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Fragmaster01: 2015-09-19 11:33:21 pm
Fragmaster01: 2015-09-19 05:20:12 pm
Fragmaster01: 2015-09-19 05:18:58 pm
Fragmaster01: 2015-09-19 05:17:51 pm
Fragmaster01: 2015-09-19 05:17:31 pm
Wiggle wiggle
It's out! And happily enough, it's a good length for speedrunning, with skill and planning involved.

If you haven't played it, go play it. It's not a game you want to spoil. If you have, read on!

There's three general categories: Any% Best Ending, 100% Bosses Pacifist, and Genocide. You could technically do a Normal Ending route, but since 100% includes that, it's kinda redundant. Timing starts when you finish inputting the Fallen Child's name.
Any% Best Ending
Best ending requires a Pacifist runthrough. Kill no one, including bosses. Additionally for the best ending, you need to make friends and do the True Laboratory before reaching the end.
Ruins - Head on through. The pit switch is in the center-top hole, the color switches are Blue(behind pillar), Red, Green(behind first pillar). Napstablook you make happy until he makes a hat of tears, then cheer him again. Make sure to have 7g saved up by the Spider Bake Sale, to buy a donut for later.
Boss(Toriel) - Spare until she gives up. Almost impossible to lose, because the last shot will drop you to 1 instead of death, and then you're safe from further attacks.
Snowdin - Haven't tested the best way to answer Papyrus' questions. Greater Dog you Beckon>Pet>Play, then Pet until he is content. The Dog Twins you roll in the dirt, then let them smell you.
Boss(Papyrus) - Spare until he's tired.
Waterfall - Haven't tried changing clothes when Papyrus calls to ask what you're wearing, but it seems like that should stop an Undyne segment.
Boss(Training Dummy Mk. 2) - Dodge about until Napstablook comes. Not sure if it's faster to let him get hit by his own attacks, dialogue-wise.
Boss(Muppet) - Eat the spider donut from earlier in the fight, and she'll stop fighting immediately.
Boss(Undyne) - Play DDR until you turn red again, then flee. Repeat until you escape. Give her the water cup.
Hotland - The battles with Metaton can't kill you until the end. Someone can figure out a good bomb-defuse route.
Boss(Mettaton) - The safe way to boost ratings is to Boast, and dodge everything. The segmented method is to get dropped to 1HP, then Pose repeatedly. This gives something like +700 ratings a turn. Note that 10,000 isn't a hard limit for the battle: it's either slightly more than 10,000, or you need to hit 10,000 and last one more turn. You might be able to skip his early section by dying and coming back? Not tested.
Dating - Go to the boat in Hotland, take it back to Snowdin. Go on Papyrus' date. Take boat to Waterfall. Go on Undyne's date. Leave an inventory slot open for the letter to Alphys.
True Laboratory - Give letter to Alphys, and head on down. The only way to speed this up is to know ahead of time where the keys are, and to turn on the fans on the left side before going to the refrigerator room. Don't bother reading logs.
Palace - Head on through. Assuming you did everything right, you'll get the true ending boss.
Boss(Asriel) - Dodge everything. Hope lowers damage you take, Dreams fills your inventory with healing items. Preferably, you'd Hope every round you're not healing. Don't die; you won't lose, but there's a respawn animation and you have to do the last attack he threw over again. Research: Perhaps eating the pie drops his attack like with Asgore? Haven't tried.
Boss(Fallen Child) - Struggle 3 times, then Save the lost souls. Each one needs any 3 choices from the act menu, doesn't matter which ones. Save Asriel until the Fallen Child fades away.
Timing stops when you finish the dialog with Toriel. (possibly? I forget if you have to Z through the 2 Asriel lines).

As above, but do not do the True Laboratory when you get the chance to. Proceed through the palace as before. Additionally, keep the Pie from Toriel the entire game.
Boss(Asgore) - Plead 3 times to lower his attack and defense. Eat the pie as well to do it again. Then fight until he drops to 1 HP.
Boss(Omega Flowey) - As with Asriel, you can't actually lose? However, I do recall that some points will close your game if he gets the upper hand, which is really awkward from a recording perspective(and time loss). Dodge everything, and remember that fighting doesn't actually use time in this boss, so do it when possible(even if you won't do much damage at first).
After the battle, continue the dialog with Flowey, then load your save. Now do the True Laboratory, and the end of the any% route.

Why would you play this, you jerk? In any case, there's only two points of contention.
Boss(Undyneing) - This time you have to fight her. Because of this, healing is a time-loss, you want to win while being able to FIGHT every round.
Boss(Determined Sans) - This boss basically means it has to be a segmented route. Stock up on healing items ahead of time, and don't die. Once he uses his "Special Attack", do nothing until he falls asleep, then move over to the FIGHT command and end it.
Timing ends when Fallen Child crashes the game.

Here's a Normal End run, 1:35:55
Here's a 100% run, 2:54:55.
I just did a quick check on youtube for those, they might not be the fastest.

Researching save backups and save usage is probably gonna be far more important in this game than others, just because of the nature of it. Notably, beating the game on Pacifist or Genocide will change the endings in future runs(Genocide especially).
Thread title:  
Gotta go forward!
Amazing game, I hope to see speedruns of this~

NOTE: If you are reading this thread, I assume you've already played the game, so please mind spoilers below!

*** I do have a few concerns regarding runs for this game, because the game changes based on past playthoughs:

(1) I'm wondering why we should call the second category 100%: wouldn't it be better to name it "Any% True Best Ending"? or the like? I think 100% would imply all major routes (Genocide/Neutral/Pacifist) or possibly all optional items you can collect. You'd also need to visit Timmie Village and find all the dogs if you consider "map-completion" a criteria... As you note, Genocide completely changes all future runs, so wouldn't this need to be a part of fully "100%"'ing the game?

(2) Also, there is the ability to ignore Flowey at the beginning of a repeated playthrough if you kill him on a normal route then attempt Pacifist. Would this need to be factored in to the run time? Unfortunately there are just so many dialogue and event changes on repeated playthroughs that could warrant major time differences.

(3) Flowey/Sans/Toriel change dialogue on repeated playthroughs based on past actions.

I guess the major concern...
Earlier playthroughs can screw up events in future ones, so should we consider just doing a fresh start by fully resetting the game before each run (APPDATA deletion/uninstall)? Or should we allow any manipulation of repeated playthoughs via past ones?
Wiggle wiggle
100% doesn't necessarily mean "everything". Like how in Super Metroid, a 100% run doesn't kill every enemy, or visit every room. It's 100% of something, in this case doing the entire plot of the pacifist run including the asgore/omega flowey fight. 100% Pacifist Bosses? Full Pacifist Run? We can find words that make sense. "DOING ALL OF THIS THING". Yes.
Not sure how interested/dedicated I'd be in running this game but considering the hundreds of choices you can take throughout the game it seems like it could be really fun to route.
Don't get why you'd consider Neutral ending (i.e. true any%) redundant though. It's likely the fastest and most straightforward category.

As far as I understand, if you wipe the %localappdata%\Undertale save folder everything is reset to zero EXCEPT for whatever flag keeps track of if you sold your soul at the end of a Genocide run. However, unless I'm forgetting something your soulless status only affects some post-credits stuff so it wouldn't matter in a speedrun anyway.
Gotta go forward!
Sounds good. So a complete wipe is probably the best way to level the playing field Tongue

I'll consider running True Best Ending; the game is too good!
Edit history:
angelar: 2015-09-20 02:20:49 pm
angelar: 2015-09-20 02:14:34 pm
Just as a note for people doing a merciless run, holding up and down on a north wall allows you to run in place for random encounters. This may or may not be faster than moving normally, but strafing side to side while doing so may compare and conserve space (depending on how the game treats diagonals vs. cardinal movement in terms of steps for random encounters) and alleviate the tedium of having to run in circles in closed areas. You can even hold all four directions at once (again, unsure if this has any impact with how movement is calculated.)
Been going through the game and building up a collection of saves that might be useful for testing stuff in the future. Will share a dl link once it's complete if anyone's interested.

Some routing notes (mainly regarding any% but might apply for Pacifist/Genocide):
- Suckerpunching Toriel (attack on her sparing turn) is a little faster than killing her normally and surprisingly enough only 8 seconds faster than sparing until the battle ends.
- Asking Papyrus to repeat his explanation for the random tile puzzle twice (making him get frustrated and tell you to do it yourself) is about 6 seconds faster than letting him randomize it.
- Suckerpunching and killing Papyrus is obviously faster than not since it skips all the phone calls you would otherwise receive from him throughout the game.
- During the Mettaton quiz each incorrect answer halves your HP but if you reach 1 HP Mettaton will skip straight to the last question. In other words, the fastest way to get through it is to take 19 points of damage in the Undyne fight just before the quiz (3 arrows * 5 dmg each + 1 spear * 4 dmg) and opting not to use the Lab Entrance save point which lets you start the fight at 1HP and makes you only have to sit through 2 questions.
- Haven't timed it but I believe doing the game bomb first and either the dog or the glass of water last is the fastest way to get through the bomb defusal minigame.
- Sitting through the musical number is 30 seconds slower than "defeating" Muffet --> going back to the previous save point and save --> going to the Mettaton opera scene --> closing the game as soon as his first dialogue box appears --> relaunching the game and reloading the save --> going back to him and choosing to skip to the action.
- You can actually get through the tile puzzle which lets you fight Mettaton a few seconds earlier than if you had let the time run out.
- Ratings don't really matter during the Mettaton EX fight. As long as you successfully keep using Boast and dodging attacks you'll hit 10k ratings by the round he loses his legs. But just for fun: typing "toby" during the essay gives you 300 points, eating Glamburgers gives you 500 points and playing fetch with the Stick gives you 700 points.
Edit history:
Celestics: 2015-09-21 09:32:08 pm
Celestics: 2015-09-21 09:30:15 pm
Celestics: 2015-09-21 12:32:42 am
Gotta go forward!
Did a True Best Ending run (deleted APPDATA files beforehand) in 2:43:57:

Some notes:
1) Always save near the END gate before you finish the first Asgore fight, because otherwise you have to go through every cutscene you did not save through later. This means you have to end up backtracking through the castle to Snowdin later when you need to get the letter...
2) At the LAST phase of the Asriel fight where you try to save him, I mistakenly attack and miss and end up skipping one of his attack phases... Not sure what this means.
3) Bisicles are amazing safety strat items to use.

Other Stuff:
1) Apparently going through the credits without touching anything allows you to open the Toriel door near Snowdin (not confirmed, but someone said this is the case).

EDIT: Anyone want to start up a page for this game? I wouldn't mind suggesting it and adding you guys as mods, but I'm not entirely sure if I'll have the time to audit these long runs.
I'm about three quarters of the way through the game right now, have a possibility for any%, does talking to the dummy and sparing it skip the mad dummy fight later? Seems like an easy way to skip the 3 min fight
Quote from BystanderTim:
I'm about three quarters of the way through the game right now, have a possibility for any%, does talking to the dummy and sparing it skip the mad dummy fight later? Seems like an easy way to skip the 3 min fight

No, you get different lines of dialogue depending on what you do with the tutorial dummy but you have to fight Mad Dummy regardless. IIRC he says you deserve to die for being boring if you spare or run away from the tutorial dummy.
Edit history:
Celestics: 2015-09-22 10:36:25 am
Celestics: 2015-09-21 09:25:38 pm
Celestics: 2015-09-21 03:21:02 pm
Celestics: 2015-09-21 02:55:46 pm
Gotta go forward!
Going to add more notes here:

(1) Stick works on all dog-related bosses (Twin Snoopies, Lesser/Greater Dogs, Amalgamate). Note that Temmie is NOT a dog according to the code, so the Stick won't work on her.
(2) Revised route for bomb defusal: Lower Left >> Book on Right >> Present Top Left >> Basket-bomb >> Dog >> Bomb Glass (stops in the middle)
(3) There is a switch in the far left tree for the X puzzle looking like Papyrus' face. I tried this during a True Best Ending run and it did not do anything.
(4) Toriel's hand wave attack (spawning the fire balls) can be skipped by just touching the hand as it comes on screen.

Can we add in a "All Yellow Enemy Descriptions" for fun? Tongue Completing all enemies the "correct" way grants a yellow description by their name in the True Best Ending credits. This would ban stick usage, because that's considered an easy shortcut.

EDIT: Some questions for True Best Ending:
1) Can we still kill Flowey at the end of a fresh file and still reload the save and get the true ending? Would make for an amazing donation incentive for GDQ's hehe.
2) What enemies can we Flee from immediately? I'll need to test this, but if anyone knows it would be greatly appreciated.
Edit history:
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-22 12:30:48 am
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-22 12:30:10 am
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-21 10:02:03 pm
Just finished a Genocide Speed run 1:34:13, Probably the current WR - Highlight of the entire run
- youtube video of the run

Ended the run after the last option with the fallen child instead of it crashing the game. Felt like this is a more appropriate time to end the run.
Run can be done at a much faster pace if we find out how encounter rates work and information on mob locations etc. This can be around 1:25 with information like that and not using item on Sans
Hey, I'm the runner of the normal end run in the 1st post there. I've found a couple more things:

Attacking Papyrus every turn is somewhat faster than sparing him since he uses his final special attack early if he gets to low hp. It takes about 12 turns of attacking (w/ the rough glove) vs about 20 turns of sparing. And then you can either spare him if you're going for true end or sucker punch him for normal end.

You can make a detour to Temmie Village and sell the stick, which will give you enough money to buy the gun when you get to the hotel. If you can get criticals with the gun consistently, it should be faster to kill Mettaton EX than to spare him. I think critical hits with the gun will also do more damage than the worn dagger, which would make the asgore fight faster as well.

Solving the colored tile puzzle in the dungeon in hotland is faster since you don't have to wait for the flames to go away. The solution is here:
Edit history:
Celestics: 2015-09-22 10:41:12 am
Gotta go forward!
More True Best Ending Strats:

The Stained Apron recovers 1 HP every other turn, which is MUCH better than the Locket during Asriel because you can heal and avoid a potential 10 sec. time loss if you die.

The gun is better than the Worn Dagger. To get enough money to buy this, have enough gold to get a Cinnamon Bun and the Sea Tea to trade in for gold at the hotel rooms.

When Struggling vs. Asriel's final form:
Attack 1 - Take a hit and just die.
Attack 2 - Dodge.
Attack 3 - Dodge.
Attack 4 - Die. Your next Struggle will immediately finish the sequence.

I completed another run in 2:32:55. I think 2:20:00 is definitely possible.
I got sub-1:30:

There are some places to improve, mostly the Mettaton and Asgore fights, but I'm not sure if that would be enough to get under 1:25. Hopefully we can discover some more major skips.
Sub 1:30 Genocide 1:27:43 WR
Very good run. Bad rng in ruins and snowdin but Hotland/Core made up for it

so hey, do we know the requirements for all the yellow enemy descriptions? now that I think about it, I think that's just about the only thing in true best stopping us from fleeing from all the random encounters apart from getting seven gold for the donut in the ruins.
Edit history:
Celestics: 2015-09-22 08:50:03 pm
Celestics: 2015-09-22 07:52:29 pm
Celestics: 2015-09-22 07:40:52 pm
Gotta go forward!
All Yellow Enemy Descriptions stuffz:

1) Cannot use Stick AT ALL on any dog fights.
2) Must have encountered the enemy at least once and completed without shortcuts, except for certain bosses.
3) True Best Ending.
4) You may use the Spider Donut on Muffet.
5) Basically as long as all descriptions on the credits are yellow subtext for the monsters, you're good.
6) Need multiple pets on Lesser Dog (naglfar).

EDIT: So I guess people in this thread pretty much have their main categories picked out huh Tongue Anyone going to submit this to AGDQ? I'm definitely submitting True Best. Toby doesn't want it on AGDQ (, so let's keep this stuff to ourselves until the game has been out for longer Smiley
True Best: Me, Naglfar
Any%: JS, Frag, qbic (?)
Genocide: Tux
Edit history:
Naglfar: 2015-09-22 10:22:26 pm
yeah, but I'm talking about the specific requirements for the descriptions, as in how to get them? for some enemies, you have to use act commands beyond what's necessary to spare them. lesser dog for example would require more rounds of petting. if we don't quite know, I guess I could put together a list of my best guesses while I'm learning the route.

edit: rip agdq, it wasn't a very good idea anyway
Remembered something that I forgot
Anyone interested in my run Idea of 100% All boss run?

Route is both Masochist and Pacifist but with completely sparing each enemy type once and bring in side secret boss(es) like So Sorry into the mix.

Going to route out this run type for now since their a lot of hidden secrets for Undertale so going to keep it under the works until the community find the Gasper easter egg a possible extra content or backstory under check.
Edit history:
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-23 09:59:19 am
Quote from Th3Hatt3r:
Anyone interested in my run Idea of 100% All boss run?

Route is both Masochist and Pacifist but with completely sparing each enemy type once and bring in side secret boss(es) like So Sorry into the mix.

Going to route out this run type for now since their a lot of hidden secrets for Undertale so going to keep it under the works until the community find the Gasper easter egg a possible extra content or backstory under check.

Sounds pretty rough. Like a pure 100% run is very long almost 3 hours and 50 minutes to 4 hours. Thats a hell of a gauntlet bud

EDIT: We are now on ! If you have a run or a runner i'll give you moderator to submit your runs.
Edit history:
jsbluethree: 2015-09-23 02:23:18 pm
Asgore has 3470 HP. Not 100% sure on this, but I think any attack that would take him below 3000 takes out all the rest of his health. At level 9 with the Empty Gun, a perfect critical hit does about 420 damage. So with perfect play, you could beat Asgore in 8 turns.

Going to try to do the same number crunching with Mettaton EX, soon, as well.

Also @Tux: I'd recommend having the categories be Any% Bad End, Any% Neutral End, Any% True End, and 100% All Bosses
Gotta go forward!
Quote from jsbluethree:

Also @Tux: I'd recommend having the categories be Any% Bad End, Any% Neutral End, Any% True End, and 100% All Bosses

It's just nitpicking at this point, but why not just Genocide/Any%/True Pacifist Ending? The distinction between Bad and Neutral is kinda blurry. What makes All Bosses different from Genocide btw? Is it because of "So Sorry"?
I suggest also adding in All Yellow Enemy Credits. This forces a True Best run that does more than just "not killing anyone" because now you can't simply skip fights with items.

Major Concern: I propose we require 0 reset files for each run - i.e. complete wipe with a deletion of APPDATA folders. This prevents any previous runs from screwing with the events and dialogue of future ones, and it sets the baseline for True Pacifist runs.
now that we have a page, we should consider writing the routes down on pastebins and putting it there.
Edit history:
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-26 12:50:15 am
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-26 12:50:06 am
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-25 10:04:39 pm
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-24 06:28:48 pm
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-24 09:32:11 am
Tuxwizzle: 2015-09-24 09:31:42 am
We could just copy and paste what we say here onto

New routing for any% utilizes Genocide as a tactic to bypass all of hotlands and core. This requires you to genocide ruins, snowdin and waterfall. This makes fights like Toriel, Papyrus and Undyne (normal), Mettaton Obsolete to learn. This requires you to learn Undyne Extreme as a new boss. You no longer have to use Undyne quiz skip, Spider girl skip (unconfirmed whether or not we can spare to cut it shorter), Mettaton Opera skip and learning the puzzle bridge.

Current time is now 1:21:13 -

Vod got cut in two

New Genocide run makes me EVEN HARDER

Credit skip is pretty insane find. Other than that optimization for true best still seems the same