Twilight Princess (GCN)

2010-09-04 05:08:28 pm

dem tokay

Mystery, if we weren't willing to put forth effort to create a run, there would be no runs coming out at all, and yet, three very high quality runs have come out of the Zelda speedrunning community in the last couple months: My Minish Cap, Pokey's Ocarina of Time, and Jiano's Majora's Mask. On top of that, there's also a new Link's Awakening: DX run finished around the same time as Pokey's run.

To say that nobody is willing to put forth the effort for a run is stupid and just plain ignorant. As I have said, Chimpas in working on a run. ComboKing is practicing for a run. People have and are putting work into new runs, and while I've stayed isolated exclusively to Zelda runs, there's effort being put in on all kinds of games for lots of different series and consoles.

Listen, I know I sound like a gigantic prick here, but THINK. Think for a second. It is not about you, it is about what the runner wants to do. And if that is to play a completely different game, just accept it and don't make ridiculous posts that insult the entire Zelda speedrunning community, hell, the speedrunning community in general, as a whole.

You're probably thinking what kind of drug I'm on right now, but if you want to come out here and say that people can not stand up to a simple TP run, we are working on our own runs that require much more skill and/or luck than TP will ever need. In conclusion... Make one yourself. As Paraxade said, it's annoying to check this thread just to see people complaining about there not being a new run and how our attitude towards it sucks.

Well, your attitude towards us sucks. Think before you make a post like that.

Mystery, if we weren't willing to put forth effort to create a run, there would be no runs coming out at all, and yet, three very high quality runs have come out of the Zelda speedrunning community in the last couple months: My Minish Cap, Pokey's Ocarina of Time, and Jiano's Majora's Mask.  On top of that, there's also a new Link's Awakening: DX run finished around the same time as Pokey's run.

To say that nobody is willing to put forth the effort for a run is stupid and just plain ignorant.  As I have said, Chimpas in working on a run.  ComboKing is practicing for a run.  People have and are putting work into new runs, and while I've stayed isolated exclusively to Zelda runs, there's effort being put in on all kinds of games for lots of different series and consoles.

Listen, I know I sound like a gigantic prick here, but THINK.  Think for a second.  It is not about you, it is about what the runner wants to do.  And if that is to play a completely different game, just accept it and don't make ridiculous posts that insult the entire Zelda speedrunning community, hell, the speedrunning community in general, as a whole.

You're probably thinking what kind of drug I'm on right now, but if you want to come out here and say that people can not stand up to a simple TP run, we are working on our own runs that require much more skill and/or luck than TP will ever need.  In conclusion...  Make one yourself.  As Paraxade said, it's annoying to check this thread just to see people complaining about there not being a new run and how our attitude towards it sucks.

Well, your attitude towards us sucks.  Think before you make a post like that.

Mystery

Edit history:

Mystery: 2010-09-05 01:54:02 am

Mystery: 2010-09-05 01:44:41 am

2010-09-05 01:43:59 am

I think you are misinterpreting my words...

Quote from SD2:

Mystery, if we weren't willing to put forth effort to create a run, there would be no runs coming out at all, and yet, three very high quality runs have come out of the Zelda speedrunning community in the last couple months: My Minish Cap, Pokey's Ocarina of Time, and Jiano's Majora's Mask. On top of that, there's also a new Link's Awakening: DX run finished around the same time as Pokey's run.

Perhaps a better way to put it is:
The effort that apparently has go into making a new TP run just makes it non-ideal for a lot of runners. They simply don't want to put that effort into it.
That is obviously why we're in this situation right now, isn't it?
So what I wanted to put forth was: it's not that there are some people working on it, it's just that a lot of runners simply don't want to.

Quote:

Listen, I know I sound like a gigantic prick here, but THINK. Think for a second. It is not about you, it is about what the runner wants to do. And if that is to play a completely different game, just accept it and don't make ridiculous posts that insult the entire Zelda speedrunning community, hell, the speedrunning community in general, as a whole.

Not trying to insult anyone. If anyone sees any replies as a result, then I sincerely apologize. I mean no such thing.
I am fully aware that it's to the runner to decide what to run and when. I'm just saying what the viewers want to see.
Of course, no runner has any obligation to satisfy what a viewer wants. All I want to say is that you feel honored that people are expressing their desire to see a new run--a work of a dedicated runner. They are thinking of you!
Of course, there will be some assholes who don't give a crap about the runners and just want to see the run. Those we can ignore.

Quote:

You're probably thinking what kind of drug I'm on right now, but if you want to come out here and say that people can not stand up to a simple TP run, we are working on our own runs that require much more skill and/or luck than TP will ever need. In conclusion... Make one yourself. As Paraxade said, it's annoying to check this thread just to see people complaining about there not being a new run and how our attitude towards it sucks.

Ah, if ever I had the dedicated and time to do something like that. I don't...
So I appreciate and love what the runners do here and instead watch their work and praise them for it.

Quote:

Well, your attitude towards us sucks. Think before you make a post like that.

I'm sorry if my reply came off as something bad Sad

That was never my intention.
I sincerely apologize to anyone it might have offended.

I fully understand your point of view, and I fully understand the point of view of the viewer.
It feels like there is a rift between them here, and I simply don't want runners to go berserk on people innocently asking if there is some progress.

I have GREAT respect for all the runners here and yes, I would love to see a new TP run, but I don't want to force anyone here to do it. They will do it if they feel like it, and that's good enough for me.
Please don't feel like I am being rude or negative towards you. I have great respect.

I think you are misinterpreting my words...

[quote="SD2"]Mystery, if we weren't willing to put forth effort to create a run, there would be no runs coming out at all, and yet, three very high quality runs have come out of the Zelda speedrunning community in the last couple months: My Minish Cap, Pokey's Ocarina of Time, and Jiano's Majora's Mask.  On top of that, there's also a new Link's Awakening: DX run finished around the same time as Pokey's run.[/quote]
Perhaps a better way to put it is:
The effort that apparently has go into making a new TP run just makes it non-ideal for a lot of runners. They simply don't want to put that effort into it.
That is obviously why we're in this situation right now, isn't it?
So what I wanted to put forth was: it's not that there are some people working on it, it's just that a lot of runners simply don't want to.

[quote]Listen, I know I sound like a gigantic prick here, but THINK.  Think for a second.  It is not about you, it is about what the runner wants to do.  And if that is to play a completely different game, just accept it and don't make ridiculous posts that insult the entire Zelda speedrunning community, hell, the speedrunning community in general, as a whole.[/quote]
Not trying to insult anyone. If anyone sees any replies as a result, then I sincerely apologize. I mean no such thing.
I am fully aware that it's to the runner to decide what to run and when. I'm just saying what the viewers want to see.
Of course, no runner has any obligation to satisfy what a viewer wants. All I want to say is that you feel honored that people are expressing their desire to see a new run--a work of a dedicated runner. They are thinking of you!
Of course, there will be some assholes who don't give a crap about the runners and just want to see the run. Those we can ignore.

[quote]You're probably thinking what kind of drug I'm on right now, but if you want to come out here and say that people can not stand up to a simple TP run, we are working on our own runs that require much more skill and/or luck than TP will ever need.  In conclusion...  Make one yourself.  As Paraxade said, it's annoying to check this thread just to see people complaining about there not being a new run and how our attitude towards it sucks.[/quote]
Ah, if ever I had the dedicated and time to do something like that. I don't...
So I appreciate and love what the runners do here and instead watch their work and praise them for it.

[quote]Well, your attitude towards us sucks.  Think before you make a post like that.[/quote]
I'm sorry if my reply came off as something bad :( That was never my intention.
I sincerely apologize to anyone it might have offended.

I fully understand your point of view, and I fully understand the point of view of the viewer.
It feels like there is a rift between them here, and I simply don't want runners to go berserk on people innocently asking if there is some progress.

I have GREAT respect for all the runners here and yes, I would love to see a new TP run, but I don't want to force anyone here to do it. They will do it if they feel like it, and that's good enough for me.
Please don't feel like I am being rude or negative towards you. I have great respect.

UchihaSasuke

2010-09-05 04:37:27 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

there's no 100% of TWW either and yet i don't see anyone complaining over that.

i think people need to chill and watch different runs in the meanwhile.

Renokye

2010-09-05 09:48:16 am

Touhou anyone? :D

I'm thinking about at least trying to speedrun TP. I've never attempted to do a speedrun of anything before, so I guess this will be interesting for me when I get to it.

Silent watcher

2010-09-05 02:54:56 pm

I've been browsing this thread since it started back in the day because it's one of my favourite games, and I don't think I'm the only one. I understand the runner's contempt because I myself was kindof bored once I finished it casually, but I still loved every minute of playing it because of the great atmosphere, but my interest in seeing it done in the fastest time possible never subsided.
So now I was wondering why noone took up the mantle to improve the existing run on the frontpage to the newest discoveries (from what I've heard chopping off approximately 30 minutes on a 4 hour record would a) be seriously awesome for anyones reputation running it and b) be a much needed incentive for people to put further work in improving the time/discover new breaks/find out how existing breaks can be improved).
I have utter respect for every professional runner here even if they get bored (which is understandable even for casual players). If there is already a run started on the various Zelda wikis and stuff I'm sorry for requesting (not demanding) doubly, because I don't frequent those pages.

Kingnahum18

2010-09-09 01:39:59 pm

Get 'er Done!

People have started, but never finished. TPFox could have taken off at least 25 minutes by the end of his. Since the fastest this could be done would be in segments (manipulation in this game is frustratingly hard). It would take a very long time to get an optimal (or even ALMOST optimal) run. There are so many people on this site that knows what a good TP run looks like, that if an even slightly terrible run was put up, it would be a disappointment. What people want to see is the BEST possible run a runner can do, not a half-ass run that only shaves off 30 minutes when more could be done.

If you have tried to run a game as best as you can, you know how hard it is to make a good one when the game is optimally over 3 1/2 hours. It takes a very long time, and gets old.

Though I'm still wondering why you have posted your previous post after reading the last 30 or so responses on why people aren't running this any more. I simply summarized all of them in a nice way in case you didn't. If you want to gain a good reputation then you should probably try yourself. Most of us here have gotten tired of playing the game for a while.

People have started, but never finished. TPFox could have taken off at least 25 minutes by the end of his. Since the fastest this could be done would be in segments (manipulation in this game is frustratingly hard). It would take a very long time to get an optimal (or even ALMOST optimal) run. There are so many people on this site that knows what a good TP run looks like, that if an even slightly terrible run was put up, it would be a disappointment. What people want to see is the BEST possible run a runner can do, not a half-ass run that only shaves off 30 minutes when more could be done.

If you have tried to run a game as best as you can, you know how hard it is to make a good one when the game is optimally over 3 1/2 hours. It takes a very long time, and gets old.

Though I'm still wondering why you have posted your previous post after reading the last 30 or so responses on why people aren't running this any more. I simply summarized all of them in a nice way in case you didn't. If you want to gain a good reputation then you should probably try yourself. Most of us here have gotten tired of playing the game for a while.

KingOfHeart

2010-10-04 12:19:34 pm

Is there any more videos of this version of BITE?

13013

(user is banned)

2010-10-05 05:50:26 pm

Yes Mario Riding A Pole

Why would anyone get tired of a game? I don't see a point if your much of a fan of one game. People need to actually take the time and do a run of 100% Then once they did that, they can tell people to screw off. I don't think people should complain that people are complaining and i don't think people should bitch that this game is hard when there are plenty of other games, which are a thousand times harder, and reasons to not run this 100%. I think it's stupid not to have the 100% run up when it can be done and nobody would give a rats ass that the run would be up anyways if it was not 100% to the best it can be because then that would defeat the purpose of speed running.

13 0 13 singing out

P.S. DO NOT FLAME OR HATE ON ME.

SD2

2010-10-05 07:02:32 pm

dem tokay

So wait, you're saying that we should do a 100% run just because we can? Who cares about the quality of the run, we just want a second run on the page to say there'a 100% run of this game?

What kind of flawed, viewer-oriented logic is that? I'm sorry, but that postmark was asking for flaming, as was the body of the post.

RingRush

2010-10-05 07:31:28 pm

*Request to get 13013's post removed before this spirals out into an argument again*

So, how bout them morpheels?

Manocheese

2010-10-05 07:43:05 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from 13013:

People need to actually take the time and do a run of 100% ... I think it's stupid not to have the 100% run up when it can be done

Okay, get started and post here again when you're done (and not before).

Flip

2010-10-05 07:54:29 pm

1-Up!

Okay, let's stop this before it gets started again.

13013, you are not in any way entitled to a 100% run of this game. It's kinda obvious - if you want it so badly, do it yourself. Quit telling people they should do the 100% run. Nothing you say is going to make them stop and say "Oh hey, I really ought to crank out a run even though I've explicitly stated that I have no interest."

If you're really really interested in getting a run on the site, but don't want to do it yourself, put your money where your mouth is.

Ringrush, we try not to ever delete posts. If I had, more than likely it wouldn't have all washed over anyway.

Mystery

2010-10-06 12:26:14 am

I believe 13013 is just trying to convey that laziness and difficult isn't an excuse for not doing a run.
Do a 100% run and THEN you have the right to be lazy.
That doesn't necessarily imply a BAD run, though.

Again, not my words.
Though I do not necessarily agree. We DO get tired of games, and I believe it's up to the runners to decide whether or not they want to make a run.

Paraxade

2010-10-06 12:43:43 am

I could argue with that but this is fucking stupid. There's no need to resurrect this argument again. Can we discuss the actual game for once?

13013

(user is banned)

2010-10-06 08:00:38 am

Yes Mario Riding A Pole

Quote from Mystery:

I believe 13013 is just trying to convey that laziness and difficult isn't an excuse for not doing a run.
Do a 100% run and THEN you have the right to be lazy.
That doesn't necessarily imply a BAD run, though.

Again, not my words.
Though I do not necessarily agree. We DO get tired of games, and I believe it's up to the runners to decide whether or not they want to make a run.

Thats exactly what i meant thanks for clearing it up for people.

KingOfHeart

2010-10-07 04:25:27 pm

So no more of those types of videos?

100% is way too boring. If someone has that much skill, they should try to work on the fastest type of run first.
I want to see a 1 segment run again. The last was one was good but there has been many more shortcuts since then.

Except for TP Fox no one has the skills/patience to make one. I say skills because if someone is truly talented they can do it in less tries then others.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2010-10-07 09:51:37 pm

2010-10-07 09:50:23 pm

Quote from KingOfHeart:

So no more of those types of videos?

100% is way too boring. If someone has that much skill, they should try to work on the fastest type of run first.
I want to see a 1 segment run again. The last was one was good but there has been many more shortcuts since then.

Except for TP Fox no one has the skills/patience to make one. I say skills because if someone is truly talented they can do it in less tries then others.

I try not to post videos on here anymore if they are not speed trick related. Earliest BiTE doesn't help in a speedrun. In fact, to hopefully clear things up with BiTE for good, the only use it has is during a 100% run after getting iron boots. There have been no other uses for BiTE found yet. So if I post some random BiTE video on youtube again, it probably has no point of being mentioned here because it most likely won't have any use in a speedrun. If I miraculously find another use for BiTE, I'll make mention of it.

And there's only been one shortcut found since Jiano's SS run...getting Zora armor with ems.

[quote="KingOfHeart"]

So no more of those types of videos?

100% is way too boring. If someone has that much skill, they should try to work on the fastest type of run first.
I want to see a 1 segment run again. The last was one was good but there has been many more shortcuts since then.

Except for TP Fox no one has the skills/patience to make one. I say skills because if someone is truly talented they can do it in less tries then others.[/quote]

I try not to post videos on here anymore if they are not speed trick related. Earliest BiTE doesn't help in a speedrun. In fact, to hopefully clear things up with BiTE for good, the only use it has is during a 100% run after getting iron boots.  There have been no other uses for BiTE found yet. So if I post some random BiTE video on youtube again, it probably has no point of being mentioned here because it most likely won't have any use in a speedrun. If I miraculously find another use for BiTE, I'll make mention of it.

And there's only been one shortcut found since Jiano's SS run...getting Zora armor with ems.

GUIGUI

2010-10-09 01:21:16 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

also, don't the letters pile up at some point where you can't avoid the postman and receive all of them at once?

Quote from Jish:

I was mainly referring to the letters you get from Ooccoo and her son, which you only get if you use them in the dungeons. They're missable.

I thought it was already established the 100% speedrun doesn't require the letters or the fish journal to be completed. Does that changed?

Paraxade

2010-10-09 02:14:05 pm

as far as i know the fish journal is still required for 100% and the letters aren't... I'm not totally sure it hasn't been changed from that though. I'm glad if it has, requiring the fish journal is stupid.

GUIGUI

2010-10-09 02:32:17 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I don't remember on which page of this thread it is on, but first the fish journal was required, but then the matter of the post man arised and it was then decided that neither was required because it bring nothing.

the "it bring nothing" reason is really weak, I think, especially as the official definition of a Zelda 100% speedrun is "having all the heart, maximum magic and all items in the inventory".

The real reason both were rejected was because nobody felt like extending the run to get all the letters and the fish journal had the same level of importance than the postman letters.

SD2

2010-10-09 09:51:45 pm

dem tokay

It was originally rejected because there is no reward for completing it and it would take too long and bore the viewers.

The 100% definition was seriously reworked about a year ago: postman letters, Cave of Ordeals, poe scents, fish journal, all were cut.

KingOfHeart

2010-10-11 06:30:38 pm

A 100% run will still take too long.
If it takes 4 hours about for a speed run, imagine how long a 100% run will take.
I'd say at least 20 hours.

Paraxade

2010-10-11 07:08:22 pm

20 hours? Are you kidding? I'm pretty sure 100% is sub 8, max. Jiano had either 9 hours or 12 hours or something around there, and that was a shitty test run to figure out the route.

13013

(user is banned)

2010-10-11 09:54:40 pm

Yes Mario Riding A Pole

Well hell see people are willing to do it then why not someone do it already. Since you did mention that it seems like you care.

Miles

2010-10-11 09:57:42 pm

Go away.