unStack - March 2, 2021

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2021-03-02 12:52:53 pm

2021-02-09 10:43:10 am

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

unStack () (psx) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Decision: Reject

Reason: The submitted run is a good effort in a demanding and at the same time interesting game. There is not much previous history to build on. There is however room for improvement. On one hand, continuous work of better understanding the game and improving the perception of the right moves in a given situation will likely result in more optimized execution on average. On the other hand, given the very low attempt count, more attempts will eventually lead to runs with better-than-average RNG and lower times.

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/verificationfiles/2319/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2021-02-09 10:43:10 am

Run Information

unStack () (psx) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/unstack-20210208/

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

LotBlind

2021-02-11 09:58:45 am

In case you can't access the run comments through the usual link, try this one.

Worn_Traveler

2021-02-22 10:21:24 am

Formerly known as Skullboy

Video is fine. There's a sound effect that does not sound native to the game at about 30:22. No cheating detected.

I have not played this game before or seen it prior to verifying. I read the comments before watching. This run loses a lot of time due to losing a round to Kronos and 2 rounds to Helios. The surprise combo from Poseidon seems to be pretty time consuming to clear as well. I estimate that Iat least 8 minutes were lost due to losing rounds. This run may be over an hour long but that is a lot of time lost. Perhaps this game might be better ran as a Segmented run if possible or as Individual Levels?

There's a lot of good stuff here (Ares 1 comes to mind) but the losses to Kronos and Helios are too damaging in my opinion.

Reject.

kazn

Edit history:

kazn: 2021-02-22 10:50:44 pm

2021-02-22 08:27:07 pm

Thank you for checking the video.

I want to confirm the reason for the rejection.
Is it the game sound around 30:22?
Or is the video too long and needs to be segmented?
At 30:22, there was a Streamlabs notification sound.

LotBlind

2021-02-23 03:40:49 am

I'm also going to watch this run. May take me a few days though, so this verification will be delayed.

So it's a Tetris clone... can't really expect world championship –level play though. Also the mechanics are a little bit different from regular Tetris so I'm guessing there isn't any definitive guide somewhere about how you're supposed to win fast. In fact I can't find a lot of information about the game at all. Did you find all the strategies yourself?

The video length doesn't matter. Worn Traveler just suggested running the game segmented (if the progress can be saved between levels) or one level at a time (if they can be accessed in any order), but there's nothing wrong with attempting single-segment runs like this and they will obviously be judged by completely different standards. I guess you can only play the levels through in a row in vs COM mode?

Run comments: I just wanted to help you make them a little easier to understand... when you say "circle" you should say "ball" and when you "square" you should say "cube".

So let's say it takes 3 drops to erase 3 blocks. If this happens one by one or if it happens in a combo takes the same time, right? But in the tougher levels, sending more blocks to the opponent might stop them from winning. Is there any other reason why getting combos is better? Is it still better in level one, for example?

How many attempts did you put into this run so far?

Do you always look at the drop that's coming next during explosions and combos?

I wanted to make sure I understood all the rules of this game so here's a few questions...

2:01 - Here you've just placed two green bombs vertically. Then you get a blue-green drop. When you place the green bomb on the other green bombs, they blow up, which loses a little time. So would it have been better to place the drop in a different place?
2:05 - Here can't you just place the purple bomb on the last block, which is purple, and win the round?
3:45 - Is it correct to say that if you place the green bomb in the red-green drop on top of the two existing green bombs, this causes the blue and purple blocks to be erased here? If so, why don't you do that?

Poseidon:

9:12 - yeah, nothing you can do to stop the opponent getting sudden combos. How often does a combo this big happen? It was six in a row.
12:20 - Why don't you use the drill bomb to erase two blocks instead of just erasing the purple? Actually, couldn't you have placed it in a way that erases the purple and also the stack of two blocks?
12:46 - Doesn't the floor bomb erase an entire level of the stack? So wouldn't it be better to place it on the right where you can drop in on the bottom floor faster?

I'll keep watching later and try to understand your decision-making as well as I can.

I'm also going to watch this run. May take me a few days though, so this verification will be delayed.

So it's a Tetris clone... can't really expect world championship –level play though. Also the mechanics are a little bit different from regular Tetris so I'm guessing there isn't any definitive guide somewhere about how you're supposed to win fast. In fact I can't find a lot of information about the game at all. Did you find all the strategies yourself?

The video length doesn't matter. Worn Traveler just suggested running the game segmented (if the progress can be saved between levels) or one level at a time (if they can be accessed in any order), but there's nothing wrong with attempting single-segment runs like this and they will obviously be judged by completely different standards. I guess you can only play the levels through in a row in vs COM mode?

Run comments: I just wanted to help you make them a little easier to understand... when you say "circle" you should say "ball" and when you "square" you should say "cube".

So let's say it takes 3 drops to erase 3 blocks. If this happens one by one or if it happens in a combo takes the same time, right? But in the tougher levels, sending more blocks to the opponent might stop them from winning. Is there any other reason why getting combos is better? Is it still better in level one, for example?

How many attempts did you put into this run so far?

Do you always look at the drop that's coming next during explosions and combos?

I wanted to make sure I understood all the rules of this game so here's a few questions...

2:01 - Here you've just placed two green bombs vertically. Then you get a blue-green drop. When you place the green bomb on the other green bombs, they blow up, which loses a little time. So would it have been better to place the drop in a different place?
2:05 - Here can't you just place the purple bomb on the last block, which is purple, and win the round?
3:45 - Is it correct to say that if you place the green bomb in the red-green drop on top of the two existing green bombs, this causes the blue and purple blocks to be erased here? If so, why don't you do that?

Poseidon:

9:12 - yeah, nothing you can do to stop the opponent getting sudden combos. How often does a combo this big happen? It was six in a row.
12:20 - Why don't you use the drill bomb to erase two blocks instead of just erasing the purple? Actually, couldn't you have placed it in a way that erases the purple and also the stack of two blocks?
12:46 - Doesn't the floor bomb erase an entire level of the stack? So wouldn't it be better to place it on the right where you can drop in on the bottom floor faster?

I'll keep watching later and try to understand your decision-making as well as I can.

kazn

Edit history:

kazn: 2021-02-23 08:10:23 am

2021-02-23 08:09:07 am

Thank you for checking the video.

Quote:

Did you find all the strategies yourself?

First of all, this game has a very small player population. The reason is not recorded in PlayStation Archives. It is also difficult to obtain.
My strategy is to quickly erase and execute small combos. This strategy is subject to change as we have little playing experience yet.

Quote:

The video length doesn't matter. Worn Traveler just suggested running the game segmented (if the progress can be saved between levels) or one level at a time (if they can be accessed in any order), but there's nothing wrong with attempting single-segment runs like this and they will obviously be judged by completely different standards. I guess you can only play the levels through in a row in vs COM mode?

I understand.
I have no objection to segmentation. It is possible.

Quote:

So let's say it takes 3 drops to erase 3 blocks. If this happens one by one or if it happens in a combo takes the same time, right? But in the tougher levels, sending more blocks to the opponent might stop them from winning. Is there any other reason why getting combos is better? Is it still better in level one, for example?

The biggest disadvantage of this game is the difficulty of combos.
The trick of the combo is to understand how the remaining blocks and balls move after breaking the blocks and balls.
The priority of movement is as shown in the attached image. It's difficult to make a combo with this priority in mind.
The number of combos that can be made easily and realistically is 2 to 3 combos.

Quote:

How many attempts did you put into this run so far?
Do you always look at the drop that's coming next during explosions and combos?

If the arrival to the ending of vs.com is one play count, I played about 10 times.
While the block or ball is sliding, I'm always thinking about where to drop the next ball.

Quote:

2:01 - Here you've just placed two green bombs vertically. Then you get a blue-green drop. When you place the green bomb on the other green bombs, they blow up, which loses a little time. So would it have been better to place the drop in a different place?

At this time, I dropped the balls of different colors early and aimed for the appearance of purple balls.
I didn't expect three green balls to come out in the meantime.

Quote:

2:05 - Here can't you just place the purple bomb on the last block, which is purple, and win the round?

Yeah, this is my mistake. When the remaining blocks are reduced and the BGM changes, the automatic falling speed of the ball will increase. I was impatient.

Quote:

3:45 - Is it correct to say that if you place the green bomb in the red-green drop on top of the two existing green bombs, this causes the blue and purple blocks to be erased here? If so, why don't you do that?

What you said is correct. This is my playing mistake. This is because I am not accustomed to the operation of automatic fall speed up and reverse rotation.

Quote:

9:12 - yeah, nothing you can do to stop the opponent getting sudden combos. How often does a combo this big happen? It was six in a row.

This big combo rarely happens when you break the blocks below with a lot of balls of different colors on top of the blocks and a lot of blocks.
I don't think the CPU will place the ball in anticipation of this.

Quote:

12:20 - Why don't you use the drill bomb to erase two blocks instead of just erasing the purple? Actually, couldn't you have placed it in a way that erases the purple and also the stack of two blocks?

Yeah, this is also my mistake. That method is the best.

Quote:

12:46 - Doesn't the floor bomb erase an entire level of the stack? So wouldn't it be better to place it on the right where you can drop in on the bottom floor faster?

your idea is correct. I wasn't used to looking around all the floors to find the best drop position.

Thank you for checking the video.

[quote]Did you find all the strategies yourself?[/quote]
First of all, this game has a very small player population. The reason is not recorded in PlayStation Archives. It is also difficult to obtain.
My strategy is to quickly erase and execute small combos. This strategy is subject to change as we have little playing experience yet.

[quote]The video length doesn't matter. Worn Traveler just suggested running the game segmented (if the progress can be saved between levels) or one level at a time (if they can be accessed in any order), but there's nothing wrong with attempting single-segment runs like this and they will obviously be judged by completely different standards. I guess you can only play the levels through in a row in vs COM mode?[/quote]
I understand.
I have no objection to segmentation. It is possible.

[quote]So let's say it takes 3 drops to erase 3 blocks. If this happens one by one or if it happens in a combo takes the same time, right? But in the tougher levels, sending more blocks to the opponent might stop them from winning. Is there any other reason why getting combos is better? Is it still better in level one, for example?[/quote]
The biggest disadvantage of this game is the difficulty of combos.
The trick of the combo is to understand how the remaining blocks and balls move after breaking the blocks and balls.
The priority of movement is as shown in the attached image. It's difficult to make a combo with this priority in mind.
The number of combos that can be made easily and realistically is 2 to 3 combos.

[quote]How many attempts did you put into this run so far?
Do you always look at the drop that's coming next during explosions and combos?[/quote]
If the arrival to the ending of vs.com is one play count, I played about 10 times.
While the block or ball is sliding, I'm always thinking about where to drop the next ball.

[quote]2:01 - Here you've just placed two green bombs vertically. Then you get a blue-green drop. When you place the green bomb on the other green bombs, they blow up, which loses a little time. So would it have been better to place the drop in a different place?[/quote]
At this time, I dropped the balls of different colors early and aimed for the appearance of purple balls.
I didn't expect three green balls to come out in the meantime.

[quote]2:05 - Here can't you just place the purple bomb on the last block, which is purple, and win the round?[/quote]
Yeah, this is my mistake. When the remaining blocks are reduced and the BGM changes, the automatic falling speed of the ball will increase. I was impatient.

[quote]3:45 - Is it correct to say that if you place the green bomb in the red-green drop on top of the two existing green bombs, this causes the blue and purple blocks to be erased here? If so, why don't you do that?[/quote]
What you said is correct. This is my playing mistake. This is because I am not accustomed to the operation of automatic fall speed up and reverse rotation.

[quote]9:12 - yeah, nothing you can do to stop the opponent getting sudden combos. How often does a combo this big happen? It was six in a row.[/quote]
This big combo rarely happens when you break the blocks below with a lot of balls of different colors on top of the blocks and a lot of blocks.
I don't think the CPU will place the ball in anticipation of this.

[quote]12:20 - Why don't you use the drill bomb to erase two blocks instead of just erasing the purple? Actually, couldn't you have placed it in a way that erases the purple and also the stack of two blocks?[/quote]
Yeah, this is also my mistake. That method is the best.

[quote]12:46 - Doesn't the floor bomb erase an entire level of the stack? So wouldn't it be better to place it on the right where you can drop in on the bottom floor faster?[/quote]
your idea is correct. I wasn't used to looking around all the floors to find the best drop position.

Attachment:

paint.png

LotBlind

2021-02-23 01:24:49 pm

Thanks for the detailed answers so far. I hope I don't have to ask too too many more questions but I'm trying to give a fair verdict, so it helps.

Single-segment vs. segmented runs: There was a time when segmented runs were a lot more popular. Many runners used to submit us runs in both categories, and I think both are interesting. Actually, I'm biased towards segmented runs if anything. Anyway, there are several reasons why they're not as popular anymore and some of them include speedrun.com and the marathons. Both tend to only have single-segment runs.

Combos: Yes, I understand they're a lot more difficult to visualize than in a 2D game. What I meant was is the only advantage of getting a combo the fact that you're sending more blocks to your opponent? Is it better to use three bomb drops to destroy three blocks one by one, or to use the first two blocks to prepare a combo that will destroy the same number of blocks, then trigger the combo with the third block?

Attempt count: 10 full attempts isn't very much. Most runs take let's say 50 attempts at least. Some runs we're sent took a lot more attempts than that. Of course every attempt is quite long in this particular game... but that's why the runners tend to reset quite early if things aren't going like they want them to.

Do you try to remember anything about the internal layout of the pile as the stacks are dropping one by one from the ceiling at the start of each round?

...

16:44 - This cross bomb – purple drop... What about putting it on the floor level on the left side so you destroy a row of four blocks inside the pile + another purple either above or to the side? I see that's exactly what you did at 22:25 actually.
16:56 - This purple-floor bomb drop... You have several seconds while the warning is on the screen to scan the floor for where you want to put it. Even though the warning itself makes it difficult to see, I think because getting 36 new blocks means it's a full floor, that means the shape of the pile that's available won't change. And so you could have already known where to put the bomb. I know that's quite a specific and advanced heuristic but it's another example of things that are easy to learn if you just give it more time.
18:20 - Hahaha... I think you were doing quite well through most of this fight and then BOOM "here's 140 more blocks for you". I laughed.
18:45 - Why not just put the red-red where the two red blocks are? Did you think setting up a three-bomb explosion was better somehow?

23:57 - Should have put this cross bomb on the right side probably.

Will continue...

Thanks for the detailed answers so far. I hope I don't have to ask too too many more questions but I'm trying to give a fair verdict, so it helps.

Single-segment vs. segmented runs: There was a time when segmented runs were a lot more popular. Many runners used to submit us runs in both categories, and I think both are interesting. Actually, I'm biased towards segmented runs if anything. Anyway, there are several reasons why they're not as popular anymore and some of them include speedrun.com and the marathons. Both tend to only have single-segment runs.

Combos: Yes, I understand they're a lot more difficult to visualize than in a 2D game. What I meant was is the only advantage of getting a combo the fact that you're sending more blocks to your opponent? Is it better to use three bomb drops to destroy three blocks one by one, or to use the first two blocks to prepare a combo that will destroy the same number of blocks, then trigger the combo with the third block?

Attempt count: 10 full attempts isn't very much. Most runs take let's say 50 attempts at least. Some runs we're sent took a lot more attempts than that. Of course every attempt is quite long in this particular game... but that's why the runners tend to reset quite early if things aren't going like they want them to.

Do you try to remember anything about the internal layout of the pile as the stacks are dropping one by one from the ceiling at the start of each round?

...

16:44 - This cross bomb – purple drop... What about putting it on the floor level on the left side so you destroy a row of four blocks inside the pile + another purple either above or to the side? I see that's exactly what you did at 22:25 actually.
16:56 - This purple-floor bomb drop... You have several seconds while the warning is on the screen to scan the floor for where you want to put it. Even though the warning itself makes it difficult to see, I think because getting 36 new blocks means it's a full floor, that means the shape of the pile that's available won't change. And so you could have already known where to put the bomb. I know that's quite a specific and advanced heuristic but it's another example of things that are easy to learn if you just give it more time.
18:20 - Hahaha... I think you were doing quite well through most of this fight and then BOOM "here's 140 more blocks for you". I laughed.
18:45 - Why not just put the red-red where the two red blocks are? Did you think setting up a three-bomb explosion was better somehow?

23:57 - Should have put this cross bomb on the right side probably.

Will continue...

kazn

Edit history:

kazn: 2021-02-23 11:36:13 pm

2021-02-23 11:31:51 pm

Thank you for checking

Quote:

Combos: Yes, I understand they're a lot more difficult to visualize than in a 2D game. What I meant was is the only advantage of getting a combo the fact that you're sending more blocks to your opponent? Is it better to use three bomb drops to destroy three blocks one by one, or to use the first two blocks to prepare a combo that will destroy the same number of blocks, then trigger the combo with the third block?

As I commented at the time of posting, the winning method is to stack the opponent's block in the red zone or set your own block to 0.
It is better to set the block to 0 as a speed run.
Certainly, the bigger the combo, the higher the winning percentage, but at the same time it gives the opponent a chance to make a big combo.
This is because the more blocks you have, the easier it is for large combos to occur.
Therefore, it is quick and realistic to reduce the block to 0 while blocking the opponent's victory with a small combo.
When two balls appear, it is a case-by-case decision whether to prepare for the three balls or connect them to blocks of the same color and erase them.
In the attached image, it is a case to connect to a block. Case 1 can erase as many as 3 blocks. It is more efficient than connecting three balls.
Case 2 erases two blocks with one ball, leaving the other. This is to make it easier to make a combo by leaving the ball.
For Case 3, if you first see two purple balls, drop them vertically to ensure a combo.

Quote:

Attempt count: 10 full attempts isn't very much. Most runs take let's say 50 attempts at least. Some runs we're sent took a lot more attempts than that. Of course every attempt is quite long in this particular game... but that's why the runners tend to reset quite early if things aren't going like they want them to.

Do you try to remember anything about the internal layout of the pile as the stacks are dropping one by one from the ceiling at the start of each round?

If there was a possibility of update pb, I should have gained some playing experience before applying, but I applied because there was no description of playing experience in the application conditions.
The invisible internal layout is hard to remember everything. However, the joker block, the top rank block, and that next rank block, which are important for combo creation, are conscious of remembering.

Quote:

18:45 - Why not just put the red-red where the two red blocks are? Did you think setting up a three-bomb explosion was better somehow?

As you said, we gave priority to connecting three balls of the same color. This is because if you connect three, the adjacent blocks will be erased regardless of the color. The erasing power is high.

Thank you for checking

[quote]Combos: Yes, I understand they're a lot more difficult to visualize than in a 2D game. What I meant was is the only advantage of getting a combo the fact that you're sending more blocks to your opponent? Is it better to use three bomb drops to destroy three blocks one by one, or to use the first two blocks to prepare a combo that will destroy the same number of blocks, then trigger the combo with the third block?[/quote]
As I commented at the time of posting, the winning method is to stack the opponent's block in the red zone or set your own block to 0.
It is better to set the block to 0 as a speed run.
Certainly, the bigger the combo, the higher the winning percentage, but at the same time it gives the opponent a chance to make a big combo.
This is because the more blocks you have, the easier it is for large combos to occur.
Therefore, it is quick and realistic to reduce the block to 0 while blocking the opponent's victory with a small combo.
When two balls appear, it is a case-by-case decision whether to prepare for the three balls or connect them to blocks of the same color and erase them.
In the attached image, it is a case to connect to a block. Case 1 can erase as many as 3 blocks. It is more efficient than connecting three balls.
Case 2 erases two blocks with one ball, leaving the other. This is to make it easier to make a combo by leaving the ball.
For Case 3, if you first see two purple balls, drop them vertically to ensure a combo.

[quote]Attempt count: 10 full attempts isn't very much. Most runs take let's say 50 attempts at least. Some runs we're sent took a lot more attempts than that. Of course every attempt is quite long in this particular game... but that's why the runners tend to reset quite early if things aren't going like they want them to.

Do you try to remember anything about the internal layout of the pile as the stacks are dropping one by one from the ceiling at the start of each round?[/quote]
If there was a possibility of update pb, I should have gained some playing experience before applying, but I applied because there was no description of playing experience in the application conditions.
The invisible internal layout is hard to remember everything. However, the joker block, the top rank block, and that next rank block, which are important for combo creation, are conscious of remembering.

[quote]18:45 - Why not just put the red-red where the two red blocks are? Did you think setting up a three-bomb explosion was better somehow?[/quote]
As you said, we gave priority to connecting three balls of the same color. This is because if you connect three, the adjacent blocks will be erased regardless of the color. The erasing power is high.

Attachments:

2021-02-25 07:37:28 am

46:11 - Here I thought it was a mistake to place the cross bomb there but clearly it wasn't, you were thinking ahead. Nice!

48:16 - I think this is not what you meant to do with this cross bomb?

57:38 - Wow, that really was close!

1:01:17 - Sometimes you place cross bombs higher up like this, instead of low down where there are more blocks to destroy with them. Is that somehow more beneficial? The same at 1:13:28.

1:06:36 - With this 5x5x5 cube, maybe you should pay special attention to what blocks are on the top layer of the cube near the back so if you get a matching drop, you can erase two blocks back there? Or should you set up 3-bomb explosions up there instead? I wonder if trying to get big combos is better in this level compared to the others because the cube is already more than halfway full. In that case using cross bombs down the bottom and generally trying to erase blocks in places that causes the most blocks to move afterwards might be best. Is it likely that plan would backfire by the opponent getting more big combos too? Maybe it's still too unlikely to win by filling the opponent's cube...

1:14:45 - I guess when you're in this kind of completely unwinnable situation and you see the opponent getting the floor bomb, the best you can do is try to time when your last bombs have landed right after the opponent's blocks have blown up. Of course it's best if it doesn't happen in the run at all. BTW: Does the game let you start the match over if you find that you're going to lose the first round? That might be faster as well. Of course in this run you couldn't have done that.

I called the playfield the "pile" before but it makes sense to call it "cube" and to call the things you have to destroy "blocks" like you have. One tower of blocks/bombs can be called a "stack" (what gets erased when a drill bomb falls on it). Horizontal "stacks" are "rows". I guess they could be called X-rows and Z-rows or whatever the right axes are.

I guess one idea would be to try to keep a hole in the lowest layer that can be reached just in case you get a floor bomb drop, or even just a cross bomb. It would have made some floor bombs more effective I think. I think you get at least one floor bomb every round. I don't know if the same applies to cross bombs or drill bombs. I know it's difficult to keep track of everything.

Winning strategy: Yes, I understand your logic.

It was okay to send this attempt into verification. The guidelines here give some idea about what kinds of runs tend to be accepted. We have to have fairly high standards because it takes too much work to process the runs otherwise, and the high quality is a big part of the reason why SDA should exist in the first place. I hope you've found runs you liked sent in by others. I've seen a lot of runs that were really inspiring and exciting.

I can see this game has a very very high skill cap and RNG is also very important. It takes a very large amount of concentration for quite a long period of time, so I respect you even attempting to run it! I think it's obviously a case where it just takes a lot of practice and critical thinking to be able to consistently make the best or almost the best plays. A lot of things can turn into muscle memory. So I suggest doing more attempts and sometimes stopping to analyze what you did to try to come up with general heuristics that help you in various situations. Just focus on the things you can control, and eventually you'll get a run where you get both very good RNG and don't make too many mistakes. Not losing any rounds would probably make a run that's definitely good enough but of course if the other rounds are won fairly quickly, even losing a round might still be okay.

On a personal note, I really like the concept of the game and will be very happy to see it as part of the collection!

I hope some of my comments were helpful. It's not a bad run, you already have a lot of skill, but I know you can make it better with more attempts. Sometimes I've recommended doing a segmented run first because that tends to help find the best strategies and understand the nuances of each part of the run. "Divide and conquer" as they say.

weak reject

46:11 - Here I thought it was a mistake to place the cross bomb there but clearly it wasn't, you were thinking ahead. Nice!

48:16 - I think this is not what you meant to do with this cross bomb?

57:38 - Wow, that really was close!

1:01:17 - Sometimes you place cross bombs higher up like this, instead of low down where there are more blocks to destroy with them. Is that somehow more beneficial? The same at 1:13:28.

1:06:36 - With this 5x5x5 cube, maybe you should pay special attention to what blocks are on the top layer of the cube near the back so if you get a matching drop, you can erase two blocks back there? Or should you set up 3-bomb explosions up there instead? I wonder if trying to get big combos is better in this level compared to the others because the cube is already more than halfway full. In that case using cross bombs down the bottom and generally trying to erase blocks in places that causes the most blocks to move afterwards might be best. Is it likely that plan would backfire by the opponent getting more big combos too? Maybe it's still too unlikely to win by filling the opponent's cube...

1:14:45 - I guess when you're in this kind of completely unwinnable situation and you see the opponent getting the floor bomb, the best you can do is try to time when your last bombs have landed right after the opponent's blocks have blown up. Of course it's best if it doesn't happen in the run at all. BTW: Does the game let you start the match over if you find that you're going to lose the first round? That might be faster as well. Of course in this run you couldn't have done that.

I called the playfield the "pile" before but it makes sense to call it "cube" and to call the things you have to destroy "blocks" like you have. One tower of blocks/bombs can be called a "stack" (what gets erased when a drill bomb falls on it). Horizontal "stacks" are "rows". I guess they could be called X-rows and Z-rows or whatever the right axes are.

I guess one idea would be to try to keep a hole in the lowest layer that can be reached just in case you get a floor bomb drop, or even just a cross bomb. It would have made some floor bombs more effective I think. I think you get at least one floor bomb every round. I don't know if the same applies to cross bombs or drill bombs. I know it's difficult to keep track of everything.

Winning strategy: Yes, I understand your logic.

It was okay to send this attempt into verification. The [url=https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Verification_Guidelines]guidelines[/url] here give some idea about what kinds of runs tend to be accepted. We have to have fairly high standards because it takes too much work to process the runs otherwise, and the high quality is a big part of the reason why SDA should exist in the first place. I hope you've found runs you liked sent in by others. I've seen a lot of runs that were really inspiring and exciting.

I can see this game has a very very high skill cap and RNG is also very important. It takes a very large amount of concentration for quite a long period of time, so I respect you even attempting to run it! I think it's obviously a case where it just takes a lot of practice and critical thinking to be able to consistently make the best or almost the best plays. A lot of things can turn into muscle memory. So I suggest doing more attempts and sometimes stopping to analyze what you did to try to come up with general heuristics that help you in various situations. Just focus on the things you can control, and eventually you'll get a run where you get both very good RNG and don't make too many mistakes. Not losing any rounds would probably make a run that's definitely good enough but of course if the other rounds are won fairly quickly, even losing a round might still be okay.

On a personal note, I really like the concept of the game and will be very happy to see it as part of the collection!

I hope some of my comments were helpful. It's not a bad run, you already have a lot of skill, but I know you can make it better with more attempts. Sometimes I've recommended doing a segmented run first because that tends to help find the best strategies and understand the nuances of each part of the run. "Divide and conquer" as they say.

weak reject

kazn

Edit history:

kazn: 2021-02-26 03:18:09 am

kazn: 2021-02-26 03:17:21 am

kazn: 2021-02-26 03:14:03 am

kazn: 2021-02-26 01:08:31 am

kazn: 2021-02-25 09:33:13 pm

2021-02-25 09:27:23 pm

Quote:

48:16 - I think this is not what you meant to do with this cross bomb?

This is my mistake.

Quote:

1:01:17 - Sometimes you place cross bombs higher up like this, instead of low down where there are more blocks to destroy with them. Is that somehow more beneficial? The same at 1:13:28.

For example, you can remove many blocks by placing them in the white circle of the capture, but only the left and right blocks can be combined with the purple ball as a combo.
For example, if you put it in the white circle of the capture, you can remove many blocks, but only the left and right blocks can be comboed with the purple ball.
Since the block below the purple ball cannot be erased, the probability of combo decreases. Of course, if you can determine that the next lower left and right block is the same color as the ball, the cross bomb will prioritize erasing more blocks.

Quote:

1:06:36 - With this 5x5x5 cube, maybe you should pay special attention to what blocks are on the top layer of the cube near the back so if you get a matching drop, you can erase two blocks back there? Or should you set up 3-bomb explosions up there instead? I wonder if trying to get big combos is better in this level compared to the others because the cube is already more than halfway full. In that case using cross bombs down the bottom and generally trying to erase blocks in places that causes the most blocks to move afterwards might be best. Is it likely that plan would backfire by the opponent getting more big combos too? Maybe it's still too unlikely to win by filling the opponent's cube...

sorry. I couldn't understand the English of this sentence.
The cube-shaped strategy is to make a dent as shown in the white frame of the capture. By doing so, it will be cheaper to combine blocks and balls of the same color.
I don't put a basic ball on top of the cube.It's annoying and both directions are erased by the drill bomb.

Quote:

1:14:45 - I guess when you're in this kind of completely unwinnable situation and you see the opponent getting the floor bomb, the best you can do is try to time when your last bombs have landed right after the opponent's blocks have blown up. Of course it's best if it doesn't happen in the run at all. BTW: Does the game let you start the match over if you find that you're going to lose the first round? That might be faster as well. Of course in this run you couldn't have done that.

Certainly, if the opponent's win count is 1 or less and the opponent's victory is clearly confirmed, it may be effective to stack the ball in the red zone and intentionally lose to go to the next round.
By the way, if the opponent wins 3 times, I will start over from Pluton.
After winning 3 times, it is possible to return to the menu screen and save the progress of vs.com without going to the next stage.
However, save is a loss of time, so we aim to clear it without saving.

Looking at the advice and guidelines I got from this result, I also found it difficult to approve as a record.
There are still many improvements, such as ball placement and operation.
Currently, I made a record of 1:08:30, which is 10 minutes earlier than the posting record, but I think there are still improvements.
I would like to gain a little more experience and make a sub 1 hour record, or apply again after a few months of training.

Thanks for checking my run.

[quote]48:16 - I think this is not what you meant to do with this cross bomb?[/quote]
This is my mistake.

[quote]1:01:17 - Sometimes you place cross bombs higher up like this, instead of low down where there are more blocks to destroy with them. Is that somehow more beneficial? The same at 1:13:28.[/quote]
For example, you can remove many blocks by placing them in the white circle of the capture, but only the left and right blocks can be combined with the purple ball as a combo.
For example, if you put it in the white circle of the capture, you can remove many blocks, but only the left and right blocks can be comboed with the purple ball.
Since the block below the purple ball cannot be erased, the probability of combo decreases. Of course, if you can determine that the next lower left and right block is the same color as the ball, the cross bomb will prioritize erasing more blocks.

[quote]1:06:36 - With this 5x5x5 cube, maybe you should pay special attention to what blocks are on the top layer of the cube near the back so if you get a matching drop, you can erase two blocks back there? Or should you set up 3-bomb explosions up there instead? I wonder if trying to get big combos is better in this level compared to the others because the cube is already more than halfway full. In that case using cross bombs down the bottom and generally trying to erase blocks in places that causes the most blocks to move afterwards might be best. Is it likely that plan would backfire by the opponent getting more big combos too? Maybe it's still too unlikely to win by filling the opponent's cube...[/quote]
sorry. I couldn't understand the English of this sentence.
The cube-shaped strategy is to make a dent as shown in the white frame of the capture. By doing so, it will be cheaper to combine blocks and balls of the same color.
I don't put a basic ball on top of the cube.It's annoying and both directions are erased by the drill bomb.

[quote]1:14:45 - I guess when you're in this kind of completely unwinnable situation and you see the opponent getting the floor bomb, the best you can do is try to time when your last bombs have landed right after the opponent's blocks have blown up. Of course it's best if it doesn't happen in the run at all. BTW: Does the game let you start the match over if you find that you're going to lose the first round? That might be faster as well. Of course in this run you couldn't have done that.[/quote]
Certainly, if the opponent's win count is 1 or less and the opponent's victory is clearly confirmed, it may be effective to stack the ball in the red zone and intentionally lose to go to the next round.
By the way, if the opponent wins 3 times, I will start over from Pluton.
After winning 3 times, it is possible to return to the menu screen and save the progress of vs.com without going to the next stage.
However, save is a loss of time, so we aim to clear it without saving.

Looking at the advice and guidelines I got from this result, I also found it difficult to approve as a record.
There are still many improvements, such as ball placement and operation.
Currently, I made a record of 1:08:30, which is 10 minutes earlier than the posting record, but I think there are still improvements.
I would like to gain a little more experience and make a sub 1 hour record, or apply again after a few months of training.

Thanks for checking my run.

Attachments:

paint1.png

paint.png

SDAVerification

2021-02-27 05:01:19 am

kazn, since you are still trying to push the time lower, the best is probably that we cancel this submission.
Feel free to continue the discussion here or create a topic for this game in the forum.
When you feel you've pushed the time as low as you realistically can, you're welcome to submit again.

LotBlind

2021-02-27 03:45:45 pm

The last match: I was just thinking out loud about what might be best for that level. Because the well (I think in Tetris where the pieces are falling into is called a "well") is already half-full, I was just thinking that if you play the game segmented later, maybe you can realistically cause such a big combo that it causes the opponent to lose almost instantly. That might make a segmented run where you save after each stage faster than a single-segment one. You can manipulate the RNG so much. I wonder if the game even gives you the same patterns every time when you start from the same save file. Probably not.

Good luck in your efforts! Difficult to say just by looking at it how low the time should go, but the basic distribution of probability suggests that getting a no-lose run isn't too much to hope for. Also these things tend to follow a certain kind of curve when the runner practises and theorycrafts more. I don't know anything about this game in specific, but I've seen the same happening with many other games: the runner often doesn't realize his own potential before at least one reject.

The last match: I was just thinking out loud about what might be best for that level. Because the well (I think in Tetris where the pieces are falling into is called a "well") is already half-full, I was just thinking that if you play the game segmented later, maybe you can realistically cause such a big combo that it causes the opponent to lose almost instantly. That might make a segmented run where you save after each stage faster than a single-segment one. You can manipulate the RNG so much. I wonder if the game even gives you the same patterns every time when you start from the same save file. Probably not.

Good luck in your efforts! Difficult to say just by looking at it how low the time should go, but the basic distribution of probability suggests that getting a no-lose run isn't too much to hope for. Also these things tend to follow a certain kind of curve when the runner practises and theorycrafts more. I don't know anything about this game in specific, but I've seen the same happening with many other games: the runner often doesn't realize his own potential before at least one reject.

Worn_Traveler

2021-02-27 07:31:07 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

I did enjoy watching the run and I'll grab a copy of the game if I come across it as it looked pretty cool. Keep up the good work!

SDAVerification

2021-03-02 12:52:54 pm

Decision posted.