Xenoblade Chronicles

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2011-10-27 01:49:45 pm

Sir VG: 2011-10-27 01:49:27 pm

Sir VG: 2011-10-27 09:12:35 am

2011-10-27 03:03:35 am

Fucking Weeaboo

My next goal is to get under 4hrs. How low I push it is yet to be seen, but I don't expect a huge margin below that, though I'm willing to be surprised. I expect the lowest to be 3:50, but even that might be a stretch. We'll see - all I can do is to keep moving forward.

v2 run is encoded, so I'll be working on uploading that to YouTube. Will update this post when it's up.

Found 2 more major mistakes made during the v2 attempt, which both were kinda big. Sub-4 should be a breeze now, barring other major errors made during future runs. Smiley

Sorry for no encode yet. It's taking FOREVER to upload for some reason. My net must suck today.

Edit: FINALLY up.

Aftermath

2011-10-27 08:44:04 pm

Quits halfway

Nice, should we be on the lookout for this in the need verifiers thread?

Tiberius

2011-10-27 08:53:34 pm

Make it so.

Irritatingly, I've not technically finished the storyline myself so would be unable to verify (really busy in work so probably don't have the time to finish it for another month or more) but I certainly wish you the best of luck with this, looks like it's going to be an immense run.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2011-11-01 12:18:58 am

2011-10-27 10:10:36 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Not yet, Aftermath. Too many glaring errors right now (even I'm willing to admit that). But I expect at the rate things are going I should be able to finish and have it submitted by the end of the year.

Edit: Since my old Wii broke, taking my save with it, I'm gonna have to work on starting the game from scratch. So it's unfortunately gonna be a while, but I'm gonna get things back up to where I was and try to get it even better. It'll take a while (and it's really depressing to have lost 128+ hrs of work) but I'll get back there.

Sir VG

2011-11-06 04:09:39 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Found a video showing an interesting trick in order to get large experience and extremely awesome items early. They did it with Melia, but given what it requires, you should be able to do it with Reyn and Dunban fairly early too. Pretty much you lure an enemy to the edge, put them to sleep (if using Melia) then push them off the edge with a powerful attack. If done right, the fall kills them when they hit the ground.

There's another video that shows Reyn knocking off the lizards and OHKO them in the section of Tephra Cave that unlocks late in the game.

Melia sleep-kill:
Reyn OHKO:

I doubt this will make enough difference for a NG speedrun, but it's still interesting to see.

Sir VG

2011-11-26 04:03:48 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

I've been working hard over the last month to restore my save, and I'm doing exceptionally well. In fact, I've also come to understand the gem crafting system, so I'm able to make perfect Level VI gems. So I've actually managed several 25% Quick Step gems (allow for faster movement) rather then the 20% or so I had in my prior attempts.

I've got about half the people at Lv 99, all the advanced art books, and quite a few skills mastered. Still plenty of work on party affinity, but I'm kinda trying to keep Riki low until I get all the gems I want, as it's part of my trick for getting perfect gems. Also, I have another few playthoughs killing all the uniques in order to get a super high number of affinity coins (you can only get 255 on the first playthough max, then 157 more [also max] per additional NG+ playthough).

Plus my save time is actually about 35 hours less then my old save, and I'm much better off. Smiley

Lots of work to do, but tons of work done.

Greenalink

2011-12-02 01:59:16 pm

DS Dictator

Seems like Operation Rainfall has fully paid off because
Xenoblade Chronicles is officially coming out to the US Spring 2012.
Better chances for US gamers to verify but fingers cross they do not change anything major that affect any speedruns thanks to the newer US version.

Sir VG

2011-12-02 11:29:21 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

From what I've seen in the trailers, it pretty much is gonna be the same as the European version except it works on a US Wii. Even NTSC mode was in the European discs. There's nothing really broken in the game anyways that Nintendo of America would need to stop.

As for my current status, I'm working on my 2nd NG+ playthough. I've got one last skill for #7 to complete, and a few arts to level up, but a lot of them are done even. The biggest issue is for some of the gems I want. Some of them have crystals that only appear to be dropped by the uber unique bosses. Which will be fun. Most of my character affinity is maxed, though I'm purposely ignoring #7 to Riki for crafting gems until I'm done with that.

Affinity coins will take the longest, as in order to max them out, I'll have to complete 5 NG+ playthoughs (I kill 142/157 uniques, since I skip the quest only ones and the 4 ubers) and start a 6th. But none of them are really that hard.

Attached is my current Gems plan (note: Spoilers for the name of #7). Right now based upon that I'm missing: Auto-Atk Stealth (2), Heat Sink, Critical Up (4), Debuff Resist, Buff Time Plus, Spike Defence (2), Blaze Plus, Chill Plus, Attack Stability (2). I probably won't need some of those once I decide on final parties. My initial plan was Shulk, Reyn, and Riki, but since I've been playing with the others, Dunban and #7 have some awesome skills. Especially since I have the 10 hit talent attack for #7.

So yeah, lots done, lots to do.

From what I've seen in the trailers, it pretty much is gonna be the same as the European version except it works on a US Wii.  Even NTSC mode was in the European discs.  There's nothing really broken in the game anyways that Nintendo of America would need to stop.

As for my current status, I'm working on my 2nd NG+ playthough.  I've got one last skill for #7 to complete, and a few arts to level up, but a lot of them are done even.  The biggest issue is for some of the gems I want.  Some of them have crystals that only appear to be dropped by the uber unique bosses.  Which will be fun.  Most of my character affinity is maxed, though I'm purposely ignoring #7 to Riki for crafting gems until I'm done with that.

Affinity coins will take the longest, as in order to max them out, I'll have to complete 5 NG+ playthoughs (I kill 142/157 uniques, since I skip the quest only ones and the 4 ubers) and start a 6th.  But none of them are really that hard.

Attached is my current Gems plan (note: Spoilers for the name of #7).  Right now based upon that I'm missing: Auto-Atk Stealth (2), Heat Sink, Critical Up (4), Debuff Resist, Buff Time Plus, Spike Defence (2), Blaze Plus, Chill Plus, Attack Stability (2).  I probably won't need some of those once I decide on final parties.  My initial plan was Shulk, Reyn, and Riki, but since I've been playing with the others, Dunban and #7 have some awesome skills.  Especially since I have the 10 hit talent attack for #7.

So yeah, lots done, lots to do.

Attachment:

Gem Equips NG Plan.pdf

Sir VG

2012-01-29 03:07:17 am

Fucking Weeaboo

A long overdue update.

I've completed leveling up everybody's arts to the max and have maxed out my affinity coins. Everybody's affinity is at max, except Riki. Only his affinity with Shulk is maxed out, since I've been kinda intentionally ignoring him, though I'm working on affinity with people I'm not using him to craft cylinders with.

I've got some more gems worked out, but still need to figure out where to get other qualities for some other gems yet. At least I finally got to ditch my AP Bonus gems, since nobody needs them anymore.

One note that's kind of a spoiler:

Right now, human Fiora is in the 50s. Her level is much less important then anything else, since she'll be involved with a grand total of ONE fight. With Level 8 monsters. The only reason it would be important to get it up more is if the 100% definition is to kill all unique monsters, as there's one that's Lv 73. But her arts are completed as well.

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2012-02-01 01:10:48 pm

Sir VG: 2012-02-01 12:50:21 pm

Sir VG: 2012-02-01 12:41:02 pm

Sir VG: 2012-02-01 11:20:45 am

Sir VG: 2012-02-01 09:47:17 am

Sir VG: 2012-02-01 09:03:02 am

Sir VG: 2012-02-01 08:23:08 am

2012-02-01 07:46:54 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Lv 105 Unique? Beat! Lv 108 too!

Party affinity for Riki to everybody Dunban and #7 is done. Since I'm able to start taking out the ubers, I'm working on the last of the gems I need.

Gems Needed: ~~Auto-Atk Stealth (2) - May change to Double Attack (which I have enough), Critical Up, Buff Time Plus, Chill Plus~~. For ubers, I need ~~Night Vision (3) and Agility Up (3).~~

Night Vision comes from the 105 uber, Critical Up from the 108. Agility Up comes from mining Colony 6 and Ether Mine, but only will be the top tier if the colony 6 nature is at max.

Edit: I should have all the gems I need, although my Buff Time Plus gem for Dunban wasn't what I thought it would do, so I won't use it, but not sure what I would put in instead.

And now the lv 114 falls...and fell really easily too. WOW.
And finally, the Lv 120 ultimate uber has been felled by my hands! Barely, but I did it. Smiley

Tiberius

2012-02-01 06:03:18 pm

Make it so.

Are we going to be expecting attempts pretty soon then? I'm hyped already thumbsup

Sir VG

Edit history:

Sir VG: 2012-02-02 09:28:33 am

Sir VG: 2012-02-02 04:32:34 am

Sir VG: 2012-02-02 02:07:33 am

2012-02-02 02:06:33 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Pretty much once I get done with Dunban and #7's affinity to Riki and make final decisions on party (and maybe some minor adjustments to gems), it'll be go time.

172 hrs+ on my save file. ^^;;
(Combined with the 128+ hrs on my save file before = THIS IS SPARTA!)

Edit: With 173:15 on my save file, Party Affinity is DONE! w00t!

First practice though w/ new settings (only recording on Twitch) - sub 3:45 is in the bag. Still some tweaking to do, but I'm just about there.

Sir VG

2012-02-19 06:51:04 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Everything is done and ready to go, so it's just a matter of running and recording. For the most part, party will be Shulk/Reyn/Dunban. Melia will substitute for Shulk during the post-Mechonis Core Telethia fights and for Lorithia.

Final gem sheet attached.

Attachment:

Xenoblade Chronicles - Gem Sheets.pdf

XenoFan

2012-02-20 03:17:17 am

Hey Sir VG,

very glad to see you're working on this run and can't wait to see the finished product. Good luck to you!

I'm just curious about your skill links and such. Is it really that obvious (like you included all possible "increase movement speed" boosts in Shulk if you're going to do all the running with him) or could you share it with us? Thanks!

Sir VG

2012-02-20 03:26:39 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Some of them are obvious, some are kind of a surprise. I actually developed a program that allows me to sort through the list of all of them, then outputs (right now just to CSV) what I decided to put in. I need to write a better way to format it all, but for right now, it's basically a bunch of CSV files.

The program I coded has 2 modes - 1 that shows all of the skill links and another that I dub "Lv 99 NG+ Speed Run Mode". I went though and removed what I felt are worthless for a general speedrun - things like EXP/AP boosts, skills that are only active for higher level enemies (which there are only 5 at Lv 99 anyways), ones that activate when a party member dies, most defense items, and a couple of low HP ones.

I'll try to format the stuff in a prettier way then show it off.

My streaming/HD recording PC is almost ready to go. Hardware is all put together and I just need to get the software done.

halfbakedprophet

2013-01-20 01:21:00 pm

Sorry to revive a dead thread, but I've spent a lot of time lately routing a NG speedrun of Xenoblade.

I've been routing based on a japanese run (approx. 11.5 hours from NG), but the version differences are quite vast so I've been adapting a lot. The run can be viewed here:

www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12831996

I have written route notes up to Eryth Sea. Here's the current document (really disorganized, sorry) if anyone's interested:
http://www.mediafire.com/?71f82nx9gqqkcqn

As far as I know main version differences are in EXP/AP/SP values from enemies (slightly less in some cases in NTSC), although I've heard NTSC has a 25% movement upgrade (can't tell since I've never played the J version, but if this is true then it's huge considering all the walking and how prioritized quick step is early on in the run). Not sure about other differences, if anyone knows any details please share them.

Sir VG

2013-01-20 01:27:13 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Interesting. I've always been curious about a NG run if it was even possible to do in a reasonable time. I'm also curious as to this US vs J differences. I'll keep an eye out on things, but do please keep posting about this. Smiley

I_eat_tables

2013-01-20 06:19:45 pm

Fire Emblem?

Seconding interest in an any%/NG run. I was actually predicting about 11-12 hours would be about par, good to see that was a decent estimate.

I'm no runner, but I might be able to help route plotting, maybe. I'll give the run a look over this week.

I_eat_tables

2013-01-21 10:16:24 am

Fire Emblem?

Alright, reading through now and jotting down my thoughts as I go (so I might ask a question which is essentially answered later in the notes, sorry if I do). I reckon you probably have an answer for most of these but hopefully I can get you a few improvements.

Pre post edit: Actually, I realise a lot of the comments I make are about where EXP is gained... I guess a lot of my questions are going to be answered with 'it's the most efficient way to get EXP.' Which is fine, but then the question is, do you need that much EXP, or could you use a clever strat to beat whatever it is at a lower level? Also could do with solid numbers for this, e.g. time things take and EXP they award. That's probably stuff I could help collect if it would actually be useful though.

Segment 1) There's quite a few conditional things in there, like 'If X not obtained, do Y' for collectibles. I presume the collectibles in question are for Quick Step 10%, but either way if they're worth getting, they're probably worth RNG abusing to get as quickly as possible. I can't remember how long this game takes to save, but don't be afraid to use more segments if it turns some ludicrous RNG abuse into something manageable. Of course, the time lost from saving has to be weighed into the time saved from RNG abusing, but... yeah. I think it's worth considering.

Trading is pretty slow in this game. Do we really need to trade for that much early game equipment? I think I saw at least two Regnas Gears and a few othes. But the early game isn't that hard, so I wonder if just skipping it would be quicker.

2) Is the H2H really needed? It gives a big affinity boost (600 points IIRC out of 5000 max) so I guess that would be significant if Fiora is a major team component later, or if she has some skill Shulk desperately needs to link (or vice versa). Still 600 points is a 10% chain link boost and not an awful lot else, and chain attacks are abusable if necessary. I guess it depends on how long it takes.

You put Reyn on the left branch for skills... is that really best right now? Heavy equipment is pretty scarce in the early game, and none of his other Enthusiasm skills seem overly important, nor the crit boost from it, so I wonder if one of the other branches might actually be more beneficial (unfortunately I can't check what the order of skills is, as the Xenodoc is not overly well organised). I guess regardless this is going to be a minor thing, but man, in an 11 hour run, we gotta save the frames where possible!

I don't quite understand the Tephra Cave section. Seems like you jump out at some point to trade, then jump back in, but I can't quite work out when you do it and where.

And now I see why that equipment was necessary... er, possibly. To kill Verdant Bluchal. Is that really worthwhile? He has some decent drops I recall, and gives a decent amount of EXP, but even so, I wonder if it's worth the time spent. If it's just for the EXP then, well, maybe okay, if he's the best source of it, but if it's for the drops, note he's at the end of the segment currently. You could either RNG abuse for the right stuff at the end of the segment, save before opening the chest/killing him, or collect it in segment 4.

Segment 3: FIORAAAAAA!

Segment 4: Looks good

Segment 5: When you go to the Berserk Ardun Boss, do you maybe want to hit Kamos Guidepost on the way as a quick travel location? Should save a little running around. Otherwise same comments as always, are you sure you need to make all the trades, could some be cut out, blah blah blah.

Segment 6: Hmm, who teleported Colony 9 onto the Ether Mines ;)?

Are all of those quests worth doing, in particular, the Tirkin Hideout quest(s)? That area's kinda out of the way, although I guess it is two quests worth of EXP/gold... eh, I dunno.

Segment 7: I think this is going to Believer's Paradise, right? It is kinda out of the way... I know secret areas give lots of EXP but it's a few minutes spent getting there. Might be worth checking, I guess, or maybe it gives more EXP than I'm giving credit for.

Ah, I see the reason for the switch to Reyn now. Yeah anywhere with cliffs is good for grinding EXP. I kinda know what I'm expecting to happen in, oh, two areas time as well (and if it doesn't, you can expect to find it suggested...).

Segment 8: Looks okay, except for the grinding to 21. Xord is level 25, right? So could you get away with being level 20 instead? I might be misremembering that.

Segment 9: Oh, okay. Disregard previous comments. Do you really need to be 21 to hit those guys reliably though? Eh, whatever.

Segment 10: Why is the Lizard UM delayed until now? Is he really too hard/that much slower before?

If Back Attack+ and/or Topple up gems would be useful to get, then RNG abuse to collect the collectibles. Might be worth testing/checking what time(s) they appear at more frequently as well, and setting the time to help with that.

Segment 11: Looks good, no questions here.

Segment 12: Yeah, okay.

Segment 13: Obligatory 'do you need to do all those quests' question. Especially actually considering segment 14's abuse coming up, really makes me wonder if it's necessary.

Segment 14-16:Was wondering when you were going to go to the secret area by the waterfall... that seems a sensible time to do it. And yeah, cliff tricking the Gogols, was hoping you'd do that. I think the EXP and equipment from them will be massive in terms of actually running this game. Still, only level 34? I really wonder if it'd be better just to do this for, like, a lot longer. Yes every one takes more time, but the EXP gains are huge. Maybe those Gogol's don't give as much EXP as I remember though (and I seem to recall, the more underlevelled you are, the less EXP they actually give you, so there's that...). Anyway actually testing time lost vs. saved in killing more Gogols seems worthwhile to me. How long does killing one take?

Segment 17: Not really liking calling the Aura's by their positions, but okay :P.

Segment 18: I'm a little confused why we're giving Dunban Heavy armour, but okay, I guess...

Segment 19: Looks okay.

Right, so that's all my thoughts so far... hopefully something I've said is actually useful and I'm not just wasting your time :).

Alright, reading through now and jotting down my thoughts as I go (so I might ask a question which is essentially answered later in the notes, sorry if I do). I reckon you probably have an answer for most of these but hopefully I can get you a few improvements.

Pre post edit: Actually, I realise a lot of the comments I make are about where EXP is gained... I guess a lot of my questions are going to be answered with 'it's the most efficient way to get EXP.' Which is fine, but then the question is, do you need that much EXP, or could you use a clever strat to beat whatever it is at a lower level? Also could do with solid numbers for this, e.g. time things take and EXP they award. That's probably stuff I could help collect if it would actually be useful though.

Segment 1) There's quite a few conditional things in there, like 'If X not obtained, do Y' for collectibles. I presume the collectibles in question are for Quick Step 10%, but either way if they're worth getting, they're probably worth RNG abusing to get as quickly as possible. I can't remember how long this game takes to save, but don't be afraid to use more segments if it turns some ludicrous RNG abuse into something manageable. Of course, the time lost from saving has to be weighed into the time saved from RNG abusing, but... yeah. I think it's worth considering.

Trading is pretty slow in this game. Do we really need to trade for that much early game equipment? I think I saw at least two Regnas Gears and a few othes. But the early game isn't that hard, so I wonder if just skipping it would be quicker.

2) Is the H2H really needed? It gives a big affinity boost (600 points IIRC out of 5000 max) so I guess that would be significant if Fiora is a major team component later, or if she has some skill Shulk desperately needs to link (or vice versa). Still 600 points is a 10% chain link boost and not an awful lot else, and chain attacks are abusable if necessary. I guess it depends on how long it takes.

You put Reyn on the left branch for skills... is that really best right now? Heavy equipment is pretty scarce in the early game, and none of his other Enthusiasm skills seem overly important, nor the crit boost from it, so I wonder if one of the other branches might actually be more beneficial (unfortunately I can't check what the order of skills is, as the [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anx12MiCQejudHJfUWhOTGd5Wm1uS25ub2FDeE5BekE#gid=23]Xenodoc[/url] is not overly well organised). I guess regardless this is going to be a minor thing, but man, in an 11 hour run, we gotta save the frames where possible!

I don't quite understand the Tephra Cave section. Seems like you jump out at some point to trade, then jump back in, but I can't quite work out when you do it and where.

And now I see why that equipment was necessary... er, possibly. To kill Verdant Bluchal. Is that really worthwhile? He has some decent drops I recall, and gives a decent amount of EXP, but even so, I wonder if it's worth the time spent. If it's just for the EXP then, well, maybe okay, if he's the best source of it, but if it's for the drops, note he's at the end of the segment currently. You could either RNG abuse for the right stuff at the end of the segment, save before opening the chest/killing him, or collect it in segment 4.

Segment 3: FIORAAAAAA!

Segment 4: Looks good

Segment 5: When you go to the Berserk Ardun Boss, do you maybe want to hit Kamos Guidepost on the way as a quick travel location? Should save a little running around. Otherwise same comments as always, are you sure you need to make all the trades, could some be cut out, blah blah blah.

Segment 6: Hmm, who teleported Colony 9 onto the Ether Mines ;)?

Are all of those quests worth doing, in particular, the Tirkin Hideout quest(s)? That area's kinda out of the way, although I guess it is two quests worth of EXP/gold... eh, I dunno.

Segment 7: I think this is going to Believer's Paradise, right? It is kinda out of the way... I know secret areas give lots of EXP but it's a few minutes spent getting there. Might be worth checking, I guess, or maybe it gives more EXP than I'm giving credit for.

Ah, I see the reason for the switch to Reyn now. Yeah anywhere with cliffs is good for grinding EXP. I kinda know what I'm expecting to happen in, oh, two areas time as well (and if it doesn't, you can expect to find it suggested...).

Segment 8: Looks okay, except for the grinding to 21. Xord is level 25, right? So could you get away with being level 20 instead? I might be misremembering that.

Segment 9: Oh, okay. Disregard previous comments. Do you really need to be 21 to hit those guys reliably though? Eh, whatever.

Segment 10: Why is the Lizard UM delayed until now? Is he really too hard/that much slower before?

If Back Attack+ and/or Topple up gems would be useful to get, then RNG abuse to collect the collectibles. Might be worth testing/checking what time(s) they appear at more frequently as well, and setting the time to help with that.

Segment 11: Looks good, no questions here.

Segment 12: Yeah, okay.

Segment 13: Obligatory 'do you need to do all those quests' question. Especially actually considering segment 14's abuse coming up, really makes me wonder if it's necessary.

Segment 14-16:Was wondering when you were going to go to the secret area by the waterfall... that seems a sensible time to do it. And yeah, cliff tricking the Gogols, was hoping you'd do that. I think the EXP and equipment from them will be massive in terms of actually running this game. Still, only level 34? I really wonder if it'd be better just to do this for, like, a lot longer. Yes every one takes more time, but the EXP gains are huge. Maybe those Gogol's don't give as much EXP as I remember though (and I seem to recall, the more underlevelled you are, the less EXP they actually give you, so there's that...). Anyway actually testing time lost vs. saved in killing more Gogols seems worthwhile to me. How long does killing one take?

Segment 17: Not really liking calling the Aura's by their positions, but okay :P.

Segment 18: I'm a little confused why we're giving Dunban Heavy armour, but okay, I guess...

Segment 19: Looks okay.

Right, so that's all my thoughts so far... hopefully something I've said is actually useful and I'm not just wasting your time :).

halfbakedprophet

2013-01-21 12:08:39 pm

The first part was actually a 100% ripoff of the japanese run. The only real difference is (even with a few chain attack kills) sometimes I'm a tiny bit short of the levelup and need to grind an enemy or two. When I was routing before I was aware of the japanese run, I made a route that was most ideal for fully completing colony 9's collectopaedia (huge XP boost). The japanese run instead uses a quicker route that nearly guarantees quick step III, which I've adapted.

Early game isn't that hard, but the difference between the default gear and the traded gear is huge. It's mostly irrelevant until the spider queen, at which point it'll be really helpful (and make the battles go faster).

So in Tephra cave we need to collect at least 2 "expensive" collectibles (IIRC, kneecap rock and steel silk? maybe a couple others) so we can trade of Homs Chestplate. It also works out that Paola (iirc) runs by the same place you can trade for a Chestplate, and she trades for the only 3-slot driver early in the game. Using this driver and all the slotted equipment purchased earlier at the shop, we trade the guy near Ether lamp for his level I crystal, then fill all of Reyn's slots. This is one of the most important parts of the early game (and is what obsoleted my route of completely filling Colony 9's collectopaedia), it's a huge amount of experience for a little bit of planning.

In practice runs I've been avoiding the H2H; the japanese run does it, but it seems like a waste of time to me. I'll see when I get later in the route.

Again, with the skill branch I'm just mimicking the japanese run (I'm a creative router, I know). I assume it's in case a gold chest is dropped during the cliff tricking segment (the WR gets an incredibly lukcy 5th drop golden chest; he spends 30 minutes RNG abusing it to contain the weapon and armor he wants). Everything about the cliff trick is broken, but Eclipse Armour is especially insane, so I assume we want a heavy armor skill link in case? Otherwise I'm not sure.

And Verdant Bluchal is just an EXP gainer (and a nice excuse to play "You Will Know Our Names" early in the run :p). He's not a hard boss even without the armor upgrades, and his drops usually arent very good (occasionally drops a good helm or driver).

Segment 5: I think I missed writing that down; I did notice I forgot Kamos Guidepost once and had to walk a long way back. And the quests are the primary source of EXP, they're much faster than any form of monster grinding AND provide some very nice armours (quark and grand are good at this point, Tirkin quest awards grand armour/leggings). I know the trading seems slow, but I timed myself grinding the highest EXP providing monsters around this point in the run, and equipment/exp synergy of trading is actually much faster.

Segment 7: Secret areas are nearly all worth getting (the EXP is HUGE), and iirc there's a quest item or two on the way.

The octopus mechon is a relatively difficult boss; it can easily be completed underlevelled, but that'll extend the battle a good 10 minutes (or even longer). A lot of the stuff at this point might seem roundabout and timewasting, but it really is the fastest way I've found to get to the ether mines after 10+ attempts.

Agreed with the mine-collectible gems, I really wish we had some concrete information on collectible spawn rates/times. This is one of the more difficult sections; every level of grinding is definitely necessary (and even if not, it'd probably take longer doing the fight a level lower and sparing the grinding). Getting past Xord is very painful.

Also bear in mind I've only played up until about Satorl marsh. Everything afterward is just from watching the nico run and plotting what he does. I imagine some of these quests might be unnecessary (and that's the entire point of this run, is to trim the excess off the japanese run), so it'll have to be determined when run-testing starts.

Cliff-trick experience actually scales kinda weirdly. I can't remember exact numbers, but every time you level you gain more experience from a cliff-tricked Gogol. So no matter what level you are when you start cliff tricking it's still the same proportional value (assuming it's not too high of course).

Really appreciate the time and effort you put into reviewing this stuff, I'll try to plot more of the nico run and upload it.

The first part was actually a 100% ripoff of the japanese run.  The only real difference is (even with a few chain attack kills) sometimes I'm a tiny bit short of the levelup and need to grind an enemy or two.  When I was routing before I was aware of the japanese run, I made a route that was most ideal for fully completing colony 9's collectopaedia (huge XP boost).  The japanese run instead uses a quicker route that nearly guarantees quick step III, which I've adapted.

Early game isn't that hard, but the difference between the default gear and the traded gear is huge.  It's mostly irrelevant until the spider queen, at which point it'll be really helpful (and make the battles go faster).

So in Tephra cave we need to collect at least 2 "expensive" collectibles (IIRC, kneecap rock and steel silk? maybe a couple others) so we can trade of Homs Chestplate.  It also works out that Paola (iirc) runs by the same place you can trade for a Chestplate, and she trades for the only 3-slot driver early in the game.  Using this driver and all the slotted equipment purchased earlier at the shop, we trade the guy near Ether lamp for his level I crystal, then fill all of Reyn's slots.  This is one of the most important parts of the early game (and is what obsoleted my route of completely filling Colony 9's collectopaedia), it's a huge amount of experience for a little bit of planning.

In practice runs I've been avoiding the H2H; the japanese run does it, but it seems like a waste of time to me.  I'll see when I get later in the route.

Again, with the skill branch I'm just mimicking the japanese run (I'm a creative router, I know).  I assume it's in case a gold chest is dropped during the cliff tricking segment (the WR gets an incredibly lukcy 5th drop golden chest; he spends 30 minutes RNG abusing it to contain the weapon and armor he wants).  Everything about the cliff trick is broken, but Eclipse Armour is especially insane, so I assume we want a heavy armor skill link in case?  Otherwise I'm not sure.

And Verdant Bluchal is just an EXP gainer (and a nice excuse to play "You Will Know Our Names" early in the run :p).  He's not a hard boss even without the armor upgrades, and his drops usually arent very good (occasionally drops a good helm or driver).

Segment 5: I think I missed writing that down; I did notice I forgot Kamos Guidepost once and had to walk a long way back.  And the quests are the primary source of EXP, they're much faster than any form of monster grinding AND provide some very nice armours (quark and grand are good at this point, Tirkin quest awards grand armour/leggings).  I know the trading seems slow, but I timed myself grinding the highest EXP providing monsters around this point in the run, and equipment/exp synergy of trading is actually much faster.

Segment 7: Secret areas are nearly all worth getting (the EXP is HUGE), and iirc there's a quest item or two on the way.

The octopus mechon is a relatively difficult boss; it can easily be completed underlevelled, but that'll extend the battle a good 10 minutes (or even longer).  A lot of the stuff at this point might seem roundabout and timewasting, but it really is the fastest way I've found to get to the ether mines after 10+ attempts.

Agreed with the mine-collectible gems, I really wish we had some concrete information on collectible spawn rates/times.  This is one of the more difficult sections; every level of grinding is definitely necessary (and even if not, it'd probably take longer doing the fight a level lower and sparing the grinding).  Getting past Xord is very painful.

Also bear in mind I've only played up until about Satorl marsh.  Everything afterward is just from watching the nico run and plotting what he does.  I imagine some of these quests might be unnecessary (and that's the entire point of this run, is to trim the excess off the japanese run), so it'll have to be determined when run-testing starts.

Cliff-trick experience actually scales kinda weirdly.  I can't remember exact numbers, but every time you level you gain more experience from a cliff-tricked Gogol.  So no matter what level you are when you start cliff tricking it's still the same proportional value (assuming it's not too high of course).

Really appreciate the time and effort you put into reviewing this stuff, I'll try to plot more of the nico run and upload it.

I_eat_tables

Edit history:

I_eat_tables: 2013-01-21 01:39:04 pm

2013-01-21 01:27:43 pm

Fire Emblem?

Ah, okay. It really IS a shame there are so many missing details about this game. I know there's a fantastic guide that has lots of under-the-bonnet type information about things (including equations for things like chain attack rates, affinity and the like) but there's two problems, firstly being that it's in Japanese, and secondly being it's expensive. If I could see that, oh, filling all the gem slots gave you a ton of necessary EXP, that'd be cool, I wouldn't need to mention it.

It's also good to see you're testing these things - that's always necessary to get a good run. I can believe Secret Areas being hugely worthwhile, I wasn't convinced at myself when I mentioned it actually. Heavy Armour I think is definitely good, my main issue is whether it's worth getting immediately - maybe getting another skill and switching at some oppertune time to Enthusiasm (e.g. while changing skill links) would be better? I guess it would be a more efficient use of SP, but that doesn't necessarily mean time will be saved, and either way I suspect it's a minor thing.

Oh, and I didn't measure anything, but I watched segment 1 of the run and the movement speed didn't look noticeably different to me. It could still be like +/- 10% or something, though. If you want to, you could mimic his path through the collectibles near the junk site (when you first play as Shulk/Reyn) and see if there's a significant time difference.

It might be worth making a mock run (sightly less optimised for RNG stuff and action, but attempting to complete the route as accurately as possible) to see if/where the planning needs adjustment. The upside is it could help shave minutes off the final run, especially if we catch some serious route flaw in the process. The downside of course is you need to spend at least 11 hours making the video and likely more as each segment will still need a few tries, and then upload it etc.. If you've got the capability to do it tough it could prove very helpful.

Edit: Just to add, the H2H took about 33 seconds, give or take, in the Japanese version. That seems like a lot, but it's pretty hard at this point to estimate what it might save (if anything).

Ah, okay. It really IS a shame there are so many missing details about this game. I know there's a fantastic guide that has lots of under-the-bonnet type information about things (including equations for things like chain attack rates, affinity and the like) but there's two problems, firstly being that it's in Japanese, and secondly being it's expensive. If I could see that, oh, filling all the gem slots gave you a ton of necessary EXP, that'd be cool, I wouldn't need to mention it.

It's also good to see you're testing these things - that's always necessary to get a good run. I can believe Secret Areas being hugely worthwhile, I wasn't convinced at myself when I mentioned it actually. Heavy Armour I think is definitely good, my main issue is whether it's worth getting immediately - maybe getting another skill and switching at some oppertune time to Enthusiasm (e.g. while changing skill links) would be better? I guess it would be a more efficient use of SP, but that doesn't necessarily mean time will be saved, and either way I suspect it's a minor thing.

Oh, and I didn't measure anything, but I watched segment 1 of the run and the movement speed didn't look noticeably different to me. It could still be like +/- 10% or something, though. If you want to, you could mimic his path through the collectibles near the junk site (when you first play as Shulk/Reyn) and see if there's a significant time difference.

It might be worth making a mock run (sightly less optimised for RNG stuff and action, but attempting to complete the route as accurately as possible) to see if/where the planning needs adjustment. The upside is it could help shave minutes off the final run, especially if we catch some serious route flaw in the process. The downside of course is you need to spend at least 11 hours making the video and likely more as each segment will still need a few tries, and then upload it etc.. If you've got the capability to do it tough it could prove very helpful.

Edit: Just to add, the H2H took about 33 seconds, give or take, in the Japanese version. That seems like a lot, but it's pretty hard at this point to estimate what it might save (if anything).

Sir VG

2013-01-21 01:50:45 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

I can't remember how long this game takes to save, but don't be afraid to use more segments if it turns some ludicrous RNG abuse into something manageable.

Saving itself doesn't take too long, maybe 10 seconds. The problem is that collectables don't appear for 1 minute after you load a save, if I recall correctly.

I_eat_tables

2013-01-21 01:54:23 pm

Fire Emblem?

Hmm... I don't know if that's entirely accurate, but even if it is, you can work around it. Still 10 seconds per save, okay, so then we want every save we make to be able to shave off 10 seconds with manipulations and stuff.

halfbakedprophet

2013-01-21 01:56:15 pm

I believe it's faster to exit the game and relaunch for collectibles (at least, that's what I remember doing for black liver bean -_-). It takes at least a minute or two for collectibles to respawn after reloading a file ingame (if not longer).

I_eat_tables

2013-01-21 01:57:47 pm

Fire Emblem?

Do you mean that if you load a save from reset, collectibles will appear quickly/quicker? If so, then we definitely don't have a problem.