Twilight Princess (GCN)

2007-02-16 11:14:48 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

i think someone found a way to clear the stalactites by throwing bombs at the right time.

Why do we even have to do the 2nd fight with king bulbin? if its just b/c we need zora armor, couldnt we use the wolf's super jump off the birds to jump into the graveyard?

if its possible to kill Bulbin with the clawshot, isn't that a solution?

I_HATE_SDA

Kirby8943

Edit history:

Kirby8943: 2007-02-16 11:26:19 pm

2007-02-16 11:25:30 pm

I HATE SDA!! (Kirby8943)

i think someone found a way to clear the stalactites by throwing bombs at the right time.

Yeah with the boomerang. Cheesy

Paraxade

Edit history:

Paraxade: 2007-02-16 11:31:01 pm

2007-02-16 11:29:53 pm

Quote:

Why do we even have to do the 2nd fight with king bulbin? if its just b/c we need zora armor, couldnt we use the wolf's super jump off the birds to jump into the graveyard?

Well, as you said, we need it for the Lake Hylia warp... and to get anywhere at all in Lakebed. >_>;

EDIT:

Quote:

Wow there has to be something wrong, Mr. Potter did you skip anything by warping? Did you kill king Buiblin to rescue Colin? Did you skip taming Epona? Did you warp to Ordon to get the Iron boots?

Um, I restored light to Eldin, then I went to Death Mountain and got hit by the Goron, then I warped to Kakariko and tamed Epona. Then I warped to Ordon and got the Iron Boots, warped to Death Mountain, and climbed up.

Lazylen

2007-02-16 11:32:08 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

so are you saying its possible to get the zora armor that way?

because it seems that a superjump gets just slightly more height than a HS2+Bomb.

YautjaElder

2007-02-16 11:35:57 pm

Speed is the key.

Quote:

so are you saying its possible to get the zora armor that way?

because it seems that a superjump gets just slightly more height than a HS2+Bomb.

Even if you go in there, you wont get the zora armor. The only thing that triggers the rutela sequence is escorting ralis to kakariko.

ELECTRONICS

2007-02-16 11:43:48 pm

Nemo spelled backwards is Omen.

Mr. Potter!!!!!! You need to enter Kakariko by jumping the fence with epone to trigger saving Colin, I garentee 100% it will work then.

I_HATE_SDA

Kirby8943

Edit history:

Kirby8943: 2007-02-17 02:11:32 am

2007-02-16 11:49:26 pm

I HATE SDA!! (Kirby8943)

Quote:

Mr. Potter!!!!!! You need to enter Kakariko by jumping the fence with epone to trigger saving Colin, I garentee 100% it will work then.

Did you try it! It would be so cool if MS early wouldnt be a game ending glitch(since you can't get past the gorons)

Paraxade

2007-02-16 11:57:21 pm

Just tried, didn't work. Maybe it's because I'd already been up there before fighting him, though.

ELECTRONICS

2007-02-17 12:03:00 am

Nemo spelled backwards is Omen.

Alright, im gonna try myself.

Paraxade

2007-02-17 12:04:59 am

Early Master Sword Fun #2

ELECTRONICS

2007-02-17 12:32:40 am

Nemo spelled backwards is Omen.

Dangit! it didnt work. I dunno what is causing them to act like this. GRR. I didnt get the king bulbin fight though. And Renado is still asking me to go to ordon.

Paraxade

2007-02-17 12:52:56 am

>_>

Maybe we should try doing this part completely normally (aka: no warping).

ELECTRONICS

Edit history:

ELECTRONICS: 2007-02-17 01:16:28 am

2007-02-17 01:06:06 am

Nemo spelled backwards is Omen.

I did no warping. But renado still thinks I need to go to ordon, maybie its my all items cheat >.> But I never had problems before..

EDIT: just triggured king bulbin. Will see whats gonan hapen.

Paraxade

2007-02-17 01:17:03 am

ELECTRONICS, I know he challenges me. After he challenges me, the conversation ends. Then when I talk to him again, he says "So you think you're strong, hm? Let us find out!" Then the conversation ends. Then when I talk to him again, he gives me the loss message.

Lazylen

2007-02-17 01:17:42 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

how do you get so much height for the master sword early glitch? I can barely get off the ground and in the video you went flying through the air. o_O

Paraxade

2007-02-17 01:20:39 am

You won't get very much height unless you wait for it to raise its hand to attack, then walk a couple steps closer, THEN release B.

ELECTRONICS

Edit history:

ELECTRONICS: 2007-02-17 01:36:35 am

2007-02-17 01:32:16 am

Nemo spelled backwards is Omen.

Thats weird how the guards move but there collision stays.

So the game acts like we beated Goron Mines?

Solr_Flare

2007-02-17 01:37:48 am

I think the early Master Sword has just caused a catch 22 situation with the Gorons. What really seems to stop the sequence breaking in the way the scripting works. In something like Metroid Prime it could adapt(or just crash) when done out of order. In twilight Princess it works like this:

To get past x lock you need to get y key.

Obtaining y key also makes z changes to the world.

Now, lets say you go out of order and obtain key Y2 first

Getting Y2 unlocks X2, and also makes Z2 changes to the world. *but* It des't make retroactive changes. So, X1 is still locked until you get Y1.

So, what's happened in the case of getting the Master Sword early is this:

By getting the Master Sword the game thinks you are at the point where you should be when you normally get the master sword. You can tell by how the layout of the Goron room looks when you go in there. *But* the Lock to the Death Mountain temple is still in place.

As such, you're now caught in a catch 22. The game thinks you are at the Master Sword point, but at the same time you're locked out of Death Mountain so it wants to offer it to you. Thusthe ask but fail situation with the elder. The Elder wants to offer you the key you need(sumo fighting) but the room's state is now locked into Post Master Sword mode, thus the fight can't be started.

Unless we find another way in, or a way to skip Death Mountain entirely, early MS isn't going to be useful. And even then you have to remember too, while a way may be found to eventually let you get the MS early and it work, we're going to have to weigh whether or not it actually saves time.

For example, all this talk of going to Death Mountain early, getting it unlocked, then going back to get the Master Sword early. I ask you if getting the master sword early is even worth it speed run wise at that point because you're going to lose a lot of time traveling back and forth like that.

I think the early Master Sword has just caused a catch 22 situation with the Gorons.  What really seems to stop the sequence breaking in the way the scripting works.  In something like Metroid Prime it could adapt(or just crash) when done out of order.  In twilight Princess it works like this:

To get past x lock you need to get y key.

Obtaining y key also makes z changes to the world.

Now, lets say you go out of order and obtain key Y2 first

Getting Y2 unlocks X2, and also makes Z2 changes to the world.  *but*  It des't make retroactive changes.  So, X1 is still locked until you get Y1.

So, what's happened in the case of getting the Master Sword early is this:

By getting the Master Sword the game thinks you are at the point where you should be when you normally get the master sword.  You can tell by how the layout of the Goron room looks when you go in there.  *But* the Lock to the Death Mountain temple is still in place.

As such, you're now caught in a catch 22.  The game thinks you are at the Master Sword point, but at the same time you're locked out of Death Mountain so it wants to offer it to you.  Thusthe ask but fail situation with the elder.  The Elder wants to offer you the key you need(sumo fighting) but the room's state is now locked into Post Master Sword mode, thus the fight can't be started.

Unless we find another way in, or a way to skip Death Mountain entirely, early MS isn't going to be useful.  And even then you have to remember too, while a way may be found to eventually let you get the MS early and it work, we're going to have to weigh whether or not it actually saves time.

For example, all this talk of going to Death Mountain early, getting it unlocked, then going back to get the Master Sword early.  I ask you if getting the master sword early is even worth it speed run wise at that point because you're going to lose a lot of time traveling back and forth like that.

Paraxade

2007-02-17 01:42:50 am

I think that if we're going to make early Master Sword worth it, we need to glitch through the Gorons. To get out, we'd use Ooccoo, who places you in front of the door to Gor Coron's room. So glitching back to the first side of the Gorons isn't a problem, just entering the Goron Mines.

ELECTRONICS

2007-02-17 02:09:45 am

Nemo spelled backwards is Omen.

don't attempt jumping in front of the entrence, i tryed moonjumping, invisible wall til the ceiling. Only way I got in was super clawshots.

Manocheese

2007-02-17 02:12:42 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

don't attempt jumping in front of the entrence, i tryed moonjumping, invisible wall til the ceiling.

You couldn't get it to work, so no one else should even try? That makes a lot of sense...

ELECTRONICS

2007-02-17 02:21:01 am

Nemo spelled backwards is Omen.

Im just saying theres an invisible wall to the ceiling in front of the entrencd.

DeweyIsOverrated

2007-02-17 02:43:40 am

Quote:

(sorry for bringing up OoB again, but ...)
And here's hoping YautjaElder completes his run!!!

Not to take credit away form YE, but I'm amazed at how people (myself included, in the past) think that this guy is the God of TP, when he has yet to show us anything past FT. No one gives Jiano (6:16) , myself (although I haven't posted my 6:19 time yet, so that's my fault) or Zoom (6:22) any credit. We SEEM to be the only ones consistently running the game, and everyone just seems to be taking the approach "eh, that's great, YE will just destroy it", while YE is either starting over because he found a 2 second timesaver on a 12 minute segment, or "waiting a few months because I'm waiting for research to find if the 2 minute timesaver pays off."

I'm not complaining that I want attention or anything. Jiano has the best time so far, and has, so far an even better run up, and track record shows that he WILL finish it relatively soon,so he should be getting the attention. Yeah, YE has some damn good segments up. And yeah, I realize that with his "perfect" segments logically he'll have the best time. But just keep in mind, until he actually does that, Jiano is the best runner here.

BTW none of this is YE's elder's fault, he isn't promoting any of this. I WISH I had the patience to try segments over like he does, but I don't.

[quote](sorry for bringing up OoB again, but ...)
And here's hoping YautjaElder completes his run!!![/quote]

Not to take credit away form YE, but I'm amazed at how people (myself included, in the past) think that this guy is the God of TP, when he has yet to show us anything past FT.  No one gives Jiano (6:16) , myself (although I haven't posted my 6:19 time yet, so that's my fault) or Zoom (6:22) any credit.  We SEEM to be the only ones consistently running the game, and everyone just seems to be taking the approach "eh, that's great, YE will just destroy it", while YE is either starting over because he found a 2 second timesaver on a 12 minute segment, or "waiting a few months because I'm waiting for research to find if the 2 minute timesaver pays off."

I'm not complaining that I want attention or anything. Jiano has the best time so far, and has, so far an even better run up, and track record shows that he WILL finish it relatively soon,so he should be getting the attention.  Yeah, YE has some damn good segments up.  And yeah, I realize that with his "perfect" segments logically he'll have the best time.  But just keep in mind, until he actually does that, Jiano is the best runner here.

BTW none of this is YE's elder's fault, he isn't promoting any of this.  I WISH I had the patience to try segments over like he does, but I don't.

Lazylen

2007-02-17 02:51:14 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

considering how many new tricks are discovered every week as of late, I dont think that doing a run at this point will become of anything. Once the person is done with the run, the next person in line will be halfway through theirs and using more advanced tricks.

Paraxade

2007-02-17 03:58:55 am

Quote:

Early Master Sword Fun #2

Done processing now.