Vandal Hearts

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2011-06-21 12:24:19 am

ZenicReverie: 2010-09-07 12:15:56 am

ZenicReverie: 2010-08-26 03:46:06 pm

ZenicReverie: 2010-08-07 08:32:18 pm

2007-10-10 12:51:51 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

---------------
Videos
---------------
I thought adding some videos of the game might drum up interest, let's see if it works. Once I start recording myself I'll post a select few more movies to whet appetites.

Game intro of first level, not player controlled, but it's scripted movement using the engine, so this is practically what the game looks like:

Also, the intro music/cut scene to the main menu, just because I like it so much, short, sweet, and melodic:

WIP videos, if you'd like to request a stage, feel free to PM me or post I'm up to (5-2):

[flash=425,340]

These two are the probably the worst segments in terms of quality, so I'll be replacing them (actually 1-1 thru 1-5) once I reach the end of the current run.

[flash=425,340]

---------------

---------------
Strategies for chapter 1.

***Stage 1***
Nothing really exciting here. I position Ash and Clint to kill Zoot on turn 2, and move Diego out of the way so no enemies can reach him.

Stage completed on turn 2 player.

***Stage 2***
This is long only because I need to move everyone across the map. Killing off my guys here doesn't help that happen any quicker. Highlights are Diego killing off all the airmen in one round of counter attacks.

Stage completed on turn 9 player.

***Stage 3***
Clint needs to get to level 7 by the end of this stage, which is easily done near the end of the battle. Getting the fire gem doesn't take too much more time. It'll be used in the next chapter to finish some dogs off quickly.

Stage completed on turn 10 enemy.

***Stage 4 - Rhine Bridge***
This is a quick stage as I rip through the bandits. Clint needed to be level 7 to deal enough damage to the archer in order to kill it. I'd rather not have the bats poison Diego, Ash, or Kira, but it doesn't hurt too much if only one of them gets poisoned.

Ash should easily be able to get to level 8, but it's something to keep in mind.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

***Stage 5***
With Ash at level 8, he has Ice Storm, which helps to make short work of the Death Ant without much retalition. After the battle, I buy Grog a better sword and get a Fire Gem for the last stage of chapter 2. (I need two Fire Gems, this one and one Clint picked up previously)

Stage completed on turn 2 player.

***Stage 6***
I used a different strategy here and moved everyone to one side, which keeps the far side from doing anything until it's too late. I would have liked Kira to be level 10 by the end of this, but it doesn't seem possible without drawing out the battle.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

---------------

---------------

***Stage 1***
I need to avoid the villagers instead of slaughtering them and make a push through the level since killing all of them will result in losing the stage.

Kira and Ash need to be level 10 by the end, which shouldn't slow anything down, but it's something to keep in mind.

Stage completed on turn 10 player.

***Stage 2***
I'd like to get everyone up to level 10 by the end of this, since not doing so will make them less effective later on. Getting everyone to level 10 and getting the class advancement increases their movement range and damage potential. I accomplish this by using items.

I need to send someone off to get the moodring in the chest. This will come in very handy in the next stage.

Stage completed on turn 6 enemy.

***Stage 3***
With the mood ring I'm able to take out one group of enemies turn 1.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
This went really well. I split the level in the middle with an in-battle save, which makes luck manipulation not suck. I still pick up a moodring in this level that I have yet to find a use for, so that could be a mistake since I have to take the time to move it from my inventory. I may just sell it for some extra cash, so hopefully it comes in handy that way and I actually need the money. Only Ash and Sara survive this battle.

Stage completed on turn 8 player.

***Stage 5***
Found a better strategy. Not really risky in any way, but it looks it. I thought I could use the mood ring+eleni to kill the golems, but it's totally unnecessary. In fact, beyond healing Ash once, Sara is left in the sidelines along with eleni or diego. I may use eleni for some extra experience since she needs to be level 14 next time I use her, and she's level 12 now. But actually, she needs to be level 14 after killing 1 guy, so it should be fine either way. I don't worry about leveling Kira since she comes back later at level 21 no matter what.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

***Stage 6***
The only way to complete this on turn 4 I've found is to have 2 fire gems.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

---------------

---------------

***Stage 1***
I don't know why this was turn 2 enemy, but I found the perfect placement so that the enemy gets slaughtered in counter attacks.
Stage completed on turn 1 enemy.

***Stage 2***
I cast phase shift twice, since Zohar needs the extra experience points.

Stage completed on turn 5 enemy.

***Stage 3***
Clive NPC is actually useful if I can position him just so by manipulating his AI, he delivers the finishing blow to end the stage. I grab the Unicorn with Sara and use it here; she also uses a mage oil, allowing Zohar to cast phase shift 3 times. Dolan is sacrificed, but gains a couple of levels in the process. A very close stage for Ash.

Stage completed on turn 3 enemy.

***Stage 4***
I found a way to manipulate the mage and priest into coming towards my guys, so now I kill them a turn early.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 5***
I have a very quick strategy here now as long as I'm able to get Zohar to level 18 by this time. It involves Zohar Phase Shifting three times and Ash assisting with some kills. It's funny because I start the Ambush on the turn Ash says "Just a little bit closer." Wink

Stage completed on turn 7 player.

***Stage 6***
Eleni gets to level 14 and casts Phase Shift twice, killing many guards. See next round for a repeat of this.

Stage completed on turn 6 player.

***Stage 7***
So, I figured out that Dumas comes down after you kill off a certain number of the other enemies, so I do my best to meet that number. I don't have to drop the gate though since Amon and Clint wouldn't be of much use against Dumas, and I really don't care about the key. I was having Dolan take point, but the majority of the time he gained too much Atk and my strategy didn't work, so I use Ash, which is actually faster.

Stage completed on turn 6 player.

---------------

---------------
Things I must remember before going on... advance Darius, exchange items, sell items, and equip people. Probably going to be its own segment

***Stage 1***
It's a game of how fast can I kill off everyone except Ash. Answer? 3 turns.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 2***
Amon picks up the Aura Gem so I don't have to transfer it later, this'll be used in stage 4-5. Completed a turn earlier and 12 minutes faster than the test run. I hope I can make that much savings on the rest of the stages.

Stage completed on turn 7 player.

***Stage 3***
I have a good strategy for this now that makes the archers not so annoying, and it's a turn earlier than my other strategies. I'm finding that I bought enough mage gems... probably too many as the armors each have one still.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
I push Eleni and Zohar throughout the entire mission, sadly I'm underleveled compared to the test run, so this might be a little slower and 3 turns longer because no one else can keep up with the mages and still be useful. I don't even bother moving Clint, Grog, or Dolan and let them fall off with the first car. Once I get Darius up to 20 I let him fall off the second car as well. ~~Diego barely makes 20, and Amon might die unless I can find a good way to avoid that.~~ Diego doesn't make it to 20, but in exchange I get to save Amon from death, making getting Sara up to 20 easier. I also let Diego fall off for being dead weight.

Stage completed on turn 8 player. (This used to be turn 5, but that's only possible if everyone except the armors got up to 20 class transfer before this)

***Stage 5***
Save Kira fast. ~~This becomes a big pain if I don't have a skylord with an aura gem, which I will have, so this is a fairly straight-forward level.~~ The enemies on this level didn't seem to want to cooperate, but I eventually got through with Amon using the Aura Gem and the mages taking out the rest of the targets.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

---------------

---------------

***Stage 1***
I hate this stage because you can't charge through it. Too many mages and archers make it very hard to not lose one or two guys. (I'll probably just sacrifice guys for a better position. Something to note is that I should get the armors and clint to 20 by the end of this level) After running this stage I actually hate it because the mage AI is wacky. No matter if I do exactly the same movements they can choose different targets and different spells each attempt. The only choices that work for my strategy only happen 1 in 6 it seems, but that's not a straight 1 in 6, that's just the number of options the first turn can play out. With the first turn out of the way though I'm pretty much home free. There's a strange quirk in the AI as well, which you'll see when viewing this level.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

I need to remember to advance Kira and buy equipment for her; otherwise she can't take out the boss. Also, I should advance Clint and the armors since I'm already advancing people.
***Stage 2***
This is as fast as I've found to do this. ~~I charge with four or five guys and move one airman left and the other right. The one on the right takes the fire and the left takes out the Boss.~~ I actually only charge with Kira and Eleni. Amon takes some fire and doesn't die with the benefits of the water bonus, although being at an even lower elevation might negate it that advantage. Sara, Zohar, and Darius take out the 5 enemies behind me. Clint also moves off to the left of the bridge to take an attack from an airman.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 3***
Another quick stage. Turn 1, position, turn 2 launch full assault, turn 3 clean up.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
Charge the dragon! By this stage my mages should now have Salamander... I need to make sure I get a wyrmfang for defeating the boss. For some reason this didn't happen once before. It could have been due to not killing a certain number of enemies, but I really don't know and every source I've read says the item is a given. So I made several attempts and not one resulted in not getting the wyrmfang, so I'm not sure how I didn't get it before. I get my mages to 25 in this stage, but there really isn't an excuse to use Salamander here.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 5***
The boss takes 4 good attacks to die, so I charge with everyone and take Sabina out with 2 archers, 1 airmen, and 1 monk. I group the fresh troops together so that they take heavy damage from the two Salamanders that also take out Sabina's line of Armors, and I'm able to finish off the same turn they show up. This strategy allows me to lure Sabina out and take her down a turn earlier.

Stage completed on turn 5 player.

***Stage 6***
Leena moves at the end of the enemy turns, and only if she has a clear path to where she wants to move. She'll avoid enemies as much as possible. So, it's all a matter of killing the enemy as fast as possible without blocking Leena's next move. Picking up a wyrmfang from the chest gives the quickest strategy for the last level.

Stage completed on turn 9 enemy.

---------------

---------------

***Stage 1***
This stage is made possible without healers by the item H2O Water, I need to buy two of them (this is most likely not the quickest strategy, I'll be exploring others, and most likely letting many guys die off here). Kane doesn't come down from his perch until you're close enough (I actually noticed in a video that he came down without being too close, so maybe I just have to wait him out -- needs testing), so it's another race towards the enemy.

Stage completed on turn 9 player.

***Stage 2***
Pretty simple stage, just move forward to wipe the enemies out, nothing too difficult. It feels like a filler stage to get a little more story into the plot.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 3***
My guys start to drop due to the heavy magic use, but I get enough damage through to take out the boss when I reach him.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
My last run here ended on turn 4, ~~so I may have been a little slower than usual. I may have focused my damage differently or possibly due to having Clint as an Armor.~~ It was actually the fact I only got 1 wyrmfang instead of two, I somehow missed getting the wyrm fang from the salamander.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

Thread title:

---------------
Videos
---------------
I thought adding some videos of the game might drum up interest, let's see if it works.  Once I start recording myself I'll post a select few more movies to whet appetites.

Game intro of first level, not player controlled, but it's scripted movement using the engine, so this is practically what the game looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1Pajl8dMXE

Also, the intro music/cut scene to the main menu, just because I like it so much, short, sweet, and melodic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7ucnb2qwU

WIP videos, if you'd like to request a stage, feel free to PM me or post I'm up to (5-2):
[spoiler="Stage 1-1"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/z_K8XPVH7mI&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 1-6"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/CupseOSkrtE&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 2-1"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/uAgoaQaK3V0&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 3-2"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/iKYT5hqtmUw&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 3-3"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/zfWMAbTptao&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 3-5"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/pasIvfaQBiQ&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 4-1"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/XtUmHSP8lf8&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 4-2 Part 1/2"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/F0FW0HVpZPc&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 4-2 Part 2/2"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/9mqgHkUIFd8&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 4-3"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/Hk20yPWZ-DQ&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 5-3"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/GFrlxvGzXX0&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]

These two are the probably the worst segments in terms of quality, so I'll be replacing them (actually 1-1 thru 1-5) once I reach the end of the current run.
[spoiler="Stage 1-2"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/6AOXc1UkqaY&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 1-5"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/n1nazCb4C60&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]

---------------
[spoiler="Chapter 1"]
---------------
Strategies for chapter 1.

***Stage 1*** 
Nothing really exciting here.  I position Ash and Clint to kill Zoot on turn 2, and move Diego out of the way so no enemies can reach him.

Stage completed on turn 2 player.

***Stage 2***
This is long only because I need to move everyone across the map.  Killing off my guys here doesn't help that happen any quicker.  Highlights are Diego killing off all the airmen in one round of counter attacks.

Stage completed on turn 9 player.

***Stage 3***
Clint needs to get to level 7 by the end of this stage, which is easily done near the end of the battle.  Getting the fire gem doesn't take too much more time. It'll be used in the next chapter to finish some dogs off quickly.

Stage completed on turn 10 enemy.

***Stage 4 - Rhine Bridge***
This is a quick stage as I rip through the bandits.  Clint needed to be level 7 to deal enough damage to the archer in order to kill it.  I'd rather not have the bats poison Diego, Ash, or Kira, but it doesn't hurt too much if only one of them gets poisoned.

Ash should easily be able to get to level 8, but it's something to keep in mind.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

***Stage 5***
With Ash at level 8, he has Ice Storm, which helps to make short work of the Death Ant without much retalition.  After the battle, I buy Grog a better sword and get a Fire Gem for the last stage of chapter 2. (I need two Fire Gems, this one and one Clint picked up previously)

Stage completed on turn 2 player.

***Stage 6***
I used a different strategy here and moved everyone to one side, which keeps the far side from doing anything until it's too late.  I would have liked Kira to be level 10 by the end of this, but it doesn't seem possible without drawing out the battle.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.
[/spoiler]
---------------
[spoiler="Chapter 2"]
---------------

***Stage 1***
I need to avoid the villagers instead of slaughtering them and make a push through the level since killing all of them will result in losing the stage.

Kira and Ash need to be level 10 by the end, which shouldn't slow anything down, but it's something to keep in mind.

Stage completed on turn 10 player.

***Stage 2***
I'd like to get everyone up to level 10 by the end of this, since not doing so will make them less effective later on.  Getting everyone to level 10 and getting the class advancement increases their movement range and damage potential.  I accomplish this by using items.

I need to send someone off to get the moodring in the chest.  This will come in very handy in the next stage.

Stage completed on turn 6 enemy.

***Stage 3***
With the mood ring I'm able to take out one group of enemies turn 1.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
This went really well.  I split the level in the middle with an in-battle save, which makes luck manipulation not suck. I still pick up a moodring in this level that I have yet to find a use for, so that could be a mistake since I have to take the time to move it from my inventory.  I may just sell it for some extra cash, so hopefully it comes in handy that way and I actually need the money. Only Ash and Sara survive this battle.

Stage completed on turn 8 player.

***Stage 5***
Found a better strategy.  Not really risky in any way, but it looks it.  I thought I could use the mood ring+eleni to kill the golems, but it's totally unnecessary.  In fact, beyond healing Ash once, Sara is left in the sidelines along with eleni or diego.  I may use eleni for some extra experience since she needs to be level 14 next time I use her, and she's level 12 now.  But actually, she needs to be level 14 after killing 1 guy, so it should be fine either way.  I don't worry about leveling Kira since she comes back later at level 21 no matter what.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

***Stage 6***
The only way to complete this on turn 4 I've found is to have 2 fire gems.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.
[/spoiler]
---------------
[spoiler="Chapter 3"]
---------------

***Stage 1***
I don't know why this was turn 2 enemy, but I found the perfect placement so that the enemy gets slaughtered in counter attacks.
Stage completed on turn 1 enemy.

***Stage 2***
I cast phase shift twice, since Zohar needs the extra experience points.

Stage completed on turn 5 enemy.

***Stage 3***
Clive NPC is actually useful if I can position him just so by manipulating his AI, he delivers the finishing blow to end the stage.  I grab the Unicorn with Sara and use it here; she also uses a mage oil, allowing Zohar to cast phase shift 3 times.  Dolan is sacrificed, but gains a couple of levels in the process.  A very close stage for Ash.

Stage completed on turn 3 enemy.

***Stage 4***
I found a way to manipulate the mage and priest into coming towards my guys, so now I kill them a turn early.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 5***
I have a very quick strategy here now as long as I'm able to get Zohar to level 18 by this time.  It involves Zohar Phase Shifting three times and Ash assisting with some kills.  It's funny because I start the Ambush on the turn Ash says "Just a little bit closer." ;)

Stage completed on turn 7 player.

***Stage 6***
Eleni gets to level 14 and casts Phase Shift twice, killing many guards.  See next round for a repeat of this.

Stage completed on turn 6 player.

***Stage 7***
So, I figured out that Dumas comes down after you kill off a certain number of the other enemies, so I do my best to meet that number.  I don't have to drop the gate though since Amon and Clint wouldn't be of much use against Dumas, and I really don't care about the key.  I was having Dolan take point, but the majority of the time he gained too much Atk and my strategy didn't work, so I use Ash, which is actually faster.

Stage completed on turn 6 player.
[/spoiler]
---------------
[spoiler="Chapter 4"]
---------------
Things I must remember before going on... advance Darius, exchange items, sell items, and equip people.  Probably going to be its own segment

***Stage 1***
It's a game of how fast can I kill off everyone except Ash.  Answer? 3 turns.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 2***
Amon picks up the Aura Gem so I don't have to transfer it later, this'll be used in stage 4-5. Completed a turn earlier and 12 minutes faster than the test run. I hope I can make that much savings on the rest of the stages.

Stage completed on turn 7 player.

***Stage 3***
I have a good strategy for this now that makes the archers not so annoying, and it's a turn earlier than my other strategies. I'm finding that I bought enough mage gems... probably too many as the armors each have one still.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
I push Eleni and Zohar throughout the entire mission, sadly I'm underleveled compared to the test run, so this might be a little slower and 3 turns longer because no one else can keep up with the mages and still be useful.  I don't even bother moving Clint, Grog, or Dolan and let them fall off with the first car.  Once I get Darius up to 20 I let him fall off the second car as well. [s]Diego barely makes 20, and Amon might die unless I can find a good way to avoid that.[/s] Diego doesn't make it to 20, but in exchange I get to save Amon from death, making getting Sara up to 20 easier. I also let Diego fall off for being dead weight.

Stage completed on turn 8 player. (This used to be turn 5, but that's only possible if everyone except the armors got up to 20 class transfer before this)

***Stage 5***
Save Kira fast.  [s]This becomes a big pain if I don't have a skylord with an aura gem, which I will have, so this is a fairly straight-forward level.[/s] The enemies on this level didn't seem to want to cooperate, but I eventually got through with Amon using the Aura Gem and the mages taking out the rest of the targets.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.
[/spoiler]
---------------
[spoiler="Chapter 5"]
---------------

***Stage 1***
I hate this stage because you can't charge through it.  [s]Too many mages and archers make it very hard to not lose one or two guys. (I'll probably just sacrifice guys for a better position. Something to note is that I should get the armors and clint to 20 by the end of this level)[/s] After running this stage I actually hate it because the mage AI is wacky. No matter if I do exactly the same movements they can choose different targets and different spells each attempt. The only choices that work for my strategy only happen 1 in 6 it seems, but that's not a straight 1 in 6, that's just the number of options the first turn can play out. With the first turn out of the way though I'm pretty much home free. There's a strange quirk in the AI as well, which you'll see when viewing this level.

Stage completed on turn 4 player.

I need to remember to advance Kira and buy equipment for her; otherwise she can't take out the boss. Also, I should advance Clint and the armors since I'm already advancing people.
***Stage 2***
This is as fast as I've found to do this.  [s]I charge with four or five guys and move one airman left and the other right.  The one on the right takes the fire and the left takes out the Boss.[/s] I actually only charge with Kira and Eleni. Amon takes some fire and doesn't die with the benefits of the water bonus, although being at an even lower elevation might negate it that advantage. Sara, Zohar, and Darius take out the 5 enemies behind me. Clint also moves off to the left of the bridge to take an attack from an airman.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 3***
Another quick stage.  Turn 1, position, turn 2 launch full assault, turn 3 clean up.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
Charge the dragon!  [s]By this stage my mages should now have Salamander... ;)  I need to make sure I get a wyrmfang for defeating the boss.  For some reason this didn't happen once before. It could have been due to not killing a certain number of enemies, but I really don't know and every source I've read says the item is a given.[/s] So I made several attempts and not one resulted in not getting the wyrmfang, so I'm not sure how I didn't get it before. I get my mages to 25 in this stage, but there really isn't an excuse to use Salamander here.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 5***
The boss takes 4 good attacks to die, so I charge with everyone and take Sabina out with 2 archers, 1 airmen, and 1 monk. I group the fresh troops together so that they take heavy damage from the two Salamanders that also take out Sabina's line of Armors, and I'm able to finish off the same turn they show up. This strategy allows me to lure Sabina out and take her down a turn earlier.

Stage completed on turn 5 player.

***Stage 6***
Leena moves at the end of the enemy turns, and only if she has a clear path to where she wants to move. She'll avoid enemies as much as possible.  So, it's all a matter of killing the enemy as fast as possible without blocking Leena's next move.  Picking up a wyrmfang from the chest gives the quickest strategy for the last level.

Stage completed on turn 9 enemy.
[/spoiler]
---------------
[spoiler="Chapter 6"]
---------------

***Stage 1***
This stage is made possible without healers by the item H2O Water, I need to buy two of them (this is most likely not the quickest strategy, I'll be exploring others, and most likely letting many guys die off here).  Kane doesn't come down from his perch until you're close enough (I actually noticed in a video that he came down without being too close, so maybe I just have to wait him out -- needs testing), so it's another race towards the enemy.

Stage completed on turn 9 player.

***Stage 2***
Pretty simple stage, just move forward to wipe the enemies out, nothing too difficult.  It feels like a filler stage to get a little more story into the plot.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 3***
My guys start to drop due to the heavy magic use, but I get enough damage through to take out the boss when I reach him.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.

***Stage 4***
My last run here ended on turn 4, [s]so I may have been a little slower than usual.  I may have focused my damage differently or possibly due to having Clint as an Armor.[/s]  It was actually the fact I only got 1 wyrmfang instead of two, I somehow missed getting the wyrm fang from the salamander.

Stage completed on turn 3 player.
[/spoiler]

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2007-10-10 07:52:58 am

2007-10-10 07:52:40 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Wow, this was one of my favorite SRPGs when I was young. I don't think this would be the most exciting run, but there might be some interesting strategy (especially in the missions where you only need to kill the team leader).

Note: I haven't played this in so long I forgot all of the unit names, just bear with me here.

First off, don't go out of your way to level up. You should get plenty of levels from completing the missions.

Also, you might want to turn one or both of your healers into monks. I know, monks suck, but white mages do zero damage.

It should go without saying black mages should be upgraded along the mage path Tongue

I have a feeling you want more wing soldier than archers, since wing soldier do more damage. However, Wing soldiers become less effective as the game goes on.

I think you should have an armorman or two, since they're stupidly effective mid-game. However, in the later missions, they're useless (can't cover space quickly enough).

Yeah I know none of this stuff is specific, but I've never attempted to speedrun the game.

Wow, this was one of my favorite SRPGs when I was young.  I don't think this would be the most exciting run, but there might be some interesting strategy (especially in the missions where you only need to kill the team leader).

Note: I haven't played this in so long I forgot all of the unit names, just bear with me here.

First off, don't go out of your way to level up. You should get plenty of levels from completing the missions.

Also, you might want to turn one or both of your healers into monks.  I know, monks suck, but white mages do zero damage.

It should go without saying black mages should be upgraded along the mage path :P

I have a feeling you want more wing soldier than archers, since wing soldier do more damage.  However, Wing soldiers become less effective as the game goes on.

I think you should have an armorman or two, since they're stupidly effective mid-game.  However, in the later missions, they're useless (can't cover space quickly enough).

Yeah I know none of this stuff is specific, but I've never attempted to speedrun the game.

sulretal

2007-10-10 12:09:31 pm

Holla?

I just don't see this game being speed run. It's quite an awesome game, yet I could imagine it'd take longer than 8hours to speedrun. :-[

getter77

2007-10-10 01:20:45 pm

100% runs=great to watch

I've never seen an SRPG run that I didn't find absolutely enthralling...so I say go for it even if it does wind up having to be one of the longer runs on SDA.

ZenicReverie

2007-10-11 12:45:49 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

It's been a while since I've gone through the game, but 8 hours seems like a lot more than I remember, maybe 6 hours... I'll work on it over the next couple of months and post a better estimate plus any useful tactics.

Ragnarok

2007-10-11 09:12:45 am

I would definitely say that it can't take too long to speed run because it took me slightly over 19 hours to beat it the first time. I think 5 to 6 hours is a good estimate.

Razakin

2007-10-29 03:23:30 am

Quote:

First off, don't go out of your way to level up. You should get plenty of levels from completing the missions.

Also, if you level up guys, leave the main char out of it. If I remember correctly, the levels of enemies are almost same as main characters.

Anyways, looking forward of this.

(And my first post in here, broke my lurking status, bloody hell.)

Ragnarok

2007-10-29 04:42:14 am

Only the trial battles' enemies' levels are based off Ash's level. Since getting Vandalier is a waste of time in a speedrun, Ash's level does not need to be kept low. I too would agree that there is no need to level up. ( I could be wrong though)

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2008-01-17 10:55:19 pm

2007-10-30 09:31:58 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

---------------
Jan 17
---------------
I've put an order for the DVD recorder, but it's back ordered, so I'm waiting for that to ship at the moment. I'm still working on the strategy involved. The most time saving things will be to make as few moves as possible, limit long animations, and reduce the number of moves the enemy ends up doing, which usually means reduce the number of turns a stage takes to complete.

---------------
Jan 2
---------------
So final time for my latest test run is , last save 10 h 14 minutes, which puts the final time at approximately 10 h 33 minutes, which is a 5 hour improvement over a regular play through. This is without any specific optimization and I was mostly testing how the game would flow without Armor or Archer classes. With optimization of each map I hope to bring that down by 3 hours, but 2 hours seems more reasonable. I'm still having fun with the game, so I'm not giving up hope yet on getting the timing down.

Battles 1 and 2 are fairly optimized at this point, having played them enough and their simplicity. Everything else will be up for further optimization as I go along. Although I'm getting to a solid strategy for battle 4 as well as battle 5. Much of the time saving will come from later chapters.

I have some more testing to do, including seeing if abusing a leveling exploit will be of any assistance to the run. At this point, I can safely say that I'll need 1 - 2 Armor classes and 1 - 2 Archer classes. I'm leaning more towards 2 in both cases, as the swordsmen class are about as useless in the late game as the armor class, but armor is insanely powerful in the mid game. After a couple more rounds of testing, I'll break down the strategy on a per level basis.

---------------
Jan 17
---------------
I've put an order for the DVD recorder, but it's back ordered, so I'm waiting for that to ship at the moment.  I'm still working on the strategy involved.  The most time saving things will be to make as few moves as possible, limit long animations, and reduce the number of moves the enemy ends up doing, which usually means reduce the number of turns a stage takes to complete.

---------------
Jan 2
---------------
So final time for my latest test run is , last save 10 h 14 minutes, which puts the final time at approximately 10 h 33 minutes, which is a 5 hour improvement over a regular play through.  This is without any specific optimization and I was mostly testing how the game would flow without Armor or Archer classes.  With optimization of each map I hope to bring that down by 3 hours, but 2 hours seems more reasonable.  I'm still having fun with the game, so I'm not giving up hope yet on getting the timing down.

Battles 1 and 2 are fairly optimized at this point, having played them enough and their simplicity.  Everything else will be up for further optimization as I go along.  Although I'm getting to a solid strategy for battle 4 as well as battle 5.  Much of the time saving will come from later chapters.

I have some more testing to do, including seeing if abusing a leveling exploit will be of any assistance to the run.  At this point, I can safely say that I'll need 1 - 2 Armor classes and 1 - 2 Archer classes.  I'm leaning more towards 2 in both cases, as the swordsmen class are about as useless in the late game as the armor class, but armor is insanely powerful in the mid game.  After a couple more rounds of testing, I'll break down the strategy on a per level basis.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2008-01-03 06:13:21 am

2007-12-20 09:41:26 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

----------------
Progress: Dec-30
----------------
So final save time was 15 hours 16 minutes with about 17 more minutes for the final level up to the final blow of Dolf. I think that's where the time stops although there is some further dialogue that I have to go through. That only adds about 2 - 3 more minutes.

Right now I'm going through a test run with some small bits of strategy to get a better idea for what works and what doesn't. Specifically I'm trying a run without armor class, archer class, or healer class characters. Monks have some good healing abilities that are nearly on par with healers, but they have to be right next to the other character, so we'll see how that goes. In chapter six there is an item call H2O Water which allows anyone to heal the entire party, so I definitely won't miss the healer in that regard. I think the only class I'll really miss are the archers since I really won't have a good defense against wingmen.

So far a definitely unoptimized run, but test speed run has me at the end of chapter 2-1 at 1 hour 18 minutes, which is about an hour faster so far. Something I've noticed is that I really have to watch who's leveling up, as I need to have certain people at the next class transfer as soon as possible. Kira for instance needs to be level 10 for 2-2 so she can hit the switch on turn 2 instead of turn 3. Magic items will definitely increase the speed of battles, so I also need to plan out my gold spending and find where I can purchase and use effectively the magic items.

After this test run is completed, I'll need to figure out exactly where I want to segment the run. I'm thinking of doing it basically any time I'm allowed to save just because the enemy blocking will slow down the run an extra turn or more. It's a real pain and appears to be quite random. Things go along considerably faster if the enemy never blocks. I can see the enemy blocking being quite the run killer in a single segment run. Either that or I'd have to take less risky strategies. As there were a number of times I took out an enemy with only a few HP to spare. Also, status effects can be quite troublesome.

The next update I'll more this casual play info down further in the thread to make way for strategy planning and test run info. After that I'll condense this post again to form the strategy I'll use in the final run and the progress of that.

I wonder if anyone is reading this... Tongue

----------------
Progress: Dec-28
----------------
I expect to have a recorder by end of January, probably closer to mid-January, so the recording will start the latest by then.

The holidays took their toll on my play time, as I attended to familial duties. Anyway, I've just made some good progress on the casual play through.

I'm up to Chapter 5-1 with a play time of 10 hours 40 minutes. There have been quite a few levels I could have done faster, and will take advantage of in the speed run.

I've been having trouble the past couple of scenarios because my heavies are falling behind in levels, since they have trouble reaching the enemies, thus they are the last ones to yet get upgrades. My bowman and swordsman had the same trouble, but have been able to catch up at the end of 5-1.

Getting the second class transfer and keeping up with equipment really is essential to having a quick time since without them, the fights last longer. I seem to have an over abundance of gold at the moment as well, so in the speed run, I'll do my best to purchase combat items as necessary.

Inventory management will play a vital role in getting a good time. Spells are powerful, but they become costly when considering time. I'll have to run some tests to see what the animation times are and how that plays against how powerful the spell is.

I'll finish up the casual playthrough before I post next. My next post will have the final time for that game, which shouldn't be much more than 15 hours I'm guessing. The purpose being to get myself familiar with the game again, and get a high time estimate, half of which should be a good speed run estimate.

I'll discuss some strategy as well for the different levels and development paths of each character. Then it's on to the slow run where I'll go through and collect as many items as possible and test out different strategies.

----------------
Progress: Dec-20
----------------
I don't have a recorder yet, but getting one should be imminent. So, in the spirit of that, I've started playing through the game casually since it's been a few years since I've picked it up. The first thing I've noticed are all the ways I can save time by not playing how I normally play. After the intro scene and first fight I saved at 11 minutes. I then did a trial speed run of the same segment and got a time of 4 minutes (3 minutes should totally be possible with perfect execution), so cutting my end play time of the casual play through in half should be a good estimate of overall time.

At the end of Chapter 2, stage 1 of casual play I'm at 2 hours 10 minutes. One of the hardest parts of the run will probably be balancing the purchase of equipment. One of the highlights was an excellent, and close, battle against the sand ant where he fell in 2 rounds, so that will most likely be close to the strategy I use there, but it requires I collect the fire gem in the golem level, which is easy enough to do.

I'm planning to do a slow run after this to test inventory (item and equipment) management. I'll collect everything and execute my battle plans, but I'll attempt to use as little of the items and equipment I get, and test to see what is quicker against how long it takes to get the items... This will probably be the slowest part. After that I should have a good plan for the speedrun. Definitely going to be segmented at first. Depending on how small I can make the run, I will also attempt a single segment after that so long as I can find the time.

----------------
Logistic Info
----------------
Saves are shown to the minute, but seconds are also recorded. This was tested by saving, loading, waiting 35 seconds, then repeating across 3 save files. This'll make timing a lot easier.

----------------
Old Post
----------------
So far, I've picked three games to try and speedrun based on how easy it would be for me to complete the run. Here's one that would take a little more planning and luck to get through fairly quickly.

Vandal Hearts is a turn based strategy game, much like Ogre Tactics and Final Fantasy Tactics. It's for the PS1, and has a few missions where you can choose speed over progression, so it might be interesting to watch. If there's any interest, then I'll post more on planning the run.

I'm thinking a segmented run depending on how things look, but might be persuaded to make it SS. Recording wouldn't start until next year, but I really want to get something planned and practice soon, so I'll have something to record and post.

I know of one trick where you can rack up some easy levels, but I'll probably skip that because it takes a while to do. Also, I won't be getting the Vandalier (sp?). I'll leave that for the 100% run. This is what I'm thinking so far.

----------------
Progress: Dec-30
----------------
So final save time was 15 hours 16 minutes with about 17 more minutes for the final level up to the final blow of Dolf.  I think that's where the time stops although there is some further dialogue that I have to go through.  That only adds about 2 - 3 more minutes.

Right now I'm going through a test run with some small bits of strategy to get a better idea for what works and what doesn't.  Specifically I'm trying a run without armor class, archer class, or healer class characters.  Monks have some good healing abilities that are nearly on par with healers, but they have to be right next to the other character, so we'll see how that goes.  In chapter six there is an item call H2O Water which allows anyone to heal the entire party, so I definitely won't miss the healer in that regard.  I think the only class I'll really miss are the archers since I really won't have a good defense against wingmen.

So far a definitely unoptimized run, but test speed run has me at the end of chapter 2-1 at 1 hour 18 minutes, which is about an hour faster so far.  Something I've noticed is that I really have to watch who's leveling up, as I need to have certain people at the next class transfer as soon as possible.  Kira for instance needs to be level 10 for 2-2 so she can hit the switch on turn 2 instead of turn 3.  Magic items will definitely increase the speed of battles, so I also need to plan out my gold spending and find where I can purchase and use effectively the magic items.

After this test run is completed, I'll need to figure out exactly where I want to segment the run.  I'm thinking of doing it basically any time I'm allowed to save just because the enemy blocking will slow down the run an extra turn or more.  It's a real pain and appears to be quite random.  Things go along considerably faster if the enemy never blocks.  I can see the enemy blocking being quite the run killer in a single segment run.  Either that or I'd have to take less risky strategies.  As there were a number of times I took out an enemy with only a few HP to spare.  Also, status effects can be quite troublesome.

The next update I'll more this casual play info down further in the thread to make way for strategy planning and test run info.  After that I'll condense this post again to form the strategy I'll use in the final run and the progress of that.

I wonder if anyone is reading this...  :P

----------------
Progress: Dec-28
----------------
I expect to have a recorder by end of January, probably closer to mid-January, so the recording will start the latest by then.

The holidays took their toll on my play time, as I attended to familial duties.  Anyway, I've just made some good progress on the casual play through.

I'm up to Chapter 5-1 with a play time of 10 hours 40 minutes.  There have been quite a few levels I could have done faster, and will take advantage of in the speed run.

I've been having trouble the past couple of scenarios because my heavies are falling behind in levels, since they have trouble reaching the enemies, thus they are the last ones to yet get upgrades.  My bowman and swordsman had the same trouble, but have been able to catch up at the end of 5-1.

Getting the second class transfer and keeping up with equipment really is essential to having a quick time since without them, the fights last longer.  I seem to have an over abundance of gold at the moment as well, so in the speed run, I'll do my best to purchase combat items as necessary.

Inventory management will play a vital role in getting a good time.  Spells are powerful, but they become costly when considering time.  I'll have to run some tests to see what the animation times are and how that plays against how powerful the spell is.

I'll finish up the casual playthrough before I post next.  My next post will have the final time for that game, which shouldn't be much more than 15 hours I'm guessing.  The purpose being to get myself familiar with the game again, and get a high time estimate, half of which should be a good speed run estimate.

I'll discuss some strategy as well for the different levels and development paths of each character.  Then it's on to the slow run where I'll go through and collect as many items as possible and test out different strategies.

----------------
Progress: Dec-20
----------------
I don't have a recorder yet, but getting one should be imminent.  So, in the spirit of that, I've started playing through the game casually since it's been a few years since I've picked it up.  The first thing I've noticed are all the ways I can save time by not playing how I normally play.  After the intro scene and first fight I saved at 11 minutes.  I then did a trial speed run of the same segment and got a time of 4 minutes (3 minutes should totally be possible with perfect execution), so cutting my end play time of the casual play through in half should be a good estimate of overall time.

At the end of Chapter 2, stage 1 of casual play I'm at 2 hours 10 minutes.  One of the hardest parts of the run will probably be balancing the purchase of equipment.  One of the highlights was an excellent, and close, battle against the sand ant where he fell in 2 rounds, so that will most likely be close to the strategy I use there, but it requires I collect the fire gem in the golem level, which is easy enough to do.

I'm planning to do a slow run after this to test inventory (item and equipment) management.  I'll collect everything and execute my battle plans, but I'll attempt to use as little of the items and equipment I get, and test to see what is quicker against how long it takes to get the items...  This will probably be the slowest part.  After that I should have a good plan for the speedrun.  Definitely going to be segmented at first.  Depending on how small I can make the run, I will also attempt a single segment after that so long as I can find the time.

----------------
Logistic Info
----------------
Saves are shown to the minute,  but seconds are also recorded.  This was tested by saving, loading, waiting 35 seconds, then repeating across 3 save files.  This'll make timing a lot easier.

----------------
Old Post
----------------
So far, I've picked three games to try and speedrun based on how easy it would be for me to complete the run.  Here's one that would take a little more planning and luck to get through fairly quickly.

Vandal Hearts is a turn based strategy game, much like Ogre Tactics and Final Fantasy Tactics.  It's for the PS1, and has a few missions where you can choose speed over progression, so it might be interesting to watch.  If there's any interest, then I'll post more on planning the run.

I'm thinking a segmented run depending on how things look, but might be persuaded to make it SS.  Recording wouldn't start until next year, but I really want to get something planned and practice soon, so I'll have something to record and post.

I know of one trick where you can rack up some easy levels, but I'll probably skip that because it takes a while to do.  Also, I won't be getting the Vandalier (sp?).  I'll leave that for the 100% run.  This is what I'm thinking so far.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2008-03-10 06:22:11 am

2008-01-13 05:33:01 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

I'm in the middle of test run at the moment. I have a DVD recorder, but when the screen isn't moving the color red seems to shake a little. I think I may need to invest in some s-video cables.

I also lost my job, that is to say I will lose my job soon, so I'm currently in job search mode and don't have a lot of free time to put into this. I'll update once I'm done with my test run.

I'm still in job search mode, taking longer than I thought originally. It might be a move across the country. In any case, I probably won't get back to this until at least May, but hopefully sooner.

My DVD drive can't seem to read the format from my DVD recorder, which is really... odd. The PS2 can read it fine... In any case, I still need S-video cables I believe to reduce the red flickering. I'll update this once I get either one working, but I believe both are blockers at this point.

ZenicReverie

2009-02-28 05:58:05 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

It sure has been a while, but I've got good news. I'm back and ready to do this. I have a new computer with DVD drive that is able to read the discs I'm recording on. Strangely the red flickering is gone, but some of the camera shifts cause the screen to look pixelated. I'll buy some S-video cables tomorrow now that I know I can at least record and send videos.

I've contacted mike to find out if the video quality is acceptable. I still need to work on the timing, as my last attempt was nearly 9 hours. I've also been away from the site for a while, so I'm sure some things have changed. Let me know if you're still looking forward to this.

getter77

2009-02-28 08:08:33 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Best wishes at your renewed attempts to smack this game down. 8)

ZenicReverie

2009-03-03 10:07:10 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

So, I've passed the video quality test for SDA. Check out the post for an example of how level 1 will look. I'm going to start the run this week, and I'll update with the completion of each chapter.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,9658.0.html

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2009-04-03 07:56:06 pm

2009-03-15 01:12:41 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

I've nearly finished chapter 1. On the last segment, the Ant battle, I questioned if I should combine it with the previous one because it's only about 5 minutes, but I decided to focus on optimizing for time sake since I have a feeling I'm going to be on the high end of 7 hours. However, the next two battles are back to back without a point to easily save at. I'm avoiding the in-battle saves because it generally breaks up the flow, and segmenting on a map seems unnecessary at this point.

I know of three other places where there are two battles back to back, so this won't be the last time I'll need to do this. The most difficult probably being the jail. If anyone's actually playing along, I'm at 00:36 after the Ant battle and equiping Grog. I've tested out a couple strategies for the next two maps, ship and village, and I'm ready to start recording that soon. It should be just about 1:00 or less at the next save.

I'll probably update again after I've finished with the jail unless someone asks for something sooner.

Edit: Not a full update, so I don't want to bump. I just wanted to voice that I hate the amount of luck in this game. In the segment I'm recording now I need to have nearly zero blocks on both sides and not be poisoned. Poisoning adds about 15 - 20 seconds. The first time I got such a run I almost stopped right there and moved on, but after trying a slightly different strategy I cut the time by nearly 40 seconds. I know if I keep trying I can cut another 10 - 15 seconds, as the last one had a number of 'miss clicks' or brain farts. Nearing about 300 attempts at this segment so far though, it's very taxing. I'll keep working at it.

By the way, this segment is the one after the ship+village one, which means I may as well update at the end of this chapter as I haven't gotten very far. I quoted 1:00 save time and ended up with 0:54 and the next one will end at 1:07 most likely. After this segment I'm going to take some time to go through the rest of the game, as I don't know if it's faster to get Swordsmen or Armors. I can't recall any place I needed Swordsmen over Armors, but Armors are slower to move and take more damage from magic. It'll also give me a better estimate for the end time, which I'll update once I'm done testing.

Edit #2: Of course I post this and then only 15 attempts later I get a good segment. Only 1 mistake, which costs 1 - 2 seconds, and one case of bad luck that costs 7 - 8 seconds (now you get why luck manipulating is so necessary in this game, it's the greatest time sink.). I can live with this though as it happens at the very end of the segment and doesn't look too bad compared to the amount of time it would take to get this perfect. So, I'm finally moving on from this dreadful segment, which probably won't be the last of its kind.

On a side note, probably the greatest time saving device is to be able to skip through text very quickly. I'm doing this by rapidly pressing x then o. x skips the dialogue to the end and o advances to the next bit. o skips slower, and there seems to be a throttle on one button as just pressing x isn't as fast. If I knew how the RNG worked, then it would be a lot easier to get perfect segments, as I wouldn't have to worry about segments ending due to bad luck. As it stands, I'm at a loss since it truly seems random. Probably reseeded on loading with the current time or something.

Edit #3: I just went through another test run and got a time of 9:40 at the end, which is really good considering that's a 50 minute improvement on my last play through, and this attempt was riddled with interruptions (family stuff) where I let the timer run and didn't feel like restarting plus it has no optimization. So, I'm going to try again and make Clint a Swordsman instead of an armor and see how that goes. I'm convinced that Dolan should be an armor now after playing through again, but I'm not sure if Clint would be better as a swordsman. During the last few levels I hardly touched the armor guys, but an extra swordsman might be good.

Last Edit: Latest test run is just about 8:55. So the final run will definitely be less than 9 hours, and I think 8 hours is a good goal to shoot for. Once I get past the second chapter the enemies seem to block a lot less, or maybe it's because I'm just using magic more often, so attempts will be less annoying. I'm also definitely using Clint as a swordsman. During these test runs I'm not worrying a lot about excessively moving my units, but during the run I'm only going to be moving those units I need to move and use later. Something strange happened in this test run, I didn't get the wyrmfang from the fire dragon. I'll have to look out for that and make sure I get it; I can't find any reason for it online. Next post will include a chapter update.

I've nearly finished chapter 1.  On the last segment, the Ant battle, I questioned if I should combine it with the previous one because it's only about 5 minutes, but I decided to focus on optimizing for time sake since I have a feeling I'm going to be on the high end of 7 hours.  However, the next two battles are back to back without a point to easily save at.  I'm avoiding the in-battle saves because it generally breaks up the flow, and segmenting on a map seems unnecessary at this point.

I know of three other places where there are two battles back to back, so this won't be the last time I'll need to do this.  The most difficult probably being the jail.  If anyone's actually playing along, I'm at 00:36 after the Ant battle and equiping Grog.  I've tested out a couple strategies for the next two maps, ship and village, and I'm ready to start recording that soon.  It should be just about 1:00 or less at the next save.

I'll probably update again after I've finished with the jail unless someone asks for something sooner.

Edit: Not a full update, so I don't want to bump.  I just wanted to voice that I hate the amount of luck in this game.  In the segment I'm recording now I need to have nearly zero blocks on both sides and not be poisoned.  Poisoning adds about 15 - 20 seconds.  The first time I got such a run I almost stopped right there and moved on, but after trying a slightly different strategy I cut the time by nearly 40 seconds.  I know if I keep trying I can cut another 10 - 15 seconds, as the last one had a number of 'miss clicks' or brain farts.  Nearing about 300 attempts at this segment so far though, it's very taxing.  I'll keep working at it.

By the way, this segment is the one after the ship+village one, which means I may as well update at the end of this chapter as I haven't gotten very far.  I quoted 1:00 save time and ended up with 0:54 and the next one will end at 1:07 most likely.  After this segment I'm going to take some time to go through the rest of the game, as I don't know if it's faster to get Swordsmen or Armors.  I can't recall any place I needed Swordsmen over Armors, but Armors are slower to move and take more damage from magic.  It'll also give me a better estimate for the end time, which I'll update once I'm done testing.

Edit #2: Of course I post this and then only 15 attempts later I get a good segment.  Only 1 mistake, which costs 1 - 2 seconds, and one case of bad luck that costs 7 - 8 seconds (now you get why luck manipulating is so necessary in this game, it's the greatest time sink.).  I can live with this though as it happens at the very end of the segment and doesn't look too bad compared to the amount of time it would take to get this perfect.  So, I'm finally moving on from this dreadful segment, which probably won't be the last of its kind.

On a side note, probably the greatest time saving device is to be able to skip through text very quickly.  I'm doing this by rapidly pressing x then o.  x skips the dialogue to the end and o advances to the next bit.  o skips slower, and there seems to be a throttle on one button as just pressing x isn't as fast.  If I knew how the RNG worked, then it would be a lot easier to get perfect segments, as I wouldn't have to worry about segments ending due to bad luck.  As it stands, I'm at a loss since it truly seems random.  Probably reseeded on loading with the current time or something.

Edit #3: I just went through another test run and got a time of 9:40 at the end, which is really good considering that's a 50 minute improvement on my last play through, and this attempt was riddled with interruptions (family stuff) where I let the timer run and didn't feel like restarting plus it has no optimization.  So, I'm going to try again and make Clint a Swordsman instead of an armor and see how that goes.  I'm convinced that Dolan should be an armor now after playing through again, but I'm not sure if Clint would be better as a swordsman.  During the last few levels I hardly touched the armor guys, but an extra swordsman might be good.

Last Edit: Latest test run is just about 8:55.  So the final run will definitely be less than 9 hours, and I think 8 hours is a good goal to shoot for.  Once I get past the second chapter the enemies seem to block a lot less, or maybe it's because I'm just using magic more often, so attempts will be less annoying.  I'm also definitely using Clint as a swordsman.  During these test runs I'm not worrying a lot about excessively moving my units, but during the run I'm only going to be moving those units I need to move and use later.  Something strange happened in this test run, I didn't get the wyrmfang from the fire dragon.  I'll have to look out for that and make sure I get it; I can't find any reason for it online.  Next post will include a chapter update.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2010-02-15 05:26:00 pm

2009-05-03 05:01:05 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Well, it's just about time for an update. Yes, I'm still doing the run. No, I haven't reached the end of the chapter yet, but I have video for those interested.

MQ: ~~http: //files.filefront.com/13704175~~ (dead link)
HQ: ~~http: //files.filefront.com/13704515~~ (dead link)

This is the castle level in chapter 2. I'm thinking about letting Amon stay behind as well, since all he does is collect the treasure and take out an enemy, which can be done by others. This is definitely not a final version as I kind of stumble at some of the later decisions. It's actually the first time I've decided to leave both armors behind. That elevator is just too slow, so anyone I can leave behind is good. Maybe Huxley too, but that would be a little close...

This is about 7 minutes faster than my last test run, so it's definitely faster than anything I've done before. The level is just so difficult because if one of those madwarriors block, then it's a restart. Also, on a side note for the whole run, I have 20+ segments left, if I can average a saving of 3 minutes it'll be less than 8, if I can average a saving of 6 minutes it'll be less than 7. I'm thinking 7:30 is a good goal, but sub-7 would be nice.

People's thoughts?

Edit:
Here's a finished segment of a coupe of stages ago. Sara casts mystic shield so Dolan will survive, plus she needs the exp, but Amon needs to use the herb for the level, so I don't want to heal. There's a couple of mistakes, about 2 - 3 seconds, and some bad luck, but after 400 attempts, this was the best luck I could get.

MQ: ~~http: //files.filefront.com/13706095~~ (dead link)
HQ: ~~http: //files.filefront.com/13706179~~ (dead link)

Well, it's just about time for an update.  Yes, I'm still doing the run.  No, I haven't reached the end of the chapter yet, but I have video for those interested.

MQ: [s]http: //files.filefront.com/13704175[/s] (dead link)
HQ: [s]http: //files.filefront.com/13704515[/s] (dead link)

This is the castle level in chapter 2.  I'm thinking about letting Amon stay behind as well, since all he does is collect the treasure and take out an enemy, which can be done by others.  This is definitely not a final version as I kind of stumble at some of the later decisions.  It's actually the first time I've decided to leave both armors behind.  That elevator is just too slow, so anyone I can leave behind is good.  Maybe Huxley too, but that would be a little close...

This is about 7 minutes faster than my last test run, so it's definitely faster than anything I've done before.  The level is just so difficult because if one of those madwarriors block, then it's a restart.  Also, on a side note for the whole run, I have 20+ segments left, if I can average a saving of 3 minutes it'll be less than 8, if I can average a saving of 6 minutes it'll be less than 7.  I'm thinking 7:30 is a good goal, but sub-7 would be nice.

People's thoughts?

Edit: 
Here's a finished segment of a coupe of stages ago.  Sara casts mystic shield so Dolan will survive, plus she needs the exp, but Amon needs to use the herb for the level, so I don't want to heal.  There's a couple of mistakes, about 2 - 3 seconds, and some bad luck, but after 400 attempts, this was the best luck I could get.

MQ: [s]http: //files.filefront.com/13706095[/s] (dead link)
HQ: [s]http: //files.filefront.com/13706179[/s] (dead link)

Chromium

2009-05-04 11:26:07 am

It's been 24 hours I need updates man!!! 7:30 would be impressive, sub 7 would make you a god among men. I think after 400 attempts on that segment you definitely have a keeper, it is quite good. Given the situation and the luck, it isn't realistic to do much better.

mikwuyma

2009-05-04 12:48:38 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

It really sucks that after your segment went so well, the last mad soldier had to block your last hit, costing you about 10 seconds. The extra time looks kind of ugly, but I understand if you don't feel redoing the segment, since the battle is about 10 minutes long. I'd say keep it if you're satisfied with it.

BTW, does the mid-battle erase itself after you load it? I honestly can't remember (I should really go through this game again to refresh my memory).

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2009-08-11 12:35:20 am

2009-05-04 02:48:58 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

I should test it, and maybe break up some of the longer stages with it, but I think it's more of a RAM save that goes away after you reset. So, I'd need to test it, and if that's the case, I'd need to basically get a good segment from the save before I turned off the system.

Edit: nope, I'm wrong, it works just like a normal save, except there's only one slot, so if I need to segment in a level, it's really only going to help once for breaking up the stage. I have to be sure I want to keep the first part of the level though.

Edit #2: I think this castle level could really benefit from being broken up, the question is where should I break it? Maybe at around turn 3 or 4, which is after most of the luck blocking from madsoldiers, but before the selective movement as I leave my guys behind. That way I can optimize the movement and try some riskier strategies. I think I have the first three turns pretty much down. I'll see if I can add the fourth and make a break there.

Edit #3: what're your thoughts (you the reader of this post) on using the in-game save? I've been avoiding it because of the above reasons (one slot makes it hard to segment) plus I thought it would create too many segments. I think I was also avoiding it because saving and loading to that slot takes about 3 times as long as normal.

Edit #4: Ok, in-battle save messes with the AI in some way if I save after moving. Usually the soldiers gang up on Kira on the second turn, but instead they're attacking and killing off Sara. So, if I do use it, I have to make sure the AI doesn't get messed up and do something out of the ordinary.

Edit #5: I have a strategy for stage 2-5, just need to get better at execution and decide which guys will take out Magnus. stage 2-6 and 3-1 will be one segment since they are so short. I may use the in-battle save again to separate 3-2 and 3-3. 3-4 and 3-5 can be their own segments, and then I'll use the in-battle save again to separate 3-6 and 3-7 since there is no break to the map between them. After that, the last time I should need to use it is between 4-5 and 5-1 since again, there's no map break between battles.

I'll make a new post once I've completed chapter 3. Time before the Magnus battle is 1:31. I did a semi-quick test up to Zohar and saved at 2 hours, so to complete the first 1/3 of the game will be sub 2 hours. (that's a little over 20 minutes saved over the test run)

Edit #6: As expected, the stages are getting easier, and everything up to the Jail break seems like it should go fairly quickly. After I wrap that up, I'll make a brand new post because this one is getting cluttered and I think I need to remind people that this is still being run.

I should test it, and maybe break up some of the longer stages with it, but I think it's more of a RAM save that goes away after you reset.  So, I'd need to test it, and if that's the case, I'd need to basically get a good segment from the save before I turned off the system.

Edit: nope, I'm wrong, it works just like a normal save, except there's only one slot, so if I need to segment in a level, it's really only going to help once for breaking up the stage.  I have to be sure I want to keep the first part of the level though.

Edit #2: I think this castle level could really benefit from being broken up, the question is where should I break it?  Maybe at around turn 3 or 4, which is after most of the luck blocking from madsoldiers, but before the selective movement as I leave my guys behind.  That way I can optimize the movement and try some riskier strategies.  I think I have the first three turns pretty much down.  I'll see if I can add the fourth and make a break there.

Edit #3: what're your thoughts (you the reader of this post) on using the in-game save?  I've been avoiding it because of the above reasons (one slot makes it hard to segment) plus I thought it would create too many segments.  I think I was also avoiding it because saving and loading to that slot takes about 3 times as long as normal.

Edit #4: Ok, in-battle save messes with the AI in some way if I save after moving.  Usually the soldiers gang up on Kira on the second turn, but instead they're attacking and killing off Sara.  So, if I do use it, I have to make sure the AI doesn't get messed up and do something out of the ordinary.

Edit #5: I have a strategy for stage 2-5, just need to get better at execution and decide which guys will take out Magnus.  stage 2-6 and 3-1 will be one segment since they are so short.  I may use the in-battle save again to separate 3-2 and 3-3.  3-4 and 3-5 can be their own segments, and then I'll use the in-battle save again to separate 3-6 and 3-7 since there is no break to the map between them.  After that, the last time I should need to use it is between 4-5 and 5-1 since again, there's no map break between battles.

I'll make a new post once I've completed chapter 3.  Time before the Magnus battle is 1:31.  I did a semi-quick test up to Zohar and saved at 2 hours, so to complete the first 1/3 of the game will be sub 2 hours. (that's a little over 20 minutes saved over the test run)

Edit #6: As expected, the stages are getting easier, and everything up to the Jail break seems like it should go fairly quickly.  After I wrap that up, I'll make a brand new post because this one is getting cluttered and I think I need to remind people that this is still being run.

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2009-11-19 11:42:00 am

2009-08-26 03:46:09 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Alright, nearly 5 months later I've gotten to 4-1. I'll try to get it a little better as I flubbed some input which costs 2 - 3 seconds, but I got tired of waiting to update. Time will be 2:43 or possibly 2:42 at that point, which is 50 minutes faster than the test run. The next chapter will seem a little slow, as I'm going to want to get everyone up to level 20 as soon as possible because the class change gives each person 1 - 2 extra movement, and the archers get one more square of range.

I may split up the next segment, as I need to promote Darius, exchange items from my depot, sell some items, buy all new equipment for everyone, and buy some mage gems to level up my guys. Then comes the map where I need to kill everyone off. That's not difficult actually, but I'd hate to go through all the item stuff and then block on attack. The forest level afterwards should be fairly easy, although I'll need to spend some time testing out some strategies, as I never really hammered that level out. I may promote once I get to the town, or possibly after the warehouse level, but I'll need to pick up some more mage gems most likely to get me through the train level. Nothing too difficult, but I need to make sure I need each gem and learn when to use them effectively. Then it's just a matter of saving Kira, the only thing to keep in mind for this is to give Amon an aura gem that I find in the forest.

I'll use the in-battle save for hopefully the last time at the beginning of 5-1. I'll make another post once I start making attempts at 5-1. I see that some people are checking up on the thread even if there aren't any posts, hope this update helps. Oh, I've been trying to keep up to date on the first post with some summary information and turn counts. Let me know if you guys want more info. I'm thinking I'll probably finish the run before the end of the year.

Edit: This is slow going at the moment because I just started working. I'm at 4-2 now though, and I've got a good idea for strategy, which I just need to get good at. There are some blocks that would suck, but mostly those happen in the first couple of turns. I'd like Ash and Amon to be promoted by the train stage, as it makes it easier, but the next stage is when it's really necessary for everyone except the armors and clint to be at 20. Some of these stages are getting long though, 4-2 is probably going to take 18 minutes, although I haven't started recording yet, so that's just an estimate. I still hope to be able to finish this run up by the end of the year.

Edit #2: I'm going to break up 4-2 with the in-battle save. The blocking is more random than I thought, and I haven't gotten a single attempt in 2 hours past the first turn because someone blocked an attack. If there was an option to turn off blocking for everyone, I'd definitely take it. So, I think I'll save at the beginning of turn 3. Turn 2 isn't too bad, only like 1 or 2 possible blocks instead of 9 or 10 in turn 1. This should break up the segment in half of what it was time-wise. I really wanted to avoid doing stuff like this, but I think I'll just save my sanity (and time) instead.

Edit #3: So, 12 minutes of savings over the test run is nice. This next segment will be a pain because there's a lot of dialogue before it. It's only like 3 or 4 turns though, so I'll suffer through it as long as I can make the luck work out. Need to figure out the strategy for the warehouse, and the next two segments should be fairly straight forward since the train is mainly magic attacks, and while saving kira, I don't really care about killing off the enemies. At the end of the warehouse, my mages should be 20 or 21, and I'm hoping at least Amon will be 20, but that's probably a long shot.

Edit #4: Alright, strategy down for 4-3, just need a good segment. I'm already saving 12+ minutes over the test run due to the different strategy and using 1 less turn apparently. Amon is up to 20, and the mages are as well, but sadly Ash and the archers didn't quite make it. When they do, I can get the train level down to 5 turns, but now it's going to take 8 just because of how long that level is. The extra range of the archers and movement would have been nice, but it only slows down this one level. I think the mage gems I bought for the armors may have been wasted purchases. Maybe I can find some use for them though... much like the moodring Ash is holding on to. I think I'm able to get everyone except clint and the armors up to level 20 by the end of the train stage.

Edit #5: I guess it had to happen some time. I saved over my load file tonight. Luckily I've been keeping a backup of the save, but for some reason I didn't backup the last segment. So instead of working on getting 4-3 perfect, I ended up having to redo the last half of 4-2. I may have shaved off a second though, it's hard to tell by just going on the dvd clock. I'll probably have time over the weekend. I've found that I'm slightly luck dependent on Sara's level up being good. If her defence is too low, then she takes too much damage and is targetted for an attack that normally goes to someone else. Time saved on 4-3 will be just about 13 minutes.

Edit #6: I'm done with 4-3, moving on to 4-4 tomorrow. I got some DVD+RWs now, so I don't feel so bad about randomly burning things to disc. I've done just that and posted two segments (4-1 and 4-3) It's late, I'm happy about the segment, and I've spent 1.6 hours getting this from my DVD to youtube.

[flash=425,340]

Edit #7: Mike and Aftermath suggested more samples, so I made some more. 4-4 is nearly done strategy wise. Sadly, I can't find a way to get Diego to 20. I don't think it's crucial or anything, but I had hoped to not leave him behind next stage, as he's rather useful as a sniper for taking out the air guys. I'm not sure what experience I missed with him, but it must have been something different. I won't worry about it too much though. Mages, Airman, and Ash were the main ones to get to 20 by 4-5, and that'll be done. Probably not going to finish this up until the weekend though. I'm hoping 4-5 will go smoothly.

[flash=425,340]

Edit #8: I've been struggling to get 4-4 in its own segment, but I think I'm going to break it up because I'm going to manipulate my first intentional block. It'll probably take some time, but it's definitely for the best. Once I have that part of the stage done everything else should pretty much fall into place. This segment has been pushing the run completion date too far back, but during the holidays I should have more time to make attempts, so maybe it'll even out in the end.

Edit #9: Ugh, third page now, but I'm still getting views, so people are definitely lurking. I've got the first half segment (more like 1/5) for 4-4. That one block took at least 300 attempts to get one time, I'm guessing closer to 400 total as it happened once before but it wasn't a good segment. The rest should be pretty straight forward, as I don't need any other blocking, and there are only two level up points where I depend on high random stats. So, hopefully I'll be starting on 4-5 by this weekend.

Alright, nearly 5 months later I've gotten to 4-1. I'll try to get it a little better as I flubbed some input which costs 2 - 3 seconds, but I got tired of waiting to update. Time will be 2:43 or possibly 2:42 at that point, which is 50 minutes faster than the test run. The next chapter will seem a little slow, as I'm going to want to get everyone up to level 20 as soon as possible because the class change gives each person 1 - 2 extra movement, and the archers get one more square of range.

I may split up the next segment, as I need to promote Darius, exchange items from my depot, sell some items, buy all new equipment for everyone, and buy some mage gems to level up my guys.  Then comes the map where I need to kill everyone off. That's not difficult actually, but I'd hate to go through all the item stuff and then block on attack. The forest level afterwards should be fairly easy, although I'll need to spend some time testing out some strategies, as I never really hammered that level out. I may promote once I get to the town, or possibly after the warehouse level, but I'll need to pick up some more mage gems most likely to get me through the train level. Nothing too difficult, but I need to make sure I need each gem and learn when to use them effectively. Then it's just a matter of saving Kira, the only thing to keep in mind for this is to give Amon an aura gem that I find in the forest.

I'll use the in-battle save for hopefully the last time at the beginning of 5-1.  I'll make another post once I start making attempts at 5-1.  I see that some people are checking up on the thread even if there aren't any posts, hope this update helps. Oh, I've been trying to keep up to date on the first post with some summary information and turn counts.  Let me know if you guys want more info.  I'm thinking I'll probably finish the run before the end of the year.

Edit: This is slow going at the moment because I just started working. I'm at 4-2 now though, and I've got a good idea for strategy, which I just need to get good at. There are some blocks that would suck, but mostly those happen in the first couple of turns. I'd like Ash and Amon to be promoted by the train stage, as it makes it easier, but the next stage is when it's really necessary for everyone except the armors and clint to be at 20. Some of these stages are getting long though, 4-2 is probably going to take 18 minutes, although I haven't started recording yet, so that's just an estimate. I still hope to be able to finish this run up by the end of the year.

Edit #2: I'm going to break up 4-2 with the in-battle save. The blocking is more random than I thought, and I haven't gotten a single attempt in 2 hours past the first turn because someone blocked an attack. If there was an option to turn off blocking for everyone, I'd definitely take it. So, I think I'll save at the beginning of turn 3. Turn 2 isn't too bad, only like 1 or 2 possible blocks instead of 9 or 10 in turn 1. This should break up the segment in half of what it was time-wise. I really wanted to avoid doing stuff like this, but I think I'll just save my sanity (and time) instead.

Edit #3: So, 12 minutes of savings over the test run is nice. This next segment will be a pain because there's a lot of dialogue before it. It's only like 3 or 4 turns though, so I'll suffer through it as long as I can make the luck work out. Need to figure out the strategy for the warehouse, and the next two segments should be fairly straight forward since the train is mainly magic attacks, and while saving kira, I don't really care about killing off the enemies. At the end of the warehouse, my mages should be 20 or 21, and I'm hoping at least Amon will be 20, but that's probably a long shot.

Edit #4: Alright, strategy down for 4-3, just need a good segment. I'm already saving 12+ minutes over the test run due to the different strategy and using 1 less turn apparently. Amon is up to 20, and the mages are as well, but sadly Ash and the archers didn't quite make it. When they do, I can get the train level down to 5 turns, but now it's going to take 8 just because of how long that level is. The extra range of the archers and movement would have been nice, but it only slows down this one level. I think the mage gems I bought for the armors may have been wasted purchases. Maybe I can find some use for them though... much like the moodring Ash is holding on to. I think I'm able to get everyone except clint and the armors up to level 20 by the end of the train stage.

Edit #5: I guess it had to happen some time. I saved over my load file tonight. Luckily I've been keeping a backup of the save, but for some reason I didn't backup the last segment. So instead of working on getting 4-3 perfect, I ended up having to redo the last half of 4-2. I may have shaved off a second though, it's hard to tell by just going on the dvd clock. I'll probably have time over the weekend.  I've found that I'm slightly luck dependent on Sara's level up being good. If her defence is too low, then she takes too much damage and is targetted for an attack that normally goes to someone else. Time saved on 4-3 will be just about 13 minutes.

Edit #6: I'm done with 4-3, moving on to 4-4 tomorrow. I got some DVD+RWs now, so I don't feel so bad about randomly burning things to disc. I've done just that and posted two segments (4-1 and 4-3) It's late, I'm happy about the segment, and I've spent 1.6 hours getting this from my DVD to youtube.
[spoiler="Stage 4-1"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/XtUmHSP8lf8&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 4-3"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/Hk20yPWZ-DQ&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]

Edit #7: Mike and Aftermath suggested more samples, so I made some more. 4-4 is nearly done strategy wise. Sadly, I can't find a way to get Diego to 20. I don't think it's crucial or anything, but I had hoped to not leave him behind next stage, as he's rather useful as a sniper for taking out the air guys. I'm not sure what experience I missed with him, but it must have been something different. I won't worry about it too much though. Mages, Airman, and Ash were the main ones to get to 20 by 4-5, and that'll be done. Probably not going to finish this up until the weekend though. I'm hoping 4-5 will go smoothly.
[spoiler="Stage 1-1"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/z_K8XPVH7mI&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 1-6"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/CupseOSkrtE&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]
[spoiler="Stage 3-3"][flash=425,340]http://www.youtube.com/v/zfWMAbTptao&hl=en&fs=1[/flash][/spoiler]

Edit #8: I've been struggling to get 4-4 in its own segment, but I think I'm going to break it up because I'm going to manipulate my first intentional block. It'll probably take some time, but it's definitely for the best. Once I have that part of the stage done everything else should pretty much fall into place. This segment has been pushing the run completion date too far back, but during the holidays I should have more time to make attempts, so maybe it'll even out in the end.

Edit #9: Ugh, third page now, but I'm still getting views, so people are definitely lurking. I've got the first half segment (more like 1/5) for 4-4. That one block took at least 300 attempts to get one time, I'm guessing closer to 400 total as it happened once before but it wasn't a good segment. The rest should be pretty straight forward, as I don't need any other blocking, and there are only two level up points where I depend on high random stats. So, hopefully I'll be starting on 4-5 by this weekend.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2009-12-04 11:48:08 am

2009-12-04 11:22:44 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

You know, if you're making progress, you are allowed to double post.

I forgot I even asked for some samples and didn't realize you posted more runs. Sad

EDIT: Okay, I do remember asking now because I'm now reminded of that really weird AI bug in 1-6. Anyone who has played the game should watch that stage, it's pretty funny.

4-1 was really well done, I thought it would have been a lot harder than that. My only question is why did you make eleni and zohar attack? Wouldn't it be faster just to let the enemies kill them off?

ZenicReverie

Edit history:

ZenicReverie: 2009-12-17 09:25:23 am

2009-12-05 10:35:47 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Dallas is the only enemy close enough to kill them in one hit. The other two armors leave them alive. And since they move first it would have wasted time letting them attack. Edited for more info: Dallas is behind those to armors, so there isn't any way I've found to position myself to only be hit by Dallas. Kurtz uses magic, so that's out. There are two crimson fighters that take out the archers, which I actually don't remember testing now, so moving the archers to the armors might be a better plan if I can position the mages the same way I do the archers.

Edit: By the way, splitting up 4-4 into two segments has not helped really with the whole stage. Sure I have one less manipulation to worry about since that saves me 15 seconds, but honestly I think it's added one back now because the AI has started acting differently. It'll target Amon instead of Huxley with the final archer, which puts the archer in an unfavorable position. This is avoided by Amon getting enough of a Def and HP increase when he levels up, or Amon blocks an attack from a swordsman, or I move Amon away. The third option means less exp for Sara, which she may need because I need her to be 21 soon. Anyway, just plugging away at about 30 - 40 attempts a day. This one segment has really put me behind my end of year schedule, so hopefully there aren't too many more like this one.

Dallas is the only enemy close enough to kill them in one hit. The other two armors leave them alive. And since they move first it would have wasted time letting them attack. [u]Edited for more info[/u]: Dallas is behind those to armors, so there isn't any way I've found to position myself to only be hit by Dallas. Kurtz uses magic, so that's out. There are two crimson fighters that take out the archers, which I actually don't remember testing now, so moving the archers to the armors might be a better plan if I can position the mages the same way I do the archers.

Edit: By the way, splitting up 4-4 into two segments has not helped really with the whole stage. Sure I have one less manipulation to worry about since that saves me 15 seconds, but honestly I think it's added one back now because the AI has started acting differently. It'll target Amon instead of Huxley with the final archer, which puts the archer in an unfavorable position. This is avoided by Amon getting enough of a Def and HP increase when he levels up, or Amon blocks an attack from a swordsman, or I move Amon away. The third option means less exp for Sara, which she may need because I need her to be 21 soon.  Anyway, just plugging away at about 30 - 40 attempts a day. This one segment has really put me behind my end of year schedule, so hopefully there aren't too many more like this one.

ZenicReverie

2009-12-17 09:21:38 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Alright, finally got an acceptable 4-4 stage. Why does good luck always seem to go hand in hand with some messed up input? 2 - 3 seconds lost I'm guessing, but I'll take it.

I thought 4-4 would be pretty easy, but I ended up relying a lot of leveling up well. 4-5 shouldn't rely on any of that though, so hopefully it won't take as long, and will be a lot cleaner. I'm going to break it up at the beginning of 5-1, because doing two stages back to back was crazy enough to attempt once, and I probably shouldn't have done that with the ship and village levels. I don't think it works out very well this late in the game with as many people as I have to control/cycle through.

4-5 I should be able to hit 5 turns fairly easily. I'll post again once this is done, or edit with any issues I'm facing. I'm at 3:33:xx, so I'm well ahead of schedule. Once I get through chapter 5 I'll have a better estimate, but sub-7 appears to be within reach. In fact, at this point, if I add my old times (for the coming levels) to my current time, I get about 7:14. If I keep improving stage times like I have been in chapter 4 (cutting off 10 minutes or so per stage), then I'll probably be closer to the 6 hour mark, probably 6.5 or so.

Once I'm done with this run, it'll be a good baseline to test against to see if using the leveling exploit would actually be faster. I have my doubts, but there's always a chance that the hour invested in getting salamandar early will cut an hour and more out of chapters 3, 4, and the first half of 5. Mike, would the exploit be a different category? It's not a skip, but it definitely changes the strategy involved.

Alright, finally got an acceptable 4-4 stage. Why does good luck always seem to go hand in hand with some messed up input? 2 - 3 seconds lost I'm guessing, but I'll take it.

I thought 4-4 would be pretty easy, but I ended up relying a lot of leveling up well. 4-5 shouldn't rely on any of that though, so hopefully it won't take as long, and will be a lot cleaner. I'm going to break it up at the beginning of 5-1, because doing two stages back to back was crazy enough to attempt once, and I probably shouldn't have done that with the ship and village levels. I don't think it works out very well this late in the game with as many people as I have to control/cycle through.

4-5 I should be able to hit 5 turns fairly easily. I'll post again once this is done, or edit with any issues I'm facing. I'm at 3:33:xx, so I'm well ahead of schedule. Once I get through chapter 5 I'll have a better estimate, but sub-7 appears to be within reach. In fact, at this point, if I add my old times (for the coming levels) to my current time, I get about 7:14. If I keep improving stage times like I have been in chapter 4 (cutting off 10 minutes or so per stage), then I'll probably be closer to the 6 hour mark, probably 6.5 or so.

Once I'm done with this run, it'll be a good baseline to test against to see if using the leveling exploit would actually be faster. I have my doubts, but there's always a chance that the hour invested in getting salamandar early will cut an hour and more out of chapters 3, 4, and the first half of 5. Mike, would the exploit be a different category? It's not a skip, but it definitely changes the strategy involved.

mikwuyma

2009-12-17 09:39:49 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Leveling exploit: It probably wouldn't be classified as a separate category, unless if it saves a really huge amount of time. Anyway, wouldn't you just want to focus on leveling Eleni? It doesn't sound like the exploit would take too long if you just focused on her.

ZenicReverie

2009-12-17 10:48:08 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

The length comes from level-ups for Huxley or Sara since they have the best spell for that exploit (mystic shield). Then everyone would be using an item the one that leveled (that part only takes about 30 seconds for each character). They'd need to be level 28 or so (judging from a video I watched, it takes about 2 minutes to level up once * 16 levels is about 35 minutes [adjusted for level up animations]) to get Eleni up to level 25 I think. Also, it's best to get Sara up so Zohar can use an item on Sara during the first battle he has, although he still wouldn't have Salamander because he'd need to advance classes at a town, which is only possible after the second Zoot Gach fight, he'd still have increased attack power for that fight, which would make it faster. Leveling everyone else might be beneficial to have the extended movement that comes from advanced levels.

Given all this, I'm certain I'll do another run with the exploit (especially if it will obsolete my current run), but I'll finish out this run to get that baseline time I was talking about. The exploit would probably save a lot of headaches too because I wouldn't need to worry about leveling Huxley and Sara all the time, so the extra Mystic Shields can be cut. I won't be leveling as much on enemies because I'll be basically skipping 13 level-up animations for each character I exploit (and any enemies I kill will give like 1 exp), which will again cut down on time as a side effect.

How much is huge? I'm thinking (as a rough estimate) it has the potential to save an hour or more for the whole run.

The length comes from level-ups for Huxley or Sara since they have the best spell for that exploit (mystic shield). Then everyone would be using an item the one that leveled (that part only takes about 30 seconds for each character). They'd need to be level 28 or so (judging from a video I watched, it takes about 2 minutes to level up once * 16 levels is about 35 minutes [adjusted for level up animations]) to get Eleni up to level 25 I think. Also, it's best to get Sara up so Zohar can use an item on Sara during the first battle he has, although he still wouldn't have Salamander because he'd need to advance classes at a town, which is only possible after the second Zoot Gach fight, he'd still have increased attack power for that fight, which would make it faster. Leveling everyone else might be beneficial to have the extended movement that comes from advanced levels.

Given all this, I'm certain I'll do another run with the exploit (especially if it will obsolete my current run), but I'll finish out this run to get that baseline time I was talking about. The exploit would probably save a lot of headaches too because I wouldn't need to worry about leveling Huxley and Sara all the time, so the extra Mystic Shields can be cut. I won't be leveling as much on enemies because I'll be basically skipping 13 level-up animations for each character I exploit (and any enemies I kill will give like 1 exp), which will again cut down on time as a side effect.

How much is huge? I'm thinking (as a rough estimate) it has the potential to save an hour or more for the whole run.