Ultima: Exodus (NES)

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-10-22 08:28:27 am

2012-10-22 08:27:18 am

HELLO!

Update: I'm seeing Intertubes sources claiming you CANNOT get random encounters in dungeons while pressing left or right. Will confirm this when I get home. If so this changes the whole route AGAIN back to in-dungeon gold grinding.

I'd have sworn I got random encounters trying this in the past but I'll try again. Can't hurt. This youtube run never gets one but that run gets amazing luck all around for the first half of the run.

presjpolk

2012-10-22 08:50:34 pm

HELLO!

OK I have to admit I was just wrong. I was *sure* that you'd get encounters while spinning to gain MP inside a cave. But you don't. I just tried it.

Great. Now I have to re-route for cave gold grinding again. Smiley

dunnius

2012-10-22 08:56:52 pm

Intruding N313 and F014

That's how it goes, but at least the end result will be awesome after many iterations.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-10-22 10:56:28 pm

presjpolk: 2012-10-22 10:55:08 pm

presjpolk: 2012-10-22 10:42:34 pm

2012-10-22 10:34:46 pm

HELLO!

Thanks for the encouragement Smiley

Also I just checked Nico... the only exodus FC run I see there is well over two hours, so no secrets to be had there.

Anyway, so let's see. Route now. I'm going to go ahead and try the Rot tactic.

1. Go to Gray, leveling Druid, gaining 2650 gold on the way, on top of the 400 gold I start with, giving me enough for 25 sands and 800 food.

2. Cave of Gold. Grind 5500 gold, get Mark of Fire.

3. Yew. Pray, Silver Horn.

4. Level 5.

5. Ship.

6. Whirlpool.

7. Ambrosia. Get Cards, Buy up one wizard to 80 Int. Put that wizard at head of party, put Druid in back.

8. Whirlpool.

9. Cave of Sol. Mark of Force.

10. Cave of Fire. Mark of Snake.

11. Exodus.

This guy did the work for me optimizing the way to hit every monster in an 8 layout blind:

Quote:

Wizard 1: ROT, Wizard 2: MISSILE, Wizard 3: MISSILE, Char 4: MISSILE
Wizard 1: MISSILE, Wizard 2: LEFT, Wizard 3: LEFT, Char 4: RIGHT
Wizard 1: (nothing) Wizard 2: MISSILE, Wizard 3: MISSILE, Char 4: MISSILE
Wizard 1: (nothing) Wizard 2: MISSILE, ...VICTORY!!!

That takes care of the floors. Rot/nothing/missile/missile will do the trick against pairs of balrons/wyverns/whatever. Everything else falls to rot/missile/sands. I just need enough Sands to survive the (smaller) gold grind.

EDIT: By my estimate I should only get 1300 gold level grinding. Maaaybe I should buy just what sands I can pre-Gray. Buy food after Yew. And sleepy time.

EDIT 2: I lied, still awake. I should get by with fewer sands since with spin-grinding I can ascend indefinitely. Also I need to consider if it's better to descend down to 8 when getting marks, then use a spell to see where I landed. No, that doesn't work for Cave of Fire. Sol, probably. Fire, no. Not worth it for Gold since most of the Gold descent is down a single ladder.

Thanks for the encouragement :)

Also I just checked Nico... the only exodus FC run I see there is well over two hours, so no secrets to be had there.

Anyway, so let's see.  Route now. I'm going to go ahead and try the Rot tactic.

1. Go to Gray, leveling Druid, gaining 2650 gold on the way, on top of the 400 gold I start with, giving me enough for 25 sands and 800 food.

2. Cave of Gold. Grind 5500 gold, get Mark of Fire.

3. Yew. Pray, Silver Horn.

4. Level 5.

5. Ship.

6. Whirlpool.

7. Ambrosia.  Get Cards, Buy up one wizard to 80 Int. Put that wizard at head of party, put Druid in back.

8. Whirlpool.

9. Cave of Sol. Mark of Force.

10. Cave of Fire. Mark of Snake.

11. Exodus.

[url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/587740-ultima-exodus/faqs/52000]This guy did the work for me[/url] optimizing the way to hit every monster in an 8 layout blind:

[quote]Wizard 1: ROT, Wizard 2: MISSILE, Wizard 3: MISSILE, Char 4: MISSILE
Wizard 1: MISSILE, Wizard 2: LEFT, Wizard 3: LEFT, Char 4: RIGHT
Wizard 1: (nothing) Wizard 2: MISSILE, Wizard 3: MISSILE, Char 4: MISSILE
Wizard 1: (nothing) Wizard 2: MISSILE, ...VICTORY!!!
[/quote]

That takes care of the floors.  Rot/nothing/missile/missile will do the trick against pairs of balrons/wyverns/whatever.  Everything else falls to rot/missile/sands.  I just need enough Sands to survive the (smaller) gold grind.

EDIT: By my estimate I should only get 1300 gold level grinding.  Maaaybe I should buy  just what sands I can pre-Gray.  Buy food after Yew. And sleepy time.

EDIT 2: I lied, still awake.  I should get by with fewer sands since with spin-grinding I can ascend indefinitely.   Also I need to consider if it's better to descend down to 8 when getting marks, then use a spell to see where I landed.  No, that doesn't work for Cave of Fire.  Sol, probably. Fire, no.  Not worth it for Gold since most of the Gold descent is down a single ladder.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-10-27 09:03:53 pm

2012-10-27 09:03:06 pm

HELLO!

Wow.

Worked on the game tonight. The route above can be optimized further I think. Not guarenteed, as it takes luck, but you can tweak the route so that the luck costs little, and you can reset until you get it.

The idea now is to do Cave of Gold FIRST THING, and have a Thief head the party in the party in place of a Wizard (keep the Druid in case we get an overworld battle). Descend to level 4, re-ascending and descending if necessary to hit the right 'quadrant' of level 4. Use the light spell (no more candleless, boo) to see if we're in the right quadrant. Clean out the chests with the thief opening them, ascend and repeat twice. That should net around 4500 gold. Then after the third cleanout, descend to get mark of fire, then ascend out, hit Yew, level up to 5. Then, and this is key, at the Castle, save, reset, replace the thief with a wizard, and fire the game back up.

At that point, get the ship, and hit Ambrosia. No sands needed. At all, as far as I can tell. Likely need to buy food either before or after the grinding to level 5, but that's not so bad.

We reset if we hit a bad battle in cave of gold. We reset if the Thief hits bad traps. But again, we're resetting VERY EARLY, before ANY GRINDING.

I'm hyped for trying this again tomorrow.

Wow.

Worked on the game tonight.  The route above can be optimized further I think.  Not guarenteed, as it takes luck, but you can tweak the route so that the luck costs little, and you can reset until you get it.

The idea now is to do Cave of Gold FIRST THING, and have a Thief head the party in the party in place of a Wizard (keep the Druid in case we get an overworld battle).  Descend to level 4, re-ascending and descending if necessary to hit the right 'quadrant' of level 4. Use the light spell (no more candleless, boo) to see if we're in the right quadrant. Clean out the chests with the thief opening them, ascend and repeat twice.  That should net around 4500 gold.  Then after the third cleanout, descend to get mark of fire, then ascend out, hit Yew, level up to 5. Then, and this is key, at the Castle, save, reset, replace the thief with a wizard, and fire the game back up.

At that point, get the ship, and hit Ambrosia. No sands needed.  At all, as far as I can tell.  Likely need to buy food either before or after the grinding to level 5, but that's not so bad.

We reset if we hit a bad battle in cave of gold. We reset if the Thief hits bad traps.  But again, we're resetting VERY EARLY, before ANY GRINDING.

I'm hyped for trying this again tomorrow.

presjpolk

2012-10-28 04:40:12 am

HELLO!

Just realized I need to to get the remaining wizard the mark of fire after I swap the thief in. No biggie though. I can snag it in the Cave of Sol. If I don't do this he'll die in Castle Exodus before I can use him.

presjpolk

2012-10-28 04:59:12 pm

HELLO!

Dunnius and I had some fun this evening. I started the new, new, new route... and it turns out there's some RNG manipulation to be done if I ever want to get the gold room. If I just run the route direct point a to point b, I get the trap room every time. Heh. Weird. Clearly not actually random. Must test in emulator.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-04 03:54:10 pm

2012-11-04 03:51:58 pm

HELLO!

Well I got a run (highlighted). Not the run, but a run. Not great at all, but I actually got through the game. I learned a lot about some strats, and just how much luck is involved in my current route. I think I absolutely need to save before Castle Exodus if I'm going to go with one Rot caster.

As it is I died repeatedly and had to spend gobs of time grinding gold to revive the party. Total time 2:50:11 (Though that's SDA timing, probably more like 2:55 from pressing start). If I make some small adjustments (buy enough sands to survive the Pirate battles, if no others), and save before going to Castle Exodus the first time, then I should easily be able to knock this down sub-2 hours.

Again, terrible. But the youtube run (which gets amazing luck) is 2:26, and the Nico run was about 2:30 (I believe from pressing start, probably more like 2:25 SDA time), but it was uploaded segmented and may have been recorded segmented.

So the WR is in sight. I may not hit my stretch goal of 1:30, I'm not sure. But sub 2 really should be doable here.

[url=http://www.twitch.tv/presjpolk/c/1723737]Well I got a run[/url] (highlighted). Not the run, but a run.  Not great at all, but I actually got through the game. I learned a lot about some strats, and just how much luck is involved in my current route. I think I absolutely need to save before Castle Exodus if I'm going to go with one Rot caster.

As it is I died repeatedly and had to spend gobs of time grinding gold to revive the party.  Total time 2:50:11 (Though that's SDA timing, probably more like 2:55 from pressing start).  If I make some small adjustments (buy enough sands to survive the Pirate battles, if no others), and save before going to Castle Exodus the first time, then I should easily be able to knock this down sub-2 hours.

Again, terrible. But [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY4jsHZf3Yk]the youtube run[/url] (which gets amazing luck) is 2:26, and the Nico run was about 2:30 (I believe from pressing start, probably more like 2:25 SDA time), but it was uploaded segmented and may have been recorded segmented.

So the WR is in sight. I may not hit my stretch goal of 1:30, I'm not sure. But sub 2 really should be doable here.

presjpolk

2012-11-07 06:11:52 pm

HELLO!

Thought I could sneak in a run on my day off, but learned a new way I can have a run lost: In Ambrosia, if a man of war just keeps casting instead of getting in my line of fire... he can kill.

I was like a half hour up on my previous run, too, with another half hour to be gained at Exodus Castle. In other words, I was definitely on pace for sub 2... Blast.

gyth

2012-11-09 05:27:55 pm

Quote:

Exodus Castle Freeze
The TASer was joking.

I'm not joking, it works, but my understanding of the conditions might be wrong.

If you hold B when you reset, it should skip the intro credits.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-09 05:35:25 pm

2012-11-09 05:35:08 pm

HELLO!

Huh. Fascinating. Thank you for posting that. Smiley

Man. Now I need to find out what causes it then. Because if I can reliably skip the Exodus monsters, that still is a decent savings in Exodus Castle, and also a big jump in reliability. I wouldn't have to save beforehand at all.

ZenicReverie

2012-11-09 06:48:42 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Could it have to do with skipping the snake mark? Maybe if the snake isn't removed it doesn't activate the AI for those monsters... just a guess.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-09 07:25:14 pm

2012-11-09 07:21:47 pm

HELLO!

Guess I'll have to test that!

OK testing that in emulator tonight.

gyth

2012-11-09 07:44:04 pm

Your ambrosia ship skip glitch is reproducible. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=331143#331143

Quote:

Could it have to do with skipping the snake mark?

I remember doing it on console as well.
The first dragon can move/attack, but the rest should be frozen/non-aggressive.

presjpolk

2012-11-09 07:45:10 pm

HELLO!

You're my hero gyth. Smiley

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-09 07:47:55 pm

2012-11-09 07:46:48 pm

HELLO!

Seriously I clearly have no clue yet how to really dig in and break a game glitch-wise. This is exciting.

I'm just going to go ahead and play it on console, and see what happens if I do my route but don't get Mark of Snake. Better look up first where I cast that heal though. Smiley

gyth

2012-11-09 07:50:29 pm

It is around 1:20 in your run.

Code:

################################################################
######################        ########################   ##   ##
#######################         ###################### #  # #  #
########################          ###################  ##   ## #
#####   #########     ######      ###             ##    #####  #
####      #   ##        ,,,###    ===             #      ###  ##
####  I                 ,,,,,##   ###                     ## ###
####      #            ,,,,,,,#######             #        #  ##
#####   #####     ###  ,,,,,,,,,###          #######       ##  #
#########   ##  #######,,,,,,,,,,,,          = #####       ### #
########     ####    ####,,,,,,,,,,P        ########       ##  #
##    ##               ##,,,,,,,,,,,,##     =i#####       ##  ##
#  #   ##  #########    ,,,,##,,,,,,,###   #######       ##  ###
# ###   ####    #####  ,,,,####,,,,,#####  = ####     ####  ####
# ###         ####  ##,,,#######,,,,############     ##     #  #
#  ###       ####    #,,#########,,,###   #####     #####      #
##  ##     ######    #,###     ##,,##      ###     ###  ##     #
### ##     #######   ####       ####              ##     ##   ##
##  #      ########  ####        ##          #  ###      #   ###
#  ##       #######   ##         ##          #####     ###  ####
# ####       #####              ####         ####   #####   ####
#   ####      ###              ######         ##  ###        ###
#    #####                 X...####P#            ###          ##
##    #  ###               .    ####             # =   #      ##
##        ####   ###       .     ##             ## ### ##      #
#           ##########     .                  ###   #   ##    ##
#              #########....                 #####  #   ,### ###
#   ##          ########                    ###  #  #  W,,,# = #
#  ######       #######                    ###   #  ##,,,,,#####

It is around 1:20 in your run.
[code]################################################################
######################        ########################   ##   ##
#######################         ###################### #  # #  #
########################          ###################  ##   ## #
#####   #########     ######      ###             ##    #####  #
####      #   ##        ,,,###    ===             #      ###  ##
####  I                 ,,,,,##   ###                     ## ###
####      #            ,,,,,,,#######             #        #  ##
#####   #####     ###  ,,,,,,,,,###          #######       ##  #
#########   ##  #######,,,,,,,,,,,,          = #####       ### #
########     ####    ####,,,,,,,,,,P        ########       ##  #
##    ##               ##,,,,,,,,,,,,##     =i#####       ##  ##
#  #   ##  #########    ,,,,##,,,,,,,###   #######       ##  ###
# ###   ####    #####  ,,,,####,,,,,#####  = ####     ####  ####
# ###         ####  ##,,,#######,,,,############     ##     #  #
#  ###       ####    #,,#########,,,###   #####     #####      #
##  ##     ######    #,###     ##,,##      ###     ###  ##     #
### ##     #######   ####       ####              ##     ##   ##
##  #      ########  ####        ##          #  ###      #   ###
#  ##       #######   ##         ##          #####     ###  ####
# ####       #####              ####         ####   #####   ####
#   ####      ###              ######         ##  ###        ###
#    #####                 X...####P#            ###          ##
##    #  ###               .    ####             # =   #      ##
##        ####   ###       .     ##             ## ### ##      #
#           ##########     .                  ###   #   ##    ##
#              #########....                 #####  #   ,### ###
#   ##          ########                    ###  #  #  W,,,# = #
#  ######       #######                    ###   #  ##,,,,,#####[/code]

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-09 11:34:42 pm

2012-11-09 07:57:08 pm

HELLO!

Reproducing my reply on the other forum here:

I have a theory on this: The ships in Ambrosia will not auto-attack you. I suspect they're not 'real' pirate enemies, but specially coded ones. And they have a ship pre-spawned beneath them, that you just can't get on board unless the monster above it is gone.

BUT, if you have the map regenerated somehow, apparently by casting a spell, it flips the order of the items on that square, and the ship ends up on top. Sounds to me like the fixed pirates in Ambrosia were themselves coded to use an in-game glitchy treatment of two things on the same square, and we're just breaking that glitch to act differently.

EDIT: therefore, I wonder if hitting the Status menu would also trigger it. Or... whether casting a spell/hitting Status would influence monster AI in Exodus Castle. Worth trying.

EDIT 2 (that is, what gyth says below): The game decides which to put on top, the ship or the fake-pirate, when that square is scrolled on screen. Scroll back and forth and it occasionally will give you the ship on top. So stupid simple.

Reproducing my reply on the other forum here:

I have a theory on this:  The ships in Ambrosia will not auto-attack you. I suspect they're not 'real' pirate enemies, but specially coded ones.  And they have a ship pre-spawned beneath them, that you just can't get on board unless the monster above it is gone.

BUT, if you have the map regenerated somehow, apparently by casting a spell, it flips the order of the items on that square, and the ship ends up on top. Sounds to me like the fixed pirates in Ambrosia were themselves coded to use an in-game glitchy treatment of two things on the same square, and we're just breaking that glitch to act differently.

EDIT: therefore, I wonder if hitting the Status menu would also trigger it.  Or... whether casting a spell/hitting Status would influence monster AI in Exodus Castle. Worth trying.

EDIT 2 (that is, what gyth says below): The game decides which to put on top, the ship or the fake-pirate, when that square is scrolled on screen. Scroll back and forth and it occasionally will give you the ship on top.  So stupid simple.

gyth

2012-11-09 10:40:08 pm

So it wasn't the spell, just when the screen changes.
Here the pirate ship thinks its a priest.

presjpolk

2012-11-09 11:18:16 pm

HELLO!

And the enemy freezing is not the Time Lord. It's going to the status screen. If you go to the status screen, hit b to exit, then hit the D pad, then enemies on the current submap (only works on submaps such as towns, castles, and I assume Ambrosia) will NEVER MOVE AGAIN until you let go of the D pad. So broken. But broken in a weird way I don't honestly blame Ponycanyon for not catching.

It was only a stroke of luck that I realized the difference between what the TAS does and what I typically do: the TAS moves optimally. Meaning it never let go of the D pad. Once I did the same, boom, jackpot. You can even run into the wall continuously, just standing there banging into it, standing right below a high-level Castle Exodus monster, and never get attacked. Here's the highlight.

ZenicReverie

2012-11-10 10:29:41 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Sounds like you can steal without guards rushing you as well then. Does that make gold grinding any easier?

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-10 01:56:19 pm

2012-11-10 01:54:29 pm

HELLO!

Quote from ZenicReverie:

Sounds like you can steal without guards rushing you as well then. Does that make gold grinding any easier?

I thought about it last night. But the town chests are still trapped, and it would still take insane luck to grind out 5k gold without hitting lethal and/or full party status effect traps.

And now to stream WR attempts.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2012-11-11 12:58:08 am

presjpolk: 2012-11-11 12:14:37 am

presjpolk: 2012-11-10 11:54:44 pm

2012-11-10 06:58:18 pm

HELLO!

[Edit: 1:43:04].

And this is with two hangups in the run: The ship in Ambrosia WOULD NOT GLITCH for some reason. I wasted a couple of minutes trying to do it before I gave up, and just went to the Shrine of Wisdom instead. Then came back, and it glitched that time. Whew.

The monster freeze glitch I didn't quite use right on Castle Exodus. I needed to fight a certain enemy (the one in the lower-right corner of the corridor outside of the Exodus room, where the corridor bends upward. Then I need to lure the enemies directly south of Exodus, toward that corner. Then I can run in, do the floors, recharging between the two battles without getting ambushed, and win.

I did that the second try, but didn't figure it out in the first try, and died. That wasted 15 minutes.

So, with luck, sub 1:30 is in fact possible after all. I'll probably try it Monday but we'll see.

Edit: Just rewatched it and retimed it. It's not 1:44:30, it's 1:43:04. And actually, with luck, sub 1:20 is possible, not just sub 1:30. But yeah, that'll take luck.

Edit 2: Video is live

[Edit: 1:43:04].

And this is with two hangups in the run:  The ship in Ambrosia WOULD NOT GLITCH for some reason. I wasted a couple of minutes trying to do it before I gave up, and just went to the Shrine of Wisdom instead. Then came back, and it glitched that time. Whew.

The monster freeze glitch I didn't quite use right on Castle Exodus. I needed to fight a certain enemy (the one in the lower-right corner of the corridor outside of the Exodus room, where the corridor bends upward. Then I need to lure the enemies directly south of Exodus, toward that corner. Then I can run in, do the floors, recharging between the two battles without getting ambushed, and win.

I did that the second try, but didn't figure it out in the first try, and died. That wasted 15 minutes.

So, with luck, sub 1:30 is in fact possible after all. I'll probably try it Monday but we'll see.

Edit: Just rewatched it and retimed it.  It's not 1:44:30, it's 1:43:04. And actually, with luck, sub 1:20 is possible, not just sub 1:30.  But yeah, that'll take luck.

Edit 2: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s592wk6vPkU]Video is live[/url]

gyth

2012-11-11 01:12:28 pm

Quote:

The ship in Ambrosia WOULD NOT GLITCH for some reason.

You're usually in line with the forest path.
When it wasn't working you were one tile lower.
That might be it.

gyth

2012-11-11 01:51:37 pm

Quote:

Then I need to lure the enemies directly south of Exodus, toward that corner.

Try just getting them against the bottom wall when you walk past.
They'll be off screen and shouldn't charge you when you're resting.