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Typing of the Dead (Any %) (Single Segment) (Original Mode) (NG+) (No Continues)

Verifier Responses

My first reaction after having watched the run and read through the notes: Reject

I have a few reasons for this, sadly (for me) none of these involve cheating of simular, which would have made this a clear-cut case.

Firstly it is about the video quality. I know TotD has a tendency to tank in framerate during certain parts but from what I can tell the runner doesn't have a decent set-up for recording while playing sense the slowdown is much worse then I would expect. Also the graphical glitches that show up in the texturing makes the run look more then just a little ugly for which I can see no reason other then the need for a more optimised set-up computerwise.

Secondly I have some problems with the choices made during the run. In his notes the runner writes during mission 4:

"f you don't kill that monster in time, the monster pulls the guy back and you go a different (and longer) route to rescue him. For a speed run, this makes saving him essential, which thankfully I did."

This makes every bit of sense, though the runner still fights his way through more then just a few challanges that will only net him a reward in the score section, even during the early parts of the game when he has more then enough life to do so (more then one time he gains life while already at full health) and saving by my guesstimate 20+ seconds. That to me shows that more planning could go into the run.

Thirdly, seeing as people such as Go1den claims to have a better time as well. "Typing of the Dead, Very Hard in 34:40" (Which to this runners defence there seem to be no available video of) I cannot see the reason to add this run to the site for any other reason that to bring more interest to it and to have it replaced with a better planned run sooner rather then later. That or if we want to add a new category that involves "No continues" (which are more or less instant in the game) which from what I could tell from the runners notes was more or less the point of this run as there was a bounty for that specificly.

EDIT: After having read [below]'s post I felt the need to clarify that this run, in my opinion, has no place on the site as an any% run.

As much as I would love to see a TotD run added to the site I do not belive this is the run to take that place.

No signs of cheating. Audio quality is okay, video could be smoother but is acceptable. Why a framerate of 28 ?


Chapter 1: Very minor difference between the two possible pathways. Completing the mission is not considerably longer than failing it.

Chapter 2: Mission costs time! Choosing to shoot the key changes the route till the "STRENGTH" boss and seems overall a bit slower (PEACHES_ did not shoot the key during SGDQ12).

Chapter 3: Mission cost time again, especially with a +1 Life right afterwards...

Chapter 4: Missions...

Chapter 5: Frameskips are getting more annoying, especially during Magician boss fight.

Chapter 6: Mission started and failed...

About the missions: There are two types: "Repeal x zombies" and "Repeal zombies for x seconds". The first type is not as bad in terms of lost time as the second one, because typing speed can cut them short. The runner should (almost) always fail the second type - maybe in the last stage I would understand the decision to stock up lives...

Overall the typing skill of the runner is quite good.

My verdict: If this is really an entry for the any% category I will vote for REJECT. Simply because playing missions makes no sense for this category. Continues cost next to no time and even makes the game choose easier text to type.

If this is a seperate "No continue" category my vote is ACCEPT. There is still room for improvement (i.e the mission in chapter 3) but the run is very solid in terms of tpying.

Quote from KennyMan666:
The voice acting in this game is never going to be not funny.

Except for some suffering framerate, video and audio were good.

At the end of the comments, he says "When I got down to one life, I was pretty sure it was over.. Thankfully, I somehow managed to beat it.", so it's pretty obvious it's meant to be an any% run without deaths. Which I think is a better category than any% with death abuse.

So, in general, I think this was an impressive run. It's kind of a strange game to approach in speedrunning terms, though. But I think the runner pulled it off well.

So, Kenny's going to give this an accept.

This needs to be a no-deaths run, because deaths save time and thus by avoiding deaths, there is a thing.
Also this is the ORIGINAL mode, and not arcade. original allows the use of items acquired during the run and starts with 2 molotovs (kill a zombie). Arcade instant uses items and doesn't have molotovs/painkillers

For anyone who tries to compare this run to one on another difficulty... that doesn't really mean that much This run might've not made it on a higher difficulty for a few reasons.
1. Difficulty only determines the time it takes for a zombie to swing. So a Easy run takes like 4x longer for a zombie to swing than Very hard. So a Very hard deaths run would technically be the fastest as missions could end slightly faster, and intentional damages would come quicker.
      YES this means that difficulty does NOT affect word count/size/length at all. Thats where in game ranking comes from. Since most bosses timing is also ignored by difficulty, as they enforce A/B rank timing and execution, you are forced to rank up in a full game run.

2. The runner doesn't manipulate rank at all, as it seems he is going for high scores/all saves /etc for extra HP which he doesn't always need. Doing the missions keeps HP high, so he can afford to sac some rank a/b's for easier/quicker words. Sloppyness can help out. Especially when the runner is intentionally waiting for axes to be thrown so he can knock them down before typing out the zombie. Instead that time could be used to be "sloppy" with respec tto that zombie and tank a ranking down to C D or E level.
    The game tracks your ranking by increasing a lot for A ranks, moderate increase for B, No Increase for C and small decreases for D and E. So this is important when you compare this to the IDEA of bosses enforcing a A/B rank (you always go for harder material unless you get hit or die).

3. The runner probably holds onto his tranquilizers maybe too long.

This is kinda hard for me to really say. I understand how tough this game is to complete without continuing (i haven't done it yet but have gotten close on arcade and original)

So since i'm borderline, I wanna say REJECT. I just feel like the runner took the first one and while this is an impressive task, he still isn't manipulating the game as much as I'd want... =/ Sorry

Sorry it's a novel.

First up if you want to know what I mean by "word ranks", i.e. what a rank 2 word is etc. check my last post on the TOTD thread. I'm placing the link to the relevant thread (which contains an insightful discussion about the game mechanics, one the runner should probably have a look at), because I couldn't find it with a search for some reason:

Also, Peaches = Peaches' SGDQ'12 run.

A/V: didn't bother me at all.
Commentary: wouldn't have minded even more commentary (yes it's ok and desirable to write detailed notes if there's anything to say, it helps the verifiers)

Actually the initial difficulty setting does affect the word length... at least initially. Later I think it just reaches the usual levels and maxes out if you get enough A's and B's. I just tested this again in Chpt. 1 to see that "easy" gave you rank 2 words up till after talking to G whereas normal is as seen in the video.

So the category needs to be Original Mode No Continues.

The initial state of the game is affected by how often you've finished the chapters and what scores you got, because that determines whether you'll be awarded with an extra health or not. However the only implication to me seems to be that runners who aim for getting the health bonus should make sure they can do that by using a fresh copy of the game or replacing whatever file has the high scores in it. But actually this also means that you don't have to get all civilians rescued etc. for the points, which can make the run faster. Another initial state thing is whether you receive the two molotovs at the start of your Original Mode run, because that's an "unlockable". Maybe we can agree that the player can do that? That would dictate every future runner having to do the same, so there should probably be some sort of decision made on these things. Maybe there's precedents? Does anyone know what we could compare this to? Also, while we established that default options was the way to go for these runs, what about the options that let you raise or lower the hud elements? Is it allowed to make your hud any way you like? That would allow you to type at least one zombie faster. On the other hand is it simpler just to say "use default options" except you can choose UK/US keyboard type?

In this run the player uses the molotovs. Maybe it could be compared to a "New Game+" except the difference is so small that there will never be a "New Game" category as well.

  The game tracks your ranking by increasing a lot for A ranks, moderate increase for B, No Increase for C and small decreases for D and E.

Do you know this or are you assuming it? It might be right, of course. Would make sense... You are right in that the runner should do rank manipulation in places. It hasn't been established to my knowledge what the exact effect of getting those odd E's and other lower ranks on the difficulty is but it's assumed that even a few low ranks make the difficulty rise more slowly.

The best way to keep yourself healthed up is to type perfectly. When the perfect gauge starts getting high enough you'll start getting lives at a staggering pace. I know how excruciating it would be to have to rely on perfect typing in one's strategy, though. In this game, there's no such thing as perfect execution. You can't expect the run to be submitted by the world's most accurate and fast typer. However, if you spent just a little more time with difficult words to get them right, you might be able to use all the damage-taking speed strats that Peaches uses for his run, which is of course of a different category.

Chapter 1

1. He shouldn't have saved the third civilian in the little yard area after passing the well, because it's faster to let him die, then finish typing the zombie (getting a lower rank too).

2. The two axe-throwers can easily be typed before the first axe hits you, so I think that would've saved time here.

3. Doing this mission was probably a good choice. Typing was really fast here.

4. The bridge-jumper can be made an E out of theoretically, if you can see his word early enough, because the game only proceeds when he's landed, whether or not he is alive at that point. This is what I was referring to by changing the hud to make a zombie easier to type.

5. Saving the girl at the end took around 12s longer than letting her go. If that time had been spent making sure (I know you can't ever be 100% sure) you're typing correctly, you'd probably have already gotten the one-up from that AND you'd have a combo going that allows you to keep getting lives in the boss fight/next chapter.

Chapter 2

1. Like others mentioned, the mission here shows that the runner had not thought this thing through. He was at 4 health, even gets a "gauge" health-up in the middle meaning the whole thing was wasted.

2. I tried to calculate whether the submitter loses relatively more time over the course of getting from the key to downing Strength than for the rest of the run (the part where his and Peaches' run have a different route). I couldn't get a conclusive result, so I suggest the runner consult Peaches (and possibly T3tsuya) about how they arrived at their routes. I haven't tested it either so I can't tell.

3. Taking a completely unnecessary damage from the barrel-tosser by not typing the barrel first after getting the key.

Chapter 3

1. Like others mentioned, the mission was completely unnecessary.

I don't really have that many comments from this point on because I only know Chapter 1 really well and because it's up in the air what route is best seeing as Peaches uses a different one.

2. I can see Tower being a challenge when you're at a high difficulty because of the short time you're given per answer. The runner uses all his items here. The first molotov looked a little too cautious, but the rest of phase 2 was ok.

Chapter 4

1. The runner is at full health and gets two health-ups before the mission (one from the gauge). That would suggest he could easily have cut corners earlier.

This chapter went really well typing speed -wise. Only 3 B's.

Chapter 5

It's hard not to take damage in this chapter, but the first damage is taken because of typing words in the wrong order and as such looks a little sloppy. Even so it is negated by the health pick-up because the runner already had 5 health at the beginning. It's possible to type the Peters (the zombie with the chest parasite) first, but it is a risk at the high difficulty the runner is at. In fact the runner klutches it out after getting to the car. Props for that.

Chapter 6

1. So of course you'd hope that the runner had lives to spare for failing the missions, but the bosses are just brutal, especially Emperor. How come do you have to shower to exist? Smiley

2. Sometimes you take damage from Emperor's balls (the four balls) and sometimes you don't. I think it's something like if you managed to type 3 of them you don't take damage from the last one. Does anyone know?


So the runner should make sure he has the fastest route and adjust his health management plan a little. He should probably read the TOTD thread too and consult the other runners. He is a fast enough typer, so I'm sure that's not going to be a problem with accepting a future resubmission.


The categorization thing seemed like an issue, so I responded.
Quote from Flip:
OK, so if we categorize this as a "Single-Segment run with No Continues," would that affect any of your verdicts?

No, it still has other problems. I was assessing it as a submission in that category. Now that you mentioned it's good to include "Single-segment" in the category, because someone might potentially want to try IL's later.

Wouldn't really change my verdict.

I am standing by my verdict. This is mostly because I still feel like the run is in infancy. He could still use some manipulation work. He is a fast typer and from seeing this, I'm sure he could rebound and do better. Though that might be tricky still.

I still stand fast at my verdict as well. Even more so now then when I wrote my first post. I have been thinking about it sense then and still cannot bring myself to find another awser then to reject the run based on lack of planning and execution rather then the skill of the player.

I am however looking forward to the run this player can produce.

Anyway, I gave it a rewatch. And in light of it, I'm changing my verdict to a weak reject.

It's an impressive run, no doubt about it. He's a fast typer, and I think that No Continues is the best category - given SDA categorizing, I'd call this the primary any% category (though maybe NG+ given the bonus molotovs) and a run that uses continues would have to be the death abuse category.

But yeah.

Things I noted on the rewatch:
- He keeps letting civilians live, but that sometimes costs time over letting them die. I'm not sure if it's always faster to let them die, but I definitly think he saved too many.
- With this typing speed there should be no problem typing the zombies that throw things before their thrown things.
- Would be good to know if it's really faster to get the key.
- In stage 3, he picks up a Pain Killer when he already has four items, thus losing one molotov. This could probably have been used earlier to clear some group of zombies faster. I'm also not sure the stage 3 boss is really the best place to use those other molotovs. They would probably be better utilized in screens with 2-3 or so zombies with long words... which there's no shortage of in the following stages.
- Kind of agreeing on the missions, he could have expended lives to save time.


It's a good run. But it's a bit rough. A little more planning could do wonders for it because I really want to see a run of this game on the site.

Decision: Reject

Reason: The execution is good but it seems the planning is still lacking.

This run will be available for a month. After that this link will no longer work.
Thread title:  
There still needs to be a decision about the molotovs as an "unlockable". Allowed or not allowed? As for the health bonus you either get or don't get at the end of a chapter based on your score and previous scores, my view is the runner has to manipulate it in his/her favor.
Surprising noone as I was the one who gave it an accept originally, that last one who changed his mind after a rewatch is me too.
Edit history:
UraniumAnchor: 2013-05-23 09:53:05 am
Not a walrus
Quote from LotBlind:
There still needs to be a decision about the molotovs as an "unlockable". Allowed or not allowed?

Molotovs count as NG+. Much like Shadow Complex where you keep your experience levels and the unlocked gold guns.
I can see the logic, but seeing as the difference between NG and NG+ is just those molotovs, there can't really be separate categories can there? There's already Original/Arcade mode and Continues/No continues and maybe IL/SS if someone wants to do IL's later. That's why I'm posing the question before anyone else submits a run.
What it amounts to is that probably nobody will run NG for this game.