Twilight Princess (GCN)

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-13 04:46:07 pm

2009-02-12 03:58:32 pm

I noticed you quoted me before I added an edit to my last post. Turns out you can do segment 20 around 22 seconds faster. When I rewatched your video, you did a 2 cycle Kargaroc fight. Turning into a human and making the bokoblin hit the water is about 6 seconds faster than a single-cycle Kargaroc fight. This includes turning into a wolf after getting to upper Zora's river. Also, I'm still trying to figure out a way to empty the bomb bag (1st time emptying) faster in LBT. It seems like by the time you get to the room with the water bomb chest, you'll still have a lot of bombs you have to get rid of.

edit: I'm going to see if I can find a faster way to use the helmasaur to get on the ledge in the 2nd room of LBT. I haven't been able to do it any faster than in this video yet.

edit 2: Well, now I'm not sure if rocket glitch after Goron bomb bag will be faster. Since the rock before Deku Toad is already blown up at that point, it won't be a problem if you savewarp (after getting Goron bomb bag) and lose the stolen bomb bag. Probably less stress too since the segment seems like it will be pretty long. Wiki isn't working for me either right now...I'll update it later.

I noticed you quoted me before I added an edit to my last post. Turns out you can do segment 20 around 22 seconds faster. When I rewatched your video, you did a 2 cycle Kargaroc fight. Turning into a human and making the bokoblin hit the water is about 6 seconds faster than a single-cycle Kargaroc fight. This includes turning into a wolf after getting to upper Zora's river.  Also, I'm still trying to figure out a way to empty the bomb bag (1st time emptying) faster in LBT. It seems like by the time you get to the room with the water bomb chest, you'll still have a lot of bombs you have to get rid of.

edit: I'm going to see if I can find a faster way to use the helmasaur to get on the ledge in the 2nd room of LBT. I haven't been able to do it any faster than in this video yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQX8s5DfXVk&feature=channel_page

edit 2: Well, now I'm not sure if rocket glitch after Goron bomb bag will be faster. Since the rock before Deku Toad is already blown up at that point, it won't be a problem if you savewarp (after getting Goron bomb bag) and lose the stolen bomb bag. Probably less stress too since the segment seems like it will be pretty long. Wiki isn't working for me either right now...I'll update it later.

SD2

2009-02-12 07:29:43 pm

dem tokay

I've had major problems with the human defeat of the Kargaroc. Not defeating, but actually flying through the river. I be starting, then I'll suddenly lose control going up the river, and my camera goes back to human link standing near the entrance to the river. I'll make a video later, because I've never seen anyone else with this problem. If it turns out I can't fix this, then oh well.

How do you single cycle Kargaroc anyway? I looked for a vid and never found it.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-12 09:17:08 pm

2009-02-12 09:02:34 pm

Quote from SD2:

I've had major problems with the human defeat of the Kargaroc. Not defeating, but actually flying through the river. I be starting, then I'll suddenly lose control going up the river, and my camera goes back to human link standing near the entrance to the river. I'll make a video later, because I've never seen anyone else with this problem. If it turns out I can't fix this, then oh well.

How do you single cycle Kargaroc anyway? I looked for a vid and never found it.

What you do is attack Kargaroc like normal. Then after you get thrown off, immediately attack again. It doesn't work a lot of the time and requires luck. You just have to hope Kargaroc is low enough so that you can quickly get the 2nd attack in before he circles. I'm not sure if there is a video of it. It was mentioned on SDA awhile back. If you don't attack Kargaroc a 2nd time quickly, it takes 12-14 seconds for Kargaroc to circle around before you can attack him again.

I haven't had a problem going through the tunnel as a human...but I also did it on GC. Maybe it is much harder on Wii for some reason. If you can't get through the tunnel as a human, then a faster Kargaroc fight as a wolf + warping lava rock as a human will still be 16-18 seconds faster than your previous segment 20.

[quote="SD2"]
I've had major problems with the human defeat of the Kargaroc.  Not defeating, but actually flying through the river.  I be starting, then I'll suddenly lose control going up the river, and my camera goes back to human link standing near the entrance to the river.  I'll make a video later, because I've never seen anyone else with this problem.  If it turns out I can't fix this, then oh well.

How do you single cycle Kargaroc anyway?  I looked for a vid and never found it.
[/quote]

What you do is attack Kargaroc like normal. Then after you get thrown off, immediately attack again. It doesn't work a lot of the time and requires luck. You just have to hope Kargaroc is low enough so that you can quickly get the 2nd attack in before he circles. I'm not sure if there is a video of it. It was mentioned on SDA awhile back. If you don't attack Kargaroc a 2nd time quickly, it takes 12-14 seconds for Kargaroc to circle around before you can attack him again.

I haven't had a problem going through the tunnel as a human...but I also did it on GC. Maybe it is much harder on Wii for some reason.  If you can't get through the tunnel as a human, then a faster Kargaroc fight as a wolf + warping lava rock as a human will still be 16-18 seconds faster than your previous segment 20.

Paraxade

2009-02-13 12:06:40 am

IIRC the thing with the tunnel is that if you're a human, then the control stick controls both the Kargaroc and Link himself. So don't touch the stick and you'll be fine.

Might be wrong though, I'm going off memory. >_>

mzxrules away yay!

2009-02-13 08:51:22 am

Quote from Paraxade:

IIRC the thing with the tunnel is that if you're a human, then the control stick controls both the Kargaroc and Link himself. So don't touch the stick and you'll be fine.

Might be wrong though, I'm going off memory. >_>

That's right. If I remember correctly, you can even use items as long as you don't jump off the ledge... but that usually causes the camera to focus in on Link. It's easier if you hold up to make Link fall off the ledge right at the start (at least on the Gamecube version.)

KingOfHeart

2009-02-14 10:36:34 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Even with a shaky camera I was able to get through. I just needed you give myself enough space to know what's coming up ahead so I could have enough time for some camera control.
If there's an easier way that be nice.

logitechSDAZ

2009-02-14 11:24:51 am

Turns you can get to Morpheel without drowning even if you put on iron boots several seconds later. What you do is put on iron boots for a couple of seconds and take them off. As you are rising back up to the surface, the air gauge will come on. When you get to the surface put iron boots back on quickly after the air gauge disappears. You'll get a second of extra air and make it to Morpheel without drowning. This wastes time and has no real point. The only possible use this would have is if a single segment speedrunner doesn't put on iron boots quickly enough the 1st time to start sinking when entering Morpheel's room.

Also, I'm having the same problem as SD2 on Wii. I can't get through that tunnel. I've been as careful as possible. It seems fine for a few seconds, then suddenly everything zooms out, you see Kargaroc in the distance, and Link is standing at the entrance to the tunnel. Doesn't matter what angle I've used when trying to get through the tunnel....whether I'm flying on the left, right, or middle. Also happens if I don't touch the wiimote or press 'A' to fly faster. Never had this problem on GC.

Turns you can get to Morpheel without drowning even if you put on iron boots several seconds later.  What you do is put on iron boots for a couple of seconds and take them off. As you are rising back up to the surface, the air gauge will come on. When you get to the surface put iron boots back on quickly after the air gauge disappears. You'll get a second of extra air and make it to Morpheel without drowning. This wastes time and has no real point. The only possible use this would have is if a single segment speedrunner doesn't put on iron boots quickly enough the 1st time to start sinking when entering Morpheel's room.

Also, I'm having the same problem as SD2 on Wii. I can't get through that tunnel. I've been as careful as possible. It seems fine for a few seconds, then suddenly everything zooms out, you see Kargaroc in the distance, and Link is standing at the entrance to the tunnel. Doesn't matter what angle I've used when trying to get through the tunnel....whether I'm flying on the left, right, or middle. Also happens if I don't touch the wiimote or press 'A' to fly faster. Never had this problem on GC.

mzxrules

2009-02-14 01:39:55 pm

zeldaspeedruns.com

Quote from logitechSDAZ:

Turns you can get to Morpheel without drowning even if you put on iron boots several seconds later. What you do is put on iron boots for a couple of seconds and take them off. As you are rising back up to the surface, the air gauge will come on. When you get to the surface put iron boots back on quickly after the air gauge disappears. You'll get a second of extra air and make it to Morpheel without drowning. This wastes time and has no real point. The only possible use this would have is if a single segment speedrunner doesn't put on iron boots quickly enough the 1st time to start sinking when entering Morpheel's room.

Also, I'm having the same problem as SD2 on Wii. I can't get through that tunnel. I've been as careful as possible. It seems fine for a few seconds, then suddenly everything zooms out, you see Kargaroc in the distance, and Link is standing at the entrance to the tunnel. Doesn't matter what angle I've used when trying to get through the tunnel....whether I'm flying on the left, right, or middle. Also happens if I don't touch the wiimote or press 'A' to fly faster. Never had this problem on GC.

Do you have any control over Link, and if not, wouldn't clipping out of bounds like this help?

[quote="logitechSDAZ"]
Turns you can get to Morpheel without drowning even if you put on iron boots several seconds later.  What you do is put on iron boots for a couple of seconds and take them off. As you are rising back up to the surface, the air gauge will come on. When you get to the surface put iron boots back on quickly after the air gauge disappears. You'll get a second of extra air and make it to Morpheel without drowning. This wastes time and has no real point. The only possible use this would have is if a single segment speedrunner doesn't put on iron boots quickly enough the 1st time to start sinking when entering Morpheel's room.

Also, I'm having the same problem as SD2 on Wii. I can't get through that tunnel. I've been as careful as possible. It seems fine for a few seconds, then suddenly everything zooms out, you see Kargaroc in the distance, and Link is standing at the entrance to the tunnel. Doesn't matter what angle I've used when trying to get through the tunnel....whether I'm flying on the left, right, or middle. Also happens if I don't touch the wiimote or press 'A' to fly faster. Never had this problem on GC.

[/quote]
Do you have any control over Link, and if not, wouldn't [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9a4Cdo9QxM]clipping out of bounds[/url] like this help?

KingOfHeart

2009-02-14 04:43:35 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Someone needs to study the time difference, to see how much time is saved or lost when going out of bounds.
I keep forgetting about this glitch myself in this discussion.

edit: If it is faster, the wiki should have this added in.

logitechSDAZ

2009-02-14 06:19:16 pm

On GC, Link and Kargaroc are controlled with the analog stick. if you push up on the analog stick for too long, you death warp. It is assumed that even though you can't see Link when flying Kargaroc, he is standing at the entrance to the tunnel. So that death warp is because you made Link jump off. Whereas, when going left and right using the control stick, you keep Link from falling off while still controlling Kargaroc.

On Wii, the wiimote only controls Kargaroc but not Link. So, do you also have to use the control stick to get through the tunnel? If Link is standing at the entrance and never moves, then that could be why Kargaroc suddenly zooms out and you lose control. Let's say the tunnel winds left, but Link is standing at the entrance on the right side. The camera can't keep up and you lose control quickly. So, I'm wondering now if you have to use both the wiimote and the control stick to get through the tunnel. Move left using wiimote, move left a bit with the control stick and vice versa.

KingOfHeart, how did you get through? You have the Wii version right?

On GC, Link and Kargaroc are controlled with the analog stick. if you push up on the analog stick for too long, you death warp. It is assumed that even though you can't see Link when flying Kargaroc, he is standing at the entrance to the tunnel. So that death warp is because you made Link jump off. Whereas, when going left and right using the control stick, you keep Link from falling off while still controlling Kargaroc.

On Wii, the wiimote only controls Kargaroc but not Link. So, do you also have to use the control stick to get through the tunnel? If Link is standing at the entrance and never moves, then that could be why Kargaroc suddenly zooms out and you lose control. Let's say the tunnel winds left, but Link is standing at the entrance on the right side. The camera can't keep up and you lose control quickly. So, I'm wondering now if you have to use both the wiimote and the control stick to get through the tunnel. Move left using wiimote, move left a bit with the control stick and vice versa.

KingOfHeart, how did you get through? You have the Wii version right?

Tp_Fox

Edit history:

Tp_Fox: 2009-02-15 10:50:35 am

2009-02-15 01:22:35 am

Q(O_o)Q

Edit: Deleted Segment 6 because I was unsatisfied with getting 4'56 after combining both Segs 6 and 7. I'll just split them apart.

KingOfHeart

2009-02-15 12:34:15 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

You mean by not crashing? I have GC version. I think I had the bird go up and whenever I had a chance to see what was coming up, I gave myself as much space from the wall as possible?

Or do you mean get out of bounds?
It's just a matter of hitting the right spot, at the right angle.

Thomaz

2009-02-15 05:39:20 pm

Catchin' them all

Quote from Tp_Fox:

Edit: Deleted Segment 6 because I was unsatisfied with getting 4'56 after combining both Segs 6 and 7. I'll just split them apart.

I was gonna say. I didn't understand why the segment was so short. Tongue

Tp_Fox

2009-02-15 05:57:13 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Segment 6

Time: 1'35

Tp_Fox

2009-02-15 09:59:08 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Segment 7

EMS up next. Cheesy

Tp_Fox

2009-02-16 09:53:27 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Did the both EMS segments today, both turned out great. (Segments 8, 9) Here are my times so far, these times are accurate, I used virtualdub to time them.

Segment 1 2'10

Segment 2 3'35

Segment 3 3'13

Segment 4 3'46

Segment 5 4'00

Segment 6 1'35

Segment 7 4'18

Segment 8 1'48

Segment 9 6'30

Total time: 29:55

Sub 30 mins at the Master Sword! Cheesy

Norrec

2009-02-17 01:09:15 pm

Good job!

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-02-18 05:09:42 pm

2009-02-18 04:09:37 pm

I have a theory on how to skip fishing rod on an ems file on GC. You can dive on GC using a heart piece in Kakariko Gorge. Also works with the heart container in Arbiter's Grounds. Both are difficult to do on GC (much easier on Wii). What relevance does this have? Well, this should work when you get a blue rupee the 1st time after loading a save file since the animation is basically the same.

You can't use the boomerang to bring a blue rupee to the wooden planks (with full Lake Hylia, Lanayru in twilight). The rupee will disappear when you are swimming. The yellow rupees in Lake Hylia only appear when Lanayru twilight is cleared. But you won't have enough oxygen to make it to LBT when doing a yellow rupee dive OoB. Also, after breaking the rock entrance to LBT with B&C, I still can't find a way in with empty Lake Hylia.

This leaves only one other option I can think of...and it is hell. The first time you enter Lake Hylia, dive OoB using a blue rupee from a small jar. Now for the fun part...there are 14 small jars by Fyer's cannon. Sometimes the blue rupee doesn't even exist, and when it does, it is completely random what jar will have it. Carry a jar from Fyer's cannon to where the wall and the water meet, break the jar, hope a blue rupee pops out, line yourself up to where you are very close to falling off the ledge, throw boomerang at blue rupee before it disappears, hope that when you get the rupee that you dive OoB, then swim OoB to LBT. So, a 1/14 shot (actually less than that since sometimes the blue rupee doesn't even exist) of the jar actually having a blue rupee. And a 1/30 shot of actually getting the dive to work (just estimating...it seems like it would be that difficult since you have to line yourself up quickly before the blue rupee disappears...which leaves more room for mistakes).

So even though I think this would work, I'm not sure I can ever do it. If I somehow get this to work, I'll make a video.

I have a theory on how to skip fishing rod on an ems file on GC. You can dive on GC using a heart piece in Kakariko Gorge. Also works with the heart container in Arbiter's Grounds. Both are difficult to do on GC (much easier on Wii). What relevance does this have? Well, this should work when you get a blue rupee the 1st time after loading a save file since the animation is basically the same.

You can't use the boomerang to bring a blue rupee to the wooden planks (with full Lake Hylia, Lanayru in twilight). The rupee will disappear when you are swimming. The yellow rupees in Lake Hylia only appear when Lanayru twilight is cleared. But you won't have enough oxygen to make it to LBT when doing a yellow rupee dive OoB. Also, after breaking the rock entrance to LBT with B&C, I still can't find a way in with empty Lake Hylia.

This leaves only one other option I can think of...and it is hell. The first time you enter Lake Hylia, dive OoB using a blue rupee from a small jar. Now for the fun part...there are 14 small jars by Fyer's cannon. Sometimes the blue rupee doesn't even exist, and when it does, it is completely random what jar will have it. Carry a jar from Fyer's cannon to where the wall and the water meet, break the jar, hope a blue rupee pops out, line yourself up to where you are very close to falling off the ledge, throw boomerang at blue rupee before it disappears, hope that when you get the rupee that you dive OoB, then swim OoB to LBT. So, a 1/14 shot (actually less than that since sometimes the blue rupee doesn't even exist) of the jar actually having a blue rupee. And a 1/30 shot of actually getting the dive to work (just estimating...it seems like it would be that difficult since you have to line yourself up quickly before the blue rupee disappears...which leaves more room for mistakes).

So even though I think this would work, I'm not sure I can ever do it. If I somehow get this to work, I'll make a video.

KingOfHeart

2009-02-18 06:08:43 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Can you make a video just on the heart piece OOB. I'm just curious on seeing this work.

Tp_Fox

2009-02-18 07:55:24 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Segment 10

Some of you may have seen Segment 11 on my channel but I deleted it because I can improve it by about 3 seconds.

logitechSDAZ

2009-02-19 05:24:43 pm

Quote from KingOfHeart:

Can you make a video just on the heart piece OOB. I'm just curious on seeing this work.

I'll make a video later tonight of the heart piece dive in Kakariko Gorge on GC. I already have the heart container from AG, but the dive is in the same spot on GC as Wii (mirrored of course). It will also works in other spots. Here's a Wii video I did awhile back.

I can't do a rupee dive on GC yet. Makes a lot of sense. Roll Eyes

Getting a rupee...the animation is the same as the heart piece animation. So now I'm confused as to why the rupee dive isn't working yet. I also still don't know why the heart piece dive sometimes works on GC. Can't figure out a pattern at all. It must somehow be related to the exact position the heart piece is in when it touches Link, which then causes Link to somehow pivot at a weird angle and fall of the ledge. Because there are many times I can't get the heart piece dive to work even when I'm standing on the very edge.

[quote="KingOfHeart"]
Can you make a video just on the heart piece OOB. I'm just curious on seeing this work.
[/quote]

I'll make a video later tonight of the heart piece dive in Kakariko Gorge on GC. I already have the heart container from AG, but the dive is in the same spot on GC as Wii (mirrored of course). It will also works in other spots. Here's a Wii video I did awhile back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwDQUa3B-8A

I can't do a rupee dive on GC yet. Makes a lot of sense. ::) Getting a rupee...the animation is the same as the heart piece animation. So now I'm confused as to why the rupee dive isn't working yet. I also still don't know why the heart piece dive sometimes works on GC. Can't figure out a pattern at all. It must somehow be related to the exact position the heart piece is in when it touches Link, which then causes Link to somehow pivot at a weird angle and fall of the ledge. Because there are many times I can't get the heart piece dive to work even when I'm standing on the very edge.

Tp_Fox

Edit history:

Tp_Fox: 2009-02-19 10:12:56 pm

2009-02-19 09:56:31 pm

Q(O_o)Q

Upload segment 11 tommorow

logitechSDAZ

2009-02-20 12:20:31 am

Quote from KingOfHeart:

Can you make a video just on the heart piece OOB. I'm just curious on seeing this work.

http://files.filefront.com/HeartDiveGCwmv/;13328299;/fileinfo.html

Took me 45 minutes to get this to work once while recording. Before that, I got it to work only twice in an hour. This was done in a different spot than when it did it earlier in Kakariko gorge. So I think this can work in many spots in Kakariko gorge. I still don't understand what pattern to use yet. This should become easier if I can ever figure out why the dive actually ends up working. It either has something to do with where to face the camera or that maybe I was very slightly closer to the edge that time than any other time when the dive didn't work. This makes me think the rupee dive is still possible...just really difficult.

Tp_Fox

2009-02-20 08:06:41 am

Q(O_o)Q

Segment 11

KingOfHeart

2009-02-20 11:21:58 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

As long as rupees work the same way, it sounds very possible. I got to try this myself when I get the chance.