Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

2007-09-14 11:58:27 pm

Direct Assault!

I'll probably use the Double-check against the Griffon (Dylan alone) since it's the easiest DA and he gives lots of experience, plus it should help getting a DA against Kraken.

I'm planning to get the 500 crystals from the following battles:

1-Collecting Great Eagle Heart in Serberg (30)
2-Collecting Thunderbreath Core (Blue Lightning) in Serdberg (60)
3-Collecting Poison Seed (Red Weakness) + getting Dylan silenced in Ancient Forest (90)
4-Griffon (120)
5-Kraken (150)
6-Collecting Firebreath Core (Red Fire) in Volcano (180)
7-Collecting Pyrotecnic Ore (Green Fire) in the Volcano (210)
8-Evolver 1 (240)
9-Evolver 2 (270)
10-Hydra (300)
11-Collecting Swordfish Snout (Red Slashing) in Dragonscrypt (330)
12-Collecting Damascus Ore (Green Resistance) in PVD (360)
13-Stalker 1 (390)
14-Stalker 2 (420)
15-Dragon Zombie (450)

Then I'll fight a random battle in the PVD and use the Tome of Alchemy I'll pick up there, which will hopefully result in 50 crystals.

I'm still in Kythena since I'm not sure if those are the best fights yet. I'm getting Solitary Struggle for Zunde (and maybe Alicia) to make up for the lack of critical skills and Sealstones against Ull and Heimdall. I'll learn Magician Slayer in the PVD so there's no need to get the Red Slashing rune before Dragonscrypt.

Since I'm fighting the Iron Golem for the Damascus Ore I'll try to get an Adamantine (x1.5 damage when HP is full) too, and a Dragon Skull (double critical damage) from the Dragon Zombie.

I'll probably use the Double-check against the Griffon (Dylan alone) since it's the easiest DA and he gives lots of experience, plus it should help getting a DA against Kraken.

I'm planning to get the 500 crystals from the following battles:

1-Collecting Great Eagle Heart in Serberg (30)
2-Collecting Thunderbreath Core (Blue Lightning) in Serdberg (60)
3-Collecting Poison Seed (Red Weakness) + getting Dylan silenced in Ancient Forest (90)
4-Griffon (120)
5-Kraken (150)
6-Collecting Firebreath Core (Red Fire) in Volcano (180)
7-Collecting Pyrotecnic Ore (Green Fire) in the Volcano (210)
8-Evolver 1 (240)
9-Evolver 2 (270)
10-Hydra (300)
11-Collecting Swordfish Snout (Red Slashing) in Dragonscrypt (330)
12-Collecting Damascus Ore (Green Resistance) in PVD (360)
13-Stalker 1 (390)
14-Stalker 2 (420)
15-Dragon Zombie (450)

Then I'll fight a random battle in the PVD and use the Tome of Alchemy I'll pick up there, which will hopefully result in 50 crystals.

I'm still in Kythena since I'm not sure if those are the best fights yet. I'm getting Solitary Struggle for Zunde (and maybe Alicia) to make up for the lack of critical skills and Sealstones against Ull and Heimdall. I'll learn Magician Slayer in the PVD so there's no need to get the Red Slashing rune before Dragonscrypt.

Since I'm fighting the Iron Golem for the Damascus Ore I'll try to get an Adamantine (x1.5 damage when HP is full) too, and a Dragon Skull (double critical damage) from the Dragon Zombie.

rockdeworld

2007-09-16 08:30:01 pm

Well ftr, you guys have my support. Tri-Ace_Fanboy knows the game better than anyone I know of (which I know from gamefaqs message boards), and if anyone can beat the run that's already posted you guys can. FYI, I didn't even try to read through all twelve pages, but from the last 2-3 posts it sounds like you're close to it, and of course Tri-Ace_Fanboy you'd want to work on the crystal-throwing (from what I saw on your video you're 90% of the way there). I suppose you already know that jumping and throwing crystals negates the stop-time, and doing that at the beginning of every map can move you really fast, since the 3 crystals don't take long to recharge.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-09-17 06:08:28 pm

2007-09-17 06:08:12 pm

Never give up!

rockdeworld: I actually have a run that beats the current one on the site by over 20 minutes (it should be up sometime soon, I hope), and I believe what tri-Ace Fanboy is trying to beat is my time (roughly 2:21, for the record), not Alkaiser's.

tri-Ace Fanboy:

I just had a thought that might help later.

Alkaiser (and later, I) released remaining einherjar before the Anarchic Entity fight. What about releasing most of them right after the normal Lezard Valeth fight (or in the case of Light/Heavy Warriors except for Zunde, right when Lenneth joins!) and giving the Rose Gems/Fencer's Familiarities to Zunde? (Save Ambrosias for Valkyrie, so the Dragon Rib can do its boosts right from the get-go.) Maybe this would speed up the crystal fight a bit. And if Valkyrie had Solitary Struggle, that would probably make up for the lost stat boosters.

Of course, with Solitary Struggle I'm not sure stat boosts from releasing would even be necessary.

AquaTiger

2007-09-19 01:34:24 am

Never give up!

Okay, I took some time to think about the single-segment run, and here's what I've concluded so far (in a rambling mishmash):

-Because we won't have Wrath of Forcefulness, Alicia absolutely NEEDS Psychosoma for Valkyrie to deal appreciable damage.
-Valkyrie just gets my end-game release items, and maybe some Ambrosia from earlier. Any items from early releases go either to Aaron/Dyn/Zunde or Phyress/Ehrde.
-I will release the following einherjar at the endgame rather than earlier: Phyress/Ehrde (with Mystletain), Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (probably with Gjallarhorn - if I decide to find Claimoh Solais I'll have Arngrim use it in the final battle), Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka (with Glance Reviver), Khanon (with Ether Scepter), Sha-Kon/Chrystie (with Crescent Arrow).
-If I don't get a Dragon Rib on the first try, I'm highly considering going back to Ancient Forest sometime before the Ravine Caverns visit and using Phyress/Ehrde's Flame Shot to knock loose a Brilliant Peacemaker. Sack Mimics have never been really rare for me.
-No Sorcerer will get more battle time than is absolutely necessary for them to level up for release - not that they're absolute wimps, but everyone else attacks better and Rufus covers all the spells I actually NEED. I need to plan which ones will be levelled when. (But I'll release them when I find good wands. Thus, I may need just three.)
-If I get Dyn, the attacks to use with him early on will be Lower Split and Quick Stab. Bloody Crusade, while stronger than Quick Stab, simply costs too much AP to be worthwhile, plus it launches lighter enemies like mad, something that screws up my combos royally.
-If I get Aaron, it'll be Smashing Swing and Sideswiper.
-I may be tempted to get Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka. If I do, I will release Tyrith/Celes with the Flare Baselard and use the items to pump Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (strength items) and Phyress/Ehrde (magic items).
-Two archers will be plenty - I plan on releasing with Mystletain and Crescent Arrow. Rufus keeps the Doublecross, a bow that seems tailor-made for his hit count role.
-I'm trying to decide on a good sealstone to restore for the final few areas. Currently I'm leaning toward Fire Blessing (to carry for the final few areas) or Ice Blessing (to swap with Six Elements Blessing if I can remember where that is, so Lezard deals less damage with some spells). I'd like to know some better ones that are 1000 crystals or less - I'll adjust this number when I know what our likely crystal threshold will be.
-Important skills to at least consider if not get:
==Fists of Iron/Mental Boost
==Psychosoma
==Training (to account for the fact that levelling up is going to be slower than in a segmented run, because everyone's sharing the experience)
==Beast Bludgeon (for beating Griffon fast, and maybe to farm for experience in Forest of Spirits if we're desperate)
==Unholy Purifier (Dragon Zombie and possibly the homunculi battle)
==Descaling Might (this is only a maybe, as scaled enemies aren't frequent enough near the end to warrant this despite there being dragons in Valhalla)
==Magician Slayer (Walther/Gyne, Odin, the final battles)
==Double Edge (only Rufus needs this)
==Free Item (probably have Arngrim or Dylan/Brahms learn this one, to take the load off of Rufus)
-Items to consider knocking loose (that I didn't consider for the segmented run):
==Baraka (I don't actually need to DA Ballistic Rhino because of later battles in Serdberg, but we can drop this if we don't need Training)
==Blade Claw (I'm going for the Gandeeva anyway, so might as well try to get an item that allows more characters to learn Beast Bludgeon, Descaling Might, and Unholy Purifier)

That's all I can think of so far.

Okay, I took some time to think about the single-segment run, and here's what I've concluded so far (in a rambling mishmash):

-Because we won't have Wrath of Forcefulness, Alicia absolutely NEEDS Psychosoma for Valkyrie to deal appreciable damage.
-Valkyrie just gets my end-game release items, and maybe some Ambrosia from earlier.  Any items from early releases go either to Aaron/Dyn/Zunde or Phyress/Ehrde.
-I will release the following einherjar at the endgame rather than earlier: Phyress/Ehrde (with Mystletain), Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (probably with Gjallarhorn - if I decide to find Claimoh Solais I'll have Arngrim use it in the final battle), Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka (with Glance Reviver), Khanon (with Ether Scepter), Sha-Kon/Chrystie (with Crescent Arrow).
-If I don't get a Dragon Rib on the first try, I'm highly considering going back to Ancient Forest sometime before the Ravine Caverns visit and using Phyress/Ehrde's Flame Shot to knock loose a Brilliant Peacemaker.  Sack Mimics have never been really rare for me.
-No Sorcerer will get more battle time than is absolutely necessary for them to level up for release - not that they're absolute wimps, but everyone else attacks better and Rufus covers all the spells I actually NEED.  I need to plan which ones will be levelled when.  (But I'll release them when I find good wands.  Thus, I may need just three.)
-If I get Dyn, the attacks to use with him early on will be Lower Split and Quick Stab.  Bloody Crusade, while stronger than Quick Stab, simply costs too much AP to be worthwhile, plus it launches lighter enemies like mad, something that screws up my combos royally.
-If I get Aaron, it'll be Smashing Swing and Sideswiper.
-I may be tempted to get Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka.  If I do, I will release Tyrith/Celes with the Flare Baselard and use the items to pump Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (strength items) and Phyress/Ehrde (magic items).
-Two archers will be plenty - I plan on releasing with Mystletain and Crescent Arrow.  Rufus keeps the Doublecross, a bow that seems tailor-made for his hit count role.
-I'm trying to decide on a good sealstone to restore for the final few areas.  Currently I'm leaning toward Fire Blessing (to carry for the final few areas) or Ice Blessing (to swap with Six Elements Blessing if I can remember where that is, so Lezard deals less damage with some spells).  I'd like to know some better ones that are 1000 crystals or less - I'll adjust this number when I know what our likely crystal threshold will be.
-Important skills to at least consider if not get:
==Fists of Iron/Mental Boost
==Psychosoma
==Training (to account for the fact that levelling up is going to be slower than in a segmented run, because everyone's sharing the experience)
==Beast Bludgeon (for beating Griffon fast, and maybe to farm for experience in Forest of Spirits if we're desperate)
==Unholy Purifier (Dragon Zombie and possibly the homunculi battle)
==Descaling Might (this is only a maybe, as scaled enemies aren't frequent enough near the end to warrant this despite there being dragons in Valhalla)
==Magician Slayer (Walther/Gyne, Odin, the final battles)
==Double Edge (only Rufus needs this)
==Free Item (probably have Arngrim or Dylan/Brahms learn this one, to take the load off of Rufus)
-Items to consider knocking loose (that I didn't consider for the segmented run):
==Baraka (I don't actually need to DA Ballistic Rhino because of later battles in Serdberg, but we can drop this if we don't need Training)
==Blade Claw (I'm going for the Gandeeva anyway, so might as well try to get an item that allows more characters to learn Beast Bludgeon, Descaling Might, and Unholy Purifier)

That's all I can think of so far.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-09-20 03:55:43 am

Direct Assault!

The only Einherjar I plan to get are Kraad, Celes and Zunde. It takes 15 seconds just to get an Einherjar, not to mention the time to get to the relics, equip them, change the party... the stat boosts only help on the final battles anyway so it's probably not saving any time.

The ideal final battle would be a two hit kill. Dragon Skull + Adamantine + 2 Power Bangles + Solitary Struggle, plus the usual (Magician Slayer, Might Potion, etc.). Attack with Spiral Pierce, Mirage Pierce. The hard part is that Spiral Pierce can't crit, but Mirage Pierce has to (double damage because of the Dragon Skull).

Quote:

-Because we won't have Wrath of Forcefulness, Alicia absolutely NEEDS Psychosoma for Valkyrie to deal appreciable damage.

It's not going to add much... she'll have 250 INT at most compared to 1000 ATK.

Quote:

-If I don't get a Dragon Rib on the first try, I'm highly considering going back to Ancient Forest sometime before the Ravine Caverns visit and using Phyress/Ehrde's Flame Shot to knock loose a Brilliant Peacemaker. Sack Mimics have never been really rare for me.

It's not really about Sack Mimics being rare... the Peacemaker is. You'd gain more (experience at least) from trying to get the Dragon Rib. The game is really bad with random numbers, low drop rates just can't be trusted.

Quote:

-If I get Dyn, the attacks to use with him early on will be Lower Split and Quick Stab. Bloody Crusade, while stronger than Quick Stab, simply costs too much AP to be worthwhile, plus it launches lighter enemies like mad, something that screws up my combos royally.

What's the party at this point? If you're only using one Heavy Warrior then use Dylan instead, at least until Dyn gets Smashing Swing.

Quote:

-I may be tempted to get Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka. If I do, I will release Tyrith/Celes with the Flare Baselard and use the items to pump Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (strength items) and Phyress/Ehrde (magic items).

Sounds good. Don't forget to buy crowns to get more INT boosts too.

Quote:

-I'm trying to decide on a good sealstone to restore for the final few areas. Currently I'm leaning toward Fire Blessing (to carry for the final few areas) or Ice Blessing (to swap with Six Elements Blessing if I can remember where that is, so Lezard deals less damage with some spells). I'd like to know some better ones that are 1000 crystals or less - I'll adjust this number when I know what our likely crystal threshold will be.

Are you planning to fight random battles then, or get the crystals from bosses? Ice Blessing helps a lot on Evolver too, but Fire Blessing sounds like a better choice. It's not that great once you get to Chapter 6 though.

Quote:

-Important skills to at least consider if not get:
(...)==Training (to account for the fact that levelling up is going to be slower than in a segmented run, because everyone's sharing the experience)

Training is a really bad skill, even for normal play. The stat-penalty is huge and since stats grow so little with levels you'll never really have an advantage, unless you only use it in random battles, which I don't think give enough experience to be worth the trouble.

I agree with the rest.

The only Einherjar I plan to get are Kraad, Celes and Zunde. It takes 15 seconds just to get an Einherjar, not to mention the time to get to the relics, equip them, change the party... the stat boosts only help on the final battles anyway so it's probably not saving any time.
 
The ideal final battle would be a two hit kill. Dragon Skull + Adamantine + 2 Power Bangles + Solitary Struggle, plus the usual (Magician Slayer, Might Potion, etc.). Attack with Spiral Pierce, Mirage Pierce. The hard part is that Spiral Pierce can't crit, but Mirage Pierce has to (double damage because of the Dragon Skull).

[quote]-Because we won't have Wrath of Forcefulness, Alicia absolutely NEEDS Psychosoma for Valkyrie to deal appreciable damage.[/quote]

It's not going to add much... she'll have 250 INT at most compared to 1000 ATK.

[quote]-If I don't get a Dragon Rib on the first try, I'm highly considering going back to Ancient Forest sometime before the Ravine Caverns visit and using Phyress/Ehrde's Flame Shot to knock loose a Brilliant Peacemaker.  Sack Mimics have never been really rare for me.[/quote]

It's not really about Sack Mimics being rare... the Peacemaker is. You'd gain more (experience at least) from trying to get the Dragon Rib. The game is really bad with random numbers, low drop rates just can't be trusted.

[quote]-If I get Dyn, the attacks to use with him early on will be Lower Split and Quick Stab.  Bloody Crusade, while stronger than Quick Stab, simply costs too much AP to be worthwhile, plus it launches lighter enemies like mad, something that screws up my combos royally.[/quote]

What's the party at this point? If you're only using one Heavy Warrior then use Dylan instead, at least until Dyn gets Smashing Swing.

[quote]-I may be tempted to get Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka.  If I do, I will release Tyrith/Celes with the Flare Baselard and use the items to pump Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (strength items) and Phyress/Ehrde (magic items).[/quote]

Sounds good. Don't forget to buy crowns to get more INT boosts too.

[quote]-I'm trying to decide on a good sealstone to restore for the final few areas.  Currently I'm leaning toward Fire Blessing (to carry for the final few areas) or Ice Blessing (to swap with Six Elements Blessing if I can remember where that is, so Lezard deals less damage with some spells).  I'd like to know some better ones that are 1000 crystals or less - I'll adjust this number when I know what our likely crystal threshold will be.[/quote]

Are you planning to fight random battles then, or get the crystals from bosses? Ice Blessing helps a lot on Evolver too, but Fire Blessing sounds like a better choice. It's not that great once you get to Chapter 6 though.

[quote]-Important skills to at least consider if not get:
(...)==Training (to account for the fact that levelling up is going to be slower than in a segmented run, because everyone's sharing the experience)
[/quote]

Training is a really bad skill, even for normal play. The stat-penalty is huge and since stats grow so little with levels you'll never really have an advantage, unless you only use it in random battles, which I don't think give enough experience to be worth the trouble.

I agree with the rest.

AquaTiger

2007-09-20 05:48:57 am

Never give up!

Hm.

I think my decision on Alicia and Psychosoma will probably have to depend on whether I get Phyress or Ehrde. If I get Ehrde, he has to get Psychosoma (since I'm giving him the magic boosts), so I'm likely to give it to Alicia as well. If I get Phyress (who already HAS Psychosoma) I may be justified in forgoing it for Alicia.

Will just have to examine the Peacemaker/Rib decision when I do actual testing. Reason I mention the Peacemaker as a consideration if I can't get the Rib in one try has to do with the fact that at that point in the game, we're talking a one-hit kill on a Sack Mimic, whereas that's probably NOT the case with Dragon Zombie.

My problem with using Dylan as my battling Heavy Warrior is that Dyn won't gain ANY experience that way and thus won't ever learn good attacks. It's either use two specific attacks for Dyn, or have both Heavy Warriors in the battle, and in boss battles (my prime source of experience) I would rather have the former. Plus, Smashing Swing isn't until level 23.

When I pick a sealstone, ideally, the majority of my crystals will come from bosses. However, since I'm tempting the idea of spending some time levelling in Forest of Spirits (I WILL do it for sure if Rufus isn't level 25 by then, or if Dyn still doesn't have Smashing Swing by that point, but I may consider it regardless especially if I'm close enough to level 31 for either Aaron or Dyn), some crystals may come from there.

Ice Blessing has less to do with Evolver (I'd have to farm crystals in Ancient Forest and Audoula if that were the case) than with the final battles (fire is one of Lezard's key elements), so using that would require finding a dais not far off the path. I may need crystals to restore whatever was on the dais (or if Six Elements Blessing was the one on the dais, I'd carry it).

Hm.

I think my decision on Alicia and Psychosoma will probably have to depend on whether I get Phyress or Ehrde.  If I get Ehrde, he has to get Psychosoma (since I'm giving him the magic boosts), so I'm likely to give it to Alicia as well.  If I get Phyress (who already HAS Psychosoma) I may be justified in forgoing it for Alicia.

Will just have to examine the Peacemaker/Rib decision when I do actual testing.  Reason I mention the Peacemaker as a consideration if I can't get the Rib in one try has to do with the fact that at that point in the game, we're talking a one-hit kill on a Sack Mimic, whereas that's probably NOT the case with Dragon Zombie.

My problem with using Dylan as my battling Heavy Warrior is that Dyn won't gain ANY experience that way and thus won't ever learn good attacks.  It's either use two specific attacks for Dyn, or have both Heavy Warriors in the battle, and in boss battles (my prime source of experience) I would rather have the former.  Plus, Smashing Swing isn't until level 23.

When I pick a sealstone, ideally, the majority of my crystals will come from bosses.  However, since I'm tempting the idea of spending some time levelling in Forest of Spirits (I WILL do it for sure if Rufus isn't level 25 by then, or if Dyn still doesn't have Smashing Swing by that point, but I may consider it regardless especially if I'm close enough to level 31 for either Aaron or Dyn), some crystals may come from there.

Ice Blessing has less to do with Evolver (I'd have to farm crystals in Ancient Forest and Audoula if that were the case) than with the final battles (fire is one of Lezard's key elements), so using that would require finding a dais not far off the path.  I may need crystals to restore whatever was on the dais (or if Six Elements Blessing was the one on the dais, I'd carry it).

VorpalEdge

2007-09-28 03:30:24 pm

welcome to the machine

Congratulations on the run, aquatiger.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-09-28 07:55:29 pm

2007-09-28 07:53:44 pm

Never give up!

Thank you.

By the way, Mike, I have a question. Is what you told DJGrenola about the platforming demonstrated in the run based merely on what I said in my comments, or was that an actual impression you got while viewing the run?

(I concur regardless - 2D platforming is not my strong suit in the slightest, despite what a couple of other runs I've done might lead viewers to believe.)

getter77

2007-09-29 12:46:51 am

100% runs=great to watch

I'm with Vorpal, great job on the run! VP runs are always just too cool to be anything other than some degree of awesome...

drkhades

2007-09-29 01:15:17 am

tri-Ace 4evar!!!

Nice job AquaTiger ;D.

I'm shocked to see a time in the low 2:20's. GL with the SS you are planning to do in the future.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-09-30 03:19:33 pm

2007-09-29 03:25:07 am

Never give up!

As some of you may be aware, I've been doing a 1-crystal playthrough recently. Its two goals have been:
1) Beat Anarchic Entity without Valkyrie (edit: a goal I just accomplished)
2) Go through Seraphic Gate AFTER goal 1 is met

Doing this playthrough has probably given me some insight into viable strategies that I can apply to a normal-difficulty single-segment run.

Here's what I've determined so far:
-Since each hit only adds 1% to Soul Crush damage, unless we're dealing five-digit damages constantly (yeah right) we have little need to build the hit counter. Therefore, Double Edge probably isn't even necessary. The issue is that I get all four runes needed for it automatically over the course of a normal playthrough, at least if I snag the Ouroburos Symbol after Dragon Zombie. Further testing needed.
-I do not want to be forced to use Valkyrie's Toughness skill against Anarchic Entity. Therefore, if I can't take him out in one Soul Crush chain, we have problems. I may switch to a Solitary Struggle strategy against him, depending on what I find out at the end of test plays.

Less related notes:
-I'm not looking forward to the idea of restarting until I get BOTH Richelle and Kraad. So here's what I'm going to do in regards to that. I'll still get both relics, but only restart if I don't get Kraad. If I get Jessica or Sylphide instead of Richelle, I'll release THEM in Palace of the Venerated Dragon with the Flare Baselard and keep Tyrith/Celes to the end. If I DO get Richelle, I'll release her with Hildr's Sword, release Tyrith/Celes with the Flare Baselard, and keep Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka to the end.
-I will need to use my Double-checks wisely. I think I will save the first one for Hydra, when I know what my party is going to be. No earlier than Kraken for sure, though.
-If I get Dyn - and ONLY if I get Dyn - I will use Dylan during the Evolver fight and ONLY the Evolver fight. Dylan gets shoved aside by the time we reach Crawsus. The only reason I'd use Dylan in THIS case is because his attacks are so much stronger, making the Evolver fight easier - but when we reach Crawsus I need to start training Dyn so he's at least half-competent when we need him.
-In addition to both Sword Blessing and whatever sealstone we keep for the endgame, I'm restoring Cotton Dust Wrath in Surt's Volcano Caverns. I will use this during Crawsus, so we don't have to put Sword Blessing in the dais OR fight anything for a third stone.

Here's my current projected skill list:
-For Alicia:
==Fists of Iron
==Magician Slayer
==Psychosoma (only if Ehrde is picked)
-For Rufus:
==Double Edge (maybe)
-For Dylan
==Fists of Iron
==Beast Bludgeon (maybe; depends on how Griffon goes in practice attempts)
-For Phyress/Ehrde:
==Psychosoma/Magician Slayer (whichever one they didn't have)
==Fists of Iron
==Mental Boost
==Beast Bludgeon
==Unholy Purifier
==Descaling Might
-For Aaron/Dyn/Zunde:
==Fists of Iron
==Beast Bludgeon
==Descaling Might (Aaron/Dyn only)
==Magician Slayer
==Unholy Purifier

Odds are I'm going to skip Training - or at least, not go out of my way to get it. If I can get it without incident, I may have Aaron/Dyn/Zunde, Rufus, and/or Phyress/Ehrde learn it - but no one else.

....and before you ask, Beast Bludgeon is in there in case we need to level up in Forest of Spirits, except for Dylan's case where it's in there in the event Griffon is too much.

Edit: I may start testing the strategies for this run in segments - using a policy of only restarting a segment if I die - to get a feel for the strategies.

By the way, tri-Ace Fanboy, I thought of something while rewatching my run. For either Dragon Zombie or Arectaris, what about breaking fewer of the gems in the arena before attacking? Just how much DO those gems affect their stats?

As some of you may be aware, I've been doing a 1-crystal playthrough recently.  Its two goals have been:
1) Beat Anarchic Entity without Valkyrie [i](edit: a goal I just accomplished)[/i]
2) Go through Seraphic Gate AFTER goal 1 is met

Doing this playthrough has probably given me some insight into viable strategies that I can apply to a normal-difficulty single-segment run.

Here's what I've determined so far:
-Since each hit only adds 1% to Soul Crush damage, unless we're dealing five-digit damages constantly (yeah right) we have little need to build the hit counter.  Therefore, Double Edge probably isn't even necessary.  The issue is that I get all four runes needed for it automatically over the course of a normal playthrough, at least if I snag the Ouroburos Symbol after Dragon Zombie.  Further testing needed.
-I do not want to be forced to use Valkyrie's Toughness skill against Anarchic Entity.  Therefore, if I can't take him out in one Soul Crush chain, we have problems.  I may switch to a Solitary Struggle strategy against him, depending on what I find out at the end of test plays.

Less related notes:
-I'm not looking forward to the idea of restarting until I get BOTH Richelle and Kraad.  So here's what I'm going to do in regards to that.  I'll still get both relics, but only restart if I don't get Kraad.  If I get Jessica or Sylphide instead of Richelle, I'll release THEM in Palace of the Venerated Dragon with the Flare Baselard and keep Tyrith/Celes to the end.  If I DO get Richelle, I'll release her with Hildr's Sword, release Tyrith/Celes with the Flare Baselard, and keep Fraudir/Circe/Rasheeka to the end.
-I will need to use my Double-checks wisely.  I think I will save the first one for Hydra, when I know what my party is going to be.  No earlier than Kraken for sure, though.
-If I get Dyn - and ONLY if I get Dyn - I will use Dylan during the Evolver fight and ONLY the Evolver fight.  Dylan gets shoved aside by the time we reach Crawsus.  The only reason I'd use Dylan in THIS case is because his attacks are so much stronger, making the Evolver fight easier - but when we reach Crawsus I need to start training Dyn so he's at least half-competent when we need him.
-In addition to both Sword Blessing and whatever sealstone we keep for the endgame, I'm restoring Cotton Dust Wrath in Surt's Volcano Caverns.  I will use this during Crawsus, so we don't have to put Sword Blessing in the dais OR fight anything for a third stone.

Here's my current projected skill list:
-For Alicia:
==Fists of Iron
==Magician Slayer
==Psychosoma (only if Ehrde is picked)
-For Rufus:
==Double Edge (maybe)
-For Dylan
==Fists of Iron
==Beast Bludgeon (maybe; depends on how Griffon goes in practice attempts)
-For Phyress/Ehrde:
==Psychosoma/Magician Slayer (whichever one they didn't have)
==Fists of Iron
==Mental Boost
==Beast Bludgeon
==Unholy Purifier
==Descaling Might
-For Aaron/Dyn/Zunde:
==Fists of Iron
==Beast Bludgeon
==Descaling Might (Aaron/Dyn only)
==Magician Slayer
==Unholy Purifier

Odds are I'm going to skip Training - or at least, not go out of my way to get it.  If I can get it without incident, I may have Aaron/Dyn/Zunde, Rufus, and/or Phyress/Ehrde learn it - but no one else.

....and before you ask, Beast Bludgeon is in there in case we need to level up in Forest of Spirits, except for Dylan's case where it's in there in the event Griffon is too much.

Edit: I may start testing the strategies for this run in segments - using a policy of only restarting a segment if I die - to get a feel for the strategies.

By the way, tri-Ace Fanboy, I thought of something while rewatching my run.  For either Dragon Zombie or Arectaris, what about breaking fewer of the gems in the arena before attacking?  Just how much DO those gems affect their stats?

Enhasa

2007-11-23 07:37:25 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Ok, I'm pretty sure I congratulated you AquaTiger (just in case, congrats again!), and I'm pretty sure I posted in this thread, but I guess I never did. Here are my notes. Don't feel bad, most of these aren't even criticisms but just observations. I verified as soon as it was available (others took much longer), so it's been a while, but I'll try to clarify anything that needs it. The bloopers and anti-bloopers (inadvertently saving time) are great though. the seg14 was just something to tell mike to tell nate, ignore that.

Quote:

battle voices could be turned off to save time like in so3
wasted time with semiauto targeting
total spaz in menus, lots of menu trips too
killing people instead of running
old run does a couple minor things better
bloopers: seg2 (1:48), seg3 (4:37), seg37 (1:03)
anti-bloopers: seg27 (2:22), seg39 (0:24)
old pre-lezard rooms was 37 secs, new is 34 secs

seg14: starts around 0:45
seg15: why put red cherry and poison seed on zunde
seg17: dead ashes usage pretty funny
seg26: why not run from the battle
seg35: enemy keeping the block down for you
seg35: crazy conservative for last blocks
seg36: walking off save point, then back on
seg38: don't dash into both guys (ps ray force)
seg38: weapon break (gjallarhorn -> dragon slayer)
seg40: good button mashing

Ok, I'm pretty sure I congratulated you AquaTiger (just in case, congrats again!), and I'm pretty sure I posted in this thread, but I guess I never did. Here are my notes. Don't feel bad, most of these aren't even criticisms but just observations. I verified as soon as it was available (others took much longer), so it's been a while, but I'll try to clarify anything that needs it. The bloopers and anti-bloopers (inadvertently saving time) are great though. the seg14 was just something to tell mike to tell nate, ignore that.

[quote]
battle voices could be turned off to save time like in so3
wasted time with semiauto targeting
total spaz in menus, lots of menu trips too
killing people instead of running
old run does a couple minor things better
bloopers: seg2 (1:48), seg3 (4:37), seg37 (1:03)
anti-bloopers: seg27 (2:22), seg39 (0:24)
old pre-lezard rooms was 37 secs, new is 34 secs

seg14: starts around 0:45
seg15: why put red cherry and poison seed on zunde
seg17: dead ashes usage pretty funny
seg26: why not run from the battle
seg35: enemy keeping the block down for you
seg35: crazy conservative for last blocks
seg36: walking off save point, then back on
seg38: don't dash into both guys (ps ray force)
seg38: weapon break (gjallarhorn -> dragon slayer)
seg40: good button mashing
[/quote]

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2007-11-23 08:33:20 am

2007-11-23 07:49:42 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Now I'm going to rewatch the segments TAF posted on youtube and comment. Even though it is a test run, it's great. I don't need to say what are mistakes since you know, or also what is great like the menu work.

- I forget where this was asked, but the answer is: yeah, small hops are faster than full jumps. Basically you just want to tap the jump button to get more jumps in.
- To go up and down (really, into and out of) to next rooms, the best way to do this is: before you get to the door, switch to holding down the analog straight left or right, with your right thumb instead of your left. Mash up or down on the d-pad with your left thumb. This way your room transitions will always be perfect, and you will never get anything like crouching instead of going down. This will soon become second nature, and it's very much worth it because it looks so smooth.
- This ties into both of the last two points but when trying to maximize the number of hops, the tendency is to want to do it so much that the last hop ends in the middle of a door up/down or maybe clip the overhang of a door left/right. This seems innocent but it wastes any time you would be saving plus more. Hopping is only slightly faster, so even when you hop and can immediately push down upon landing to go to the next room, that last hop is slower than simply doing the technique in the previous bullet point above.
- In battle, when you are attacking, then ending the attack chain, then attacking again, the way you (and everyone else I've seen) handle this is letting the attack chain end, then attacking again once the camera has returned to the party (with very little delay). What you can do is actually input your next attack during the end of the previous attack chain (when the camera is returning), which makes the previous attack chain lead right into the next one. It's a similar idea to buffering in fighting games or maybe even somewhat, action canceling in SO3.

Good luck, I hope you are doing well.

Edit: I will say you are good at two techniques necessary to maintain horizontal speed (I feel like I am critiquing a Contra run):

1) jumping, shooting down diagonally, and landing on the enemy
2) shooting in the air instead of on the ground (ex: shooting as soon as the jump is started, pulls off like the special move in old TMNT games)

And oh yeah, I heard that you don't need to take the detour to get the XP item in Dipan, but maybe you were the one who told me, lol. :-/

Now I'm going to rewatch the segments TAF posted on youtube and comment. Even though it is a test run, it's great. I don't need to say what are mistakes since you know, or also what is great like the menu work.

- I forget where this was asked, but the answer is: yeah, small hops are faster than full jumps. Basically you just want to tap the jump button to get more jumps in.
- To go up and down (really, into and out of) to next rooms, the best way to do this is: before you get to the door, switch to holding down the analog straight left or right, with your right thumb instead of your left. Mash up or down on the d-pad with your left thumb. This way your room transitions will always be perfect, and you will never get anything like crouching instead of going down. This will soon become second nature, and it's very much worth it because it looks so smooth.
- This ties into both of the last two points but when trying to maximize the number of hops, the tendency is to want to do it so much that the last hop ends in the middle of a door up/down or maybe clip the overhang of a door left/right. This seems innocent but it wastes any time you would be saving plus more. Hopping is only slightly faster, so even when you hop and can immediately push down upon landing to go to the next room, that last hop is slower than simply doing the technique in the previous bullet point above.
- In battle, when you are attacking, then ending the attack chain, then attacking again, the way you (and everyone else I've seen) handle this is letting the attack chain end, then attacking again once the camera has returned to the party (with very little delay). What you can do is actually input your next attack during the end of the previous attack chain (when the camera is returning), which makes the previous attack chain lead right into the next one. It's a similar idea to buffering in fighting games or maybe even somewhat, action canceling in SO3.

Good luck, I hope you are doing well.

Edit: I will say you are good at two techniques necessary to maintain horizontal speed (I feel like I am critiquing a Contra run):

1) jumping, shooting down diagonally, and landing on the enemy
2) shooting in the air instead of on the ground (ex: shooting as soon as the jump is started, pulls off like the special move in old TMNT games)

And oh yeah, I heard that you don't need to take the detour to get the XP item in Dipan, but maybe you were the one who told me, lol. :-/

AquaTiger

2007-11-27 12:15:23 am

Never give up!

I'll get to all of these later (I would have done it sooner but I accidentally deleted an entire post with responses to what you said) but I believe it was tri-Ace Fanboy, and not me, who said the XP item turned out not to be necessary. Kraad can apparently get to release level after Wyvern without it just fine.

Also take note that I've been working on finishing games that I've let sit for too long, preparing the comments for a run of another game that I submitted recently, and - most relevantly - have actually been writing a speed guide for this game. Mostly my focus has been 'saves' or 'no saves', but I included notes for no-release and no-einherjar variants because I know some people want to play that way. I'm mostly relying on my experiences for such a thing, but would revise it when tri-Ace Fanboy gets around to finishing his run. (I can't imagine changing more than half of it once that happens though, as a lot of the strategies between the two are comparable.)

Speaking of guides, when the heck is tAF going to finish HIS guide (which is basically only missing Seraphic Gate)?

I'll get to all of these later (I would have done it sooner but I accidentally deleted an entire post with responses to what you said) but I believe it was tri-Ace Fanboy, and not me, who said the XP item turned out not to be necessary.  Kraad can apparently get to release level after Wyvern without it just fine.

Also take note that I've been working on finishing games that I've let sit for too long, preparing the comments for a run of another game that I submitted recently, and - most relevantly - have actually been writing a speed guide for this game.  Mostly my focus has been 'saves' or 'no saves', but I included notes for no-release and no-einherjar variants because I know some people want to play that way.  I'm mostly relying on my experiences for such a thing, but would revise it when tri-Ace Fanboy gets around to finishing his run.  (I can't imagine changing more than half of it once that happens though, as a lot of the strategies between the two are comparable.)

Speaking of guides, when the heck is tAF going to finish HIS guide (which is basically only missing Seraphic Gate)?

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-12-01 12:57:03 am

Direct Assault!

Wow, I haven't posted here in a long time. Anyway, I finally managed to watch the run. Good work! Thanks a lot for the comments too.

I'll see if I can post more detailed comments later. One of the things I remember to mention now is that you levelled Sha-Kon and Celes against early bosses (Griffon, Kraken), but they were only released before the final fight. I'd wait to level them in the first Bifrost battle instead. The extra experience would help Dylan, and guarantee a DA against Kraken.

Wrath of Forcefulness is probably the best choice for a SS as well. You still did over 15k damage to Freya without a weapon.

I haven't progressed in my run yet because I don't know if Solitary Struggle is worth it. The game ressurrects characters in the final battle so I'd have to let Lezard attack for it to help Valkyrie, which is going to be slower than fighting like you did.

Quote:

-I do not want to be forced to use Valkyrie's Toughness skill against Anarchic Entity. Therefore, if I can't take him out in one Soul Crush chain, we have problems. I may switch to a Solitary Struggle strategy against him, depending on what I find out at the end of test plays.

Give her Hrist's Mithril Plate and get Six Elements Blessing. Valkyrie can easily tank anything he uses with that.

Quote:

By the way, tri-Ace Fanboy, I thought of something while rewatching my run. For either Dragon Zombie or Arectaris, what about breaking fewer of the gems in the arena before attacking? Just how much DO those gems affect their stats?

Never tested it. I'll check the Dragon Zombie later but I don't have a save near Arectaris. His crystals also let him absorb elements and use spells.

Quote:

- To go up and down (really, into and out of) to next rooms, the best way to do this is: before you get to the door, switch to holding down the analog straight left or right, with your right thumb instead of your left. Mash up or down on the d-pad with your left thumb. This way your room transitions will always be perfect, and you will never get anything like crouching instead of going down. This will soon become second nature, and it's very much worth it because it looks so smooth.

I'll try, but it's probably too much trouble for me... I hold controllers in an "unusual" way which makes it hard to move my right thumb over to the left stick.

Quote:

Speaking of guides, when the heck is tAF going to finish HIS guide (which is basically only missing Seraphic Gate)?

Gate is mostly done, but I'm changing a lot of things throughout the whole guide. Next update is meant to be the "final" one, with everything I wanted the guide to have. I'll release the Gate guide separately before that though, as soon as I finish it.

Wow, I haven't posted here in a long time. Anyway, I finally managed to watch the run. Good work! Thanks a lot for the comments too.

I'll see if I can post more detailed comments later. One of the things I remember to mention now is that you levelled Sha-Kon and Celes against early bosses (Griffon, Kraken), but they were only released before the final fight. I'd wait to level them in the first Bifrost battle instead. The extra experience would help Dylan, and guarantee a DA against Kraken.

Wrath of Forcefulness is probably the best choice for a SS as well. You still did over 15k damage to Freya without a weapon.

I haven't progressed in my run yet because I don't know if Solitary Struggle is worth it. The game ressurrects characters in the final battle so I'd have to let Lezard attack for it to help Valkyrie, which is going to be slower than fighting like you did.

[quote]-I do not want to be forced to use Valkyrie's Toughness skill against Anarchic Entity.  Therefore, if I can't take him out in one Soul Crush chain, we have problems.  I may switch to a Solitary Struggle strategy against him, depending on what I find out at the end of test plays.[/quote]

Give her Hrist's Mithril Plate and get Six Elements Blessing. Valkyrie can easily tank anything he uses with that.

[quote]By the way, tri-Ace Fanboy, I thought of something while rewatching my run.  For either Dragon Zombie or Arectaris, what about breaking fewer of the gems in the arena before attacking?  Just how much DO those gems affect their stats?[/quote]

Never tested it. I'll check the Dragon Zombie later but I don't have a save near Arectaris. His crystals also let him absorb elements and use spells.

[quote]- To go up and down (really, into and out of) to next rooms, the best way to do this is: before you get to the door, switch to holding down the analog straight left or right, with your right thumb instead of your left. Mash up or down on the d-pad with your left thumb. This way your room transitions will always be perfect, and you will never get anything like crouching instead of going down. This will soon become second nature, and it's very much worth it because it looks so smooth.[/quote]

I'll try, but it's probably too much trouble for me... I hold controllers in an "unusual" way which makes it hard to move my right thumb over to the left stick.

[quote]Speaking of guides, when the heck is tAF going to finish HIS guide (which is basically only missing Seraphic Gate)?[/quote]

Gate is mostly done, but I'm changing a lot of things throughout the whole guide. Next update is meant to be the "final" one, with everything I wanted the guide to have. I'll release the Gate guide separately before that though, as soon as I finish it.

Enhasa

2007-12-03 06:52:14 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

I'll try, but it's probably too much trouble for me... I hold controllers in an "unusual" way which makes it hard to move my right thumb over to the left stick.

I know this is a lot of talk about just controller orientation but, what about using the left analog with your left thumb as normal, and then hitting the d-pad with a finger like say your pointer finger?

tri-Ace Fanboy

Edit history:

tri-Ace Fanboy: 2007-12-19 03:03:01 am

2007-12-16 08:21:55 pm

Direct Assault!

Just sliding from left/right to down/up on the dpad is working fine. Guess I'll go with that.

Some things I'm wondering about, is jumping faster than running in towns too? Alicia jumps higher in towns. What about when she hits the ceiling, like in front of Solde's shop?

Also there's a problem in the normal quality (both AVI and MP4) videos of segment 14: the first 44 seconds shouldn't be included. The low, high and insane qualities are fine.

Quote:

I'll release the Gate guide separately before that though, as soon as I finish it.

Still incomplete but: http://www.carpa.kit.net/gate123.txt

Edit: If I turn off the battle voices on the title screen, before starting the game, is it included in the run's time? Should I turn them off after starting a new game?

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-12-23 04:45:35 pm

Direct Assault!

Bump... sort of.

Uploaded 4 new segments to Youtube, should get 2 more done today.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=triAceFan

spineshark

2007-12-23 05:58:59 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Awesome.

Also, the run will use the game timer so entering the config menu from the title screen shouldn't count against you.

tri-Ace Fanboy

Edit history:

tri-Ace Fanboy: 2007-12-28 08:45:30 pm

2007-12-24 04:59:50 pm

Direct Assault!

Ah, that's good to know. Thanks.

Got 16 segments total uploaded now, right before Crawsus. Currently 15 minutes faster than AquaTiger's time, but I skipped the Ancient Forest and won't get Wrath of Forcefulness either so that can change after Chapter 4.

Edit: 37, Valhalla.

tri-Ace Fanboy

Edit history:

tri-Ace Fanboy: 2007-12-28 05:21:21 pm

2007-12-26 09:18:09 pm

Direct Assault!

Ok, I'm not so sure about skipping the Ancient Forest anymore. Could someone help me with timing how much extra time I had to spend so far because I don't have a sealpouch?

Segments 11 (Audoula), 17 (Crawsus) and 22 (PoVD) so far.

In Audoula I have to place Ice Blessing back in the Shell and go back to the Spring for Sword Blessing. I think that's about 25 seconds.

In Crawsus I have to place Sword Blessing, come back 2 rooms for Earth Blessing and go place it in the second Dais. Maybe I should have fought the Troll for Mudbank Law instead. Anyway, seems to be about 40 seconds.

And in the Palace I have to put Wrath of Forcefulness back, fight a battle without it (finishing it in 11 hits instead of 2) and pick it up again. 1 minute?

So around 1 and a half minute so far. Does that sound right? I'll see how fast I can do the Ancient Forest later (still have a save in Kythena Plains).

Other than that...

The Kraken would be faster but it's hard to say how much. I guess the difference would be the same as fighting the Griffon at most, and I have a better strategy for the Kraken anyway.

I would fight a random battle in Ancient Forest for the Poison Seed instead of getting the Piercing Imprint in Surts. Both battles should take the same amount of time but I can warp an extra enemy in Surts if I don't need to fight there.

Evolvers, Hydra, first Stalker and Dragon Zombie aren't affected at all.

From now on it should only affect Yggdrasil (need Magical Light Blessing), unless I'm forgetting something (I didn't think of the Power Bangle in the PoVD).

Edit: Actually it didn't waste any time in Yggdrasil.

Ok, I'm not so sure about skipping the Ancient Forest anymore. Could someone help me with timing how much extra time I had to spend so far because I don't have a sealpouch?

Segments 11 (Audoula), 17 (Crawsus) and 22 (PoVD) so far.

In Audoula I have to place Ice Blessing back in the Shell and go back to the Spring for Sword Blessing. I think that's about 25 seconds.

In Crawsus I have to place Sword Blessing, come back 2 rooms for Earth Blessing and go place it in the second Dais. Maybe I should have fought the Troll for Mudbank Law instead. Anyway, seems to be about 40 seconds.

And in the Palace I have to put Wrath of Forcefulness back, fight a battle without it (finishing it in 11 hits instead of 2) and pick it up again. 1 minute?

So around 1 and a half minute so far. Does that sound right? I'll see how fast I can do the Ancient Forest later (still have a save in Kythena Plains).

Other than that...

The Kraken would be faster but it's hard to say how much. I guess the difference would be the same as fighting the Griffon at most, and I have a better strategy for the Kraken anyway.

I would fight a random battle in Ancient Forest for the Poison Seed instead of getting the Piercing Imprint in Surts. Both battles should take the same amount of time but I can warp an extra enemy in Surts if I don't need to fight there.

Evolvers, Hydra, first Stalker and Dragon Zombie aren't affected at all.

From now on it should only affect Yggdrasil (need Magical Light Blessing), unless I'm forgetting something (I didn't think of the Power Bangle in the PoVD).

Edit: Actually it didn't waste any time in Yggdrasil.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-12-29 03:57:50 am

Direct Assault!

Well it's done. 43 segments, final save at 1:54:01, screen blacks out at 1:57:33.

Comments? I think I can still improve it by 2 minutes at least, not including turning off the voices.

spineshark

2007-12-29 05:37:49 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Awesome. I'll be watching through the rest of it this weekend.

When I started watching Aquatiger's run, I was really hoping sub-2:00 was possible. I guess it is!

drkhades

2007-12-29 09:23:29 am

tri-Ace 4evar!!!

Great job tAFB ;D. I still have to thoroughly view your speedrun over again. For sure, I remember seeing a couple of those unusually long loading times (one Valhalla for sure). Does the in-game timer still run when it happens? (At least 5 seconds are lost for sure if it does).

You probably know it's common in tri-Ace games already *raises fists against SO3..*

getter77

2007-12-29 02:36:34 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Hurray! Can't wait to see it on SDA. Each new or improved VP game related run puts a smile on my face.