Valkyrie Profile

2005-07-06 07:00:14 am

OK, I found Enhasa's original post on this but can't reply to it, so I'll just paste it here:

Quote:

I did a search and the only thing I got was an offhand comment by gorush2k4, so I started a new thread for this. There's also a thread on nesvideos, but currently it doesn't have anything interesting: http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2355&highlight =

Not only is this my favorite game on the PS1, it wouldn't be a poor speedrunning candidate either. Obviously it's a bit of a blow that the long intro and recruitment cutscenes can't be skipped, but on the other hand, most of the game is completely optional. I haven't actually done any test runs yet, and I won't have PS1/2 access until the fall, but I'm throwing this out there to see what anyone thinks. I heard a ballpark figure someone gave of 8-12 hours or so, but I know that is way off.

I am thinking the fastest route would be Easy B ending, excluding the C ending of course. In Easy, you are limited to less skills, characters (not an issue), equipment, and level 1 items (no Creation Gem/Jewel). However, the enemies are a bit weaker and your guys actually come with levels (also probably not as issue since you'll be sticking with early Arngrim, Jelanda, etc). You do get Guts and Auto-Item, and you can receive from Odin and divine yourself decent enough equipment.

The A ending is much cooler, so of course it deserves a run in a separate category, but B has to be faster. For A, the killer is getting Mystina, which requires a whole 'nother dungeon (Tower of Lezard Valeth). Luckily, you get Creation Gem and then Jewel from that dungeon, but I can't remember what would be useful to make by that point. You'd also have to watch a lot more cutscenes, including Lucian and Mystina recruitments, Lucian transfer, Loki stealing the Dragon Orb, etc. (The one advantage is the final dungeon is a lot shorter.) So if I or anyone else were to do this, he/she would probably try the B ending first.

I don't know how many optional dungeons I would do. I would get Arngrim's Dragon Slayer, so probably dungeons with dragon bosses like Dragoncastle Caverns, and fighting Dragon Zombies inside Caves of Oblivion sounds like a good idea too. Normal has a couple more dragon bosses, but dunno if that's worth enough.

About the fourth character, ideally it would be someone with useful equipment you can get afterwards, like Nanami. But really, it would most likely come down to figuring out who has the shortest recruitment cutscene. I think that when you get characters is set when you start the game and not when a chapter starts, so restarting to get Chapter 2 Nanami would be quite annoying. Finally, I am a big fan of mages in this game, but 2 mages is a little suboptimal as you don't get to fully exploit either Sap Guard/Might Reinforce or Spell Reinforce. Chapter 2 Janus and a Raven Slayer might be another option.

Ok, that's it for now.

To that, I have to say...

OMG, how did I miss this? This is my absolute favorite RPG of the post-16-bit era...

Although, to tell you the truth, I've never played Easy mode, so dunno how that would go.

Here's a thought...would Lawfer be a possibility? He is also available in Chapter 2, and he's actually one of the best fighters in the game (don't listen to the character FAQs, they are full of BS); the base damage on his PWS attack is just sick, and its charge time is WAAAAY too short. Lenneth/Arngrim/Lawfer/mage is definitely the best team in the game from my experience in normal play (discounting Seraphic Gate, obviously)...not sure how it would play out in a speedrun. He is weak at the start from my experience, I am not sure if this is due more to weak weapons or low levels. *shrug*

Speaking of mages, are there any significant differences between any of them? The answer always seemed to be "no" to me...if that's the case then you should definitely stick with Jelanda since you get her first.

In Easy Mode, what all is required to beat the game? I may actually do something with this, we'll see...

-Josh

Thread title:

OK, I found Enhasa's original post on this but can't reply to it, so I'll just paste it here:

[quote]I did a search and the only thing I got was an offhand comment by gorush2k4, so I started a new thread for this. There's also a thread on nesvideos, but currently it doesn't have anything interesting: http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2355&highlight =
 
Not only is this my favorite game on the PS1, it wouldn't be a poor speedrunning candidate either. Obviously it's a bit of a blow that the long intro and recruitment cutscenes can't be skipped, but on the other hand, most of the game is completely optional. I haven't actually done any test runs yet, and I won't have PS1/2 access until the fall, but I'm throwing this out there to see what anyone thinks. I heard a ballpark figure someone gave of 8-12 hours or so, but I know that is way off.
 
I am thinking the fastest route would be Easy B ending, excluding the C ending of course. In Easy, you are limited to less skills, characters (not an issue), equipment, and level 1 items (no Creation Gem/Jewel). However, the enemies are a bit weaker and your guys actually come with levels (also probably not as issue since you'll be sticking with early Arngrim, Jelanda, etc). You do get Guts and Auto-Item, and you can receive from Odin and divine yourself decent enough equipment.
 
The A ending is much cooler, so of course it deserves a run in a separate category, but B has to be faster. For A, the killer is getting Mystina, which requires a whole 'nother dungeon (Tower of Lezard Valeth). Luckily, you get Creation Gem and then Jewel from that dungeon, but I can't remember what would be useful to make by that point. You'd also have to watch a lot more cutscenes, including Lucian and Mystina recruitments, Lucian transfer, Loki stealing the Dragon Orb, etc. (The one advantage is the final dungeon is a lot shorter.) So if I or anyone else were to do this, he/she would probably try the B ending first.
 
I don't know how many optional dungeons I would do. I would get Arngrim's Dragon Slayer, so probably dungeons with dragon bosses like Dragoncastle Caverns, and fighting Dragon Zombies inside Caves of Oblivion sounds like a good idea too. Normal has a couple more dragon bosses, but dunno if that's worth enough.
 
About the fourth character, ideally it would be someone with useful equipment you can get afterwards, like Nanami. But really, it would most likely come down to figuring out who has the shortest recruitment cutscene. I think that when you get characters is set when you start the game and not when a chapter starts, so restarting to get Chapter 2 Nanami would be quite annoying. Finally, I am a big fan of mages in this game, but 2 mages is a little suboptimal as you don't get to fully exploit either Sap Guard/Might Reinforce or Spell Reinforce. Chapter 2 Janus and a Raven Slayer might be another option.
 
Ok, that's it for now.[/quote]

To that, I have to say...

OMG, how did I miss this?  This is my absolute favorite RPG of the post-16-bit era...

Although, to tell you the truth, I've never played Easy mode, so dunno how that would go.

Here's a thought...would Lawfer be a possibility?  He is also available in Chapter 2, and he's actually one of the best fighters in the game (don't listen to the character FAQs, they are full of BS); the base damage on his PWS attack is just sick, and its charge time is WAAAAY too short.  Lenneth/Arngrim/Lawfer/mage is definitely the best team in the game from my experience in normal play (discounting Seraphic Gate, obviously)...not sure how it would play out in a speedrun.  He is weak at the start from my experience, I am not sure if this is due more to weak weapons or low levels. *shrug*

Speaking of mages, are there any significant differences between any of them?  The answer always seemed to be "no" to me...if that's the case then you should definitely stick with Jelanda since you get her first.

In Easy Mode, what all is required to beat the game?  I may actually do something with this, we'll see...

-Josh

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-07-06 07:28:12 am

OK, stupid me, I didn't see that Lawfer isn't available in easy mode...

Looking through, it seems that Belenus and Janus are the only particularly good fighters available in Easy. Belenus is good because his PWS is among the stronger ones...however, it doesn't build much meter so you need to use it first or last I think. His normal attacks aren't that great, either. Janus is interesting because of the Raven Slayer and his ability to poison enemies...I'd probably go with him.

Lenneth/Arngrim/Janus/Jelanda...yeah, that sounds good. Another plus of Janus is that his normal attacks deliver a high number of hits compared to the other candidates, so he'll help in adding damage (each hit in a combo makes the next one 1% more powerful) and collecting crystals/gems/treasure chests. Say, do any monsters drop anything REALLY helpful from chests? That could be worth looking into...

-Josh

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-06 07:48:05 am

spread the dirt to the populace

OK, sorry for the triple post, I just registered now so no more...

How are we going to keep a decent evaluation throughout the game? Don't you need to transfer characters? And could you afford to take artifacts from optional dungeons, or not?

Also, looking through Gamefaqs, Captain K's giant FAQ is surprisingly accurate when it comes to character evaluations, infinitely better than the "character FAQs". I think he underrates Arngrim and overestimates the differences between mages, but he actually realizes how good Belenus is and how utterly BROKEN Lawfer is. Just to let you all know that I am indeed not making any of this up. =)

And one more Q, sword or bow for Lenneth? I recall her being better with bows, as she delivers a lot more hits with everything and her PWS builds more meter.

Alright, I think that's all for tonight...

-Josh

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-06 09:38:36 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

Started a practice run of Easy mode. Right now I'm at 15:54 at the first save point (in the middle of the Arngrim/Jelanda segment). The only way this could be improved is if the harpy never guards your attacks...he did this for one round in my run.

And yes, any run of this game is going to be heavily segmented. There's just so much random stuff that can go wrong.

I've been looking into Captain K's guide a bit more...there's actually a list of the base damages of each PWS, and it confirms what I've been saying all along. Lawfer's is higher than BRAHMS'S, even (didn't expect that). And it also confirms my suspicion that bows > swords for Valkyrie, so I'll get one for her ASAP.

Also, looking ahead to the first dungeon, Freya's normal attack is actually better if you remove her weapon. And after the boss, you can pick up the Grimrist sword which causes instant death to Lightning-elemental enemies; I figure I'll take it, as the other artifact is useless so I can send that one to Odin after keeping Grimrist.

-Josh

Started a practice run of Easy mode.  Right now I'm at 15:54 at the first save point (in the middle of the Arngrim/Jelanda segment).  The only way this could be improved is if the harpy never guards your attacks...he did this for one round in my run.

And yes, any run of this game is going to be heavily segmented.  There's just so much random stuff that can go wrong.

I've been looking into Captain K's guide a bit more...there's actually a list of the base damages of each PWS, and it confirms what I've been saying all along.  Lawfer's is higher than BRAHMS'S, even (didn't expect that).  And it also confirms my suspicion that bows > swords for Valkyrie, so I'll get one for her ASAP.

Also, looking ahead to the first dungeon, Freya's normal attack is actually better if you remove her weapon.  And after the boss, you can pick up the Grimrist sword which causes instant death to Lightning-elemental enemies; I figure I'll take it, as the other artifact is useless so I can send that one to Odin after keeping Grimrist.

-Josh

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-06 11:39:02 pm

spread the dirt to the populace

38:05 at the start of Chapter 1, could be improved by a few seconds maybe. I forgot Freya isn't in this boss battle, so I didn't bother with any of her equipment. I did make some Elixirs and a Hack-Blade for Arngrim, and I took the Grimrist like I said (actually kills enemies WEAK TO lightning, I goofed). Thing that concerns me is Union Plumes, I'll probably need a lot of those and they are EXPENSIVE.

Janus isn't appearing in Chapter 2 in this game, so I'll just take Belenus this time and see how it goes. I'm not sure about going to the Forest of Woe...Phoenix Feather will reduce the need for Union Plumes, which is nice, but there appears to be nothing else of much value there.

Also, I am questioning whether the Dragon Slayer is really worth it. All types of Dragon Zombies except one die to the Grimrist, as well as the boss of Dragoncastle Caverns.

Hmm...more testing to do.

-Josh

Josh the Funkdoc

Edit history:

Josh the Funkdoc: 2005-07-07 02:39:50 am

2005-07-07 02:14:46 am

spread the dirt to the populace

45:20 at the start of Chapter 2. The only thing I did in Chapter 1 was recruit Belenus, but unfortunately I had to go through the Spiritual Concentration for Llewellewwelyn before that. I skipped the Forest of Woe, we'll see whether or not that turns out to be a mistake. BTW, Belenus's recuitment segment is actually quite short, as almost all the dialogue is skippable, so that turned out to be a plus.

So, now...Dragoncastle Caverns actually doesn't look to have too much useful stuff in it, either. Thus far the Caves of Oblivion have been useless (they're fixed in Easy mode, and I already tested both Chapter 1 and 2's), we'll see if that continues.

Gorhia Cult in Chapter 3 has Guts, and Black Dream Tower in Chapter 4 has Auto-Item (also an enemy who can drop Sap Guard), so I definitely have to go to those two places. Just not sure whether I should only get the skills or complete the whole dungeons...

I'm also debating how much of my MP should be spent on weapons. Arngrim's Elemental Edge is a definite buy, as it only costs 1000 and increases his PWS damage by 30%, and I'm considering the Supreme Crossbow (remember, Valkyrie needs a good bow) but it costs 2000.

Hmm...

Oh yes, and my Evaluation is already down to 71. Looks like I'm going to HAVE to recruit characters and send them up at some point. =/

I'm seriously thinking about skipping Chapter 2 altogether, as the dungeon doesn't look very useful and the only available recruit is Yumei (whose recruitment segment takes FOREVER). Then we'll see which characters come up in Chapter 3. Sending someone in Chapter 4 can get you Spell Reinforce, doing so in Chapter 5 can earn you Poison Blow (which will help out a LOT in the last dungeon), and in Chapter 7 you can get Might Reinforce (seems like this is the earliest point it's available, unless another mage starts with it or something).

-Josh

45:20 at the start of Chapter 2.  The only thing I did in Chapter 1 was recruit Belenus, but unfortunately I had to go through the Spiritual Concentration for Llewellewwelyn before that.  I skipped the Forest of Woe, we'll see whether or not that turns out to be a mistake.  BTW, Belenus's recuitment segment is actually quite short, as almost all the dialogue is skippable, so that turned out to be a plus.

So, now...Dragoncastle Caverns actually doesn't look to have too much useful stuff in it, either.  Thus far the Caves of Oblivion have been useless (they're fixed in Easy mode, and I already tested both Chapter 1 and 2's), we'll see if that continues.

Gorhia Cult in Chapter 3 has Guts, and Black Dream Tower in Chapter 4 has Auto-Item (also an enemy who can drop Sap Guard), so I definitely have to go to those two places.  Just not sure whether I should only get the skills or complete the whole dungeons...

I'm also debating how much of my MP should be spent on weapons.  Arngrim's Elemental Edge is a definite buy, as it only costs 1000 and increases his PWS damage by 30%, and I'm considering the Supreme Crossbow (remember, Valkyrie needs a good bow) but it costs 2000.

Hmm...

Oh yes, and my Evaluation is already down to 71.  Looks like I'm going to HAVE to recruit characters and send them up at some point. =/

I'm seriously thinking about skipping Chapter 2 altogether, as the dungeon doesn't look very useful and the only available recruit is Yumei (whose recruitment segment takes FOREVER).  Then we'll see which characters come up in Chapter 3.  Sending someone in Chapter 4 can get you Spell Reinforce, doing so in Chapter 5 can earn you Poison Blow (which will help out a LOT in the last dungeon), and in Chapter 7 you can get Might Reinforce (seems like this is the earliest point it's available, unless another mage starts with it or something).

-Josh

SSJ Hibiki

2005-07-07 07:20:46 am

Hey, Josh! Remember when we broke that Valkyrie Fight game to pieces? 8) Where have you been? My new AIM is SSJ Hibiki if you want to chat Wink

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-07 09:55:10 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Heeeeey...now that I think about it, didn't you post something to me in Bisqwit's forum also? Anyway, been busy lately (have a real job now), but found the time to work on this.

And how could I forget Valkyrie Fight? Tag was awesome, I just loved divekick whoring with Aelia. And those Japanese match vids rocked it...

For everyone else out there, there's actually been no progress since last post. Still planning future stuff...

-Josh

SSJ Hibiki

2005-07-07 10:44:12 am

Yeah, I posted there too. You just kind of... disappeared so I wanted to see what was up. That Space Mutiny avatar is great, BTW. My email is ssjyoda@yahoo.com

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-08 12:46:35 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Been doing some more work. I'm at Chapter 4 at a little over an hour. I still haven't transferred anyone yet so my evaluation is all the way down to 18...but I got both Nanami and Jun in Chapter 3. I will send Jelanda this chapter and Jun in the next one...this will give me Mystic Cross and Poison Blow, the two must-have offensive spells. I plan on getting Shiho, keeping her, and sending Nanami in Chapter 7...that should be enough to keep me from getting the C ending.

In Gorhia Cult, I just got Guts and ran right back out. I'll do the same with Auto-Item in Black Dream Tower (though I might try to knock a Sap Guard out of the enemies there). Still not sure what to do about leveling...I recall the enemies in Jotunheim dying to Poison Blow, so hopefully I'll be able to leech off of them. Dragon Zombies are also an option of course, if I can ever frickin' FIND them.

-Josh

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-08 05:40:25 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Alright people, I need to buy a blank tape and then I'll start a real run.

Just to give y'all a hint, I may be able to get under an hour and a half in game time. Seriously.

-Josh

Tetsuo9999

2005-07-08 06:24:01 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I STILL haven't gotten my hands on this game... even though it's been about 3 years since you told me about it's greatness. Gamecrazy does special orders but has VP on it's exclusion list since it's so had to find :-/ I guess I'll have to resort to an emulator or something.

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-08 07:35:08 am

spread the dirt to the populace

I'd look for it on Ebay or what have you, it is worth it (I hear prices are getting up there though...I was lucky and bought it when it was still new *shrug*). The more I play, the more I realize that it is truly my single favorite game since the 16-bit era, period.

Hopefully tomorrow I can get a tape and start this...I'm thinking it should definitely be under 2 hours in real time (the intro isn't considered part of the game time, and it's pretty long).

After I get it done, I'll work on figuring out a strategy for a Normal mode, A ending run. This will be quite a bit longer because of a bunch of extra stuff I need to do to get that ending. On the plus side, I'll have access to Lawfer (the most broken fighter in the normal game) and the Creation Jewel. On the downside, I'll have to fight three bosses at the end who are all harder than the last boss of the B ending route.

-Josh

Tetsuo9999

2005-07-08 09:17:40 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Wow, you're right. It's going for 60 bucks at the cheapest, which is totally out of my budget. I'll have to check if PSX emulators run it now or not. Anyway, I'll be on AIM if you're free this weekend. I might need help with the game Wink

Josh the Funkdoc

Edit history:

Josh the Funkdoc: 2005-07-10 01:56:55 am

2005-07-10 01:54:45 am

spread the dirt to the populace

This will seriously impress anyone who's played this game, I tell you...I just did another test run with a much, MUCH better strategy and it all worked out as planned.

Looking at it further, though, it seems like it'll be pretty close as to whether or not this will all fit on a 2-hour tape (the last boss takes quite awhile). One thing I wonder, do you HAVE to include the ending on the tape? If you do then this will certainly be over 2 hours, but without it I think I can get under that.

-Josh

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-07-11 04:55:33 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Well, I can't get the VCR and PS2 working together either on my TV or the one in the basement, so that's the last hurdle left before I can get to this. *shrug*

-Josh

Tetsuo9999

2005-07-12 11:30:39 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Maybe you could try an AV selector. You can get an Intec one for 10 bucks at most game retailers. It plugs into the cable in the back of the TV, eliminating the need for AV ports on the TV or the VCR. I haven't done any taped runs yet (planning on doing some Megaman Zero 3 ones soon though), but you might want to try this.

Enhasa

2005-08-29 04:04:46 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Hey, it's Josh! I admire the work you do on bisqwit's.

To this thread, OMG, how did I miss this? Well, unlike my FF2 thread, where it went to 4 pages and I only eventually noticed when a finished run was posted to the main page =(, at least I caught this one before it went that far.

Yeah, the Valkyrie Fight games were pretty cool too, even if they had that unbalanced fangame "charm." But where are these Japanese vids you speak of?

I'm gonna go ahead and post this, and reply later with specific comments after I've actually had time to read the thread.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2005-08-29 05:26:14 pm

2005-08-29 05:21:05 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Since I made my original post way back saying favorite game on PS1, I have come to realize that this is probably my favorite game of any era. It's not perfect, but I can't think of any game that couldn't be improved.

About Lawfer: I was under the impression that most people knew he was sick. Lenneth/Arngrim/Lawfer/Gandar is a very good team on Hard mode because you get to take advantage of bows and heavy swords, which are usually the better weapon classes. On Normal and Easy, Gandar would be replaced by another mage, either Mystina or Jelanda (I go with Mystina) since your guys don't start at level 1. On Easy, Lawfer would be replaced by Janus (although you do run into the difficulty of finding enough good bows, all the other good characters aren't in Easy) and the mage would be Jelanda. This is for the 3 attacker/1 mage with Sap Guard/Might Reinforce. I personally am a fan of the Valkyrie/3 mage with Spell Reinforce party. You get all the support spells you could ever want, which are really good in this game, you own groups of enemies, when someone has a weakness you utterly maul their face, staffs and mage robes are ridiculous for good portions of the game, and you get around the charge times with Wait Reaction early and Mental Reaction/charge breaks later on. The main negatives are a couple fights are harder due to magic resistance (the 2 Hel Servants definitely comes to mind), and it's probably less fun using fewer warriors. I think an Easy run would have 3 fighters and a Hard run would have 3 mages. The difference is mostly in who is required to join your party, because like I said, 2 fighters/2 mages is suboptimal.

Janus is who I would go with, over Belenus, because the difference between the Raver Slayer and the Pressed Flower is not very fair. I typically go for either crystals or gems playing normally, but I think getting crystals whenever possible is probably best for a speedrun.

About evaluation, you can actually go all the way down to 0 without problem, meaning you can avoid recruiting and transfer and take all the artifacts you want. And even then, to trigger the C ending, you need to enter a dungeon and leave it. I'm 95% sure you can just go down to 0 and still get the B ending, since the game automatically takes you to Jotunheim. For an A ending, you obviously can't be at 0 for certain locations that you have to go to near the end of the game, Weeping Lily Meadow for one. However, I don't think there's any harm in being at any number above 0, which could best be done by transferring up an artifact. Of course, the main issue with evaluation is that you get worse items from Odin and less MP during the Sacred Phases. In a speedrun, I think that still outweighs the time it takes to recruit people.

Captain K's FAQ is the only one I look at. He gives all the mages 4 stars, so I wouldn't say he is overrating their differences. Arngrim is good mostly because heavy swords are good in general, but you can't separate the characters from the context. Wink

(Side note, people typically click on either the most specialized FAQ or the one with the biggest file size, but definitely the best heuristic tends to be the one that has been updated most recently. You can't fake committment.) Definitely bows for Lenneth, although with Janus that spreads the bows rather thin. You only want to use swords with Lenneth with certain good ones, like Gram or the Angel Slayer.

The main use for heavy segmentation is to be able to use the best weapons all the time and reset if they break, and also getting the best items possible from Sacred Phases.

Yeah, you don't actually get to fight with Freya in a speedrun. =/ And yeah, the Grimrist being strong against Lightning is important because a lot of enemies early on, namely Dragon Zombies, are weak to it. The Dragon Slayer is still good, I think, because it has good stats for the time.

I think skipping the Phoenix Feather is correct, as since there is only one in the game, you can't really rely on it.

Caves of Oblivion are for gaining XP quickly from Dragon Zombies.

You can get Guts and Auto-Item from Sacred Phases, but I don't know with the low evaluation how feasible that is. I don't think it's that hard though, and being able to skip Spiritual Concentration and popping into dungeons makes it worth it if possible. Only if it doesn't involve extra recruiting, of course.

I definitely wouldn't fight any regular enemies for drops.

Complete dungeons if and only if the boss dies in one turn.

As with any low-level run, most of your money (MP) is gonna be spent on recovery items. On a B ending run, I don't anticipate much fighting with non-uberbosskill weapons until Jotunheim, so I would just save up and splurge on armor when it becomes available in Chapter 6 and weapons in Chapter 7.

Yep, Yumei's recruitment scene is awesome for normal playing, awful for speed.

About the 1:30 game time: my original predicting for B ending was around 1:00-1:30, so sounds good.

To Tetsuo: I know this is THE most expensive (originally $50) game out there, but trust me, this game is worth it. I drove several hours round trip to get my own copy (I had already borrowed and played it) for $50 with no case, manual, etc.

Please include the ending, even if you need to use 2 tapes, because many people have not played this game and might like to see the ending. Also, some people (my brother for one) have only seen the A ending. It would also be silly to do a B ending run and an A ending run... without the endings. =p Typically I am against speedruns with plot or endings, but I know how rare and expensive VP is.

Anyway, I read through all that to find out you have a better strategy now. Wink

Do you have any details? What are your levels, who did you fight, who did you recruit, and so forth. I also just realized nobody mentioned which skills to pick up, so I was wondering which ones you did. Auto-Item and Guts should be obvious, but in addition I'm assuming the damaging ones like Charge and Reverie, although I don't remember which skills you can't get on Easy. I do remember that on a normal playthrough, the whole mechanic of which skills you can get and in which order changes based on difficulty setting.

Ok, I'm really looking forward to this, and this time, I might have more input than just the initial post. Wink

Edit: one last thing to add. Have you considered actually not recruiting a 4th and just using Valkyrie/Arngrim/Jelanda? I don't know how much time recruiting takes or if you're gonna need to transfer anybody or if it would be slower/not possible to defeat Surt this way, but I'm throwing this out there as a possibility.

Since I made my original post way back saying favorite game on PS1, I have come to realize that this is probably my favorite game of any era. It's not perfect, but I can't think of any game that couldn't be improved.

About Lawfer: I was under the impression that most people knew he was sick. Lenneth/Arngrim/Lawfer/Gandar is a very good team on Hard mode because you get to take advantage of bows and heavy swords, which are usually the better weapon classes. On Normal and Easy, Gandar would be replaced by another mage, either Mystina or Jelanda (I go with Mystina) since your guys don't start at level 1. On Easy, Lawfer would be replaced by Janus (although you do run into the difficulty of finding enough good bows, all the other good characters aren't in Easy) and the mage would be Jelanda. This is for the 3 attacker/1 mage with Sap Guard/Might Reinforce. I personally am a fan of the Valkyrie/3 mage with Spell Reinforce party. You get all the support spells you could ever want, which are really good in this game, you own groups of enemies, when someone has a weakness you utterly maul their face, staffs and mage robes are ridiculous for good portions of the game, and you get around the charge times with Wait Reaction early and Mental Reaction/charge breaks later on. The main negatives are a couple fights are harder due to magic resistance (the 2 Hel Servants definitely comes to mind), and it's probably less fun using fewer warriors. I think an Easy run would have 3 fighters and a Hard run would have 3 mages. The difference is mostly in who is required to join your party, because like I said, 2 fighters/2 mages is suboptimal.

Janus is who I would go with, over Belenus, because the difference between the Raver Slayer and the Pressed Flower is not very fair. I typically go for either crystals or gems playing normally, but I think getting crystals whenever possible is probably best for a speedrun.

About evaluation, you can actually go all the way down to 0 without problem, meaning you can avoid recruiting and transfer and take all the artifacts you want. And even then, to trigger the C ending, you need to enter a dungeon and leave it. I'm 95% sure you can just go down to 0 and still get the B ending, since the game automatically takes you to Jotunheim. For an A ending, you obviously can't be at 0 for certain locations that you have to go to near the end of the game, Weeping Lily Meadow for one. However, I don't think there's any harm in being at any number above 0, which could best be done by transferring up an artifact. Of course, the main issue with evaluation is that you get worse items from Odin and less MP during the Sacred Phases. In a speedrun, I think that still outweighs the time it takes to recruit people.

Captain K's FAQ is the only one I look at. He gives all the mages 4 stars, so I wouldn't say he is overrating their differences. Arngrim is good mostly because heavy swords are good in general, but you can't separate the characters from the context. ;) (Side note, people typically click on either the most specialized FAQ or the one with the biggest file size, but definitely the best heuristic tends to be the one that has been updated most recently. You can't fake committment.) Definitely bows for Lenneth, although with Janus that spreads the bows rather thin. You only want to use swords with Lenneth with certain good ones, like Gram or the Angel Slayer.

The main use for heavy segmentation is to be able to use the best weapons all the time and reset if they break, and also getting the best items possible from Sacred Phases.

Yeah, you don't actually get to fight with Freya in a speedrun. =/ And yeah, the Grimrist being [i]strong[/i] against Lightning is important because a lot of enemies early on, namely Dragon Zombies, are weak to it. The Dragon Slayer is still good, I think, because it has good stats for the time.

I think skipping the Phoenix Feather is correct, as since there is only one in the game, you can't really rely on it.

Caves of Oblivion are for gaining XP quickly from Dragon Zombies.

You can get Guts and Auto-Item from Sacred Phases, but I don't know with the low evaluation how feasible that is. I don't think it's that hard though, and being able to skip Spiritual Concentration and popping into dungeons makes it worth it if possible. Only if it doesn't involve extra recruiting, of course.

I definitely wouldn't fight any regular enemies for drops.

Complete dungeons if and only if the boss dies in one turn.

As with any low-level run, most of your money (MP) is gonna be spent on recovery items. On a B ending run, I don't anticipate much fighting with non-uberbosskill weapons until Jotunheim, so I would just save up and splurge on armor when it becomes available in Chapter 6 and weapons in Chapter 7.

Yep, Yumei's recruitment scene is awesome for normal playing, awful for speed.

About the 1:30 game time: my original predicting for B ending was around 1:00-1:30, so sounds good.

To Tetsuo: I know this is THE most expensive (originally $50) game out there, but trust me, this game is worth it. I drove several hours round trip to get my own copy (I had already borrowed and played it) for $50 with no case, manual, etc.

Please include the ending, even if you need to use 2 tapes, because many people have not played this game and might like to see the ending. Also, some people (my brother for one) have only seen the A ending. It would also be silly to do a B ending run and an A ending run... without the endings. =p Typically I am against speedruns with plot or endings, but I know how rare and expensive VP is.

Anyway, I read through all that to find out you have a better strategy now. ;) Do you have any details? What are your levels, who did you fight, who did you recruit, and so forth. I also just realized nobody mentioned which skills to pick up, so I was wondering which ones you did. Auto-Item and Guts should be obvious, but in addition I'm assuming the damaging ones like Charge and Reverie, although I don't remember which skills you can't get on Easy. I do remember that on a normal playthrough, the whole mechanic of which skills you can get and in which order changes based on difficulty setting.

Ok, I'm really looking forward to this, and this time, I might have more input than just the initial post. ;)

Edit: one last thing to add. Have you considered actually not recruiting a 4th and just using Valkyrie/Arngrim/Jelanda? I don't know how much time recruiting takes or if you're gonna need to transfer anybody or if it would be slower/not possible to defeat Surt this way, but I'm throwing this out there as a possibility.

Josh the Funkdoc

Edit history:

Josh the Funkdoc: 2005-09-14 05:45:49 am

2005-09-14 05:42:03 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Heeeeey, actual replies woot, didn't see this for a LONG time.

Well, things have been busy for me lately so I haven't gotten the VCR thing worked out.

Here is what all I remember of my strategy for Easy mode:

- Get through intro crap and first dungeon. Avoid all fights in the dungeon except the boss. The dragons should die to one guard break combo each, and the boss dies to one combo. Skip the artifacts...Grimrist turned out to be worthless.

- Recruit Belenus. His segment is fairly quick, and he's a real powerhouse by Easy mode standards.

- Skip the rest of Chapter 1, and all of Chapter 2.

- In Chapter 3, go to Gorhia Cult, get Guts, and run back out. Skip the rest of the chapter.

- In Chapter 4, go to the Black Dream Tower, pick up Auto Item, then leave. Use the Exp. Orb to level up Jelanda, then raise her Hero Value as high as possible, give her Angel Lips, and transfer her. Skip the rest of the chapter, and at the end you should get Mystic Cross for sending her.

- In Chapter 5, divine 20 Halberds and turn them all into Poison Crystals. Visit the Arkdain ruins, and get Sap Power from an early chest. Use a Poison Crystal to kill the monsters in there, then run back out. Also, recruit Shiho if she pops up here, otherwise skip the chapter.

- In Chapter 6, get Shiho if she didn't come up before, skip everything else.

- Skip all of Chapters 7 and 8.

- In Jotunheim, just take the straight path through. Kill all the weak Vanir/Wise Sorcerors you find along the way, as they all die to one or two Poison Crystals, and stay away from the buff Vanir as they aren't worth the time. This is where all your leveling up comes from. As for the Mithril Golem, is there a way to avoid him altogether? As is I just encounter him and run away, as the experience isn't worth the time.

- Before the battle with Surt, it's menu time! Divine the Last Avenger for Valkyrie, the Valkyrie-Favor for Belenus, and the Bahamut Tear for Arngrim, and give Shiho an Ether Scepter (Odin gives you a few no matter how much you piss him off =P). Give everyone the best available armor, and teach everyone Guts and Auto Item. Turn your Sap Power into Sap Guard, and teach that to Shiho along with Mystic Cross. I also max out Survival for everyone just to be safe. And finally, get everyone some accessories...I get the one that reduces CT, and the ones that increase attack and magic. This is the only part I'm not sure about, could you possibly stack the attack and magic increases? BTW, believe it or not, you WILL end up having enough MP for this, but just barely.

- Kill the Vanir with Poison Crystals, then use all your support spells and kick Surt's ass with combos.

Now, to answer some questions...

I get Belenus because Extreme Void deals sick damage for Easy mode. With the Valkyrie-Favor, he's definitely worth it.

Here's why I get Shiho. Basically, if you don't transfer someone before Chapter 5, you'll get the bad ending if you enter a dungeon before Jotunheim. You also won't be able to get Mystic Cross. So, if you keep Jelanda and don't send anyone, you'll be stuck with the crappy Fire Storm and no support spells for the last battle.

I get Shiho because her segment isn't long and she has Might Reinforce, which is almost impossible to get otherwise.

Now, I do believe there are enemies early on that might drop some of these spells. However, this run will be SINGLE-SEGMENT if I ever do it. Yes, seriously, it is indeed possible. So this strategy is geared to minimize luck. That's also why I get armor and max out Survival, I can't afford to take chances at the end.

All told, under 2 hours in real time is likely possible (don't forget, the game timer doesn't count the intro).

I think that's about it...

-Josh

Heeeeey, actual replies woot, didn't see this for a LONG time.

Well, things have been busy for me lately so I haven't gotten the VCR thing worked out.

Here is what all I remember of my strategy for Easy mode:

- Get through intro crap and first dungeon.  Avoid all fights in the dungeon except the boss.  The dragons should die to one guard break combo each, and the boss dies to one combo.  Skip the artifacts...Grimrist turned out to be worthless.

- Recruit Belenus.  His segment is fairly quick, and he's a real powerhouse by Easy mode standards.

- Skip the rest of Chapter 1, and all of Chapter 2.

- In Chapter 3, go to Gorhia Cult, get Guts, and run back out.  Skip the rest of the chapter.

- In Chapter 4, go to the Black Dream Tower, pick up Auto Item, then leave.  Use the Exp. Orb to level up Jelanda, then raise her Hero Value as high as possible, give her Angel Lips, and transfer her.  Skip the rest of the chapter, and at the end you should get Mystic Cross for sending her.

- In Chapter 5, divine 20 Halberds and turn them all into Poison Crystals.  Visit the Arkdain ruins, and get Sap Power from an early chest.  Use a Poison Crystal to kill the monsters in there, then run back out.  Also, recruit Shiho if she pops up here, otherwise skip the chapter.

- In Chapter 6, get Shiho if she didn't come up before, skip everything else.

- Skip all of Chapters 7 and 8.

- In Jotunheim, just take the straight path through.  Kill all the weak Vanir/Wise Sorcerors you find along the way, as they all die to one or two Poison Crystals, and stay away from the buff Vanir as they aren't worth the time.  This is where all your leveling up comes from.  As for the Mithril Golem, is there a way to avoid him altogether?  As is I just encounter him and run away, as the experience isn't worth the time.

- Before the battle with Surt, it's menu time!  Divine the Last Avenger for Valkyrie, the Valkyrie-Favor for Belenus, and the Bahamut Tear for Arngrim, and give Shiho an Ether Scepter (Odin gives you a few no matter how much you piss him off =P).  Give everyone the best available armor, and teach everyone Guts and Auto Item.  Turn your Sap Power into Sap Guard, and teach that to Shiho along with Mystic Cross.  I also max out Survival for everyone just to be safe.  And finally, get everyone some accessories...I get the one that reduces CT, and the ones that increase attack and magic.  This is the only part I'm not sure about, could you possibly stack the attack and magic increases?  BTW, believe it or not, you WILL end up having enough MP for this, but just barely.

- Kill the Vanir with Poison Crystals, then use all your support spells and kick Surt's ass with combos.

Now, to answer some questions...

I get Belenus because Extreme Void deals sick damage for Easy mode.  With the Valkyrie-Favor, he's definitely worth it.

Here's why I get Shiho.  Basically, if you don't transfer someone before Chapter 5, you'll get the bad ending if you enter a dungeon before Jotunheim.  You also won't be able to get Mystic Cross.  So, if you keep Jelanda and don't send anyone, you'll be stuck with the crappy Fire Storm and no support spells for the last battle.

I get Shiho because her segment isn't long and she has Might Reinforce, which is almost impossible to get otherwise.

Now, I do believe there are enemies early on that might drop some of these spells.  However, this run will be SINGLE-SEGMENT if I ever do it.  Yes, seriously, it is indeed possible.  So this strategy is geared to minimize luck.  That's also why I get armor and max out Survival, I can't afford to take chances at the end.

All told, under 2 hours in real time is likely possible (don't forget, the game timer doesn't count the intro).

I think that's about it...

-Josh

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-09-20 05:40:33 am

bump

Enhasa

2005-09-27 02:56:31 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Your strategy looks very solid. I suppose when you get a respected TAS'er to try speedrunning, you know the details will certainly be there.

Assuming that Vanir give a lot more experience than Dragon Zombies and such (a very reasonable assumption I would think), I don't know what I was thinking with Dragon Zombies, Raven Slayer, etc. I mean, I am the guy who always wants to level up as late in a game as possible, as in FF2.

I checked Captain K's FAQ, and it does seem like you have the most streamlined way to get Auto-Item, Guts, Might Reinforce, etc. Other chapters to consider sending up are chapter 5 (for Poison Blow, I don't know how that compares to Mystic Cross vs Surt) and chapter 7 (Sacred Javelin -> Mystic Cross, Might Reinforce). Of course, it might not be worth making that Sap Power/Sap Guard/Dampen Magic harder to get. I really don't see a way to keep Jelanda and make her useful in a SS, like you said.

Do you really need to Exp Orb up Jelanda? Max Hero Value and Angel Lips aren't enough?

I don't know what "Use a Poison Crystal to kill the monsters in there, then run back out." means in chapter 5. If it's a trapped chest, you still don't have to fight the enemies; you can just run and get the contents anyway. If it's for XP, Vanir in chapter 8 is better.

I don't remember the Mithril Golem you're talking about, but if he is just huge and stands in the way, and there's nothing that can be done with crystals, I don't think there is a way around him. And I guess there is no way to do the Fires of Purgatory part without bumping into those enemies and running?

As for menu time, I'm not sold on Survival, since Auto-Item/Guts is really all you should need. Risk shouldn't really be an issue since we are going for the best run possible. For Arngrim, Valkyrie, and Belenus, I think some sort of offensive skill would probably be better (don't know your CP situation). Charge (from Scarlet Edge in Jotunheim) seems like it would be good, or maybe Attack Pow (although I'm not sure where you would get this).

Now for Shiho, I am apparently the only person who thinks this, but I am convinced that Mental Reaction (early in Jotunheim) is really good. Not as good as in a 3 mage party, but I still like it here. Shiho would start the Surt fight with Sap Guard, then Might Reinforce, and then a cycle of Mental Reaction followed by Mystic Cross. I don't know if a couple of Charge Breaks would be useful or not, but mages can't use items while they are recovering, so it would waste someone else's turn.

I don't remember how much CT everyone's PWS uses, but if the Fairy Ring reduces it to every other turn like I think it does for Valkyrie, I would go with that. Otherwise, I would buy some Charge Breaks. I honestly don't remember if Magic/Power Bangles stack (I remember testing, just not the result heh), but if they do, I suggest 2 Magic Bangles for Shiho, and 1-2 Power Bangles for the rest, depending on if the Fairy Ring is useful. If they don't stack, I don't know what to use to replace the Bracelet of Zoe from chapter 4 that you've probably had on Shiho the entire time.

Radix typically doesn't count the intro either. I think it could start whenever you get control in the Artolian Mountain Ruins, although maybe it would be counted from fighting the Lesser Harpy.

One last thing I wanted to bring up: using PWS's takes quite a bit of time, but I think it is safe to assume that the amount of damage done is worth it?

Thanks so much for working on this. Just don't even think of abandoning it like people have for their runs of certain other... lesser games. Wink

Your strategy looks very solid. I suppose when you get a respected TAS'er to try speedrunning, you know the details will certainly be there.

Assuming that Vanir give a lot more experience than Dragon Zombies and such (a very reasonable assumption I would think), I don't know what I was thinking with Dragon Zombies, Raven Slayer, etc. I mean, I am the guy who always wants to level up as late in a game as possible, as in FF2.

I checked Captain K's FAQ, and it does seem like you have the most streamlined way to get Auto-Item, Guts, Might Reinforce, etc. Other chapters to consider sending up are chapter 5 (for Poison Blow, I don't know how that compares to Mystic Cross vs Surt) and chapter 7 (Sacred Javelin -> Mystic Cross, Might Reinforce). Of course, it might not be worth making that Sap Power/Sap Guard/Dampen Magic harder to get. I really don't see a way to keep Jelanda and make her useful in a SS, like you said.

Do you really need to Exp Orb up Jelanda? Max Hero Value and Angel Lips aren't enough?

I don't know what "Use a Poison Crystal to kill the monsters in there, then run back out." means in chapter 5. If it's a trapped chest, you still don't have to fight the enemies; you can just run and get the contents anyway. If it's for XP, Vanir in chapter 8 is better.

I don't remember the Mithril Golem you're talking about, but if he is just huge and stands in the way, and there's nothing that can be done with crystals, I don't think there is a way around him. And I guess there is no way to do the Fires of Purgatory part without bumping into those enemies and running?

As for menu time, I'm not sold on Survival, since Auto-Item/Guts is really all you should need. Risk shouldn't really be an issue since we are going for the best run possible. For Arngrim, Valkyrie, and Belenus, I think some sort of offensive skill would probably be better (don't know your CP situation). Charge (from Scarlet Edge in Jotunheim) seems like it would be good, or maybe Attack Pow (although I'm not sure where you would get this).

Now for Shiho, I am apparently the only person who thinks this, but I am convinced that Mental Reaction (early in Jotunheim) is really good. Not as good as in a 3 mage party, but I still like it here. Shiho would start the Surt fight with Sap Guard, then Might Reinforce, and then a cycle of Mental Reaction followed by Mystic Cross. I don't know if a couple of Charge Breaks would be useful or not, but mages can't use items while they are recovering, so it would waste someone else's turn.

I don't remember how much CT everyone's PWS uses, but if the Fairy Ring reduces it to every other turn like I think it does for Valkyrie, I would go with that. Otherwise, I would buy some Charge Breaks. I honestly don't remember if Magic/Power Bangles stack (I remember testing, just not the result heh), but if they do, I suggest 2 Magic Bangles for Shiho, and 1-2 Power Bangles for the rest, depending on if the Fairy Ring is useful. If they don't stack, I don't know what to use to replace the Bracelet of Zoe from chapter 4 that you've probably had on Shiho the entire time.

Radix typically doesn't count the intro either. I think it could start whenever you get control in the Artolian Mountain Ruins, although maybe it would be counted from fighting the Lesser Harpy.

One last thing I wanted to bring up: using PWS's takes quite a bit of time, but I think it is safe to assume that the amount of damage done is worth it?

Thanks so much for working on this. Just don't even think of abandoning it like people have for their runs of certain other... lesser games. ;)

Josh the Funkdoc

2005-09-27 06:14:16 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Hey, thanks for the reply! I'll address your questions right now...

Quote:

I checked Captain K's FAQ, and it does seem like you have the most streamlined way to get Auto-Item, Guts, Might Reinforce, etc. Other chapters to consider sending up are chapter 5 (for Poison Blow, I don't know how that compares to Mystic Cross vs Surt) and chapter 7 (Sacred Javelin -> Mystic Cross, Might Reinforce). Of course, it might not be worth making that Sap Power/Sap Guard/Dampen Magic harder to get. I really don't see a way to keep Jelanda and make her useful in a SS, like you said.

Poison Blow? Nah. Celestial Star is the strongest spell in the game, this is proven fact. Plus Jelanda fits Chapter 4's requirements quite well. As for Chapter 7, the problem is that a high level would be required, and I just don't know a good way to do that in a single segment. I'd have to recruit someone else and send them up earlier, so as to be able to enter a dungeon without getting the bad ending. That seems like a time-waster to me...

Quote:

Do you really need to Exp Orb up Jelanda? Max Hero Value and Angel Lips aren't enough?

Yes, I tested this. You need to level her up, max out her hero value with the extra CP, AND give her multiple angel lips (forget if it's 2 or 3, I know 1 isn't enough) in order to get Mystic Cross. Plus it gives you some extra MP which is needed in the last dungeon.

Quote:

I don't know what "Use a Poison Crystal to kill the monsters in there, then run back out." means in chapter 5. If it's a trapped chest, you still don't have to fight the enemies; you can just run and get the contents anyway. If it's for XP, Vanir in chapter 8 is better.

It's a trapped chest, yes. I don't like to risk running away because if it's unsuccessful it wastes a bunch of time. The Mithril Golem is different because he takes forever to kill.

Quote:

And I guess there is no way to do the Fires of Purgatory part without bumping into those enemies and running?

Unfortunately, you're half right. You can dodge them on the way there, but not on the way back. And actually, I kill them with poison crystals...not a whole lot of time, gives XP, and if running doesn't work it costs a whole bunch of time.

As for skills, you're probably right, I'll look into this more. Same for Mental Reaction and accessories.

Quote:

One last thing I wanted to bring up: using PWS's takes quite a bit of time, but I think it is safe to assume that the amount of damage done is worth it?

Of course! I was actually wondering about Celestial Star since that takes a REALLY long time, and tested that and the normal Mystic Cross; even with the risk of Ether Scepters breaking, Celestial Star is clearly worth it.

Quote:

Thanks so much for working on this. Just don't even think of abandoning it like people have for their runs of certain other... lesser games. Wink

Well, thank you. I now have a link to buy something for the VCR, so hopefully I can get this done eventually. Makes me feel good to see someone else appreciate this game so much...as far as I'm concerned it ranks only below Chrono Trigger among RPGs.

I've been thinking about a Normal run as well, as that would be far more enjoyable to watch. MUCH more difficult to plan though, the Lezard fight is what's worrying me...but that's for another time.

-Josh

Hey, thanks for the reply!  I'll address your questions right now...

[quote]I checked Captain K's FAQ, and it does seem like you have the most streamlined way to get Auto-Item, Guts, Might Reinforce, etc. Other chapters to consider sending up are chapter 5 (for Poison Blow, I don't know how that compares to Mystic Cross vs Surt) and chapter 7 (Sacred Javelin -> Mystic Cross, Might Reinforce). Of course, it might not be worth making that Sap Power/Sap Guard/Dampen Magic harder to get. I really don't see a way to keep Jelanda and make her useful in a SS, like you said.[/quote]

Poison Blow?  Nah.  Celestial Star is the strongest spell in the game, this is proven fact.  Plus Jelanda fits Chapter 4's requirements quite well.  As for Chapter 7, the problem is that a high level would be required, and I just don't know a good way to do that in a single segment.  I'd have to recruit someone else and send them up earlier, so as to be able to enter a dungeon without getting the bad ending.  That seems like a time-waster to me...

[quote]Do you really need to Exp Orb up Jelanda? Max Hero Value and Angel Lips aren't enough?[/quote]

Yes, I tested this.  You need to level her up, max out her hero value with the extra CP, AND give her multiple angel lips (forget if it's 2 or 3, I know 1 isn't enough) in order to get Mystic Cross.  Plus it gives you some extra MP which is needed in the last dungeon.

[quote]I don't know what "Use a Poison Crystal to kill the monsters in there, then run back out." means in chapter 5. If it's a trapped chest, you still don't have to fight the enemies; you can just run and get the contents anyway. If it's for XP, Vanir in chapter 8 is better.[/quote]

It's a trapped chest, yes.  I don't like to risk running away because if it's unsuccessful it wastes a bunch of time.  The Mithril Golem is different because he takes forever to kill.

[quote]And I guess there is no way to do the Fires of Purgatory part without bumping into those enemies and running?[/quote]

Unfortunately, you're half right.  You can dodge them on the way there, but not on the way back.  And actually, I kill them with poison crystals...not a whole lot of time, gives XP, and if running doesn't work it costs a whole bunch of time.

As for skills, you're probably right, I'll look into this more.  Same for Mental Reaction and accessories.

[quote]One last thing I wanted to bring up: using PWS's takes quite a bit of time, but I think it is safe to assume that the amount of damage done is worth it?[/quote]

Of course!  I was actually wondering about Celestial Star since that takes a REALLY long time, and tested that and the normal Mystic Cross; even with the risk of Ether Scepters breaking, Celestial Star is clearly worth it.

[quote]Thanks so much for working on this. Just don't even think of abandoning it like people have for their runs of certain other... lesser games. ;)[/quote]

Well, thank you.  I now have a link to buy something for the VCR, so hopefully I can get this done eventually.  Makes me feel good to see someone else appreciate this game so much...as far as I'm concerned it ranks only below Chrono Trigger among RPGs.

I've been thinking about a Normal run as well, as that would be far more enjoyable to watch.  MUCH more difficult to plan though, the Lezard fight is what's worrying me...but that's for another time.

-Josh

Enhasa

2005-09-28 01:57:06 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

You don't know how much nicer it is to discuss running with a TAS'er heh.

I was thinking maybe Surt was weak to Dark, then Poison Blow was Dark instead of Earth for some reason... uh so forget what I said.

I forgot momentarily about how much wasted time failed running is, and that you're doing a SS.

Yeah, I stand by Charge, Mental Reaction, and Bangles. It's all about maximizing damage output baby!

Josh the Funkdoc

Edit history:

Josh the Funkdoc: 2005-09-28 04:40:10 am

2005-09-28 04:30:54 am

spread the dirt to the populace

Aren't charge attacks unblockable? If so then that's easily worth it, as Surt guards my stuff a LOT. Only thing is I don't think it works with archers so Valkyrie can't use it. Still, a big part of my strategy is using her bow attacks to knock lots of gems out of Surt, so getting a guaranteed knockdown to start this would be HUGE. Hopefully my assumption was right...

And Mental Reaction seems good too, not that far out of the way. I tend to wait until I can get a max combo going before I use an attack spell, but with this I can afford to use it much more often. Does it work even when you have low DME?

Also, I just realized that I can do a combo into Celestial Star in the first round to kill the Vanir and deal some damage to Surt. Then Mental Reaction in the next round, and I can use the support spells after that. Then everyone will hopefully be ready for another combo, and things will go from there. Sound like a good plan?

As for CT...Nibelung Valesti has 4 CT, Final Blast has 6, and Extreme Void has 3. Celestial Star's is higher than any of those, though I forget how much exactly. Fairy Ring reduces CT by 2; I see the Charge Break "reduces CT at cost of DME", can this reduce it even further?

And I'll check out the Bangles and see if stacking works.

A couple more questions: If a character dies and is revived, does he still keep the benefits of Might Reinforce? And, can that spell and Sap Guard be effective more than once per battle? If so, when can I use them again?

Thanks a lot for all your help! =)

And one more thing, in case you're interested: My PWS combo order. It goes as follows:

1&2: Lenneth & Arngrim
3: Shiho
4: Belenus

There's no damage bonus for attacks 1 and 2, so those can go in either order. Attack 3 gets a damage bonus, and the last attack gets an even larger bonus.

Celestial Star and Extreme Void are my two strongest attacks. Celestial Star builds enough meter to work as the #3, Extreme Void doesn't. Thus you have this order.

-Josh

Aren't charge attacks unblockable?  If so then that's easily worth it, as Surt guards my stuff a LOT.  Only thing is I don't think it works with archers so Valkyrie can't use it.  Still, a big part of my strategy is using her bow attacks to knock lots of gems out of Surt, so getting a guaranteed knockdown to start this would be HUGE.  Hopefully my assumption was right...

And Mental Reaction seems good too, not that far out of the way.  I tend to wait until I can get a max combo going before I use an attack spell, but with this I can afford to use it much more often.  Does it work even when you have low DME?

Also, I just realized that I can do a combo into Celestial Star in the first round to kill the Vanir and deal some damage to Surt.  Then Mental Reaction in the next round, and I can use the support spells after that.  Then everyone will hopefully be ready for another combo, and things will go from there.  Sound like a good plan?

As for CT...Nibelung Valesti has 4 CT, Final Blast has 6, and Extreme Void has 3.  Celestial Star's is higher than any of those, though I forget how much exactly.  Fairy Ring reduces CT by 2; I see the Charge Break "reduces CT at cost of DME", can this reduce it even further?

And I'll check out the Bangles and see if stacking works.

A couple more questions: If a character dies and is revived, does he still keep the benefits of Might Reinforce?  And, can that spell and Sap Guard be effective more than once per battle?  If so, when can I use them again?

Thanks a lot for all your help! =)

And one more thing, in case you're interested: My PWS combo order.  It goes as follows:

1&2: Lenneth & Arngrim
3: Shiho
4: Belenus

There's no damage bonus for attacks 1 and 2, so those can go in either order.  Attack 3 gets a damage bonus, and the last attack gets an even larger bonus.

Celestial Star and Extreme Void are my two strongest attacks.  Celestial Star builds enough meter to work as the #3, Extreme Void doesn't.  Thus you have this order.

-Josh