Wario Land 3 speedrun on GBC

2006-11-08 07:08:19 pm

Tetris/Melee player

Hello, I wanted to make a Wario Land 3 speedrun, because I love this game and played a lot with it. I also used vba to figure out what moves are the fastest, so I know lots of things about the game.
The run is pretty much going to be segmented and 100% done. I'll make after that the time attacks of each level, but I have the European version of the game (although I don't know if there is a version difference).
I just had some questions about the speedrun :

- First of all, are you people interested in seeing a Wario Land 3 speedrun? I will have to buy a Hori pad and a Gameboy Player if the answer is positive, so, even though I think that the run should be appreciated, please let me know.

- Considering that the game auto-saves after each level, what should I do? I would gladly do one level per segment, and I know nothing should stop me doing that, but, for no apparent reason, I'm a little bit afraid.

Thanks in advance.

Thread title:

Freezing_Inferno

2006-11-08 07:10:48 pm

We deal in lead.

Sounds pretty good. I'm interested. Best of luck!

Tompa

2006-11-08 07:18:20 pm

Yes, there are people that are interested of seeing this. I haven't played it for a very long time so I don't remember it so well.

If you are going to do a segmented 100% and one level in each segment, it will count as individual levels run, and not segmented. I think ::). So you better try to do a couple more levels in each segment instead.
How many levels are they?

Qlex

Edit history:

Qlex: 2006-11-08 09:07:45 pm

2006-11-08 09:06:57 pm

Tetris/Melee player

Quote:

If you are going to do a segmented 100% and one level in each segment, it will count as individual levels run, and not segmented. I think ::). So you better try to do a couple more levels in each segment instead.
How many levels are they?

I'll explain : After you have finished the game (100%), you obviously have all power-ups. You can redo (as always) all the levels you have done so far, but if you take the 4 keys in the level and take an exit, the time will be shown and saved.
During the 100% run, you have to visit a level 4 times at least, they are more than 20, and you can choose to take the ten power-ups later by collecting other treasures (some treasures are just needed for mini-games, so you can take them whenever you want).

I think I'll do a couple more levels in each segment, but anyway there's no hurry until I get everything to record the run. Okay then, bye!

Qlex

Edit history:

Qlex: 2007-01-06 06:31:16 pm

2006-11-16 06:45:38 am

Tetris/Melee player

Okay, the run is pretty much going to be recorded on VHS (sorry for people that wanted very high quality video, but the DVD recorder I have has a 2 seconds lag, so...). I may be able to start the whole thing around december or january, and I'll continue it around february/march.

The thing is : During the run, Wario can walk or make chargejumps (charge then jump). Chargejumps are slower, but they can be faster if right before the landing, I press back then forward. This is a frame-perfect trick I discovered on emulator and I can't do it on my GBA SP. I'll see if I will be able to do so with a Hori pad, but this will more likely change a lot of things in plan (such as the work to do, or the time expected). So nothing's sure for now, but I hope I'll make 2 or 3 segments around december.

Until then, see you.

EDIT : Okay, I haven't been able to get all the stuff in time, so no segment right now. I'll have everything set for February/March though. I'll use some good VHS recorder (there might not be discussion about cheat and all that I hope), and my GBPlayer using a GBASP (I'm not satisfied with Hori pads, I've been used to practising with my good ol' GBA for ages).

So then, bye.

Okay, the run is pretty much going to be recorded on VHS (sorry for people that wanted very high quality video, but the DVD recorder I have has a 2 seconds lag, so...). I may be able to start the whole thing around december or january, and I'll continue it around february/march.

The thing is : During the run, Wario can walk or make chargejumps (charge then jump). Chargejumps are slower, but they can be faster if right before the landing, I press back then forward. This is a frame-perfect trick I discovered on emulator and I can't do it on my GBA SP. I'll see if I will be able to do so with a Hori pad, but this will more likely change a lot of things in plan (such as the work to do, or the time expected). So nothing's sure for now, but I hope I'll make 2 or 3 segments around december.

Until then, see you.

EDIT : Okay, I haven't been able to get all the stuff in time, so no segment right now. I'll have everything set for February/March though. I'll use some good VHS recorder (there might not be discussion about cheat and all that I hope), and my GBPlayer using a GBASP (I'm not satisfied with Hori pads, I've been used to practising with my good ol' GBA for ages).

So then, bye.

mike89

2013-05-08 02:13:52 am

SEGA Junkie

Looks like I've found my new project.

Rather than playing the "proper" game, I'm going to focus on the time attack stages. My aim is to get a submittable set of ILs. Lots to consider here: you have to collect all four keys, which you can do in any order, then take any of four exits. On top of that, some factors are slightly more or less in your favour depending on whether you play the stage in day or night, so route planning is going to be really interesting!

I made a couple of quick highlights from a stream earlier: N1 (Out of the Woods) in 1:07 and E6 (East Crater) in 2:58. The latter is a better example of some of the route planning decisions that have to be made... there's two routes here that I haven't really timed out.

There's not really any resources for this game, but there is this, a non-leaderboard of times which are varying degrees of optimised. The N1 time is pretty solid (but I can probably knock it down another second or two) but I beat the E6 time by a full minute, for example.

About movement: hard to tell, but it looks very much like walking is just as fast as dashing so there's very few situations where it's beneficial, which is why I don't dash around as often as I would in 4.

Looks like I've found my new project.

Rather than playing the "proper" game, I'm going to focus on the time attack stages. My aim is to get a submittable set of ILs. Lots to consider here: you have to collect all four keys, which you can do in any order, then take any of four exits. On top of that, some factors are slightly more or less in your favour depending on whether you play the stage in day or night, so route planning is going to be really interesting!

I made a couple of quick highlights from a stream earlier: [url=http://www.twitch.tv/mike89sda/c/2255705]N1 (Out of the Woods) in 1:07[/url] and [url=http://www.twitch.tv/mike89sda/c/2255719]E6 (East Crater) in 2:58[/url]. The latter is a better example of some of the route planning decisions that have to be made... there's two routes here that I haven't really timed out.

There's not really any resources for this game, but there is [url=http://mario.soniccenter.org/rankings/wario_land_3/times]this[/url], a non-leaderboard of times which are varying degrees of optimised. The N1 time is pretty solid (but I can probably knock it down another second or two) but I beat the E6 time by a full minute, for example.

About movement: hard to tell, but it looks very much like walking is just as fast as dashing so there's very few situations where it's beneficial, which is why I don't dash around as often as I would in 4.

AdHoc

2013-05-08 05:31:43 am

After the new WL4 speedrun, I was hoping to see a WL3 run, because I love this game so much.

Why don't you try the story mode?

mike89

2013-06-20 12:21:01 pm

SEGA Junkie

So, I'm starting to record these for real. I typically do these runs either at the end of a stream or off stream (as I have today, thanks to my internet connection being hot garbage all day).

Of note is that I found this leaderboard, which has much better times than the ones I linked above... in fact, some so good I'm not entirely sure of their legitimacy. None of the times have videos, although a couple do have pictures. While they may not be 100% legitimate, knowing that there's a set of better times out there inspires me to look for new strategies and improvements.

Which brings me to... THE NEXT LEVEL STRATS

If internet's any better tomorrow I think I'll show off what I have so far on stream... see if people can help with any improvements. Smiley

mike89

2013-07-03 12:39:32 am

SEGA Junkie

Got videos for all stages now, total time is 45:26. I'm still working on almost all the stages, there's only three I'm definitely done with right now. There's still 12 levels where I haven't matched the Cyberscore times yet, and some of them seem prohibitively far ahead...

Once I can get a stable connection again I'll upload the vids to Youtube just to get people to see if I'm missing any obvious route errors.

mike89

2013-07-08 11:24:38 pm

SEGA Junkie

I threw all those videos up like I said I would: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiF75JoAs0OWYmxJxGjujoBsjvaVBPO8M

On the positive side, these levels are definitely done:
W3 - The Pool of Rain
S2 - The Big Bridge
E1 - The Stagnant Swamp

On the negative side, there's a few times that are still way off the best claimed times on Cyberscore and I can't see a route improvement:
N1 - Out of the Woods
N2 - The Peaceful Village
N5 - The Tidal Coast
W6 - The West Crater
S1 - The Grasslands
S5 - Cave of Flames
E2 - The Frigid Sea

realxxxturkey

2013-09-09 01:28:43 pm

Yo. I am from cyberscore (worst username ever, i know), and i got some faster times than you did.

Let me just say one thing: I would advise you not to post youtube videos of time attack. One reason why me and Prenz have some faster times than you is because of
better strategies. But we never made videos. The strats are exactly what makes the Time Attack records unique.
If you make a video of your records, everybody can easily tie your record by just copying your strategy, it would not be hard at all, and would be much easier
for the copier than you, because he did not have to THINK, just to execute.

Think about this: Your 1:04 in The Stagnant Swamp. If you simply had submitted it at SDA i would have been blown away, and i doubt i ever would have figured out how to beat it.
Watching your video however, i could easily reproduce and tie that.
And not only this: I can assure you that it is even possible to still go faster than you did. I won't tell you how, though.

Just wanted to say that for some reason...

Yo. I am from cyberscore (worst username ever, i know), and i got some faster times than you did.

Let me just say one thing: I would advise you not to post youtube videos of time attack. One reason why me and Prenz have some faster times than you is because of
better strategies. But we never made videos. The strats are exactly what makes the Time Attack records unique.
If you make a video of your records, everybody can easily tie your record by just copying your strategy, it would not be hard at all, and would be much easier
for the copier than you, because he did not have to THINK, just to execute.

Think about this: Your 1:04 in The Stagnant Swamp. If you simply had submitted it at SDA i would have been blown away, and i doubt i ever would have figured out how to beat it.
Watching your video however, i could easily reproduce and tie that.
And not only this: I can assure you that it is even possible to still go faster than you did. I won't tell you how, though.

Just wanted to say that for some reason...

mr deppelman

2013-09-09 02:11:27 pm

That is so bad for competition I can't even believe it was suggested. Speedrunning isn't about blowing people away with your skill, its about coming together as a community to optimize a game to perfection.

realxxxturkey

2013-09-09 02:17:21 pm

This may be true for most games, but not for this one i think. Because this individual level stuff is basically the way of highscoring, so it's all about being the best.
When i hear about speedrunning WL3, i think about beating that game as fast as possible, not getting time attack records.... oh well, maybe it's just me...

mike89

2013-09-09 09:21:47 pm

SEGA Junkie

Quote from realxxxturkey:

Let me just say one thing: I would advise you not to post youtube videos of time attack. One reason why me and Prenz have some faster times than you is because of better strategies. But we never made videos. The strats are exactly what makes the Time Attack records unique.

I agree, the strategies are exactly what makes the time attack levels so interesting to run. That's why I ran it.

Not revealing your strats is very defeatist though. To me, it says that you're not confident in your level of execution holding up under scrutiny. It also places a barrier on new players picking up what is a very fun game to play.

The attitudes here and on sites like Cyberscore are completely different. I'm not interested in being the best. I'm interested in watching excellent speedruns.

Quote from realxxxturkey:

Think about this: Your 1:04 in The Stagnant Swamp. If you simply had submitted it at SDA i would have been blown away, and i doubt i ever would have figured out how to beat it.

Either you meant to say Cyberscore in there, or you seriously lack understanding on how SDA works. No time gets put on SDA without a video. SDA's purpose is to host speedrun videos, not best times.

That said, even if I did go to Cyberscore and post my times without videos, what would that prove? Almost nothing. Perhaps you would have done what I've done, and kept on scouring the levels where I just couldn't understand how the times were so much faster until I eventually stumbled on something that worked. And, indeed, that was part of the fun for me. But then holding those strats under lock and key? I don't feel like that benefits anyone.

Quote from realxxxturkey:

When i hear about speedrunning WL3, i think about beating that game as fast as possible, not getting time attack records...

In most cases I would agree, however for WL3 I find the time attack levels much more fun than the actual game Tongue

I might still consider it in the distant future, but there's other games I want to run first.

[quote="realxxxturkey"]Let me just say one thing: I would advise you not to post youtube videos of time attack. One reason why me and Prenz have some faster times than you is because of better strategies. But we never made videos. The strats are exactly what makes the Time Attack records unique.[/quote]

I agree, the strategies are exactly what makes the time attack levels so interesting to run. That's why I ran it.

Not revealing your strats is very defeatist though. To me, it says that you're not confident in your level of execution holding up under scrutiny. It also places a barrier on new players picking up what is a very fun game to play.

The attitudes here and on sites like Cyberscore are completely different. I'm not interested in being the best. I'm interested in watching excellent speedruns.

[quote="realxxxturkey"]Think about this: Your 1:04 in The Stagnant Swamp. If you simply had submitted it at SDA i would have been blown away, and i doubt i ever would have figured out how to beat it.[/quote]

Either you meant to say Cyberscore in there, or you seriously lack understanding on how SDA works. No time gets put on SDA without a video. SDA's purpose is to host speedrun videos, not best times.

That said, even if I did go to Cyberscore and post my times without videos, what would that prove? Almost nothing. Perhaps you would have done what I've done, and kept on scouring the levels where I just couldn't understand how the times were so much faster until I eventually stumbled on something that worked. And, indeed, that was part of the fun for me. But then holding those strats under lock and key? I don't feel like that benefits anyone.

[quote="realxxxturkey"]When i hear about speedrunning WL3, i think about beating that game as fast as possible, not getting time attack records...[/quote]

In most cases I would agree, however for WL3 I find the time attack levels much more fun than the actual game :P I might still consider it in the distant future, but there's other games I want to run first.

AdHoc

2013-09-10 09:23:42 am

Bad sportsmanship on this thread, very sad to see for a run I'm looking forward to...

Patashu

Edit history:

Patashu: 2013-09-11 02:57:15 am

Patashu: 2013-09-11 02:56:47 am

2013-09-11 02:54:52 am

I hope realxxxturkey changes his mind and posts videos or routes for all of his speedruns. The goal of speedrunners should be the same as the goal of tool assisted speedrunners/TASers - release as much information as possible about how you got the time you did (routes, tricks, cues, video, input files, etc) in the name of making the fast time possible, period, whether it's you or someone else. Heck, YOUR time can be made faster if someone else builds on your released knowledge and release something new for you to use. It's a co-operative sport, it's not competitive because there's nothing to compete over, and co-operation is in everyone's interest (the more interest and viewer speedrunning gets due to being of higher quality and more visible, the more people speedrun, the more people attend and watch marathons and donate to charity, etc etc)

Finally, if you are interested only in coming up with strategies and routes all by yourself - no one is stopping you from doing that. If a video is put up of a time attack, you don't have to click on it, you can just note the time and try to figure out how it could happen. That way, everyone is a winner (people who want to know and people who don't). It's like deliberately looking up spoilers then complaining that the plot isn't interesting anymore.

I hope to see WL3 time attacks get faster in the future Smiley

I hope realxxxturkey changes his mind and posts videos or routes for all of his speedruns. The goal of speedrunners should be the same as the goal of tool assisted speedrunners/TASers - release as much information as possible about how you got the time you did (routes, tricks, cues, video, input files, etc) in the name of making the fast time possible, period, whether it's you or someone else. Heck, YOUR time can be made faster if someone else builds on your released knowledge and release something new for you to use. It's a co-operative sport, it's not competitive because there's nothing to compete over, and co-operation is in everyone's interest (the more interest and viewer speedrunning gets due to being of higher quality and more visible, the more people speedrun, the more people attend and watch marathons and donate to charity, etc etc)

Finally, if you are interested only in coming up with strategies and routes all by yourself - no one is stopping you from doing that. If a video is put up of a time attack, you don't have to click on it, you can just note the time and try to figure out how it could happen. That way, everyone is a winner (people who want to know and people who don't). It's like deliberately looking up spoilers then complaining that the plot isn't interesting anymore.

I hope to see WL3 time attacks get faster in the future :)

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-09-12 08:56:57 pm

2013-09-12 08:56:27 pm

<(^_^)>

Quote from AdHoc:

Bad sportsmanship on this thread, very sad to see for a run I'm looking forward to...

INCREDIBLY disappointed to see people doing this <_< We care about seeing the best possible times pushed as low as possible, which means sharing strategies and such. If you're keeping strategies to yourself, then you're being incredibly self-centered. It also shows that you aren't confident that you can have the best time if others know what strategies you use. I can't even believe you're even suggesting to mike89 to not put videos of his best times on SDA in the first place <_<

vlack2294

2013-09-23 12:47:22 pm

Hello is that this game is very unusual to make speedrun which I have no idea why that happens but well here I wanted to leave any% two speedruns in this game in which I show excellent strats and got the WR.

1:30:07 http://www.twitch.tv/vlacksr/c/2935028
1:27:47(WR but it does not look good because I had problems with my internet while streaming Sad

) http://www.twitch.tv/vlacksr/c/2971275

vlack2294

2014-06-15 10:11:14 am

Now Any% in wario land 3 is very glitched, difficult, crazy and with many chests skips and another some skips using the new glitch wall jump than is placed in a specific location then use the dash(press B) to the wall then turn around then jump and finally forward to wall for stand on the wall as if an invisible platform well and this glitch have many variations and way to do.

Ok recently i get 56:43 in any% this is the run http://www.twitch.tv/vlacksr/c/4449768
and is very crazy to watch this I hope to see him interested Smiley