Wind Waker

2009-09-21 09:19:43 am

Well aside from all the obvious ones that require savewarping (like the DRC early boss key), not really. Some of them are too easy not to pull off, like Rock skip. beings that it saves 25 seconds if pulled off normally, subtract that from the time it takes me to pull it off and I saved x seconds, yaknow.

I haven't gone through the entire route to see all the tricks that can be done though, so i might not even be using any good ones D:

except the jumpslash/bomb jump before DRC, that warrants way too much risk to try and save, what, 4 seconds?\

Phazon

2009-09-21 09:27:31 am

After the first grapple hook part, can't you go right? Which leads to a pot... that can take you to the DRCBKSC location iirc. It saves a lot of time so I think it's worth considering. I don't know how you would get back though. Maybe a death warp?

EDIT:

That Moblin skip in FF is soooo much easier than I remember ;]

AniMeowzerz

Edit history:

AniMeowzerz: 2009-09-21 12:39:40 pm

2009-09-21 11:55:03 am

Hmm... Good point, just thought about the time it would take, and it would shave off a good.. I dunno, 3 minutes I'd suppose. I'll practice the trick to where I can do it all the time and add it into my run Wink

and screw you, that moblin skip never works :c
Well, 2:50 and i'm in Hyrule.
3:14 and I totally killed that bird thing Cheesy

nvm this attempt got totally screwed. I forgot to restock on arrows the first time to get the ballad, and then when I DO restock, I only hit him twice and I have no more arrows. I dont know any other convenient spots to find arrows, so... screw that :I
I'll try some other time.

MrSparkle

2009-09-21 12:55:45 pm

Doin Good

DRC Boss Key early requires a deathwarp, keep in mind. FW after the boss key is an awesome death warp place, especially if you skip the first Heart Container. Aim for going from the start of ET to the end of WT in an hour, and learning the WGA in between. Rock skip is a must in any SS, it's super simple after some work. 44 - 45 minutes is the lower limit for getting to DRC.

Risk assessment is fun. Theres the 4 minute cyclone timesaver 2 hours in, with a 1/7 chance of working. Getting caught by Floormasters, running out of magic in ToG, dieing to Puppet Gannon, ect...

Phazon

2009-09-22 07:32:52 am

Imo cyclone warps are out of the question in a SS run. I thought it was 1/8 not 1/7, but either way it's not worth it.

DRCBKSC is a must imo and I think you're right about missing the first HC. It'd help if you could find spots to lose a fair amount of health up to the deathwarp points, but then it's still risky because you may die before you want to. I think the magtail is the best way to die in DRC. They attack slow and do 1/2 heart damage each time I think. The Keese may be faster, but I think they do 1/4 damage.

Here's a thought, although not SS related. In FW couldn't you save like 5-6 seconds if you run up the hill on the right and jump into the cauldron instead of climbing up it everytime?

AniMeowzerz

Edit history:

AniMeowzerz: 2009-09-22 08:55:50 am

2009-09-22 08:08:32 am

You might be able to, that's something worth looking into. I can test it out today, just gimme 1-1/2 hours to get there Grin

It's kinda how I've been sidehopping into the green pot in DRC instead of climbing up, saves 2-3 seconds

The Cyclone warp CAN be worth it, if you have an ungodly amount of time on your hands. I mean, using all the pre-ballad cyclone warps in an SS is insanity and would probably only work every 1 in 100 tries, and each one's near 2 hours in. But the warp to outset could be worth it if you're willing to risk a good run on it. Also put this into perspective: there's 1/7-8 chance of it working; You're only at D3 when you enter the cyclone, Outset's in A7. There are about 3 warp spots that would shorten travel distance compared to Windfall-Outset (greatfish warp, SFI warp, Outset warp) So that reduces the risk by about a third.

And I did some mental time comparisons, DRC boss key route skip is a must since it saves that much time. The magtail only does 1/2 damage if he attacks you, you can run into the side of him for 1/4 heart damage.
I'm also throwing in the deathwarp after the boss key in FW as well, that saves a good minute or so Cheesy

It's really too bad though, I thought I was gonna be all flashy by using my enemy spinning to under the bridge along the way to the Boss key in DRC. Darn :c

EDIT: Luckily, I already had a file before Ghoma, so I'm over at FW now. It's fairly easy to jump onto the pot from that incline, so yes it definitely saves time, I'd start using it Cheesy

You might be able to, that's something worth looking into. I can test it out today, just gimme 1-1/2 hours to get there ;D 
It's kinda how I've been sidehopping into the green pot in DRC instead of climbing up, saves 2-3 seconds

The Cyclone warp CAN be worth it, if you have an ungodly amount of time on your hands. I mean, using all the pre-ballad cyclone warps in an SS is insanity and would probably only work every 1 in 100 tries, and each one's near 2 hours in. But the warp to outset could be worth it if you're willing to risk a good run on it. Also put this into perspective: there's 1/7-8 chance of it working; You're only at D3 when you enter the cyclone, Outset's in A7. There are about 3 warp spots that would shorten travel distance compared to Windfall-Outset (greatfish warp, SFI warp, Outset warp) So that reduces the risk by about a third.

And I did some mental time comparisons, DRC boss key route skip is a must since it saves that much time. The magtail only does 1/2 damage if he attacks you, you can run into the side of him for 1/4 heart damage.
I'm also throwing in the deathwarp after the boss key in FW as well, that saves a good minute or so :D

It's really too bad though, I thought I was gonna be all flashy by using my enemy spinning to under the bridge along the way to the Boss key in DRC. Darn :c

EDIT: Luckily, I already had a file before Ghoma, so I'm over at FW now. It's fairly easy to jump onto the pot from that incline, so yes it definitely saves time, I'd start using it :D

Phazon

2009-09-22 10:20:03 am

If you know any good methods for Gohdan (I guess you've beat him a few times) please tell me, because I hate him. Btw which break have you been using? Imo, the clipping method is the easiest.

I should have realised that about the savewarps. It's more of a 40% chance of that one important warp going your way. It just depends how risky you're feeling.

AniMeowzerz

Edit history:

AniMeowzerz: 2009-09-22 10:46:55 am

2009-09-22 10:41:49 am

Yeah, it really depends on the risk

And Gohdan's that retarded boss in ToG right? There's no real trick to him, Just shoot his hand, pause for about 2-3 seconds, shoot it again (don't shoot immediately, it will miss). Just do that and you'll land hits on him every time.

Or you could opt to Shoot one hand, Immediately switch to the other, shoot it, rinse repeat til the eyes and follow the pause method for those. That could quicken the battle by about 10 seconds?

Also, yes I've been using the clipping method. Much easier and it's hardly slower than trying to set up the normal method. Chimpas was complaining that you would have to wait for the water to rise up, but if you do it fast enough the water will rise as you get there.

Edit: I figure since I'm thinking about it, I'll just go ahead and mention that you'll need to restock on Arrows while in Hyrule, which you can do by either breaking open the enemy spheres and risking grabbing a spoil for some arrows, or you can break the 2 corner pots on the upper floor that have arrows in them. Depends on which you feel would be more optimized.

Yeah, it really depends on the risk

And Gohdan's that retarded boss in ToG right? There's no real trick to him, Just shoot his hand, pause for about 2-3 seconds, shoot it again (don't shoot immediately, it will miss). Just do that and you'll land hits on him every time.

Or you could opt to Shoot one hand, Immediately switch to the other, shoot it, rinse repeat til the eyes and follow the pause method for those. That could quicken the battle by about 10 seconds?

Also, yes I've been using the clipping method. Much easier and it's hardly slower than trying to set up the normal method. Chimpas was complaining that you would have to wait for the water to rise up, but if you do it fast enough the water will rise as you get there.

Edit: I figure since I'm thinking about it, I'll just go ahead and mention that you'll need to restock on Arrows while in Hyrule, which you can do by either breaking open the enemy spheres and risking grabbing a spoil for some arrows, or you can break the 2 corner pots on the upper floor that have arrows in them. Depends on which you feel would be more optimized.

Phazon

2009-09-22 01:18:37 pm

The furthest back pot on the top right floor of Hyrule Castle. I'm 90% sure it has arrows in it. Just incase that's part of your route for that room. It was for me.

What's the pause method? And yeah Gohdan is retarded...

Btw, when you get to Ganon's Castle what is your route for the trials? Are you using the one I wrote? That's the fastest way, although that late in the game you might not want to bother with the Wizrobe SC. It doesn't save an awful lot of time anyway.

And for DRC aren't there some things from TSA's run that would help a SS run? I don't know for sure, because I haven't looked into SS very much.

Oh! This may be very helpful for you. In ToG a LOT of my runs were ruined by those Keese knocking me off the ladder in the scale room. Idk if you currently kill them, which is a viable option, but if you sidehop left after the Small Key room, run forward and jumpslash into the water, staying close to the left and climb the ladder like that, it seems to make the likelyhood of the Keese hitting you far lower. I think you avoid there distance trigger or whatever you want to call it.

The furthest back pot on the top right floor of Hyrule Castle. I'm 90% sure it has arrows in it. Just incase that's part of your route for that room. It was for me.

What's the pause method? And yeah Gohdan is retarded...

Btw, when you get to Ganon's Castle what is your route for the trials? Are you using the one I wrote? That's the fastest way, although that late in the game you might not want to bother with the Wizrobe SC. It doesn't save an awful lot of time anyway.

And for DRC aren't there some things from TSA's run that would help a SS run? I don't know for sure, because I haven't looked into SS very much.

Oh! This may be very helpful for you. In ToG a LOT of my runs were ruined by those Keese knocking me off the ladder in the scale room. Idk if you currently kill them, which is a viable option, but if you sidehop left after the Small Key room, run forward and jumpslash into the water, staying close to the left and climb the ladder like that, it seems to make the likelyhood of the Keese hitting you far lower. I think you avoid there distance trigger or whatever you want to call it.

AniMeowzerz

2009-09-22 01:33:16 pm

The backpot on the top right BUT ALSO the pot next to the stairs on the left side of the top floor holds arrows too, so you can grab 20 arrows that way easily.

Thanks for the tips, the Keese can be extremely annoying. Where can I find your route for Ganon's Castle?
I never really used an absolute route, so knowing one would probably help.

All I meant by the pause method is where you wait 2-3 seconds for his hands/head to stabilize before shooting him again. That's it lol.

TSA's route is pretty much the SS route beings that he didn't use savewarping at all (other than the new Sailing route for the triforce charts/pieces). As far as DRC goes, the only thing he did that helped speed things up is on the way to the Boss key, in the room with the moblin on the bridge he drops down and jumpslashes onto the landing below. But I've made slightly better of that by l-targeting the moblin and sidehopping which causes you to spin around him enough to land directly on the landing underneath the bridge.

The backpot on the top right BUT ALSO the pot next to the stairs on the left side of the top floor holds arrows too, so you can grab 20 arrows that way easily.

Thanks for the tips, the Keese can be extremely annoying. Where can I find your route for Ganon's Castle?
I never really used an absolute route, so knowing one would probably help.

All I meant by the pause method is where you wait 2-3 seconds for his hands/head to stabilize before shooting him again. That's it lol.

TSA's route is pretty much the SS route beings that he didn't use savewarping at all (other than the new Sailing route for the triforce charts/pieces). As far as DRC goes, the only thing he did that helped speed things up is on the way to the Boss key, in the room with the moblin on the bridge he drops down and jumpslashes onto the landing below. But I've made slightly better of that by l-targeting the moblin and sidehopping which causes you to spin around him enough to land directly on the landing underneath the bridge.

Phazon

2009-09-22 02:48:16 pm

Ah, well your arrow location is a lot more convenient. Here's my trial route:

-Deku Leaf over to Fire trial
-Throw water pot onto lava on left
-Grab another water pot and throw it onto lava jet
-Deku Leaf to last grapple post
-Deku Leaf to door and two-cycle Gohma
-Start Wind trial and Deku Leaf to ledge infront of spikes
-Get hit by Wizrobe and run through the spikes
-Continue normally and beat Molgera
-Start Earth trial
-Turn the rightmost Chuchu to stone and hookshot it directly to the button
-Roll past the next set of coffins to the other side and turn the furthest back Chuchu to stone and hookshot it to the button
[When rolling past collect magic from open coffins]
[You must have full magic by the end of this trial]
-Beat Jalhalla
-Start the forest trial and blow the platform to you and back without using your Deku Leaf to hover
-Jump to the vine platform and jump from that to the next vine platform with your Deku Leaf
-Deku Leaf to the end and beat Kalle Demos
[Preferable to have enough magic left for 1 light arrow, but not mandatory]
-Go through main door
-Ascend Stairs

It's a bit vague so tell me if any parts aren't clear. The magic is mandatory for all trials, except the forest trial, but it'd be faster if you had the right amount. Unfortunately I don't know which bridge leads to which trial. All I know is the first one on the left when you first enter the main room is the fire trial. The earth trial hookshotting can be a pain, so i'd put that down as optional.

Do you know the right doors for skipping Phantom Ganon in Ganon's Castle?

I almost forgot! Are you using elixer soup in this run?

Ah, well your arrow location is a lot more convenient. Here's my trial route:

-Deku Leaf over to Fire trial
-Throw water pot onto lava on left
-Grab another water pot and throw it onto lava jet
-Deku Leaf to last grapple post
-Deku Leaf to door and two-cycle Gohma
-Start Wind trial and Deku Leaf to ledge infront of spikes
-Get hit by Wizrobe and run through the spikes
-Continue normally and beat Molgera
-Start Earth trial
-Turn the rightmost Chuchu to stone and hookshot it directly to the button
-Roll past the next set of coffins to the other side and turn the furthest back Chuchu to stone and hookshot it to the button
 [When rolling past collect magic from open coffins]
 [You must have full magic by the end of this trial]
-Beat Jalhalla
-Start the forest trial and blow the platform to you and back without using your Deku Leaf to hover
-Jump to the vine platform and jump from that to the next vine platform with your Deku Leaf
-Deku Leaf to the end and beat Kalle Demos
 [Preferable to have enough magic left for 1 light arrow, but not mandatory]
-Go through main door
-Ascend Stairs

It's a bit vague so tell me if any parts aren't clear. The magic is mandatory for all trials, except the forest trial, but it'd be faster if you had the right amount. Unfortunately I don't know which bridge leads to which trial. All I know is the first one on the left when you first enter the main room is the fire trial. The earth trial hookshotting can be a pain, so i'd put that down as optional.

Do you know the right doors for skipping Phantom Ganon in Ganon's Castle?

I almost forgot! Are you using elixer soup in this run?

AniMeowzerz

2009-09-22 03:21:19 pm

Well the trials, if you're in the center: Fire trial bottom-left, Wind trial bottom-right, Earth trial Top-right, Forest trial Top-left.

Thanks for the route BTW, but just wondering.. for the Fire trial, is it not as fast to deku leaf all the way to the last platform and them grapple to the last post, pull yourself up and grapple from there?
I'll have to try it out, I haven't messed around too much with methods. Just been doing what TSA did in his run for the most part

And yeah, I know it. Down, left, up, left, right, up.

No, I haven't been using the elixer soup, it seems too inconvenient since you have to pause, assign the soup, unpause, soup glitch, throw your normal item over your button again etc etc
Although it would provide infinite magic, practically..

Phazon

2009-09-22 04:14:48 pm

Ah I keep forgetting that not everything will go your way the first time. I'm too used to segmenting. Honestly, I don't know how to use the Elixer soup glitch anyway. I imagine it's similar to the bombs indoors glitch though. I was thinking about Elixer soup, mainly for help with Jalhalla. I mean I never did speedrun Jalhalla, but it looks difficult to 3 cycle him with 2 hit kills. And you've got to do him twice, so even without the glitch you could shave off some time on Jalhalla, but I really doubt it saves time. What is it? An added 30 seconds to get the soup, provided you have a fairy from DRC? Maybe more, I can't remember how long that cutscene is. Anyway...

The amount of magic for the trials is quite precise, but you can restock at the start of the wind trial if you need. It's still faster to get magic from the earth trial though. Anyway the added deku leaf time MAY be a problem. Another problem with climbing to the last grapple post is the skulls that can knock you into the lava. Atleast with the deku leaf you can blast them away. There's almost no idle time with my fire trial method, so it's not that bad. Anyway this is really something that needs testing. Just remember to complete the next trial with the remaining magic to see if you will need to restock at the start.

Oh yeah, important. The stairs leading to the main trial room. You should break certain pots for magic to light arrow the enemies and at the end of those stairs try to get full magic while you wait for the door to open. Only break pots on the right. The pots on the left are fairies and hearts iirc. I'm pretty sure the first on the left at the top of the stairs is a fairy. So if your health is low, it's worth getting.

You've really got a lot to remember. This is one small part of the game and you've got to remember 7 hours worth of specifics. There's no way I could do that. x_X

Ah I keep forgetting that not everything will go your way the first time. I'm too used to segmenting. Honestly, I don't know how to use the Elixer soup glitch anyway. I imagine it's similar to the bombs indoors glitch though. I was thinking about Elixer soup, mainly for help with Jalhalla. I mean I never did speedrun Jalhalla, but it looks difficult to 3 cycle him with 2 hit kills. And you've got to do him twice, so even without the glitch you could shave off some time on Jalhalla, but I really doubt it saves time. What is it? An added 30 seconds to get the soup, provided you have a fairy from DRC? Maybe more, I can't remember how long that cutscene is. Anyway...

The amount of magic for the trials is quite precise, but you can restock at the start of the wind trial if you need. It's still faster to get magic from the earth trial though. Anyway the added deku leaf time MAY be a problem. Another problem with climbing to the last grapple post is the skulls that can knock you into the lava. Atleast with the deku leaf you can blast them away. There's almost no idle time with my fire trial method, so it's not that bad. Anyway this is really something that needs testing. Just remember to complete the next trial with the remaining magic to see if you will need to restock at the start.

Oh yeah, important. The stairs leading to the main trial room. You should break certain pots for magic to light arrow the enemies and at the end of those stairs try to get full magic while you wait for the door to open. Only break pots on the right. The pots on the left are fairies and hearts iirc. I'm pretty sure the first on the left at the top of the stairs is a fairy. So if your health is low, it's worth getting.

You've really got a lot to remember. This is one small part of the game and you've got to remember 7 hours worth of specifics. There's no way I could do that. x_X

AniMeowzerz

2009-09-22 05:11:32 pm

The memorization isn't that bad actually lol. I mean sure, I take a brief look at notes during cutscenes in case I'm not sure about something (sailing mostly, but I'm getting that down), but It's starting to become the same case for me as was Mystical Ninja: I thought I'd never remember where to go and what to grab, But when you play through it a couple times, it becomes second nature and you don't have to remember.

But memorization is gonna be a bitch when I attempt 100% SS X____x;;

I'm gonna have to write a route down pretty soon, to show you what you can probably expect whenever I get recording equipment to do this. Would also give me the chance to see what tricks I want to use or not.

Phazon

2009-09-23 03:05:36 am

You don't have a recording device yet? :/ Are you planning on getting one soon?

You're getting me interesting in SS quite a bit now Tongue

AniMeowzerz

2009-09-23 10:33:20 am

Nah, I don't have a DVD recorder or anything like that. I'm just practicing for runs right now really
if I had equipment, I wouldn't have had to ask you to do that pointless DRC break on video for me, now would I ;P

I plan on getting one of course, all this hard work just to do it casually? Bah. I don't know how soon though. Depends on when I can get the funds
.... I need a job really badly now :I

SS is fun, even if you're not going to submit, It's always fun to run through a game in one sitting Cheesy

Phazon

2009-09-23 10:59:29 am

Oh yeah, I forgot about that... I've SS WW once before, but it was easily 10 hours lol. That was no speedrun attempt at all though.

If you don't mind waiting, you could get a DVD-recorder for christmas. By then you'd have had a lot of practise ;]

MrSparkle

2009-09-23 02:11:00 pm

Doin Good

ToG clipping method? Which one? The door clip method puts a strain on your magic during ToG, but I think it's easier. Yeah, roll into a quick jumpslash into the water is the fastest way of getting to the ladder. If I remember correctly you have to do some item equipping before that room, I normally equip the boomerang then (If it's not already?). Sometimes i feel bold and try to skip the Keese, I've paid for it a few times, getting knocked off 2 or 3 times...

Jallhala is all about quickspins, jumpslash-quickspins and possibly a Fire Arrow ready (Has saved me many times on cycle 3). But yeah with those, 3 cycling is no big deal.

Some random WT notes. Are you damage boosting to the first small key? After the Hookshot try returning to the small key room and Floormaster warping back up top near Makar. I'm pretty sure it's faster than climbing back up, and it's much safer...

AniMeowzerz

Edit history:

AniMeowzerz: 2009-09-23 03:49:51 pm

2009-09-23 03:42:19 pm

Well I put the damage boost to the key in the route, but I'm having a hard time pulling it off. If the video of the trick were still up, this might not be a big problem >_>

I'm talking about the clipping method where you put the statue next to the Pillar and drop down on the pillar and get lodged OoB

Oooh, a dvd recorder for christmas, that would be awesome :D! I should totally ask mum to do that for me

Also, I have the entire route up on ZSR now, so suggest changes and whatnot there :3

Phazon

2009-09-23 03:58:20 pm

You need to stay left or the Keese will see you. They may still see you even if you stay left, but only when you are higher up the ladder. I'm pretty sure only one of the two Keese will fly over to you so if you're really worried you could kill it with an arrow, which is suprisingly more difficult than it sounds. I'm still confident that the only viable way in a SS is to stay left and jumpslash into the water. If you jumpslash to the ledge, make sure you don't jump off or you will be close enough to trigger the Keese. Do a diagonal sidewalk into the water and you should be fine. I had a whole experiment going with those Keese, because I know how annoying they can be Tongue

Off to read Animeowzerz route!

AniMeowzerz

Edit history:

AniMeowzerz: 2009-10-30 06:12:19 pm

2009-09-26 07:07:58 pm

Found a timesaver in Wind temple. Probably old, but I havent seen youtube vids of it.

In the room immediately after Makar's capture (the one with the WGA stone & spinners), go down to the first spinner. Immediately after using your deku-leaf, backflip. You should hit the spinning wall as it's swinging upwards, taking you with it. Using this technique, we only have to spin it once. Should save a good... 10-12 seconds overall if you use it both instances you're in the room

Edit: here ya go

Phazon

2009-10-20 06:06:45 am

Seg 6:

I decided to play again ;p

MrSparkle

2009-10-21 12:38:47 am

Doin Good

Nice stuff, I see no reason to 'demand' a redo (We need a new run!).

Phazon

Edit history:

Phazon: 2009-10-21 01:40:11 pm

2009-10-21 08:03:43 am

I don't plan on redoing any segments any time soon. I've been playing segment 7 a lot and I have to ask, since when has a red rupee been so rare? I've got through 100+ attempts and i've seen a red rupee once, on a run where I failed and continued for the sake of it.

EDIT:

Segment 7.

Phazon

2009-11-22 11:45:23 am

Another 3 segs:

http://www.youtube.com/user/lolilops54