Warcraft 3 TFT / RoC

2013-03-22 04:12:24 pm

First TP-trick was pleasant surprise. Very nice finding yultan!
(About second TP Stupid wrote in his comments.)

---
Meanwhile also revenge of orcs after their fiasco in chapter UD 06.

This strategy is about 2+ mins improvement over Stupid's run on Orc 06:
However slow speed (and also with background noise) Roll Eyes

in-game time is 5:54

yultan

2013-03-22 05:26:35 pm

Quote from Archanfel:

(About second TP Stupid wrote in his comments.)

Strictly speaking, he said he should have move the tree of eternity, not building a new tree of life !

By the way, in your "thinking with portals" video, there is a part about this chapter with another strategy. Do you know who made it (the game is in Russian so it must be you or Artur1 Wink

), and what was the time !?

Quote from Archanfel:

Meanwhile also revenge of orcs after their fiasco in chapter UD 06.

Pfft, who needs Wyverns ... Cheesy

Fragmaster01

Edit history:

Fragmaster01: 2013-03-22 06:27:52 pm

2013-03-22 06:27:35 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Arch: You let too many of your troops die early. Take out the gryphons whenever they show, but leave the enemy ground troops for your wolves to hit. The dps from your troops would have made it a lot faster if they survived longer.

Archanfel

2013-03-23 04:57:53 am

@yultan
In "thinking with portals" it was 6:04 made by me. To destroy gate of deamons i used old Stupid's path thru forest.
Your new strategy with two TP-tricks is much better!

@Fragmaster01
It is true, most of them they died too early. But not be too cruel, it was just demonstration of strategy not the real run.
Also Artur1 said me (it was about a year ago) that i used too few watch towers here. So this chapter is definitely can be improved yet more.

yultan

Edit history:

yultan: 2013-07-16 02:28:16 pm

yultan: 2013-03-26 05:51:42 am

yultan: 2013-03-26 05:47:49 am

yultan: 2013-03-26 05:44:13 am

yultan: 2013-03-26 05:41:14 am

yultan: 2013-03-26 05:39:14 am

2013-03-23 05:54:41 am

edit : I said strat for Elf06 will not go under 5:20 ? Well, I was wrong Cheesy

I left the archer dying on purpose, but in fact it would be better to kill a wisp at the right time, although I'm not sure it will save a lot of time.

P.Ommes

2013-03-31 06:14:07 am

i'm glad this run is back Smiley

Peon

2013-07-12 03:44:30 pm

@Liderharen
Have we any chance to see continuation or you abandoned this project?
In any case it ~~was~~ is the best RTS speedrun i ever seen in my life.

yultan

Edit history:

yultan: 2013-07-20 03:22:37 pm

yultan: 2013-07-20 02:05:56 pm

2013-07-20 02:04:06 pm

Hi guys !
I am currently trying to put up a strategy for chapter UD8, but I'm struggling with the behavior of north base's griffins waves.

They seem to "move forward & attack" toward the closest necropolis and then come back to their base after necropolis destruction. But sometimes the attack is canceled after destroying only one or two buildings. I would say 1 time out of 4, but I don't know if it's pure random or determinist (but reaaaally complex). In doubt, I point out that for the strategy, these buildings are under contruction.

Here is a part of this chapter's .ia :

<< WB / NB / EB >>

The SuicideOnPlayer function is the issue. Does anyone ( and especially campaign editor experts Tongue

) know exactly how this function works, and what can make units to consider it as done ? ( which I believe can happen since griffins are able to come back home without finishing the job )

Actually these two behaviors bother me because if the attack is canceled, the second griffons wave comes around 21:40. But otherwise, it comes around 24:00 and I'm forced to TP earlier to kill the first wave, which obviously takes time.

Hi guys !
I am currently trying to put up a strategy for chapter UD8, but I'm struggling with the behavior of north base's griffins waves.

They seem to "move forward & attack" toward the closest necropolis and then come back to their base after necropolis destruction. But sometimes the attack is canceled after destroying only one or two buildings. I would say 1 time out of 4, but I don't know if it's pure random or determinist (but reaaaally complex). In doubt, I point out that for the strategy, these buildings are under contruction.

Here is a part of this chapter's .ia :
[hidden]   <<  WB  /  NB  /  EB  >>
[img]http://s24.postimg.org/mzur6iead/ud8_ais.png[/img]
[/hidden]

The SuicideOnPlayer function is the issue. Does anyone ( and especially campaign editor experts :P ) know exactly how this function works, and what can make units to consider it as done ? ( which I believe can happen since griffins are able to come back home without finishing the job )

Actually these two behaviors bother me because if the attack is canceled, the second griffons wave comes around 21:40. But otherwise, it comes around 24:00 and I'm forced to TP earlier to kill the first wave, which obviously takes time.

Liderharen

2013-07-29 02:20:54 pm

Just thought I would let you know that this project is not quite dead yet. I havn't touched it in months though, but im planning to start practicing again in the coming weeks. So stay tuned...

Archanfel

2013-07-29 04:46:16 pm

Quote from Liderharen:

Just thought I would let you know that this project is not quite dead yet. I havn't touched it in months though, but im planning to start practicing again in the coming weeks. So stay tuned...

Finally you back Smiley

It is great!
Q: Are you will unfreeze the streaming too, or you prefer to practice in solitude?

Quote from Kel'Thuzad:

Btw, are you plan to reopen your steaming sessions for next chapters? In previous year i saw only the last of them, but it was great one.

Quote from Liderharen:

Yea i might consider that. The current chapter is too boring for streaming, but the next one looks like it could be a lot of fun.

Arthur's plan for chapter 6 is as complicated as hell. So probably this chapter should to be quite interesting for streaming Roll Eyes

Quote from Artur1:

In ideal 5:20. But I am afraid it will be very hard to do because of a lot of random. Especially hard to kill Blade.

Liderharen

2013-07-29 11:49:05 pm

Maybe... But I feel like I have to get the chapter somewhere close to being good, before it makes sense to start streaming. This chapter is one of those chapters where you just have to get everything down to muscle memory, before it even becomes fun to play/watch. That is probably also the reason why it has taken me so long to get started running it.

goodhoopoe

2013-07-30 07:56:37 am

I love SDA!

Archanfel u looks so pathetic with no using of shortcut keys. try 2 use them.

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-07-30 10:24:27 am

2013-07-30 10:14:53 am

Quote from goodhoopoe:

Archanfel u looks so pathetic with no using of shortcut keys. try 2 use them.

No way! For creating my pathetic plans using "mouse only " was always more than enough Tongue

But dont worry, if when Liderharen will reach Orc campaign he will use tons of shortcut keys.

Btw a few things about Orc07:

Quote from Stupid:

Chapter 7: I need to get the Necklace of Spell Immunity off of the fat Razormane in the spike trap. When you use the spike trap however, the game first checks if the fat Razormane is inside of the pit, and if it is, it is simply removed before everything else inside the pit is killed, and thus the Necklace doesn't drop. It is actually possible to make the Necklace drop although the Razormane is killed by the trap (basically, the Razormane needs to be outside of the pit when the trigger checks if he's inside, and then move inside before everyone inside is killed), but that's obviously far too random to do consistently.

Actually it can be done consistently, when Razormane with our precious Necklace is located in this cross-linked area:

So episode with getting Necklace should be look approximately like this:

P.S. Yeah, scroll of resurrection can allow to go thru gate. So golem with key can be killed by trap Grin

[quote="goodhoopoe"][b]Archanfel[/b] u looks so pathetic with no using of shortcut keys. try 2 use them.[/quote]No way! For creating my pathetic plans using "mouse only " was always more than enough :P
But dont worry, [s]if[/s] when Liderharen will reach Orc campaign he will use tons of shortcut keys.

Btw a few things about Orc07: [quote="Stupid"]Chapter 7: I need to get the Necklace of Spell Immunity off of the fat Razormane in the spike trap. When you use the spike trap however, the game first checks if the fat Razormane is inside of the pit, and if it is, it is simply removed before everything else inside the pit is killed, and thus the Necklace doesn't drop. [b]It is actually possible to make the Necklace drop although the Razormane is killed by the trap[/b] (basically, the Razormane needs to be outside of the pit when the trigger checks if he's inside, and then move inside before everyone inside is killed), but that's obviously far too random to do consistently. [/quote]Actually it can be done consistently, when Razormane with our precious Necklace is located in this cross-linked area:
[URL=http://hostingkartinok.com][IMG]http://s6.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2013/07/6948bce75015a86f75a6732c7780f3b3.bmp[/IMG][/URL]

So episode with getting Necklace should be look approximately like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7HoU_XouyA

P.S. Yeah, scroll of resurrection can allow to go thru gate. So golem with key can be killed by trap ;D

Stupid

2013-07-30 12:00:27 pm

You are crazy.

yultan

Edit history:

yultan: 2013-08-15 08:30:31 am

yultan: 2013-08-15 08:29:34 am

yultan: 2013-08-15 08:24:35 am

2013-08-15 08:23:45 am

Time to wake up this thread !

Here is a plan for the first 5 minutes of UD8 chapter. Thanks to Artur1 and Archanfel for giving me the idea that slaughterhouses could be built around the outpost and that West Base should be destroyed entierly before TP. Feel free to point out what is definitely good or what needs to be changed.

As you can see I delayed the slaughterhouses construction to modify the odds ( raised to around 50% ) that griffins attack the ziggurate instead of the outpost.

I have currently not enough free time to finish the strat so I attached the save file. So if someone would finish the job and show us a final time, that would be great Smiley

PS : nice job about Orc07 Arch !

Attachment:

UD8.w3z

Kel'Thuzad

2013-08-19 02:20:09 am

Quote from Archanfel:

Btw a few things about Orc07

This is madness! And i like it Smiley

Quote from yultan:

Here is a plan for the first 5 minutes of UD8 chapter.

Very nice outpost strat! It so cool. Can't wait to see full chapter, it promise to be really epic battle! Though presently nearly all chapters are a bit insane Cheesy

Quote from yultan:

Feel free to point out what is definitely good or what needs to be changed.

So far all seem good (at least for me), only i guess possible to cause more damage by mines exploding, though may be it is too random to do it consistently. What omniscient Artur1 say?

Quote from Liderharen:

Just thought I would let you know that this project is not quite dead yet. I havn't touched it in months though, but im planning to start practicing again in the coming weeks. So stay tuned...

Glad that you back. I always believed that this project can't die until Eternity's End! Grin

(last elfs chapter).
...Meanwhile how your progress with chapter 6? Roll Eyes

[quote="Archanfel"]Btw a few things about Orc07[/quote]
This is madness! And i like it :)

[quote="yultan"]Here is a plan for the first 5 minutes of UD8 chapter.[/quote]
Very nice outpost strat! It so cool. Can't wait to see full chapter, it promise to be really epic battle! Though presently nearly all chapters are a bit insane :D
[quote="yultan"]Feel free to point out what is definitely good or what needs to be changed.[/quote]
So far all seem good (at least for me), only i guess possible to cause more damage by mines exploding, though may be it is too random to do it consistently. What omniscient Artur1 say?

[quote="Liderharen"]Just thought I would let you know that this project is not quite dead yet. I havn't touched it in months though, but im planning to start practicing again in the coming weeks. So stay tuned...[/quote]
Glad that you back. I always believed that this project can't die until Eternity's End! ;D (last elfs chapter).
...Meanwhile how your progress with chapter 6? ::)

Artur1

Edit history:

Artur1: 2013-08-22 01:53:52 pm

2013-08-22 12:36:31 pm

At 28:05 rifles start to attack.

Liderharen

2013-08-23 12:51:51 pm

I still havn't made it to the point where I use the TP.

Arthur seems to have blessed me with an impossible strat for chapter 6, so this is taking a while. I also don't have that much time at the moment.

But im still working on it, so sooner or (most likely) later you will see some progress.

tenfoLd

2013-08-23 04:44:07 pm

I have a question: Would there ever exist (or does there already exist) an IL table for this game?

I know hero levels/items/skillbuilds carry over from level to level throughout the campaigns, but iirc there is a cheat that lets you play any individual campaign. In inputting this cheat you are brought to the loading screen of whatever level and given a determined skillbuild, etc. Therefore, everyone could easily start on a level playing field.

I'm sorry if that was incoherent, hopefully someone understands my question and could enlighten me?

yultan

2013-08-23 05:04:49 pm

Quote from Artur1:

At 28:05 rifles start to attack.

Very nice idea ! ( as always Smiley

)
I'm pretty eager to see how you intend to attack early with Arthas + spiders. With necromancer management at the same time, this strat will definitely require more skill than mine but will surely require less landmines.

I see the necromancer will die around 27:15. Does that mean 40 pop will only be reached at that time ?

Quote from Liderharen:

I still havn't made it to the point where I use the TP.
Arthur seems to have blessed me with an impossible strat for chapter 6, so this is taking a while. I also don't have that much time at the moment.
But im still working on it, so sooner or (most likely) later you will see some progress.

If Artur1 maked the effort to say the strat was really hard, we can imagine how big is your pain. Grin

It's always cool to see you showing some signs of life. But if you think it's still too soon to stream, please think again. Wink

Archanfel

Edit history:

Archanfel: 2013-08-24 04:18:10 am

2013-08-24 03:33:19 am

Quote from iLLixiR:

I have a question: Would there ever exist (or does there already exist) an IL table for this game?

I know hero levels/items/skillbuilds carry over from level to level throughout the campaigns, but iirc there is a cheat that lets you play any individual campaign. In inputting this cheat you are brought to the loading screen of whatever level and given a determined skillbuild, etc. Therefore, everyone could easily start on a level playing field.

I'm sorry if that was incoherent, hopefully someone understands my question and could enlighten me?

As far as i know there are only one, very very old if not call it ancient IL table (from 2004).
And it was done on easy difficulty. So don't panic if find a few of times better than Liderharen, in all such rare cases it just because of facilitation rules.
I saw replays for all RoC missions (just for historical interest), and almost nothing interesting.

Edit: I have replays from this old IL table (only RoC). So if someone interesting to watch - i can share them. But be careful, they workable only in patch 1.12.

Quote from Liderharen:

I still havn't made it to the point where I use the TP.

Arthur seems to have blessed me with an impossible strat for chapter 6, so this is taking a while. I also don't have that much time at the moment.

But im still working on it, so sooner or (most likely) later you will see some progress.

Second part of Artur's strat after using TP is seems even harder... But don't give up - in this game there are nothing impossible for you!
P.S. I hope "later" will be happen somewhere before november. (i mean november of this year Wink

)

[quote="iLLixiR"]I have a question:  Would there ever exist (or does there already exist) an IL table for this game?

I know hero levels/items/skillbuilds carry over from level to level throughout the campaigns, but iirc there is a cheat that lets you play any individual campaign.  In inputting this cheat you are brought to the loading screen of whatever level and given a determined skillbuild, etc.  Therefore, everyone could easily start on a level playing field.

I'm sorry if that was incoherent, hopefully someone understands my question and could enlighten me?[/quote]
As far as i know there are only one, very very old if not call it ancient [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/warcraft_iii_and_the_frozen_throne.html]IL table[/url] (from 2004). 
And it was done on easy difficulty. So don't panic if find a few of times better than Liderharen, in all such rare cases it just because of facilitation rules.
I saw replays for all RoC missions (just for historical interest), and almost nothing interesting.

Edit: I have replays from this old IL table (only RoC). So if someone interesting to watch - i can share them. But be careful, they workable only in patch 1.12.

[quote="Liderharen"]I still havn't made it to the point where I use the TP.

Arthur seems to have blessed me with an impossible strat for chapter 6, so this is taking a while. I also don't have that much time at the moment.

But im still working on it, so sooner or (most likely) later you will see some progress.[/quote]
Second part of Artur's strat after using TP is seems even harder...  But don't give up - in this game there are nothing impossible for you!
P.S. I hope "later" will be happen somewhere before november. (i mean november of this year ;) )

Stupid

Edit history:

Stupid: 2013-10-11 06:00:00 pm

Stupid: 2013-10-09 05:56:12 am

Stupid: 2013-10-09 05:45:52 am

Stupid: 2013-10-09 05:16:20 am

2013-10-09 05:13:22 am

defying gravity

Watching some retro videos, I rediscovered a very old glitch that I had forgotten about: The farm bug! It's basically a gold generating glitch that seems to work pre-1.03. Have a look at 4:30:

I remember that the glitch got fixed before I knew about it, so I never used it myself, and I don't really know how it works, or if it works with any race other than human. I also don't know if it can be executed with normal play or if it required some hack. But if you could get it to work I guess it could potentially be very useful in some of the Human chapters.

Stupid

Edit history:

Stupid: 2013-10-09 03:31:37 pm

2013-10-09 03:18:11 pm

defying gravity

Ok, I tested it and as expected, this glitch is really huge for speedrunning the Human Campaign. I'm thinking maybe over 5 minutes of potential improvement in Chapter 5 alone. I took the glitch for a testdrive in Chapter 2 for a little bit, and got an 80+ second improvement over Liderharen's time for Quest 1 (obviously didn't have the micromanagement to do Quest 2 simultaneously :P):

ExplodingCabbage

2013-10-19 09:04:51 am

Huh - the second of the imbalance and bugs videos ( features a destructible bridge. I wonder if there are any of those in the campaigns, and whether destroying them could ever be useful?

Penguin of war

2013-10-20 08:31:59 am

Nice bugs! Especially would be great to see Chapter 5 with using farm-glitch Roll Eyes

Probably oldest versions have some other advantages?
http://www.danielstaniforth.co.uk/WarcraftIII/patch.html
Read list with fixes to find useful errors and imbalance.

Linderharen is still with us?
Community of antarctic penguins want to see the next chapter before happen global warming which will kill us all...