, then boost Mutant Master quite a bit. Shrapnel Sentry will be his main skill ASAP. No need for an XTreme.
-Nightcrawler: Get some ranks in Teleport Mastery, Uncanny Reflexes, and Critical Strike, plus MAYBE Sword Mastery. Teleport Attack and Divine Blades will be the important attacks, with Master of Chaos as the XTreme. No need for either boost.
-Wolverine: Berserker Rage, Claw Master, Enhanced Senses, and Regeneration are fairly important. Berserker Fury will be his XTreme (I should not need Rude Awakening), and I will stick to Feral Slash, Eviscerate, or maybe Claw Frenzy as main attack skills.
-Scarlet Witch: Mutant Master is very important. All three boosts are useful, but I want to boost either Probability Siphon or Amplify Luck. Combustion and Reality Shift are probably my two main attack skills (I may consider Hex Explosion however), and Revitalize is the XTreme.

Skills for those not in the first test:
-Jean Grey: Mutant Master is crucial, but a point in Flight is also necessary. Any of the boosts works, although I think Psychic Fury or Calming Presence will be the important one. Psychic Spike will be her main attack skill (I shouldn't need another if things go right).
-Juggernaut: Might, Critical Strike, and Balanced Form are crucial. I don't need a boost, although Cyttorak Shield might occasionally come in handy, and Path of Destruction will be his XTreme of choice. Thunder Punch, Widowmaker, and/or Crimson Rage will be the crucial attacks.
-Storm: Mutant Master is important, as is Will of the Goddess. Otherwise, it's the Wind path - Funnels, Blizzard, and Whirlwind. MAYBE Static Charge since I have some really high-damage-output teammates and that would just make things nasty. I should have no need for any boosts.

Okay.

Since this game is very linear compared to, say, Diablo 2, I've taken it up as my next true project.  A run on Normal mode, in segments.  (Of course, I WOULD still like to know if potential verifiers lurk out there.)

First party I'm going to test with is Magneto/Nightcrawler/Wolverine/Scarlet Witch (that's right, no Gambit here).  This is, of course, after the prelude, which should take around 4 minutes but still gets its own segment.  The next test will try switching out Scarlet Witch for Juggernaut, and the last one will have the last spot be filled by Storm.  (As far as whether Jean Grey should be in, it'll only happen for the second test - I'm going to use Magneto in that spot for the first and third tests.)  After that, I'll have an idea what my party should be like, and can start working on the real deal.

Here's the general plan with each character (with those not in the first test in parentheses):

Statistics:
-Magneto, Scarlet Witch (Jean Grey, Storm): Almost all points in Focus, with a few in Body
-Nightcrawler, Wolverine (Juggernaut): Almost all points in Striking, with a few in Focus or Body once in a while

Skills:
-Magneto: Get one rank in Flight and one in Supremacy ASAP, then boost Mutant Master quite a bit.  Shrapnel Sentry will be his main skill ASAP.  No need for an XTreme.
-Nightcrawler: Get some ranks in Teleport Mastery, Uncanny Reflexes, and Critical Strike, plus MAYBE Sword Mastery.  Teleport Attack and Divine Blades will be the important attacks, with Master of Chaos as the XTreme.  No need for either boost.
-Wolverine: Berserker Rage, Claw Master, Enhanced Senses, and Regeneration are fairly important.  Berserker Fury will be his XTreme (I should not need Rude Awakening), and I will stick to Feral Slash, Eviscerate, or maybe Claw Frenzy as main attack skills.
-Scarlet Witch: Mutant Master is very important.  All three boosts are useful, but I want to boost either Probability Siphon or Amplify Luck.  Combustion and Reality Shift are probably my two main attack skills (I may consider Hex Explosion however), and Revitalize is the XTreme.

Skills for those not in the first test:
-Jean Grey: Mutant Master is crucial, but a point in Flight is also necessary.  Any of the boosts works, although I think Psychic Fury or Calming Presence will be the important one.   Psychic Spike will be her main attack skill (I shouldn't need another if things go right).
-Juggernaut: Might, Critical Strike, and Balanced Form are crucial.  I don't need a boost, although Cyttorak Shield might occasionally come in handy, and Path of Destruction will be his XTreme of choice.  Thunder Punch, Widowmaker, and/or Crimson Rage will be the crucial attacks.
-Storm: Mutant Master is important, as is Will of the Goddess.  Otherwise, it's the Wind path - Funnels, Blizzard, and Whirlwind.  MAYBE Static Charge since I have some really high-damage-output teammates and that would just make things nasty.  I should have no need for any boosts.

getter77

2006-08-31 04:13:11 am

100% runs=great to watch

Alas, it is Maken X all over again. I've seen about 1/2-3/4 of the game on 2 player with a friend...but none else to completion yet.

One thing that could make a HUGE time difference, providing somebody ever figured/figures it out...would be manipulating for good drops from foes. There was some freaking INSANE eq that could drop of an astounding variety for all characters. Such drops could go above and beyond any low level problems....even moreso than the drops in DII can make or break some situations.

Characterwise, Wolverine is quite broken...and as such might be pretty handy.

FWIW, I wonder how amazing a 100% hardest mode run would look like.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-01 03:38:55 am

2006-08-31 04:05:30 pm

Never give up!

Yeah, the reason I say Wolverine is on my choices list is because his skills are insane AND he has an XTreme that pretty much matches Nightcrawler's (as far as I know right now, Berserker Fury is just about the same as Master of Chaos). I almost want to say he is BEYOND broken because of this (granted, the only puzzles he can solve on his own are the strength-based puzzles).

I'm probably going to do the setup for Hard mode right alongside the three tests (although getting the levels needed for THAT setup might take TWO playthroughs). Also, if I WERE to do a maxed-out Hard Mode run, I'd probably find a way to use every mutant available for entertainment purposes (at those levels, switching teams would make certain areas faster anyway).

Edit: Also, for the time being, my segmenting structure follows the walkthrough divisions of PapaGamer's guide of this game on GameFAQs (which is for the PC version, but pathwise, it's close enough), minus of course the 'optional' missions. I'll have to slightly modify it eventually because of finding optimal places to save, but his guide at least makes a number of the separations for me, so it shouldn't have to be that much modification (by the way, missions that are listed as 'completed with other missions' in that guide will be merged with such other missions). I'll only make MAJOR changes when I find out what supposedly mandatory missions can be skipped (I suspect there's a few where this is possible), the right interconnection of quests, and whether other areas deserve their own segment (for instance, I suspect Madri Temple will have to be split up somewhat).

Edit 2: Tested the Prelude and first part of Act 1 so far with those parties. And up to rescuing Blink, there's not much difference between any of them in terms of speed - as far as the game timer, the Prelude got to 4 minutes regardless (in Easy and Normal, you have a set party for that area, so no Nightcrawler teleporting). At the end of rescuing Blink, I was at 10 minutes for all parties (not taking seconds into consideration, it took 6 minutes for each to go through that area). Of course, that's probably to be expected from a party without any real skills to abuse yet.

By the way, for aesthetic reasons, I plan to use 'classic' outfits as much as possible. (What do I mean by 'classic' outfits? I refer to the outfits that would have been most often seen in the older X-Men cartoon, video games, or comics.)

Edit 3: Change of plans for Nightcrawler. I'm going to probably split Striking and Focus 50/50 on each level up, because having enough EP is crucial to having him go fast.

I don't know if I've said anything on when I level up, but I'll take care of any level increases at the end of a particular segment.

Anyway, here's the deal with Grizzly. Both of the parties that had Magneto as the first member instead of Jean Grey had a ranged character as the fourth member. In both cases, I ran out of health and energy packs, AND almost lost team members. In the party that had Juggernaut as the fourth member, I ran out of energy packs but not health packs, and the fight was significantly easier. In addition, the party that had Juggernaut is one minute ahead at this point in time compared to everyone else, as far as the game timer is concerned. On a side note, I found you can teleport right to Grizzly's location instead of going around, which means you save about 10-20 seconds of walking - this was used with all three parties.

I'm at 23 minutes (except for the party with Juggernaut, which is at 22 minutes) at the Barren Cliffs save right after fighting Grizzly. Also, in the real run, Grizzly gets his own segment due to some of the difficulties I had fighting him (which might have been alleviated a little if I had taken my levelups BEFORE fighting him.....).

Yeah, the reason I say Wolverine is on my choices list is because his skills are insane AND he has an XTreme that pretty much matches Nightcrawler's (as far as I know right now, Berserker Fury is just about the same as Master of Chaos).  I almost want to say he is BEYOND broken because of this (granted, the only puzzles he can solve on his own are the strength-based puzzles).

I'm probably going to do the setup for Hard mode right alongside the three tests (although getting the levels needed for THAT setup might take TWO playthroughs).  Also, if I WERE to do a maxed-out Hard Mode run, I'd probably find a way to use every mutant available for entertainment purposes (at those levels, switching teams would make certain areas faster anyway).

Edit: Also, for the time being, my segmenting structure follows the walkthrough divisions of PapaGamer's guide of this game on GameFAQs (which is for the PC version, but pathwise, it's close enough), minus of course the 'optional' missions.  I'll have to slightly modify it eventually because of finding optimal places to save, but his guide at least makes a number of the separations for me, so it shouldn't have to be that much modification (by the way, missions that are listed as 'completed with other missions' in that guide will be merged with such other missions).  I'll only make MAJOR changes when I find out what supposedly mandatory missions can be skipped (I suspect there's a few where this is possible), the right interconnection of quests, and whether other areas deserve their own segment (for instance, I suspect Madri Temple will have to be split up somewhat).

Edit 2: Tested the Prelude and first part of Act 1 so far with those parties.  And up to rescuing Blink, there's not much difference between any of them in terms of speed - as far as the game timer, the Prelude got to 4 minutes regardless (in Easy and Normal, you have a set party for that area, so no Nightcrawler teleporting).  At the end of rescuing Blink, I was at 10 minutes for all parties (not taking seconds into consideration, it took 6 minutes for each to go through that area).  Of course, that's probably to be expected from a party without any real skills to abuse yet.

By the way, for aesthetic reasons, I plan to use 'classic' outfits as much as possible.  (What do I mean by 'classic' outfits?  I refer to the outfits that would have been most often seen in the older X-Men cartoon, video games, or comics.)

Edit 3: Change of plans for Nightcrawler.  I'm going to probably split Striking and Focus 50/50 on each level up, because having enough EP is crucial to having him go fast.

I don't know if I've said anything on when I level up, but I'll take care of any level increases at the end of a particular segment.

Anyway, here's the deal with Grizzly.  Both of the parties that had Magneto as the first member instead of Jean Grey had a ranged character as the fourth member.  In both cases, I ran out of health and energy packs, AND almost lost team members.  In the party that had Juggernaut as the fourth member, I ran out of energy packs but not health packs, and the fight was significantly easier.  In addition, the party that had Juggernaut is one minute ahead at this point in time compared to everyone else, as far as the game timer is concerned.  On a side note, I found you can teleport right to Grizzly's location instead of going around, which means you save about 10-20 seconds of walking - this was used with all three parties.

I'm at 23 minutes (except for the party with Juggernaut, which is at 22 minutes) at the Barren Cliffs save right after fighting Grizzly.  Also, in the real run, Grizzly gets his own segment due to some of the difficulties I had fighting him (which might have been alleviated a little if I had taken my levelups BEFORE fighting him.....).

AquaTiger

2006-09-01 08:10:58 pm

Never give up!

I won't be able to do much with this game this weekend (at least, until midday Sunday), so I'm going to say some stuff now.

I have not had the chance to do the next part of the test with the three parties, so that will have to wait a couple of days.

When I get my next chance, I am going to investigate whether skipping the deactivation of the seawall bombs is possible, although I suspect it is not. Same with freeing the dirigible.

Also, when the real run occurs, Zealot gets his own segment so I can make CERTAIN the fight goes my way. Remember, most of my parties are melee-focused and Zealot's attacks cause a lot of knockback, making it harder for me to fight effectively.

getter77

2006-09-03 11:56:37 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Just kinda throwing this out here on random but:

Did your choice of party take into acount the special bonuses that certain party combos grant ya? I don't recall what each fo the many did...but maybe some could be useful enough to warrant at least temp duty for some missions?

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-04 12:43:11 am

2006-09-04 12:34:29 am

Never give up!

I've been looking into those a bit.... not sure, honestly.

Half of the parties listed require at least one of the secret characters. Most of the other eight party combinations could theoretically work (Age of Apocalypse doesn't even require changing my party, just their outfits), but I probably would not even bother with Old School (any 4 out of the following: Cyclops, Jean Grey, Iceman, Magneto, Toad, Professor X - the last of which I couldn't use in an initial run) or Forces of Nature (Storm, Sunfire, Magneto, Iceman) because those teams aren't all that strong even accounting for their bonuses (+15% Max EP for Old School and +10 to all Resistances for Forces of Nature).

Femme Fatale (Storm, Scarlet Witch, Rogue, Jean Grey) might be interesting for facing Apocalypse, since their team bonus means 5% of damage dealt is restored as HP for the attacker. Dealing enough damage would at least reduce the number of health packs needed. PLUS every one of those four characters has at least one or two viable skills.

Age of Apocalypse (any 4 with AoA skins, which don't get unlocked until Act 3) is very likely, since the doubled Attack Rating compensates for lower levels AND I don't have to change my party (only Professor X and Pyro don't have AoA skins, and I can't use either one anyway).

After the places in the game that require Brotherhood mutants, New X-Men (any 4 of the following: Nightcrawler, Colossus, Storm, Wolverine, Sunfire, Bishop) might be useful for areas where I KNOW I won't have to solve puzzles for a while, since the +15% Max HP for the team allows greater survival in quite a few areas (if I wanted to use this combo, the only question is whether the fourth member would be Sunfire, Colossus, or Bishop).

I'm not sure about any of the others, really..... but I'm curious to know if BOTH the Age of Apocalypse benefits AND any other combination's benefits can be active at the same time.

I've been looking into those a bit.... not sure, honestly.

Half of the parties listed require at least one of the secret characters.  Most of the other eight party combinations could theoretically work (Age of Apocalypse doesn't even require changing my party, just their outfits), but I probably would not even bother with Old School (any 4 out of the following: Cyclops, Jean Grey, Iceman, Magneto, Toad, Professor X - the last of which I couldn't use in an initial run) or Forces of Nature (Storm, Sunfire, Magneto, Iceman) because those teams aren't all that strong even accounting for their bonuses (+15% Max EP for Old School and +10 to all Resistances for Forces of Nature).

Femme Fatale (Storm, Scarlet Witch, Rogue, Jean Grey) might be interesting for facing Apocalypse, since their team bonus means 5% of damage dealt is restored as HP for the attacker.  Dealing enough damage would at least reduce the number of health packs needed.  PLUS every one of those four characters has at least one or two viable skills.

Age of Apocalypse (any 4 with AoA skins, which don't get unlocked until Act 3) is very likely, since the doubled Attack Rating compensates for lower levels AND I don't have to change my party (only Professor X and Pyro don't have AoA skins, and I can't use either one anyway).

After the places in the game that require Brotherhood mutants, New X-Men (any 4 of the following: Nightcrawler, Colossus, Storm, Wolverine, Sunfire, Bishop) might be useful for areas where I KNOW I won't have to solve puzzles for a while, since the +15% Max HP for the team allows greater survival in quite a few areas (if I wanted to use this combo, the only question is whether the fourth member would be Sunfire, Colossus, or Bishop).

I'm not sure about any of the others, really..... but I'm curious to know if BOTH the Age of Apocalypse benefits AND any other combination's benefits can be active at the same time.

Damien__Reave

2006-09-04 02:12:11 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'm playing through this game with a few friends, so I should be able to verify when you're done, Aqua.

Good luck Smiley

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-04 11:31:27 pm

2006-09-04 09:04:44 pm

Never give up!

Okay, I had the chance to look at the next part.

Speedwise, it is pretty much the same in all three cases. However, I do note that the Dive Kick (hit the Heavy Attack button in midair) with Nightcrawler, when used continually, gives the same speed of movement as the first rank of Teleport. Worth noting now, when ranks and EP are low, and possibly later when I may need to conserve EP for a tough stretch.

As far as Zealot.... I may not need a separate segment for him after all. All three parties have little overall trouble with him. I should note that if you're in the middle of an attack and his Rock Burst hits, you won't be knocked down. Since the AI-controlled characters run away when he does that attack, it's worth using that fact to keep attacking him.

Edit: Apparently there's not very robust checks for disarming the Genosha Seawall bombs. I was at least able to get to Southern Habitats without bothering with that objective. We'll see if there are any other checks for that mission.

Edit 2: I have a couple of issues as far as Lady Deathstrike. If I have Wolverine in the party, I am forced to fight her. On the other hand, since I'm skipping as much as possible (or should I KO just all monsters that have special abilities on my way), I may not have enough techbits to bribe her without Wolverine in the party to avoid a fight (this can only be done with Brotherhood mutants, by the way - this is why I deemed having one so important). As it turns out, the only party I've successfully been able to WIN with at levels this low is the Jean Grey/Nightcrawler/Wolverine/Juggernaut setup - and I suffer the same problems here as the other two party setups did with Grizzly (running out of health and energy packs and STILL barely making it out with everyone).

Judging from this, I think I have my setup. Whether certain other parties help in different areas is something I'm working on.

My first few segments will be as follows:
-Segment 1: Prologue
-Segment 2: Rescue Blink (save immediately after)
-Segment 3: Reach save point in Barren Cliffs
-Segment 4: Fight Grizzly (reuse same save point afterward)
-Segment 5: Get to the save right before Zealot
-Segment 6: Zealot AND Lady Deathstrike (the save point is, sadly, right AFTER Lady Deathstrike)

I'll list others as I develop them.

Okay, I had the chance to look at the next part.

Speedwise, it is pretty much the same in all three cases.  However, I do note that the Dive Kick (hit the Heavy Attack button in midair) with Nightcrawler, when used continually, gives the same speed of movement as the first rank of Teleport.  Worth noting now, when ranks and EP are low, and possibly later when I may need to conserve EP for a tough stretch.

As far as Zealot.... I may not need a separate segment for him after all.  All three parties have little overall trouble with him.  I should note that if you're in the middle of an attack and his Rock Burst hits, you won't be knocked down.  Since the AI-controlled characters run away when he does that attack, it's worth using that fact to keep attacking him.

Edit: Apparently there's not very robust checks for disarming the Genosha Seawall bombs.  I was at least able to get to Southern Habitats without bothering with that objective.  We'll see if there are any other checks for that mission.

Edit 2: I have a couple of issues as far as Lady Deathstrike.  If I have Wolverine in the party, I am forced to fight her.  On the other hand, since I'm skipping as much as possible (or should I KO just all monsters that have special abilities on my way), I may not have enough techbits to bribe her without Wolverine in the party to avoid a fight (this can only be done with Brotherhood mutants, by the way - this is why I deemed having one so important).  As it turns out, the only party I've successfully been able to WIN with at levels this low is the Jean Grey/Nightcrawler/Wolverine/Juggernaut setup - and I suffer the same problems here as the other two party setups did with Grizzly (running out of health and energy packs and STILL barely making it out with everyone).

Judging from this, I think I have my setup.  Whether certain other parties help in different areas is something I'm working on.

My first few segments will be as follows:
-Segment 1: Prologue
-Segment 2: Rescue Blink (save immediately after)
-Segment 3: Reach save point in Barren Cliffs
-Segment 4: Fight Grizzly (reuse same save point afterward)
-Segment 5: Get to the save right before Zealot
-Segment 6: Zealot AND Lady Deathstrike (the save point is, sadly, right AFTER Lady Deathstrike)

I'll list others as I develop them.

Bananas

2006-09-05 01:35:34 am

Not trying to deter ideas for the current run, but I'm kinda working on a hard mode run (with secret characters) because I find it more fun. And I'm horribly unfamiliar with low level characters now.

Due to everyone starting at level 45, we can focus less on money, survival, and levels and more on pure speed:
1. Teleportation - sequence breaking up the wazoo and the fastest form of transportation
2. Boss killing - most stopping points involve bosses
3. Group killing - a few places require killing many weaker enemies. Some other places are timered and have a mad rush of enemies.
4. Energy Fury - 'nuff said
5. Faster movement in town - when teleport cannot be used
6. Might/Telekinesis/Levitation - for puzzles, maybe?
7. Flight/bridges - for puzzles, maybe? Teleport may work?

For teleporting, obviously Nightcrawler is better than Deadpool. He also brings in some survivability (Evade and Shadow Master) and boss killing (Master of Chaos). As we skip through most of the game, XTreme tokens are rare and should not be used against non-bosses. Besides, it's pretty slow.

Energy Fury is either Gambit or Bishop. I choose Bishop since he also moves fast in town. Otherwise, we need both Gambit and Xavier, though they are great characters as Gambit has Evade and Xavier has Leadership.

Xavier can also double up on group killing. However, there is one character that completely levels enemies: Iron Man. With Energy Fury and Motion Amplifier up, he can theoretically kill most bosses faster than Nightcrawler, though some have activated sequences, like Abyss, that Nightcrawler is better with. In addition, Iron Man has both Might and Flight, if they are even necessary.

So the fourth character is pretty much a tossup. Scarlet Witch is useful for Probability Siphon and boxes (free experience is always good)! Jean Grey's Mental Vortex is not as useful due to the free casting bug not working, and her other skills are pretty meh at high levels. Magneto/Cyclops has Leadership and Supremacy/Command, though Leadership isn't very useful and Supremacy/Command only is necessary for Iron Man. Maybe a three person party would be ideal to leech experience (losing AoA isn't a big deal due to Iron Man's ranged and Nightcrawler's Master of Chaos OHKO bosses).

I'm looking at a sub 1:45 run with my tests using Nightcrawler/Iron Man/Bishop/<empty>. Any other ideas?

Not trying to deter ideas for the current run, but I'm kinda working on a hard mode run (with secret characters) because I find it more fun. And I'm horribly unfamiliar with low level characters now.

Due to everyone starting at level 45, we can focus less on money, survival, and levels and more on pure speed:
1. Teleportation - sequence breaking up the wazoo and the fastest form of transportation
2. Boss killing - most stopping points involve bosses
3. Group killing - a few places require killing many weaker enemies. Some other places are timered and have a mad rush of enemies.
4. Energy Fury - 'nuff said
5. Faster movement in town - when teleport cannot be used
6. Might/Telekinesis/Levitation - for puzzles, maybe?
7. Flight/bridges - for puzzles, maybe? Teleport may work?

For teleporting, obviously Nightcrawler is better than Deadpool. He also brings in some survivability (Evade and Shadow Master) and boss killing (Master of Chaos). As we skip through most of the game, XTreme tokens are rare and should not be used against non-bosses. Besides, it's pretty slow.

Energy Fury is either Gambit or Bishop. I choose Bishop since he also moves fast in town. Otherwise, we need both Gambit and Xavier, though they are great characters as Gambit has Evade and Xavier has Leadership.

Xavier can also double up on group killing. However, there is one character that completely levels enemies: Iron Man. With Energy Fury and Motion Amplifier up, he can theoretically kill most bosses faster than Nightcrawler, though some have activated sequences, like Abyss, that Nightcrawler is better with. In addition, Iron Man has both Might and Flight, if they are even necessary.

So the fourth character is pretty much a tossup. Scarlet Witch is useful for Probability Siphon and boxes (free experience is always good)! Jean Grey's Mental Vortex is not as useful due to the free casting bug not working, and her other skills are pretty meh at high levels. Magneto/Cyclops has Leadership and Supremacy/Command, though Leadership isn't very useful and Supremacy/Command only is necessary for Iron Man. Maybe a three person party would be ideal to leech experience (losing AoA isn't a big deal due to Iron Man's ranged and Nightcrawler's Master of Chaos OHKO bosses).

I'm looking at a sub 1:45 run with my tests using Nightcrawler/Iron Man/Bishop/<empty>. Any other ideas?

getter77

2006-09-05 02:48:17 am

100% runs=great to watch

I've heard Ignite+Radiation=Most stuff dead or destroyed real quick in an area.

AquaTiger

2006-09-05 03:35:22 pm

Never give up!

Sub 1:45? Any chance you could detail exactly what is skipped? Because I have a hard time seeing someone get that time up to the end of the SECOND ACT, much less the whole game. Even on Hard Mode, where your levels are souped-up.

Regardless, I'll probably start recording even sooner than I expected, since a run using stuff that's available right away would be needed before a Hard mode run (which is only unlockable after one playthrough).

Bananas

2006-09-06 02:54:28 pm

I've gotten 0:41 at the end of the second act. Each boss is a OHKO due to Nightcrawler or Iron Man and Iron Man so most of the time is wasted teleporting around. You'd be surprised at how many puzzles/fights can be skipped by teleporting.

It's not the levels that makes the difference; it's the powers. Having Energy Fury/Master of Chaos or Energy Fury/Motion Amplifier/Mark VIII Upgrade/Gamma Bolts is a wonderful thing. The only thing I need levels for is more focus, as I have major energy problems everywhere (energy packs don't recharge fast enough).

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2006-09-07 12:54:46 am

2006-09-06 11:05:08 pm

Never give up!

Okay, I've started recording the Normal mode run. Two segments done so far.

And I should note that with the addition of the Dive Kick attack as my main movement form, I was able to drop 2 minutes off of the second segment of the run. My time to that point, read according to the game timer, is thus 8 minutes. I actually lost a bit of time getting stuck in one spot near Blink, but Magneto (I've switched him in rather than Jean Grey because of Supremacy) and Wolverine had the chance to gain a level, and the portion where I got stuck was at the end of the segment and about 5-10 seconds, so I'm taking it.

Edit: Third segment done. I'm at the save point before Grizzly at 13 minutes. I also did the levelling up for the first time - I'm only at level 3 for everyone, so Grizzly might be a little problematic.

Edit 2: Segment 4 done, I'm at 17 minutes before entering the Cerci Tunnels. Grizzly is a SLOW fight with a party of level 3 characters - I use throwable objects to deal damage early, and then just rely on rotating the characters every once in a while to continue dealing damage fast.

Edit 3: Segment 5 done, at 22 minutes right before fighting Zealot. This area took several restarts to get right, I'll say that right now. I think the next part will, as well.

Edit 4: Segment 6 done, at 30 minutes right after the Lady Deathstrike scene. This segment was a little slow, I'll admit it right now. But the fact I had enough techbits to bribe Lady Deathstrike to leave me alone (I had to swap Wolverine for Colossus until that was over, since you can't bribe her if Wolverine - who Lady Deathstrike DESPISES - is in the active party, but I switched back right after that) saved several minutes right there.

Now the easy part is over. From here, I will have to do test runs first before I record. Also, due to the number of restarts, I may have to go to the second tape before the first act is done.

Interesting fact: I'm at a mere level 6 right now.

Okay, I've started recording the Normal mode run.  Two segments done so far.

And I should note that with the addition of the Dive Kick attack as my main movement form, I was able to drop 2 minutes off of the second segment of the run.  My time to that point, read according to the game timer, is thus 8 minutes.  I actually lost a bit of time getting stuck in one spot near Blink, but Magneto (I've switched him in rather than Jean Grey because of Supremacy) and Wolverine had the chance to gain a level, and the portion where I got stuck was at the end of the segment and about 5-10 seconds, so I'm taking it.

Edit: Third segment done.  I'm at the save point before Grizzly at 13 minutes.  I also did the levelling up for the first time - I'm only at level 3 for everyone, so Grizzly might be a little problematic.

Edit 2: Segment 4 done, I'm at 17 minutes before entering the Cerci Tunnels.  Grizzly is a SLOW fight with a party of level 3 characters - I use throwable objects to deal damage early, and then just rely on rotating the characters every once in a while to continue dealing damage fast.

Edit 3: Segment 5 done, at 22 minutes right before fighting Zealot.  This area took several restarts to get right, I'll say that right now.  I think the next part will, as well.

Edit 4: Segment 6 done, at 30 minutes right after the Lady Deathstrike scene.  This segment was a little slow, I'll admit it right now.  But the fact I had enough techbits to bribe Lady Deathstrike to leave me alone (I had to swap Wolverine for Colossus until that was over, since you can't bribe her if Wolverine - who Lady Deathstrike DESPISES - is in the active party, but I switched back right after that) saved several minutes right there.

Now the easy part is over.  From here, I will have to do test runs first before I record.  Also, due to the number of restarts, I may have to go to the second tape before the first act is done.

Interesting fact: I'm at a mere level 6 right now.

getter77

2006-09-07 01:20:45 am

100% runs=great to watch

Decided whether or not you'll make use of the easy bits trick in the Temple that is on the gfaqs codes and secrets page? Or were you ever able to find anything on eq/drops to good effect perhaps needing luck manipulation?...what with the low levels and such.

AquaTiger

2006-09-07 02:15:48 am

Never give up!

I couldn't find such a trick on that page. And even if an 'easy techbit' trick exists, I will NOT use it. All I really need techbits for is health and energy packs. I plan on FINDING all of my equipment.

If I want to try and luck-manipulate for good equipment, I would probably do it around the end of Act 2, or wherever decent equipment that requires a level of 20 starts showing up. I'm probably going to hang on to level 25 or level 30 equipment as well, but I plan on selling anything with higher requirements, because I don't foresee my level going all that far above 30 (the first time I fought Apocalypse, I was level 36) by the end of the game. What I need are any of the following attributes in equipment:

-Radiation damage
-Bonuses to damage that do not specify WHAT kind of damage (which apparently counts it as a wild card)
-Boosts to EP after knockouts
-Boosts to Focus
-Boosts to total EP

Other equipment bonuses MIGHT be useful, but they take a back seat to these five.