Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds

2012-12-23 03:14:57 am

sda loyalist

I would never have guessed that. Good job anyway, at least that's a simple fix now and won't add much time to the route.

gammadragon

2012-12-30 06:13:25 am

Might be magic...

I'll have a bit more time to attempt this run over the next week. I'm going to make it single segment, but there are a few places which have some random chance involved that will require many attempts (sewers level 1 with the shifting floors, monster movements in hallways, ice caverns ice floors, etc)

I'm aiming for a time just over 32 minutes. Using my current route I don't think it's possible to get under 30 minutes, unless the luck was phenomenal and I left out the Scroll of Daylight. I think I'll leave that up to someone else to achieve.

gammadragon

2012-12-30 07:56:53 pm

Might be magic...

Got myself thinking - instead of grabbing the Scroll of Daylight (takes around 30s) it's faster to pick up one of the spheres on the way through Talorus (takes around 7s). A single sphere's charge lasts until the end of the game and they have the same light level as the Daylight spell. Also, it frees up a slot for another spell effect.

The downside is that it will mean only torch light until hitting Talorus (about 10 minutes into the run).

Alternatively, could grab a lantern from somewhere... I think there's one right near the start in the headless room where the Wand of Lightning is. Usually the fighters near Dorstag drop one too.

Lag.Com

2012-12-31 03:56:36 am

sda loyalist

I honestly don't think the light is that important - UW2 is a lot more brightly lit in general, and you already know where you're going anyway, right? Tongue

Viewers can just guess.

gammadragon

2012-12-31 11:58:57 pm

Might be magic...

I've made hundreds of attempts so far and each one has had some random disaster or awful mistake in it. So many of them in fact, that I'm starting to collect material for a blooper reel.

gammadragon

2013-01-02 03:59:22 pm

Might be magic...

This game is on sale at gog.com for the next 16 hours, along with heaps of other older titles.

gammadragon

2013-01-25 11:32:57 pm

Might be magic...

New save / load glitch found, which should save a lot of time in a segmented run. I'm hoping to bring the total time below 30 minutes.

Here's a Youtube video demo of one place where it should cut about 20 seconds from previous attempts.

Lag.Com

2013-01-26 02:59:02 am

sda loyalist

Did this run really need another dumb bug or two?

The 'momentum carries over even when loading' thing happens in a few games from that era, including Daggerfall. Hmm.

gammadragon

Edit history:

gammadragon: 2013-02-03 12:57:37 am

gammadragon: 2013-01-28 02:06:17 am

2013-01-28 02:03:54 am

Might be magic...

Started a segmented run of this game:
Edit: newer video available

There are already a couple of places where mistakes and movement issues make me cringe, but after 8 hours of attempts it's the best so far.

gammadragon

Edit history:

gammadragon: 2013-02-03 12:59:36 am

2013-02-03 12:57:17 am

Might be magic...

Completed segment 5:

At the moment it's already around 2m 30s faster than my fastest single-segment time. This is mostly due to the fact that a multi-segment run can bypass the random time-wasting areas, like waiting for the gem to light up on the right world and monsters getting in the way.

gammadragon

2013-02-09 02:00:51 am

Might be magic...

After noticing the message pop up during a test run, it looks like there's no need to go to Red Hell at all - it's possible to use any lava to do "The oily mud bakes on your skin", including the small area at the end of the blue path in the void. Not sure why I didn't notice this before! I was sure that Zoranthus said something about using lava from Red Hell, but after checking I can't find that line anywhere.

Also found a few more improvements:

* Get Rock Hammer from Skeleton in Ice Caverns instead of castle armoury (using Flame Wind to kill them)

* Use "Easy Move" when killing Dorstag, to make item usage delay reset more quickly and enemies approach faster

* Faster route in void:
- Blue portal, get Scroll of Fly, go straight to Pyramid
- Make pyramid blue, go through blue portal into blue room
- Portal through wall to purple room, get Djinn Bottle
- Go to Sigil of Binding, bind Djinn, exit through white portal
- Portal to Shrine area, use Altara's rod, get gem, step on green tile, leave through blackrock wall

* Slightly faster route in Tomb of Praecor Loth:
- Skip the Leather Vest of Flameproof, go directly downstairs through portcullis (on a single-segment run, this is dangerous as it's easy to die from the flame balls)
- After taking candle off pentagram, walk into pentagram, turn left, use Portal to get to bottom of chasm in the water, "Easy Move" backwards to teleport straight to Lord Umbria
- After getting horn from Praecor Loth, use Portal to get to lava chasm below

* Slightly faster route in Prison Tower (second trip):
- Use Portal a lot more
- On 7th floor use chain twice then run through closing portcullis and Portal straight through wall ahead

* I think it might also be faster to leave using Altara's Rod in Killorn Keep until just after getting Mors Gotha's Spellbook, but haven't confirmed it. The main speed advantages come from starting closer to the stairs, using Portal to get downstairs quicker and Time Stop to avoid conversation with the guard and to kill self quickly

Given all of the improvements since my initial attempts, it might be possible to get sub-30 minutes in a single-segment run now.

After noticing the message pop up during a test run, it looks like there's no need to go to Red Hell at all - it's possible to use any lava to do "The oily mud bakes on your skin", including the small area at the end of the blue path in the void. Not sure why I didn't notice this before! I was sure that Zoranthus said something about using lava from Red Hell, but after checking I can't find that line anywhere.

Also found a few more improvements:

* Get Rock Hammer from Skeleton in Ice Caverns instead of castle armoury (using Flame Wind to kill them)

* Use "Easy Move" when killing Dorstag, to make item usage delay reset more quickly and enemies approach faster

* Faster route in void:
  - Blue portal, get Scroll of Fly, go straight to Pyramid
  - Make pyramid blue, go through blue portal into blue room
  - Portal through wall to purple room, get Djinn Bottle
  - Go to Sigil of Binding, bind Djinn, exit through white portal
  - Portal to Shrine area, use Altara's rod, get gem, step on green tile, leave through blackrock wall

* Slightly faster route in Tomb of Praecor Loth:
  - Skip the Leather Vest of Flameproof, go directly downstairs through portcullis (on a single-segment run, this is dangerous as it's easy to die from the flame balls)
  - After taking candle off pentagram, walk into pentagram, turn left, use Portal to get to bottom of chasm in the water, "Easy Move" backwards to teleport straight to Lord Umbria
  - After getting horn from Praecor Loth, use Portal to get to lava chasm below

* Slightly faster route in Prison Tower (second trip):
  - Use Portal a lot more
  - On 7th floor use chain twice then run through closing portcullis and Portal straight through wall ahead

* I think it might also be faster to leave using Altara's Rod in Killorn Keep until just after getting Mors Gotha's Spellbook, but haven't confirmed it. The main speed advantages come from starting closer to the stairs, using Portal to get downstairs quicker and Time Stop to avoid conversation with the guard and to kill self quickly

Given all of the improvements since my initial attempts, it might be possible to get sub-30 minutes in a single-segment run now.

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2013-02-09 03:38:30 am

2013-02-09 03:38:24 am

Sandbagging

That's awesome gamma! Really looking forward to this Smiley

gammadragon

2013-02-09 11:20:57 pm

Might be magic...

Managed to complete segment 6 today:

Lag.Com

2013-02-10 04:27:43 am

sda loyalist

This run is going to be awesome. Keep at it Smiley

gammadragon

Edit history:

gammadragon: 2013-02-16 02:00:45 am

2013-02-16 12:27:51 am

Might be magic...

Thanks for watching Smiley

Two more segments today!

Edit: Progress is definitely further than halfway now and it's on track to get a final time of around 27 minutes. That's fairly close to half the time of the previous speedrun by thecybercat, although that one was a single-segment run and mine is a multi-segment.

gammadragon

Edit history:

gammadragon: 2013-03-04 12:16:05 am

gammadragon: 2013-03-03 01:41:16 am

2013-03-02 02:14:25 am

Might be magic...

Segment 9 complete. Not perfect, but pretty good.

I'm considering redoing it, but there's only so many times one can try before insanity sets in.

Edit: Redid the segment saving 6s, including another small enhancement. Still room for improvement though.

Edit 2: Whoops... helps to make the video public, not private :/

gammadragon

Edit history:

gammadragon: 2013-03-25 03:53:02 am

gammadragon: 2013-03-07 03:24:16 am

2013-03-07 03:21:43 am

Might be magic...

There was a comment on one of the Youtube videos that casting the "Portal" spell makes the run quite hard to follow. I might create some maps with the route overlay to show where the portals go.

The maps would be straight from the "uw2ed.exe" map editor, available here

Also, here are my observations of how the Portal spell works:
1) The spell places the Avatar in the centre of the square which is two squares in front of the Avatar's currently occupied square, where the "currently occupied square" is the square which contains the Avatar's centre of mass
2) It only moves the Avatar in the direction of the 8 main compass points - if facing a different angle then it is rounded off to the nearest 45 degrees
3) Casting Portal in a diagonal direction (NE, SE, SW or NW) will move the Avatar two squares horizontally and two squares vertically - for example, casting the spell while facing NE will move the Avatar two squares East and two squares North
4) If the destination square is more than a single step higher than the Avatar's current height, the spell will fail - a "single step" is the normal step size limit which the Avatar can move directly onto without having to jump
5) If the destination square contains a wall in any part of the square (even diagonally) the spell will fail
6) After casting, the Avatar is moved to the same height as the floor - bridges do not count and the spell will always move the Avatar underneath a bridge
7) The spell can place the Avatar in the middle of a teleport square without triggering the teleport - any movement will subsequently trigger the teleportation, but a second portal spell will not

These rules should become more clear when I post the maps.

There was a comment on one of the Youtube videos that casting the "Portal" spell makes the run quite hard to follow. I might create some maps with the route overlay to show where the portals go.

The maps would be straight from the "uw2ed.exe" map editor, available [url="http://bearcity.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/"]here[/url]

Also, here are my observations of how the Portal spell works:
1) The spell places the Avatar in the centre of the square which is two squares in front of the Avatar's currently occupied square, where the "currently occupied square" is the square which contains the Avatar's centre of mass
2) It only moves the Avatar in the direction of the 8 main compass points - if facing a different angle then it is rounded off to the nearest 45 degrees
3) Casting Portal in a diagonal direction (NE, SE, SW or NW) will move the Avatar two squares horizontally and two squares vertically - for example, casting the spell while facing NE will move the Avatar two squares East and two squares North
4) If the destination square is more than a single step higher than the Avatar's current height, the spell will fail - a "single step" is the normal step size limit which the Avatar can move directly onto without having to jump
5) If the destination square contains a wall in any part of the square (even diagonally) the spell will fail
6) After casting, the Avatar is moved to the same height as the floor - bridges do not count and the spell will always move the Avatar underneath a bridge
7) The spell can place the Avatar in the middle of a teleport square without triggering the teleport - any movement will subsequently trigger the teleportation, but a second portal spell will not

These rules should become more clear when I post the maps.

gammadragon

2013-03-08 03:04:52 am

Might be magic...

Segment 10:

Lag.Com

2013-03-08 07:58:27 am

sda loyalist

You're 100% right about how Portal works. I think 'a step' is 1 in-game unit, so that makes sense.

gammadragon

Edit history:

gammadragon: 2013-03-16 12:26:15 am

gammadragon: 2013-03-16 12:25:20 am

gammadragon: 2013-03-16 12:23:43 am

2013-03-15 04:05:04 am

Might be magic...

Started drawing up images of the route, beginning from the first Portal spell:
Pits of Carnage L2

If anyone can see any potential shortcuts along the way, let me know

EDIT: Uploaded the rest up to the current run's progress so far:

Pits of Carnage L3:

Ice Caverns L1:

Ice Caverns L2:

Scintillius Academy L1:

Scintillius Academy L2:

Scintillius Academy L3:

Scintillius Academy L4:

Scintillius Academy L5:

Scintillius Academy L6:

Scintillius Academy L7:

Scintillius Academy L8:

Prison Tower (all levels):

Castle Sewers L4:

Castle British:

Started drawing up images of the route, beginning from the first Portal spell:
Pits of Carnage L2
[url=http://postimage.org/image/enwiu485h/][img]http://s18.postimage.org/enwiu485h/PC_2.jpg[/img][/url]

If anyone can see any potential shortcuts along the way, let me know

EDIT: Uploaded the rest up to the current run's progress so far:
[hidden]
Pits of Carnage L3:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/amgtac2af/][img]http://s15.postimage.org/amgtac2af/PC_3.jpg[/img][/url]

Ice Caverns L1:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/vvuyqku0j/][img]http://s21.postimage.org/vvuyqku0j/IC_1.jpg[/img][/url]

Ice Caverns L2:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/mf2v1ez7j/][img]http://s3.postimage.org/mf2v1ez7j/IC_2.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L1:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/cjd9bsj5p/][img]http://s22.postimage.org/cjd9bsj5p/SA_1.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L2:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/lr0wer0tv/][img]http://s21.postimage.org/lr0wer0tv/SA_2.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L3:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/g05y7ioox/][img]http://s8.postimage.org/g05y7ioox/SA_3.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L4:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/6z0s15kb5/][img]http://s24.postimage.org/6z0s15kb5/SA_4.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L5:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/pwo5w8bgn/][img]http://s23.postimage.org/pwo5w8bgn/SA_5.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L6:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/6izbpvyvp/][img]http://s10.postimage.org/6izbpvyvp/SA_6.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L7:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/68wohp7l1/][img]http://s18.postimage.org/68wohp7l1/SA_7.jpg[/img][/url]

Scintillius Academy L8:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/e21b72kiv/][img]http://s7.postimage.org/e21b72kiv/SA_8.jpg[/img][/url]

Prison Tower (all levels):
[url=http://postimage.org/image/51bwa9udf/][img]http://s13.postimage.org/51bwa9udf/image.jpg[/img][/url]

Castle Sewers L4:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/8m7rthywz/][img]http://s13.postimage.org/8m7rthywz/CS_4.jpg[/img][/url]

Castle British:
[url=http://postimage.org/image/674jxhf1j/][img]http://s7.postimage.org/674jxhf1j/image.jpg[/img][/url]

[/hidden]

gammadragon

2013-03-23 04:23:28 am

Might be magic...

Completed the run! It's uploading now:

Final time is around 24 minutes, which is even better than what I was aiming for. This was helped along with the discovery of a few new shortcuts. I'll make a written commentary eventually.

The savegames created at segment endings are attached.

Attachment:

UW2-Speedrun-gammadragon-AfterSegmentSaves.7z

RAX

Edit history:

RAX: 2013-03-25 03:04:28 am

2013-03-25 03:01:54 am

Less than 24 minutes, standing ovation!
And thanks for your maps, I think we will all appreciate your commentary.

I have a question about the portal spell in gem room: you never did it , and I thought that the room was too far from the stairs, more than two squares horizontally and two squares vertically (but I never tested it by myself). Now I see that with fly spell you perform the portal gemroom_to_stairs, it means that the distance is short enough to do that Shocked

. Clearly You never did that before because you could not reach the height needed to match stairs level from gem room. But I wonder why you did not do it backwards, I mean stairs_to_gemroom, when coming back down the many times you went to Nystul or wherever else in the castle. When you appear in the lower level (after descending the imaginary staircase) you could turn to back/right direction and portal to the gem room, in middle air, then fall down to the floor. This would save a lot, if possible.

gammadragon

2013-03-25 04:00:48 am

Might be magic...

Quote from RAX:

Less than 24 minutes, standing ovation!

Thanks!

Quote from RAX:

I have a question about the portal spell in gem room: you never did it , and I thought that the room was too far from the stairs, more than two squares horizontally and two squares vertically (but I never tested it by myself). Now I see that with fly spell you perform the portal gemroom_to_stairs, it means that the distance is short enough to do that Shocked

. Clearly You never did that before because you could not reach the height needed to match stairs level from gem room. But I wonder why you did not do it backwards, I mean stairs_to_gemroom, when coming back down the many times you went to Nystul or wherever else in the castle. When you appear in the lower level (after descending the imaginary staircase) you could turn to back/right direction and portal to the gem room, in middle air, then fall down to the floor. This would save a lot, if possible.

Good question - unfortunately this is one of the rare places in the game where a useful portal spell only works in one direction. To illustrate it better I've drawn a grid on a zoomed-in image of that area.

Portalling SE to the stairs works because you can just squeeze inside the square with the diagonal wall to then land in the square next to the stairs.
Portalling NW doesn't work because the target square contains a wall, which violates one of the "UW2 Portal Principles" (number 5) listed in the previous post.

Keep looking though, because it's very possible that I've missed a good shortcut somewhere. Also, if you find a way of making the above portal work, that would be pretty awesome - you can use the last savegame from the previous post to skip to that spot in the game.

[quote="RAX"]Less than 24 minutes, standing ovation![/quote]
Thanks!

[quote="RAX"]
I have a question about the portal spell in gem room: you never did it , and I thought that the room was too far from the stairs, more than two squares horizontally and two squares vertically (but I never tested it by myself). Now I see that with fly spell you perform the portal gemroom_to_stairs, it means that the distance is short enough to do that :o . Clearly You never did that before because you could not reach the height needed to match stairs level from gem room. But I wonder why you did not do it backwards, I mean stairs_to_gemroom, when coming back down the many times you went to Nystul or wherever else in the castle. When you appear in the lower level (after descending the imaginary staircase) you could turn to back/right direction and portal to the gem room, in middle air, then fall down to the floor. This would save a lot, if possible.
[/quote]

Good question - unfortunately this is one of the rare places in the game where a useful portal spell only works in one direction. To illustrate it better I've drawn a grid on a zoomed-in image of that area.

[url=http://postimg.org/image/w7huf4ksx/][img]http://s8.postimg.org/w7huf4ksx/CS_4_zoom.jpg[/img][/url]

Portalling SE to the stairs works because you can just squeeze inside the square with the diagonal wall to then land in the square next to the stairs.
Portalling NW doesn't work because the target square contains a wall, which violates one of the "UW2 Portal Principles" (number 5) listed in the previous post.

Keep looking though, because it's very possible that I've missed a good shortcut somewhere. Also, if you find a way of making the above portal work, that would be pretty awesome - you can use the last savegame from the previous post to skip to that spot in the game.

gammadragon

Edit history:

gammadragon: 2013-03-27 02:56:15 am

2013-03-27 12:49:26 am

Might be magic...

I've written up a page in the Knowledge Base for UW2. It seemed like a good place to put the information, and will make the commentary shorter.
https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Ultima_Underworld_II

Lag.Com

2013-03-27 04:54:47 am

sda loyalist

Them's good notes. It's been super hectic since I came home back from America so I'll try to watch your run soon. Smiley