Video Playback Problems

2013-07-04 07:14:56 pm

Has anyone else reported problems with recent EQ videos, or do I have a problem on my end?

For instance, the Shogo: Mobile Armor Division 40:42 Extreme Quality and Insane Quality videos show up on my computer as almost entirely grey with a little bit of digitized noise at the top of the video. The audio track seems fine. The High Quality version, however, works fine.
I had the same problem with the Grand Theft Auto 3 1:11:57 Insane Quality video.
I got the files off of the torrent first, then tried the speeddemosarchive and archive.org direct download links.

Am I missing a codec? Is anyone else seeing these sorts of problems?

Thread title:

nate

2013-07-04 07:17:51 pm

what player/codec set are you using? whatever it is, it doesn't support h.264 playback with colorspaces other than yv12. if in doubt, use vlc.

more info: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/yua_alpha_9_307.html

btw, x-treme quality is xq, not eq.

ReverendTed

2013-07-04 07:25:49 pm

I'm using VLC, but I'll look into the link you posted.

nate

2013-07-04 07:29:06 pm

wtf. how recent vlc?

ReverendTed

Edit history:

ReverendTed: 2013-07-04 07:31:09 pm

2013-07-04 07:29:48 pm

1.01 (I honestly can't remember when I downloaded it.)
I'm downloading 2.07 and I'll try that.

nate

2013-07-04 07:31:42 pm

try downloading it again.

side note: vlc 2.0.7 crashes for me under os x when trying to play a short iq test clip. lol ...

if you're under windows, you can also install this and use media player classic which some people prefer.

ReverendTed

2013-07-04 07:37:37 pm

Thanks for being so quick on the draw, nate!
And yes, VLC 2.07 fixed my problem.

TheThrillness

2013-07-04 08:07:24 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Quote from nate:

if you're under windows, you can also install this and use media player classic which some people prefer.

Used to use CCCP but I really love this now: http://haruhichan.com/forum/showthread.php?7545-KCP-Kawaii-Codec-Pack

Main reason is madVR over EVR custom. The video quality is insane.

Cool Matty

2013-07-04 11:14:05 pm

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

The video quality in most video formats from madVR is inconsequential compared to the dramatic performance loss AND horrible bugginess it creates. You give up a great deal for what is a quality boost that you can only see in screenshots. Keep in mind that video should never be compared primarily on still images. Use what you like, but I wouldn't ever recommend madVR.

blizzz

2013-07-05 04:08:08 am

Imo MPC-HC + madVR is the only real option on PC if you want to play 24p content (all movies, TV series etc). It also supports fancy stuff like 10bit without downgrading to 8bit while processing and 4:4:4.

But, if you're happy with VLC then keep using VLC. Same with any other player, as long as it does its job.

nate

2013-07-05 08:19:45 am

i doubt you couldn't play 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 (i.e. new sda iq/xq) after installing the cccp. it's what all the weeaboos use after all.

Cool Matty

Edit history:

Cool Matty: 2013-07-05 08:27:53 am

2013-07-05 08:26:50 am

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Quote from blizzz:

Imo MPC-HC + madVR is the only real option on PC if you want to play 24p content (all movies, TV series etc). It also supports fancy stuff like 10bit without downgrading to 8bit while processing and 4:4:4.

A. Most monitors are not going to display 10-bit color anyway, so the only real benefit here is file compression, which would be unaffected.
B. 4:4:4 is easily decoded.
C. madVR is the only real option how? 24fps is not rocket science. madVR cannot playback 24p content perfectly on any 60hz monitor (read: most), it's not doing anything special here. Other players can do this just fine.

That's the thing that bothers me about people claiming madVR looks better. Unless you're spending upwards of $1000 on a monitor and video card supporting these features (and then configuring them afterwards, madVR doesn't do this!), you're not actually seeing any benefits. And even then, the benefits are minor and usually outweighed by dramatic decrease in performance and large amounts of bugs.

Tongue

[quote="blizzz"]Imo MPC-HC + madVR is the only real option on PC if you want to play 24p content (all movies, TV series etc). It also supports fancy stuff like 10bit without downgrading to 8bit while processing and 4:4:4.[/quote]

A. Most monitors are not going to display 10-bit color anyway, so the only real benefit here is file compression, which would be unaffected.
B. 4:4:4 is easily decoded.
C. madVR is the only real option how? 24fps is not rocket science. madVR cannot playback 24p content perfectly on any 60hz monitor (read: most), it's not doing anything special here. Other players can do this just fine.

That's the thing that bothers me about people claiming madVR looks better. Unless you're spending upwards of $1000 on a monitor and video card supporting these features (and then configuring them afterwards, madVR doesn't do this!), you're not actually seeing any benefits. And even then, the benefits are minor and usually outweighed by dramatic decrease in performance and large amounts of bugs.

:P

ballofsnow

Edit history:

ballofsnow: 2013-07-05 10:33:45 am

ballofsnow: 2013-07-05 10:32:08 am

2013-07-05 10:31:36 am

I'm trying to catch up on the 10 bit stuff, but I've read that because x264 can have 10 bit internal precision, that it leads to better quality video even if decoding 8 bit.

Found this: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/344136-How-to-encode-anime-to-10bit-x264?p=2146361&viewfull=1#post2146361

10-bit looks like the logical next step, but I'd agree it's not worth it if the software currently out there is still too buggy.

blizzz

2013-07-05 11:36:37 am

Quote from Cool Matty:

A. Most monitors are not going to display 10-bit color anyway, so the only real benefit here is file compression, which would be unaffected.
B. 4:4:4 is easily decoded.
C. madVR is the only real option how? 24fps is not rocket science. madVR cannot playback 24p content perfectly on any 60hz monitor (read: most), it's not doing anything special here. Other players can do this just fine.

That's the thing that bothers me about people claiming madVR looks better. Unless you're spending upwards of $1000 on a monitor and video card supporting these features (and then configuring them afterwards, madVR doesn't do this!), you're not actually seeing any benefits. And even then, the benefits are minor and usually outweighed by dramatic decrease in performance and large amounts of bugs.

Tongue

A. + C. I'm using a TV that can display 24p natively and supports 10bit HDMI. Also, 10bit encodes get rid of most of the banding problem. madVR switches the output to 23.976 Hz automatically, which is maybe my biggest plus point for it. For me the difference between 24p content at 60Hz and at 24Hz is worth the 5 minutes it takes to configure the madVR setup.
B. Yes, barely any decoding necessary for that. What I meant is that you can use the latest ffdshow tryouts and you're not stuck with the codecs that come with other software.

I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it bothered me that you you're not appreciating madVR Tongue

For videogame / 60fps content it really doesn't matter (much). And I don't think that spending $1000 on a TV and video card is anything special.

I'm not sure if 10bit is the logical next step. It's great for Anime because of the banding problem with 8bit. For other stuff there is barely any difference. The next step would be x265, but that's still in the distant future.

[quote="Cool Matty"]A. Most monitors are not going to display 10-bit color anyway, so the only real benefit here is file compression, which would be unaffected.
B. 4:4:4 is easily decoded.
C. madVR is the only real option how? 24fps is not rocket science. madVR cannot playback 24p content perfectly on any 60hz monitor (read: most), it's not doing anything special here. Other players can do this just fine.

That's the thing that bothers me about people claiming madVR looks better. Unless you're spending upwards of $1000 on a monitor and video card supporting these features (and then configuring them afterwards, madVR doesn't do this!), you're not actually seeing any benefits. And even then, the benefits are minor and usually outweighed by dramatic decrease in performance and large amounts of bugs.

:P[/quote]

A. + C. I'm using a TV that can display 24p natively and supports 10bit HDMI. Also, 10bit encodes get rid of most of the banding problem. madVR switches the output to 23.976 Hz automatically, which is maybe my biggest plus point for it. For me the difference between 24p content at 60Hz and at 24Hz is worth the 5 minutes it takes to configure the madVR setup.
B. Yes, barely any decoding necessary for that. What I meant is that you can use the latest ffdshow tryouts and you're not stuck with the codecs that come with other software.

I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it bothered me that you you're not appreciating madVR :P For videogame / 60fps content it really doesn't matter (much). And I don't think that spending $1000 on a TV and video card is anything special.

I'm not sure if 10bit is the logical next step. It's great for Anime because of the banding problem with 8bit. For other stuff there is barely any difference. The next step would be x265, but that's still in the distant future.

Cool Matty

2013-07-05 11:19:35 pm

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Well I personally don't appreciate it because it annoys the shit out of me when it screws up my desktop/crashes.

I don't appreciate it as a general recommendation because most people can't/won't see the difference.

Also, 10-bit color I think is a silly stop-gap measure, made worse by the fact that most hardware decoders do not support it. They should jump right to 16-bit color and be done with it for the next generation. Maybe then it'll drive deep color panels on something less than stratospheric-priced monitors/TVs.

nate

2013-07-06 08:33:44 am

yeah, 10-bit is basically standard for anime now. banding. but i've never understood the point for game content. are we not just encoding content that was originally 8-bit rgb (8 bits per color)? it seems like no 10-bit game has ever been released. there's no information i could find on the unreleased next gen consoles' games.

Mystery

2013-07-06 03:02:20 pm

Quote from nate:

ybut i've never understood the point for game content. are we not just encoding content that was originally 8-bit rgb (8 bits per color)? it seems like no 10-bit game has ever been released.

10 bit gives better compression regardless of source depth. The argument is this:
When performing arithmetic operations, we will lose information due to truncation since the target result should be N bits. This is especially important in motion compensation where H264 will use quarter interpolation to detect subpixel movements among other calculations. With less truncation, it means there is a higher likelihood that the encoder can find a matching block and encode that as a motion vector. If it can't do that, then the file size rises because it has to encode redundant information or quality suffers because it must use higher quantization.
Of course, being that each pixel is encoded as 10 bits, there is a tradeoff. Bigger file size vs better efficiency. Going with higher bits per colour will eventually bloat the size instead of reducing it. AFAIK, 16 bits is too much. It will only bloat the size.

[quote="nate"]ybut i've never understood the point for game content. are we not just encoding content that was originally 8-bit rgb (8 bits per color)? it seems like no 10-bit game has ever been released.[/quote]
10 bit gives better compression regardless of source depth. The argument is this:
When performing arithmetic operations, we will lose information due to truncation since the target result should be N bits. This is especially important in motion compensation where H264 will use quarter interpolation to detect subpixel movements among other calculations. With less truncation, it means there is a higher likelihood that the encoder can find a matching block and encode that as a motion vector. If it can't do that, then the file size rises because it has to encode redundant information or quality suffers because it must use higher quantization.
Of course, being that each pixel is encoded as 10 bits, there is a tradeoff. Bigger file size vs better efficiency. Going with higher bits per colour will eventually bloat the size instead of reducing it. AFAIK, 16 bits is too much. It will only bloat the size.

nate

2013-07-06 06:46:12 pm

ah, ok. i've also read that yv12 with h.264 is dumb, maybe for close to the same reason.

some days i despair because it seems like the lowest common denominator players will never support 4:2:2 or 10-bit, but then i remember that you can play sda mq out of the box on windows and pretty much everything else under the sun ... those of us who were around in ~2003 remember sites posting videos encoded to mpeg-1 (the video cd format from the late 1980s) because of out-of-the-box compatibility under windows xp. it's safe to say that sda mq is a step up from mpeg-1.

honorableJay

2013-07-06 09:11:23 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Oh I hope for the day when major tech companies actually keep up with the latest tech instead of lagging behind by 10 years.