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Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-01 10:47:39 pm
The original, since 2003.
Yeah I noticed that - I didn't buy it yet,mainly because I don't have any available funds to spend right now.  I'm not sure what the SDA ruling on this would be.  I would assume though that if you bought a legal copy of  the game, then it could be considered for a record here, regardless of the platform it runs on.  Even if said legal copy ran on an "official emulator" of sorts that was sanctioned by Sega or Steam.

I suppose this might be PM worthy of an admin or the question being asked over on the Tech Support forum.
Quote from Traysandor:
Yeah I noticed that - I didn't buy it yet,mainly because I don't have any available funds to spend right now.  I'm not sure what the SDA ruling on this would be.  I would assume though that if you bought a legal copy of  the game, then it could be considered for a record here, regardless of the platform it runs on.  Even if said legal copy ran on an "official emulator" of sorts that was sanctioned by Sega or Steam.

I suppose this might be PM worthy of an admin or the question being asked over on the Tech Support forum.


I did start a thread a while back but decided not to persue because I decided VC was a safer option. I know if your monitor refreshes at a different rate than 60hz (or 50hz for Alien Soldier) that you can cause some speed issues (after some investigation when it was off/on happening to me.)
http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/recording_classic_games_played_through_steam.html

Anyways, I'm not sure if this strat might be relevant to the actual game but this might be good at times for snow bomber... unless you softlock it like I did Smiley

Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-01 11:16:52 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-01 11:15:12 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-01 11:13:36 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-01 11:09:21 pm
The original, since 2003.
Judging by the topic link you posted, they'd at least be willing to consider it.  I know there'd be some technical issues involved.  and I think segmented speedrunning this game would be a no-go on the Steam version because of potential issues with save states.  That said, I think if someone was going the official emulator route, it would have to be single segment only and not bother to use the savestate system.


Back to the video you posted, I'm not sure if that would be faster to kill vs. the method in dethwing's run (he uses Thunder to stop the boss from blowing the minions, then Power to kill the boss).  I could see it being handy if Ice Bomber decides to charge first, but if I remember correctly I think he only does that after blowing the minions.  I don't know if that will work if you stun the boss with the Thunder Spell (negating the minions he spawns).  It would be worth creating a save state, then fighting the boss a few dozen times in casual play to get an idea on how he acts.

And I get the general point of what you're trying to do, though that fight does look a bit on the sloppy side.  That might be something worth looking into for a segmented run, but even then if you don't get a good pattern for that you'd have to redo the entire Ice Palace, which in itself is a good 5-10 minutes per attempt.
Woh, getting to the right side of him? Didn't think of that. See, this is just why I wanted to get some more heads into this. I'll see if I can slide under him and still cancel his iceball attacks.

Reason I don't do it in the refight is because you need thunder more for biomeka, and firestorm does a decent enough job at doing the same thing vs the ice bomber.
Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 11:08:06 am
The original, since 2003.
Well that and the Legendary Sword kills him fast enough in the refight.

I don't think there's much else you can do in the other boss fights to speed them up aside from buying the upgraded weapons (which would not be condusive for the initial runs of the dungeon).  I suppose you could get better RNG for how the bosses act (Myconoid and the Dragon Boss, and maybe getting better questions from the Sphinx?  I'm pretty sure the game has a list of questions that Sphinx asks at random, and he has the slowest speaking speed of the game by far).  Also maybe use Power against both the second and third heads of Demon King to speed the fight up a few seconds. (Especially if you know you're going to rest at the Inn before going to the final area)
Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:36:56 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:36:33 pm
The original, since 2003.
Well, I decided to pick up an emulator copy for the time being just to test some stuff out.

... I didn't realize it was possible to have exactly 0 hearts left showing on the life counter and not use an Elixir or Game Over.  Maybe it's just a glitch with the version I'm using with something.  (For the record, I was doing a low% casual run, and it happened when I fought the rock boss, I had 0 hearts left when I dealt the finishing blow)
Edit history:
Hsanrb: 2012-12-02 02:35:37 pm
Quote from Traysandor:
Well, I decided to pick up an emulator copy for the time being just to test some stuff out.

... I didn't realize it was possible to have exactly 0 hearts left showing on the life counter and not use an Elixir or Game Over.  Maybe it's just a glitch with the version I'm using with something.  (For the record, I was doing a low% casual run, and it happened when I fought the rock boss, I had 0 hearts left when I dealt the finishing blow)


Its probably just one of those fractional hearts so small you can't see it. Lots of games with bars of a life gauge have it, some track fractional damage and only show full integers.

Edit: I thought about running this game at some point, but I've spent the past 5-6 months running games with friends. I might play this again but the final boss turns me off every time.
Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 03:42:42 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 03:04:58 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 03:02:07 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:56:13 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:53:56 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:53:42 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:50:11 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:49:41 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:48:40 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-02 02:42:19 pm
The original, since 2003.
Maybe, could be that yeah.

Also I've figured out it's possible to cross the desert without having the Desert Boots, but you need a bare minimum of 7 hearts, the Elixir, and a Potion to do so. (You can get all of this without having to go to Atlantis, or if you grab the one at Atlantis, you'd have to grab the Heart from either the second dungeon or use the secret door in the castle area between Alsedo and Purapil).

Even then, you will either die or just barely make it across with 1/4 heart left, and your items used. You'd pretty much have to do the pyramid on no hearts until you find the Elixir chest (Elixir chests contains a full health heart if you already have an Elixir).  Anyways, in a Single Segment run, you pretty much have to get the Desert Boots or you run a pretty high chance of dying in the Desert.

Related Secret Door is hidden on the far right hand screen of the connector tunnel, near the exit for Alsedo. You need the Trident to use the door because the door is hidden underwater.  It's a bit out of the way though, and in 100% the best time to grab it is just before you head to Ice World, which means Atlantis and the Pyramid would have been done anyway.
Yeah, I'm not going for oasis boots skip. Too risky. I may try skipping the small spear and armor before going to the sewers at some point. This would let me have enough to get the marine boots before going into the 2nd dungeon.
Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:40:31 am
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:38:19 am
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:34:03 am
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:30:47 am
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:24:47 am
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:21:11 am
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:19:50 am
Traysandor: 2012-12-03 10:18:03 am
The original, since 2003.
Yeah, I think the Oasis boots skip is pretty much TAS-only.  I watched a TAS of the game and there's literally no wiggle room in the desert section - the runner barely survives with 6 hearts and you pretty much can't take any damage in the Pyramid or getting to the Dragon town.  I suppose it would be easier if you got all of the possible hearts between the game start and Atlantis (there are 5 you can get including Atlantis), but that would probably cost more time than it would take to just get the Desert Boots, not to mention it would be significantly safer for a speedrun.

Having the starting sword only would make things harder yes.  As a thought, why not buy the Spear (but not the armor) and if you're short a few coins, you can pick up a few coin grabs on your way to rescuing the Dwarf Brother.  The indian-like enemies there I believe drop something like 20-ish gold when you kill them (not the ones in the fight to rescue the dwarf though). It delays getting the Marine boots only a little bit, you should be able to purchase them before entering the second dungeon.  You'll probably have to burn your Potion though and try not to take too much damage between Purapil and the end of the second dungeon.  Or use the Inn a time or two if you have to to heal up.

Also something I learned from the TAS is that instead of jumping into the swamp and taking constant damage, use a couple of Fire Storm spells to kill the very weak spider enemies and jump on the platforms instead. you can reset your magic at Lilypad's Inn if you need to.

The other main difference with that is you would probably have to skip getting the Ladder Boots until after the second dungeon. You'll have to visit that shop anyway if you burned your Potion somewhere in the process.
Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-12 06:23:19 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-12 05:42:03 pm
The original, since 2003.
So I finally picked up the game, and was testing route planning and money management for a 100% Run, and here's what i came up with.  If anyone thinks of anything that should be modified, or if there was something I missed, feel free to post feedback.

Caution, this post is a bit long, so I've hidden my notes below.

Wonder Boy in monster World 100%

All chests opened, equipment, hearts, magic, and Charmstone.

Items Obtained, Listed in the order in which I obtained them in the game:

* before item denotes it's required to beat the game, or required for Speedrun



STARTING AREA:

* Cloth Boots, Gradius, Leather Armor (Automatically at Start)

* Firestorm (1), Elixir (From Old Lady)

* Leather Boots (Bought for 30 Gold)


FIRST DUNGEON:

* Ocarina
Heart (1)
* Firestorm (2 - From boss)

BOSS Drops an average of 257 Gold (Low 226, high 276 - killed 10 times)


ALSEDO

Wood Shield, Small Spear, Chain Mail (Purchased - Total: 200 Gold)


PURAPIL

Potion (50 Gold), Ladder Boots (50 Gold)


2ND DUNGEON

Note - you need at least 300 Gold by the end of this dungeon.

* Lantern
Heart (2)
Elixir OR Large Heart
Hard Shield
* Trident (Boss)

BOSS drops an average of 263 Gold (Low 258, high 266)



LILYPAD

Marine Boots - (Purchase - 300 Gold) (After 2nd Dungeon)

PRE-ATLANTIS

* Pygmy Sword
Thunder
* Amulet (Opens Atlantis)

ATLANTIS

Note - Between Atlantis and the area outside Purapil you need to kill the Big
Fish and have it drop the Large Money Bag (416-636 Gold) twice in order to
afford Excalibur before the Desert. Three times to afford Knight Sword + Hard
Armor.

The Big Fish only drops Large money about 25% of the time.  The other 75% it
drops the Large Heart.

Heart (3)
* Return
* Desert Boots (Note- possible to skip but difficult in any%)


OUTSIDE PURAPIL - BEFORE ALSEDO (UNDERWATER)

Three large money bag chests (100% only) (Avg. 1774 Gold)
* Pygmy Armor
Heart (4)


PURAPIL

Excalibur, Knight Sword + Armor (Purchase - 2970 Gold)

Note, if you're a little short, just buy the Excalibur. You can come back for
the other stuff.


DESERT

Quake
Shield (Magic)
* Sun Key


PYRAMID

* Moon Key
Elixir OR Large Heart
* "Super Magic Chest"
* Star Key
* Pygmy Shield


BEGONIA

Fire Amulet


PRE-ATLANTIS VIA CASTLE DUNGEON SECRET DOOR

Heart (5) NOTE - Use Secret Door in the "castle dungeon", before going to Ice
World, go a few screens to the right and hit the door. Requires Trident.


SCREEN BEFORE AMULET ACTIVATION

Elixir OR Large Heart
Quake (2)


ICE CASTLE

* Pygmy Boots
* Blue Gem
Heart (6)
Elixir (Automatically if yours was used)
* Gold Gem
* Old Axe (Boss)

BOSS drops an average of 4673 Gold (Low 4385, high 5082)


CHILDAM

* Ceramic Boots (Purchase - 4000 Gold)


PYGMY SECRET - PYRAMID

Heart (7)
Charmstone
Money Chest x5 (Avg. 8918 gold total)


LILYPAD

Shield (Magic), Steel Shield, Steel Armor (Purchase - 1500 Gold)


PYGMY SECRET - 2ND DUNGEON

Heart (8)


MOUNTAIN DUNGEON

- For 100% you will need to kill the fire enemies and snakes for their money.
- You want to finish Mountain Dungeon with at least 21,000 Gold for 100%
- To quick kill the enemies use Quake and Thunder Magic.

* Power
Heart (9)
* Fire Urn (Boss)

Boss drops an average of 4665 Gold (Low 4423, high 4951)


PURAPIL

Knight Sword, Knight Shield, Steel Shield (Purchase - 2470 Gold total)


CHILDAM

Battle Spear, Knight Shield, Knight Armor (Purchase - 18500 Gold total)


DARK CASTLE

Note - for 100% kill the bats and gargoyles in the first few screens of the
castle. Make sure you exit with at least 18k gold. 26k if Elixir and Hi-potion
was used. Anything over 26k is a waste, unless you forgot to buy something.

HEART (10)
Legend Boots
Legend Armor
Heart (11 - Pygmy Secret)
Legend Shield


BEGONIA

Flame Shield, Flame Armor (Purchase - 18000 Gold)
Hi-Potion, Elixir (If needed - 8000 Gold)


100% is now done, now just go to the final area and kill Biomeka!

Final Note:  If the mini-aliens in the final area are annoying you, Quake magic will one-shot them.

Biomeka: Thunder for Lasers. Power for quick kill.
Any estimate on how long a 100% run of this game will take? Does it include getting the 500,000 needed for the 2nd charmstone?
If it also includes maxing out the magic and hearts I would think so...makes me think almost half the run would be dedicated to griding for charmstones...I can't recall how long it took me to grind 500k gold from 1000, but it had to have been almost 2 hours in the Dark Castle. So spending, at the most, 4+ hours grinding for 2-3 charmstones?!
Edit history:
Traysandor: 2012-12-18 02:13:39 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-18 01:28:51 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-18 01:26:09 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-18 01:21:53 pm
Traysandor: 2012-12-18 01:19:20 pm
The original, since 2003.
If you wanted to define 100% as getting max MP for all magic, you would be spending far too long grinding out money killing the Gargoyles in the Dark Castle.  In fact, more than half the run would be just killing those Gargoyles which would make for an incredibly boring watch in my opinion.  Also, the max money you can carry is 999,999 Gold.  Means you'd have to teleport to Purapil, buy a Charmstone, then walk outside to the first area of the game, kill an enemy for the 1 Gold you need to buy a second.

Judging by the any% run posted by dethwing earlier in the thread, it's safe to say that 100% minus buying the second Charmstone would probably take in the realm of an hour and a half, maybe two hours.  the difference I would guess would probably be somewhere in the 20-30 minute range to open the remaining chests and collect enough money to buy everything.

If you read my elongated 100% notes post, I did NOT include getting 500k Gold to get a second Charmstone, because it would simply take too long, and you already have everything you need to kill the final boss... but if you wanted to require at least getting enough money to buy 1 Charmstone and getting the secret shop magic upgrade, then that's fine too, if you want.

In comparison, to buy one of all the weapons, armor, shields, and boots in the game (excluding Inns and re-usable Potions/Elixir) you would need 47,550 Gold.  If you include a few potions, a few Inn stays, and buying both the Hi-Potion and Elixir in Begonia, then you would need about 56,000 Gold.  The 100% run I posted accounted for the 56,000 Gold required to purchase everything, and is detailed as such in the notes.
I haven't completed a run yet doing this, but I think skipping the 800 gold steel armor is definately doable. Should save some time of returning to lilliypad. Also, it's clearly a mistake to get the pygmy armor after ice bomber. Best spot is for sure right after getting return magic. Hopefully I'll get something new to show off soon.
So I thought I'd keep people updated on my progress, even though I know it's not SDA quality I hope it will continue to spark discussion.
http://www.twitch.tv/dethwing/c/1885042
I got a 1:07:03 tonight, skipping both the steel armor and knight armor. Gragg and Glagg split was godlike. I lost almost a minute on the final split because of crappy Ice Bomber re-fight plus scrambling to get enough money to buy both elixer and potion. Also fixed splits to put the heart back where it should be, between Poseidon and Sphinx.
New record, achieved in SRL race vs Artegaomega. Props to him for getting a PB in this race. He's getting quite good.
http://www.twitch.tv/dethwing/c/1903106
1:05:40. Not a whole lot else can be done at this point till I start with some more dangerous strats. There are 3 things I could do for sure:
1. Skip spear and armor to get marine boots early. [Makes sewers and 2nd dungeon harder.]
2. Skip oasis boots. [Plenty has been said about this]
3. Go straight from demon king to Biomeka. I could have done it today, but I'd have been down a few power magics. I think it's pretty tight, but possible. Would save around another minute.
I could also try skipping a few hearts here and there. The one near the pygmy armor, the one in the ice palace, and the one before the start of nightmare castle are all possibilities.
I'm rooting to see sub 1 in this game, which I believe is doable. Time will tell. Smiley
Edit history:
J0SEPH SG: 2013-02-07 03:57:52 pm
I'll post what I worked on yesterday here... didn't know this topic was still active. Skipping amulet/return/oasis boots appears to save over 2 min (137.5 secs below). See attachment. This will require getting the heart before gragg and glagg, and going to get pigmy armor and that heart piece before backtracking to the desert. You need 6 hearts for the oasis boots skip, and can only get hit once between elixer pickup and dragon city.

                                                        Time Saved/Lost

Dragon bracelet to castle -23.28
return:  8.87
no return:  32.15

Ceramic boots to castle -5.54
return:  15.61
no return:  21.15

Pygmy armor to castle -99.88
return:  12.23
no return:  112.11

Legend sword to castle -23.28
return:  8.87
no return:  32.15

Amulet/return/boots skip 289.33
no skip,poseidon 318.69
skip 29.36
(no skip, no boots) 286.04


Quote from dethwing:
1. Skip spear and armor to get marine boots early. [Makes sewers and 2nd dungeon harder.]


I think skipping spear will probably be a no-no though. I haven't timed the gragg fight, but... hard to say. You can easily get the 300 coins needed for boots on first pass by picking up all coin drops before myconid. if you want to get more coins in the bat area, you can easily have enough for a potion as well, but that's just wasted time.
Pretty interesting considering the TAS skips the spear, but gets the Return magic.
Edit history:
J0SEPH SG: 2013-02-07 06:57:35 pm
Theoretically skipping spear is faster and not having to pick up all that gold, but gragg would take forever non tas without spear. water sections are like 50% faster or more on tas as well
This is true. Swimming is such a pain in the ass. Less swimming please! Smiley
Attempted Oasis boots skip for the first time tonight. Collected 7 hearts to give me some extra leeway. The result was this 1:02:29 run:
http://www.twitch.tv/dethwing/c/1922927

Sewers without spear needs work!
Another update: Artega took the record briefly with a 1:00:31, but I took it back with a 1:00:15! Sub 1 is in sight now.
ArtegaOmega currently has WR at 58:51
Link to run: http://www.twitch.tv/artegaomega/c/1925230

At this point I'm not sure if there is much in the way of improvement to the route.