Twilight Princess (GCN)

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-20 05:23:46 pm

2009-02-20 03:55:26 pm

Quote from KingOfHeart:

As long as rupees work the same way, it sounds very possible. I got to try this myself when I get the chance.

http://files.filefront.com/HeartDiveSloMowmv/;13333070;/fileinfo.html

wtf? My feet were firmly planted on the ledge after I had gotten the heart piece. It looks a bit like one of Link's feet is off the edge, but it isn't. Link's feet can be halfway off the ledge after getting the heart piece and still not dive. Link's feet were not even that close to the ledge in this video. So now I'm really confused why this actually worked. I should have figured this out awhile back though. It explains why you can do the clipping glitch in Arbiter's Grounds. It is because when Link actually did the dive, he was going through the spinner track a bit as he was falling. his feet never actually came off the ledge. That is why you can walk through the spinner track barrier afterwards.

I'll keep working on the rupee dive. It would save around 2 minutes to skip fishing rod on GC with ems.

edit: Might be known, but if you do a heart piece dive in Kakariko gorge with map glitch on you can walk around while OoB. The game still thinks you are on solid ground.

[quote="KingOfHeart"]
As long as rupees work the same way, it sounds very possible. I got to try this myself when I get the chance.
[/quote]

http://files.filefront.com/HeartDiveSloMowmv/;13333070;/fileinfo.html

wtf? My feet were firmly planted on the ledge after I had gotten the heart piece. It looks a bit like one of Link's feet is off the edge, but it isn't. Link's feet can be halfway off the ledge after getting the heart piece and still not dive. Link's feet were not even that close to the ledge in this video. So now I'm really confused why this actually worked. I should have figured this out awhile back though. It explains why you can do the clipping glitch in Arbiter's Grounds. It is because when Link actually did the dive, he was going through the spinner track a bit as he was falling. his feet never actually came off the ledge. That is why you can walk through the spinner track barrier afterwards.

I'll keep working on the rupee dive. It would save around 2 minutes to skip fishing rod on GC with ems.

edit: Might be known, but if you do a heart piece dive in Kakariko gorge with map glitch on you can walk around while OoB. The game still thinks you are on solid ground.

Paraxade

2009-02-20 06:10:30 pm

Can't you just break all the jars then carry the rupee over with the gale boomerang? I know it's possible to move it that way without collecting it, but I don't know how easy it is...

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-21 01:54:36 am

2009-02-20 06:47:12 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

Can't you just break all the jars then carry the rupee over with the gale boomerang? I know it's possible to move it that way without collecting it, but I don't know how easy it is...

The rupee will come to you before you get to the dive spot. I'm testing the rupee dive in Kakariko gorge. I'm using a blue rupee from a destoyed rock. Those rupees don't disappear, so it's easier to test it out there. I still can't get the rupee dive to work though.

edit: Finally got a yellow rupee dive in Kakariko gorge on GC. I'll try to do it again and make a video. Then after that I'll see if I have the patience to try a blue rupee dive in Lake Hylia.

edit 2: Rupee dive video

edit 3: After testing this some more, I'm trying to use almost the same pattern to get the dive as when it happened in Kakariko gorge. I'm using 3 boomerang targets to try and get this to work...one for the jar, one for the wall to break the jar, and another below the 2nd target to grab the blue rupee when it falls in the water. No dive yet though.

[quote="Paraxade"]
Can't you just break all the jars then carry the rupee over with the gale boomerang? I know it's possible to move it that way without collecting it, but I don't know how easy it is...
[/quote]

The rupee will come to you before you get to the dive spot. I'm testing the rupee dive in Kakariko gorge. I'm using a blue rupee from a destoyed rock. Those rupees don't disappear, so it's easier to test it out there. I still can't get the rupee dive to work though.

edit: Finally got a yellow rupee dive in Kakariko gorge on GC. I'll try to do it again and make a video. Then after that I'll see if I have the patience to try a blue rupee dive in Lake Hylia.

edit 2: Rupee dive video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJw3hgZIoKo&feature=channel_page

edit 3: After testing this some more, I'm trying to use almost the same pattern to get the dive as when it happened in Kakariko gorge. I'm using 3 boomerang targets to try and get this to work...one for the jar, one for the wall to break the jar, and another below the 2nd target to grab the blue rupee when it falls in the water. No dive yet though.

KingOfHeart

2009-02-21 04:30:41 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

If I had to take a guess your going to need to be sideways. Your foot will have to be way on the edge. Your also going to need your player to turn around enough which should trigger the dive.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-23 09:12:44 pm

2009-02-21 06:16:53 pm

Quote from KingOfHeart:

If I had to take a guess your going to need to be sideways. Your foot will have to be way on the edge. Your also going to need your player to turn around enough which should trigger the dive.

I've tried that a lot in Kakariko gorge. It works when it wants to (which is very rarely). There really seems to be no pattern to it (even though there probably is one that I can't figure out). I tried the dive in Lake Hylia for 2 hours. And it is worse than I originally thought. The blue rupee doesn't exist at least 50% of the time. And when it does, it is randomized. It is very annoying and tedious. Also makes it worse that I have no clue what angle to use to get the dive to work. If I can find a pattern (a general pattern that will get the dive to work at least 25% of the time), then I'll try the dive in Lake Hylia again. If I never find a pattern and still only get the rupee dive to work in Kakariko gorge rarely, then I think I'm gonna have to give up.

edit: Just got OoB with rupee dive in ZD. Also did it a slightly different way...I timed a sword slash just before getting the rupee. This is only slightly easier for getting the dive to work. It is still really hard to time right. Now if I could only get the dive to work in lake hylia...

[quote="KingOfHeart"]
If I had to take a guess your going to need to be sideways. Your foot will have to be way on the edge. Your also going to need your player to turn around enough which should trigger the dive.
[/quote]

I've tried that a lot in Kakariko gorge. It works when it wants to (which is very rarely). There really seems to be no pattern to it (even though there probably is one that I can't figure out). I tried the dive in Lake Hylia for 2 hours. And it is worse than I originally thought. The blue rupee doesn't exist at least 50% of the time. And when it does, it is randomized. It is very annoying and tedious. Also makes it worse that I have no clue what angle to use to get the dive to work. If I can find a pattern (a general pattern that will get the dive to work at least 25% of the time), then I'll try the dive in Lake Hylia again. If I never find a pattern and still only get the rupee dive to work in Kakariko gorge rarely, then I think I'm gonna have to give up.

edit: Just got OoB with rupee dive in ZD. Also did it a slightly different way...I timed a sword slash just before getting the rupee. This is only slightly easier for getting the dive to work. It is still really hard to time right. Now if I could only get the dive to work in lake hylia...

Tp_Fox

2009-02-24 06:30:40 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Segment 12

SD2

2009-02-25 01:30:05 pm

dem tokay

Alright, A little status update as nothing has been posted by me in a while.

I haven't been able to use my DVD recorder for the last couple of weeks, and during that time I've also decided to go back and redo segment 19. When I get the use, expect the next couple of segments to come quite close to each other, but it depends on how fast I get segment 19.

Also just wanted to say to TP_Fox: The run is incredible thus far, keep it up.

My goal for the run is to finish before Fox and get a time that beats the world record (Wii WR) by at least an hour, but odds are I'll completely smash that, we'll see.

Tp_Fox

2009-02-25 07:43:33 pm

Q(O_o)Q

If you want to finish before me SD2, you better get to it, since I'm planning to be on segment 19 by next week. Tongue

Paraxade

2009-02-25 08:34:18 pm

Quote from Tp_Fox:

If you want to finish before me SD2, you better get to it, since I'm planning to be on segment 19 by next week. Tongue

You were scheduled to be finished with the whole run by last Friday, so we'll see how well you meet that deadline. Sad

Aeolocphry

2009-02-25 09:13:16 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from Tp_Fox:

If you want to finish before me SD2, you better get to it, since I'm planning to be on segment 19 by next week. Tongue

You were scheduled to be finished with the whole run by last Friday, so we'll see how well you meet that deadline. Sad

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Paraxade

2009-02-25 09:15:40 pm

Quote from DSGamer3002:

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from Tp_Fox:

If you want to finish before me SD2, you better get to it, since I'm planning to be on segment 19 by next week. Tongue

You were scheduled to be finished with the whole run by last Friday, so we'll see how well you meet that deadline. Sad

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Lack of a sense of humor at its finest.

Aeolocphry

2009-02-25 09:23:37 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from DSGamer3002:

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from Tp_Fox:

If you want to finish before me SD2, you better get to it, since I'm planning to be on segment 19 by next week. Tongue

You were scheduled to be finished with the whole run by last Friday, so we'll see how well you meet that deadline. Sad

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Lack of a sense of humor at its finest.

Real hypocrisy at its finest. Grin

UchihaSasuke

2009-02-26 12:28:06 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

Quote from DSGamer3002:

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from DSGamer3002:

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from Tp_Fox:

If you want to finish before me SD2, you better get to it, since I'm planning to be on segment 19 by next week. Tongue

You were scheduled to be finished with the whole run by last Friday, so we'll see how well you meet that deadline. Sad

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Lack of a sense of humor at its finest.

Real hypocrisy at its finest. Grin

hm.. quote tunnel at its finest?

btw, would both runs get listed in SDA or does only 1 get the spot?

Paraxade

2009-02-26 12:50:39 am

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

Quote from DSGamer3002:

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from DSGamer3002:

Quote from Paraxade:

Quote from Tp_Fox:

If you want to finish before me SD2, you better get to it, since I'm planning to be on segment 19 by next week. Tongue

You were scheduled to be finished with the whole run by last Friday, so we'll see how well you meet that deadline. Sad

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Lack of a sense of humor at its finest.

Real hypocrisy at its finest. Grin

hm.. quote tunnel at its finest?

btw, would both runs get listed in SDA or does only 1 get the spot?

Wii/GCN are separate categories, so they'd both go up.

btw dsg, congrats on not asking me for permission to post those. Cheesy

Norrec

2009-02-26 12:54:03 am

Both runs will get listed, SD2's run is on Wii version, Tp_Fox's on GC.
I have a question to Tp_Fox's segment 12. While standing on the bridges, did he call Midna and cancel her at once again in order to trigger off the bridges' animations?

logitechSDAZ

2009-02-26 02:20:38 pm

skip fishing rod on GC

KingOfHeart

2009-02-26 04:17:59 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Nice to see you finally got the rupee trick working.

At the bottom of your video description you have this quote

Quote:

When skipping the fishing rod, bottle, slingshot, do this...

Unless if you just like skipping things, skipping the slingshot takes a while to do since the only way to kill them is with the bird.

Has anyone tried timing the OOB trick for the flying bird to see if it's faster or not?

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-26 09:32:18 pm

2009-02-26 04:45:10 pm

Quote from KingOfHeart:

Unless if you just like skipping things, skipping the slingshot takes a while to do since the only way to kill them is with the bird.

It saves 2:06 to skip Ordon days 1 and 2. If the bokoblins can be lured to Trill faster, then it saves more time. However, realistically, skipping the fishing rod might not save any time the more I think about it. Here's some problems...

1. LBT 3rd room getting ooccoo. That will take time. No double LJA on the staircase to get to the next room.
2. How can we get water bombs quickly? You get ooccoo...then what? Do the same route as Wii somewhat (get key, open locked door, open water bomb chest)? Or do you save after getting ooccoo, warp out, steal bomb bag, get water bomb chest in 1st room, warp out, get Goron bomb bag, warp back, knock down stalactite in 2nd room, get treasure chest, then finally proceed to Deku Toad? Either way wastes a ton of time.
3. The 1st time you warp out of LBT with ooccoo...it takes nearly 20 seconds to run back as a wolf, speak to Fyer to trigger Kargaroc.
4. Killing the small spiders in 1st room of FT with no slingshot will take a few more seconds.

Even though you skip warping to Kakariko, riding to the grotto, catching bombfish...I'm now having doubts that skipping the rod will even save one second. It might even waste time.

edit: I'll have to time everything to make sure skipping the rod saves no time.

[quote="KingOfHeart"]
Unless if you just like skipping things, skipping the slingshot takes a while to do since the only way to kill them is with the bird.
[/quote]

It saves 2:06 to skip Ordon days 1 and 2. If the bokoblins can be lured to Trill faster, then it saves more time. However, realistically, skipping the fishing rod might not save any time the more I think about it. Here's some problems...

1. LBT 3rd room getting ooccoo. That will take time. No double LJA on the staircase to get to the next room. 
2. How can we get water bombs quickly? You get ooccoo...then what? Do the same route as Wii somewhat (get key, open locked door, open water bomb chest)? Or do you save after getting ooccoo, warp out, steal bomb bag, get water bomb chest in 1st room, warp out, get Goron bomb bag, warp back, knock down stalactite in 2nd room, get treasure chest, then finally proceed to Deku Toad? Either way wastes a ton of time. 
3. The 1st time you warp out of LBT with ooccoo...it takes nearly 20 seconds to run back as a wolf, speak to Fyer to trigger Kargaroc.
4. Killing the small spiders in 1st room of FT with no slingshot will take a few more seconds.

Even though you skip warping to Kakariko, riding to the grotto, catching bombfish...I'm now having doubts that skipping the rod will even save one second. It might even waste time.

edit: I'll have to time everything to make sure skipping the rod saves no time.

SD2

2009-02-26 04:48:58 pm

dem tokay

New segment 19. 17 second improvement, the had to have been a timing error in my last segment IMO.
Right here.

Tp_Fox

Edit history:

Tp_Fox: 2009-02-26 07:14:15 pm

2009-02-26 07:08:27 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Quote from SD2:

New segment 19. 17 second improvement, the had to have been a timing error in my last segment IMO.
Right here.

Could you upload to youtube or make it stream? I can't watch mp4's.

Btw last night while doing some practice runs for Segment 13, I found out that if you're EXTREMELY lucky you can climb up in the middle of both spiders without getting hit. This could be used in a future TAS.

SD2

2009-02-26 08:45:13 pm

dem tokay

Quote from Tp_Fox:

Could you upload to youtube or make it stream? I can't watch mp4's.

Here you go.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-27 02:50:16 pm

2009-02-27 02:12:25 am

Looks like I was way off in my prediction of no time saved skipping fishing rod. Cheesy

After timing every little thing I can think of, skipping the fishing rod should save around 3:05. This is also assuming that the bokoblins can't be lured to Trill's shop any faster than Paraxade's video. If they can be killed faster, then this will save more time than 3:05.

Things skipped when skipping fishing rod
2:06 - skip ordon days 1 and 2
1:26 - warp to kakariko, turn into human, call epona, ride to grotto
0:10 - get off epona, turn into wolf, dig into grotto
0:30 - turn into human, kill skullfish, catch bombfish (I had this estimate at 0:27 when trying to find out time saved on Wii. I think 0:27 is too generous. Having it at 0:30 assumes you kill the skullfish in 10 seconds)
0:04 - get to ooccoo in snowpeak after Yeto cutscene
0:16 - extra ooccoo warp (You have to warp 5 times. Skipping the rod, you warp 4 times.)
0:13 - roll to ice block, break it with B&C, open bomb chest in snowpeak
0:15 - warp to lake hylia after getting Goron bomb bag
total = 5:00

Things you do when skipping the fishing rod
0:20 - turn into wolf, run to Fyer, talk to him with wolf senses on after warping out of LBT with ooccoo
0:23 - pull lever and move stairs after double LJA in LBT, go to ooccoo
0:14 - walk from 4th room entrance (staircase room) to 2nd room
0:20 - knock down stalactite in 2nd room, open bomb chest
0:19 - go to staircase room
0:04 - pull lever to move stairs
0:05 - open key chest in room before Deku Toad
0:10 - kill spiders in 1st room in Forest Temple (one spider killed for each segment)
total = 1:55

5:00 - 1:55 = 3:05 saved

Here's what to do after rupee dive OoB to LBT. Double LJA in the staircase room, pull lever to move stairs, get ooccoo, warp out. Clear twilight, go to upper Zora's river. Open upper Zora warp portal, see Iza, dispose of all but one bomb in Iza's canoe area (just throw bombs into the water), steal bomb bag, go back to the 2nd room, use boomerang + final bomb to knock down stalactite, get water bomb chest, pull lever in staircase room, do double LJA again, blow up rock in room before Deku Toad, get key, warp out, get Goron bomb bag. Get B&C. Warp back (this puts you by the locked door), kill Deku Toad with B&C. Empty Goron bomb bag, get bomb chest in 1st room, kill Morpheel.

Even though it takes around 30 seconds to carry a jar to the rupee dive spot in lake hylia, it doesn't take any longer to get the rupee dive OoB and swim to LBT than using 2 water bombs to get into LBT with full lake hylia. With full lake hylia, you have to run a bit, turn into a human, do 9 swim dashes before you can sink down, use 2 water bombs, blow up rock cutscene, then enter LBT.

For TpFox's speedrun, doing rupee dive OoB to LBT should still save around 0:59 (3:05 - 2:06 for not skipping fishing rod, bottle, slingshot).

Looks like I was way off in my prediction of no time saved skipping fishing rod. :D
After timing every little thing I can think of, skipping the fishing rod should save around 3:05. This is also assuming that the bokoblins can't be lured to Trill's shop any faster than Paraxade's video. If they can be killed faster, then this will save more time than 3:05.

[b]Things skipped when skipping fishing rod[/b]
2:06 - skip ordon days 1 and 2
1:26 - warp to kakariko, turn into human, call epona, ride to grotto
0:10 - get off epona, turn into wolf, dig into grotto
0:30 - turn into human, kill skullfish, catch bombfish (I had this estimate at 0:27 when trying to find out time saved on Wii. I think 0:27 is too generous. Having it at 0:30 assumes you kill the skullfish in 10 seconds)
0:04 - get to ooccoo in snowpeak after Yeto cutscene
0:16 - extra ooccoo warp (You have to warp 5 times. Skipping the rod, you warp 4 times.)
0:13 - roll to ice block, break it with B&C, open bomb chest in snowpeak 
0:15 - warp to lake hylia after getting Goron bomb bag
total = 5:00

[b]Things you do when skipping the fishing rod[/b]
0:20 - turn into wolf, run to Fyer, talk to him with wolf senses on after warping out of LBT with ooccoo
0:23 - pull lever and move stairs after double LJA in LBT, go to ooccoo
0:14 - walk from 4th room entrance (staircase room) to 2nd room 
0:20 - knock down stalactite in 2nd room, open bomb chest 
0:19 - go to staircase room
0:04 - pull lever to move stairs
0:05 - open key chest in room before Deku Toad
0:10 - kill spiders in 1st room in Forest Temple (one spider killed for each segment) 
total = 1:55

5:00 - 1:55 = 3:05 saved

Here's what to do after rupee dive OoB to LBT. Double LJA in the staircase room, pull lever to move stairs, get ooccoo, warp out. Clear twilight, go to upper Zora's river. Open upper Zora warp portal, see Iza, dispose of all but one bomb in Iza's canoe area (just throw bombs into the water), steal bomb bag, go back to the 2nd room, use boomerang + final bomb to knock down stalactite, get water bomb chest, pull lever in staircase room, do double LJA again, blow up rock in room before Deku Toad, get key, warp out, get Goron bomb bag. Get B&C. Warp back (this puts you by the locked door), kill Deku Toad with B&C. Empty Goron bomb bag, get bomb chest in 1st room, kill Morpheel.

Even though it takes around 30 seconds to carry a jar to the rupee dive spot in lake hylia, it doesn't take any longer to get the rupee dive OoB and swim to LBT than using 2 water bombs to get into LBT with full lake hylia. With full lake hylia, you have to run a bit, turn into a human, do 9 swim dashes before you can sink down, use 2 water bombs, blow up rock cutscene, then enter LBT.

For TpFox's speedrun, doing rupee dive OoB to LBT should still save around 0:59 (3:05 - 2:06 for not skipping fishing rod, bottle, slingshot).

Tp_Fox

Edit history:

Tp_Fox: 2009-02-27 07:28:21 am

2009-02-27 07:22:36 am

Q(O_o)Q

If I decided to redo my run, I would not be looking forward to Segment 2. >_> Getting the bokoblins to the trill quickly and getting good goat herding. >_>

Need suggestions whether if I should redo or not.

Also you forgot to put in the time spent killing the spiders for the two segments in FT.

logitechSDAZ

2009-02-27 02:45:29 pm

Quote from Tp_Fox:

Also you forgot to put in the time spent killing the spiders for the two segments in FT.

I edited my last post.

SD2

2009-02-27 08:02:09 pm

dem tokay

Logitech: What you said about turning into a human while waiting for the rock to fall...

It's impossible to do, Midna will not let you transform.