Twilight Princess (GCN)

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-21 02:51:09 pm

2009-01-21 02:16:20 pm

Quote from mzxrules:

What happens if the laranyu twilight is cleared before the Eldin Twilight?
I still want an answer to that more than anything.

I have no idea. Has anyone with AR tested this?

KingOfHeart

2009-01-21 06:08:03 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Are you asking what would happen if you clear the third area before the second?

If so then I don't see any possibility. The light spirit does not exist until you melt the ice. You can not melt the ice without the hot rock which needs the area to be out of the twilight realm.

SD2

2009-01-21 08:28:00 pm

dem tokay

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

Quote from SD2:

Quote from mzxrules:

What's the exact version number?

RVL P RZDE CAN
Directly above that, it says 62524C, the glitch works on my copy labeled 62524A

you're looking at the box. those numbers aren't important.

the important number is on the disc itself. look under it and try to get good lights to see it. it's near the hole.

There's a hell of a lot of numbers, clarification please.

By the way, my friend at school is giving me his copy, which he got when the game first came out, so if I can get up to that segment by Wednesday, I should be good.
Unfortunately, my semester 1 exams start on Friday, so I might be forced to study...

UchihaSasuke

2009-01-22 02:44:50 am

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

there should be a number like RVL-RZDE-0A-0 JPN in the data side of the disc and closer to where the disc is read. you need a light pointing in the right direction to see it.

if the number is different, it means it is a revised version.

something similar was used to detect versions of metroid prime and ssbm where many glitches didn't work. the original releases ended in 0-00 while the revised ones ended in 0-01 or 0-02 (metroid prime example: DOL-GM8E-0-00 is the first release that has all the glitches listed in m2k2 while DOL-GM8E-0-02 is a patched version where several glitches were fixed. it was easy to spot because it appeared when the game entered the player's choice lineup and that's why people call it the "player's choice version").

wii games seem to have a slightly different number structure but if your version is different, the bolded numbers (RVL-RZDE-0A-0 JPN) should be different. since there's no player's choice lineup on wii yet, patched versions are not as easy to spot so you'll need to check out the numbers under the disc (specifically, the number that looks like the one i posted. there's some code bar-like stuff in the same line where you find it)

there should be a number like RVL-RZDE-0A-0 JPN in the data side of the disc and closer to where the disc is read. you need a light pointing in the right direction to see it.

if the number is different, it means it is a revised version.

something similar was used to detect versions of metroid prime and ssbm where many glitches didn't work. the original releases ended in 0-00 while the revised ones ended in 0-01 or 0-02 (metroid prime example: DOL-GM8E-0-00 is the first release that has all the glitches listed in m2k2 while DOL-GM8E-0-02 is a patched version where several glitches were fixed. it was easy to spot because it appeared when the game entered the player's choice lineup and that's why people call it the "player's choice version").

wii games seem to have a slightly different number structure but if your version is different, the bolded numbers (RVL-RZDE-[b]0A-0[/b] JPN) should be different. since there's no player's choice lineup on wii yet, patched versions are not as easy to spot so you'll need to check out the numbers under the disc (specifically, the number that looks like the one i posted. there's some code bar-like stuff in the same line where you find it)

Wockes

2009-01-22 12:08:09 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

there should be a number like RVL-RZDE-0A-0 JPN in the data side of the disc and closer to where the disc is read. you need a light pointing in the right direction to see it.

if the number is different, it means it is a revised version.

something similar was used to detect versions of metroid prime and ssbm where many glitches didn't work. the original releases ended in 0-00 while the revised ones ended in 0-01 or 0-02 (metroid prime example: DOL-GM8E-0-00 is the first release that has all the glitches listed in m2k2 while DOL-GM8E-0-02 is a patched version where several glitches were fixed. it was easy to spot because it appeared when the game entered the player's choice lineup and that's why people call it the "player's choice version").

wii games seem to have a slightly different number structure but if your version is different, the bolded numbers (RVL-RZDE-0A-0 JPN) should be different. since there's no player's choice lineup on wii yet, patched versions are not as easy to spot so you'll need to check out the numbers under the disc (specifically, the number that looks like the one i posted. there's some code bar-like stuff in the same line where you find it)

Thats odd, mine says RVL-RZDP-0A-0 JPN and I got it 1-2 months after it came out in Europe.

[quote="UchihaSasuke"]
there should be a number like RVL-RZDE-0A-0 JPN in the data side of the disc and closer to where the disc is read. you need a light pointing in the right direction to see it.

if the number is different, it means it is a revised version.

something similar was used to detect versions of metroid prime and ssbm where many glitches didn't work. the original releases ended in 0-00 while the revised ones ended in 0-01 or 0-02 (metroid prime example: DOL-GM8E-0-00 is the first release that has all the glitches listed in m2k2 while DOL-GM8E-0-02 is a patched version where several glitches were fixed. it was easy to spot because it appeared when the game entered the player's choice lineup and that's why people call it the "player's choice version").

wii games seem to have a slightly different number structure but if your version is different, the bolded numbers (RVL-RZDE-0A-0 JPN) should be different. since there's no player's choice lineup on wii yet, patched versions are not as easy to spot so you'll need to check out the numbers under the disc (specifically, the number that looks like the one i posted. there's some code bar-like stuff in the same line where you find it)
[/quote]

Thats odd, mine says RVL-RZD[b]P[/b]-0A-0 JPN and I got it 1-2 months after it came out in Europe.

UchihaSasuke

2009-01-22 04:10:59 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

^oh i forgot. my examples apply to american versions.

PAL versions have a P instead of an E like you pointed out.

still, the bolded numbers should change in a revised version.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-23 04:20:49 am

2009-01-23 02:51:14 am

On Wii, you can get to Snowpeak Temple before clearing Lanayru twilight. Do bottle dive from top of Zora's Domain, swim OoB, then get behind the ice block. If you only have one bottle, there is a little bit of water close to the ice block and you can refill and do map glitch and get to Snowpeak Temple.

Toesrus had mentioned a few pages back that this was possible by talking to someone while holding a crate above your head. But, if he did that, the ice block would have already been gone and the twilight cleared. AFAIK you cannot get OoB on Gamecube by talking to someone with a crate in your hand since you can't talk to anyone in the twilight realm unless you're a wolf. You can get OoB with map glitch and possibly get behind the ice block, but then the next area wouldn't load.

Also, on Wii you can bottle dive and get to Lakebed Temple with no Zora armor and no water bombs. Of course, as far as you can get is the 2nd room.

SD2

2009-01-23 09:23:57 am

dem tokay

Quote from logitechSDAZ:

Also, on Wii you can bottle dive and get to Lakebed Temple with no Zora armor and no water bombs. Of course, as far as you can get is the 2nd room.

So should I be doing this during the extra long segment, or use the old way with waterbombs?

Uchica: I don't remember the exact number, bu my newer one is indeed a revised version.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-23 05:02:44 pm

2009-01-23 02:17:30 pm

Quote from SD2:

So should I be doing this during the extra long segment, or use the old way with waterbombs?

The old way with water bombs. When I got into LBT with no Zora armor or water bombs, I did it before I had even fought Kargaroc. There is a spot you can bottle dive when the lake isn't full that is almost directly over LBT...and even then, I barely made it before drowning. So far, I can't bottle dive into LBT when the lake is full. So this is useless. The only thing skippable at all would be during fixed ems. You wouldn't have to catch a bombfish or buy water bombs.

EDIT: Since a few difficult tricks are already being used, should this be included in the any% route? It is very hard imo to connect to the clawshot target. Almost has to be perfect timing. However, this isn't as hard imo as skipping shield/ordon sword. The problem though is that it comes in the middle of a long segment.

EDIT 2:
Bottle dive into LBT with no zora armor, no water bombs
Get behind ice block in Zora's Domain

[quote="SD2"]
So should I be doing this during the extra long segment, or use the old way with waterbombs?
[/quote]

The old way with water bombs.  When I got into LBT with no Zora armor or water bombs, I did it before I had even fought Kargaroc. There is a spot you can bottle dive when the lake isn't full that is almost directly over LBT...and even then, I barely made it before drowning. So far, I can't bottle dive into LBT when the lake is full. So this is useless. The only thing skippable at all would be during fixed ems. You wouldn't have to catch a bombfish or buy water bombs.

EDIT: Since a few difficult tricks are already being used, should this be included in the any% route? It is very hard imo to connect to the clawshot target. Almost has to be perfect timing. However, this isn't as hard imo as skipping shield/ordon sword. The problem though is that it comes in the middle of a long segment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oXJ--4KoOE&feature=channel_page

EDIT 2: 
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RMasJji_5I&feature=channel_page]Bottle dive into LBT with no zora armor, no water bombs[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHyaPO_Ih9U&feature=channel_page]Get behind ice block in Zora's Domain[/url]

THENINTENDOLUMINARY

2009-01-24 01:18:50 pm

Quote from mzxrules:

Forgot that the map glitch can't be triggered until the Zora's Domain portal is opened

You can warp cancel as soon as you warp the bridge back to kakariko gorge

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-25 02:50:15 pm

2009-01-24 01:49:59 pm

Just got into LBT with no Zora armor or water bombs with a full Lake Hylia in twilight realm on Wii. So, I guess if anyone is experimenting with 'fixed' ems on Wii and want to skip MDH, then after killing the giant bug, the fastest way to get to LBT is to get on one of the rafts close to the tear of light, bottle dive OoB and swim. You'll make it to LBT barely before drowning. Then empty Barnes bomb bag and get water bombs in LBT. Also, just found out that you can't get behind the ice block in Zora's Domain if there is no water current moving you. So, you have to do this before the current takes you to Lake Hylia. I don't expect anything at all to happen, but I'll go ahead and beat Snowpeak Temple before clearing Lanayru twilight.

EDIT: zeldagamern01 got Midna dive to work on Gamecube using a crate.

Don't know if it works in other spots yet. Probably only worked because of the way the wall was sloped. Using one of the rafts close to the final tear of light in Lake Hylia, if you can Midna dive with a crate then you could swim OoB to LBT. Then get ooccoo, warp out, get final tear, steal bomb bag, etc. This would skip fishing rod for a low% ems run.

Just got into LBT with no Zora armor or water bombs with a full Lake Hylia in twilight realm on Wii. So, I guess if anyone is experimenting with 'fixed' ems on Wii and want to skip MDH, then after killing the giant bug, the fastest way to get to LBT is to get on one of the rafts close to the tear of light, bottle dive OoB and swim. You'll make it to LBT barely before drowning. Then empty Barnes bomb bag and get water bombs in LBT. Also, just found out that you can't get behind the ice block in Zora's Domain if there is no water current moving you. So, you have to do this before the current takes you to Lake Hylia. I don't expect anything at all to happen, but I'll go ahead and beat Snowpeak Temple before clearing Lanayru twilight.

EDIT: zeldagamern01 got Midna dive to work on Gamecube using a crate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go6wd6WlItU&feature=channel_page

Don't know if it works in other spots yet. Probably only worked because of the way the wall was sloped. Using one of the rafts close to the final tear of light in Lake Hylia, if you can Midna dive with a crate then you could swim OoB to LBT. Then get ooccoo, warp out, get final tear, steal bomb bag, etc. This would skip fishing rod for a low% ems run.

Fred

2009-01-25 11:26:35 pm

Not Really Hobbes

Wait, how would you clear the first room of Lakebed without water bombs in the first place?

logitechSDAZ

2009-01-26 01:17:20 am

Quote from Fred:

Wait, how would you clear the first room of Lakebed without water bombs in the first place?

Savewarp. It puts you past the tunnel.

Fred

2009-01-26 04:38:15 am

Not Really Hobbes

I thought the savewarp only happened in the Wii version?

Regardless, this doesn't do the SS any good. Sad

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-26 05:51:43 pm

2009-01-26 11:07:16 am

Quote from Fred:

I thought the savewarp only happened in the Wii version?

Regardless, this doesn't do the SS any good. Sad

Savewarp also works on GC. The current route (catching 1 bombfish, bomb chest in Snowpeak, Goron bomb bag) is still in effect since it does not seem possible to dive OoB on GC before collecting the final tear. Same with Wii. Although you can dive OoB and get into LBT on Wii, you can't get past the 2nd room.

EDIT: Holy shit...you might be able complete the 2nd room of LBT on Wii without using any bombs at all. I'll have to test it on Wii to make sure though. On Gamecube, I lured a helmasaur to the edge, backed up, L-targeted and made it on. When bouncing off the helmasaur, I mashed the B button a couple of times and barely made it on the platform. After getting on that platform, you're set. All you have to do is get on the ^ shaped platform, turn into a wolf, and jump to the ledge of the next platform and pull yourself up. If I can get this to work on Wii, then this should end up being a timesaver on SD2's speedrun (I'll have to time it to make sure and come up with a different route for a couple of segments). This also means a 2nd ems fix and that the game can be completed on newer versions of TP where map glitch doesn't work...assuming that newer versions still allow bottle dive. Fishing rod would be skipped also.

EDIT 2: Just got past 2nd room of LBT on Wii. I'll make a video later.

[quote="Fred"]
I thought the savewarp only happened in the Wii version?

Regardless, this doesn't do the SS any good. :(
[/quote]

Savewarp also works on GC. The current route (catching 1 bombfish, bomb chest in Snowpeak, Goron bomb bag) is still in effect since it does not seem possible to dive OoB on GC before collecting the final tear. Same with Wii. Although you can dive OoB and get into LBT on Wii, you can't get past the 2nd room.

EDIT: Holy shit...you might be able complete the 2nd room of LBT on Wii without using any bombs at all. I'll have to test it on Wii to make sure though. On Gamecube, I lured a helmasaur to the edge, backed up, L-targeted and made it on. When bouncing off the helmasaur, I mashed the B button a couple of times and barely made it on the platform. After getting on that platform, you're set. All you have to do is get on the ^ shaped platform, turn into a wolf, and jump to the ledge of the next platform and pull yourself up. If I can get this to work on Wii, then this should end up being a timesaver on SD2's speedrun (I'll have to time it to make sure and come up with a different route for a couple of segments). This also means a 2nd ems fix and that the game can be completed on newer versions of TP where map glitch doesn't work...assuming that newer versions still allow bottle dive. Fishing rod would be skipped also.

EDIT 2: Just got past 2nd room of LBT on Wii. I'll make a video later.

mzxrules

2009-01-26 07:19:09 pm

zeldaspeedruns.com

the rod can't be skipped in games where the Map Glitch is fixed though, being that it's the only way up the mountain...

Great find though... does it save any time, or would it be just a low % thing if ever such a run was considered? Also, you can dive into Lakebed without zora armor on the Gamecube now?

Also, what'd happen if you collected the Eldin Province Tear thing, then filled it with 9 tears, and then AR'd to Laranyu Twilight and tried to collect the tear in Castle tear from that bug near Telma's Bar?

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-27 11:12:38 am

2009-01-26 09:43:09 pm

Quote from mzxrules:

the rod can't be skipped in games where the Map Glitch is fixed though, being that it's the only way up the mountain...

Great find though... does it save any time, or would it be just a low % thing if ever such a run was considered? Also, you can dive into Lakebed without zora armor on the Gamecube now?

Also, what'd happen if you collected the Eldin Province Tear thing, then filled it with 9 tears, and then AR'd to Laranyu Twilight and tried to collect the tear in Castle tear from that bug near Telma's Bar?

Yeah, the rod can't be skipped where map glitch is fixed, but at least newer versions of TP on Wii can be beaten with ems (or can it...does bottle dive work in newer versions?). And in older versions of TP where map glitch works, it might turn out to be slower to skip fishing rod on a low% run. If you skip fishing rod and slingshot, you would still need a bottle for bottle dive. So, you'd have to buy one from Coro.

I haven't been able to dive into LBT on Gamecube. But then again, I couldn't even get the dive in Goron Mines to work like zeldagamern01 did. Maybe he can somehow dive into LBT on GC. For Wii, I'm not sure if this saves time or not yet. I'll have to do some testing. As of now, luring the helmasaur over to the edge takes time. Right now, my thoughts are...

1. get Lakebed ooccoo
2. warp out with ooccoo, get final tear
3. steal bomb bag, empty bomb bag
4. get water bomb chest that is underwater in room before Deku Toad, blow up rock
5. warp out with ooccoo, get Goron bomb bag
6. warp back to LBT with ooccoo jr., kill Deku Toad, save
7. empty Goron bomb bag, get water bomb treasure chest, knock down the stalactites in 2nd room
8. kill Morpheel

This sounds slower, but it might not be since you are skipping the bombfish grotto. Warping to Kakariko, calling Epona and riding to the grotto alone takes over 1:10. And then digging into the grotto, killing skullfish, and catching a bombfish will take at least another 35 seconds. It is a little faster to bottle dive into LBT than it is to blow up the rock and enter.

Are you talking about getting the Eldin vessel of light, getting all but one tear, then getting the tear of light in Castle Town? I have no clue if that would work or not. It's an interesting idea. If the game doesn't check for a specific vessel of light from a specific location, then grabbing a tear from Lanayru to fill the Eldin vessel of light should work.

bottle dive to LBT after killing giant bug
2nd room of LBT with no bombs

[quote="mzxrules"]
the rod can't be skipped in games where the Map Glitch is fixed though, being that it's the only way up the mountain...

Great find though... does it save any time, or would it be just a low % thing if ever such a run was considered? Also, you can dive into Lakebed without zora armor on the Gamecube now?

Also, what'd happen if you collected the Eldin Province Tear thing, then filled it with 9 tears, and then AR'd to Laranyu Twilight and tried to collect the tear in Castle tear from that bug near Telma's Bar?
[/quote]

Yeah, the rod can't be skipped where map glitch is fixed, but at least newer versions of TP on Wii can be beaten with ems (or can it...does bottle dive work in newer versions?).  And in older versions of TP where map glitch works, it might turn out to be slower to skip fishing rod on a low% run. If you skip fishing rod and slingshot, you would still need a bottle for bottle dive. So, you'd have to buy one from Coro.

I haven't been able to dive into LBT on Gamecube. But then again, I couldn't even get the dive in Goron Mines to work like zeldagamern01 did. Maybe he can somehow dive into LBT on GC. For Wii, I'm not sure if this saves time or not yet. I'll have to do some testing. As of now, luring the helmasaur over to the edge takes time. Right now, my thoughts are...

1. get Lakebed ooccoo
2. warp out with ooccoo, get final tear
3. steal bomb bag, empty bomb bag
4. get water bomb chest that is underwater in room before Deku Toad, blow up rock
5. warp out with ooccoo, get Goron bomb bag
6. warp back to LBT with ooccoo jr., kill Deku Toad, save
7. empty Goron bomb bag, get water bomb treasure chest, knock down the stalactites in 2nd room
8. kill Morpheel

This sounds slower, but it might not be since you are skipping the bombfish grotto. Warping to Kakariko, calling Epona and riding to the grotto alone takes over 1:10. And then digging into the grotto, killing skullfish, and catching a bombfish will take at least another 35 seconds. It is a little faster to bottle dive into LBT than it is to blow up the rock and enter.

Are you talking about getting the Eldin vessel of light, getting all but one tear, then getting the tear of light in Castle Town? I have no clue if that would work or not. It's an interesting idea. If the game doesn't check for a specific vessel of light from a specific location, then grabbing a tear from Lanayru to fill the Eldin vessel of light should work.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WePfDZI9D6U&feature=channel_page]bottle dive to LBT after killing giant bug[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vonSb6hv9NU&feature=channel_page]2nd room of LBT with no bombs[/url]

logitechSDAZ

2009-01-27 02:36:55 pm

SD2. Tell me if you think this would save time. Should LBT be beaten before getting B&C? The reason I ask is because on Wii won't Snowpeak take a lot more time if you don't do this?

I fail to remember the fastest current method on Wii (without using spinner) so this might be way off the mark as of now...

(from 2:00 to 4:00)

If you do Snowpeak after Arbiter's Grounds, then Deku Toad will take 10- 15 seconds longer, you'll get a 20 second Ashei cutscene, Death Sword will take 10 seconds longer without B&C. So, if using the spinner+bomb in Snowpeak doesn't save at least 45 seconds, then you might as well get B&C before fighting Deku Toad.

BB90

2009-01-27 09:15:21 pm

Hi,

Is the Wii version of the Map Glitch possible in the PAL version of the game? I've got a PAL version from launch and can't get it to work for the life of me; When I'm pressing up to call Midna between the end of the "empty bottle" animation and the map screen coming up, Midna either doesn't respond to my call (so when I choose a warp spot on the map, I warp there), or she starts talking to me before the Map screen appears (and the map screen appears afterwards).

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-28 12:14:03 am

2009-01-27 11:36:21 pm

I found a way to Midna dive into LBT on Wii. This is done with a jar the first time you enter Lake Hylia. This skips getting a bottle for low% ems speedrun. To map glitch up Snowpeak mountain, use Auru's memo.

mzxrules it's snowing

2009-01-28 10:53:12 am

Quote from BB90:

Hi,

Is the Wii version of the Map Glitch possible in the PAL version of the game? I've got a PAL version from launch and can't get it to work for the life of me; When I'm pressing up to call Midna between the end of the "empty bottle" animation and the map screen coming up, Midna either doesn't respond to my call (so when I choose a warp spot on the map, I warp there), or she starts talking to me before the Map screen appears (and the map screen appears afterwards).

The timing for this trick is pretty tricky at times. What you have to do sometimes is time your Minda prompt right at the end of the animation actually, almost to the point where you think that the call to Minda won't register.

Or, as an alternative, you can do the map glitch off of signs without minda. This method is much easier to do, except it can't be used everywhere. What you do is you go up to a sign or a guard and press A and 1 at the same time. If done right the map will open, you choose a warp spot, then you read the sign.

I wonder if the A and Map button method will work on fixed versions of the game?

[quote="BB90"]
Hi,

Is the Wii version of the Map Glitch possible in the PAL version of the game? I've got a PAL version from launch and can't get it to work for the life of me; When I'm pressing up to call Midna between the end of the "empty bottle" animation and the map screen coming up, Midna either doesn't respond to my call (so when I choose a warp spot on the map, I warp there), or she starts talking to me before the Map screen appears (and the map screen appears afterwards).
[/quote]
The timing for this trick is pretty tricky at times. What you have to do sometimes is time your Minda prompt right at the end of the animation actually, almost to the point where you think that the call to Minda won't register.

Or, as an alternative, you can do the map glitch off of signs without minda. This method is much easier to do, except it can't be used everywhere. What you do is you go up to a sign or a guard and press A and 1 at the same time. If done right the map will open, you choose a warp spot, then you read the sign.

I wonder if the A and Map button method will work on fixed versions of the game?

SD2

Edit history:

SD2: 2009-01-29 10:26:04 am

2009-01-28 01:03:37 pm

dem tokay

Quote from logitechSDAZ:

SD2. Tell me if you think this would save time. Should LBT be beaten before getting B&C? The reason I ask is because on Wii won't Snowpeak take a lot more time if you don't do this?

I fail to remember the fastest current method on Wii (without using spinner) so this might be way off the mark as of now...

(from 2:00 to 4:00)

If you do Snowpeak after Arbiter's Grounds, then Deku Toad will take 10- 15 seconds longer, you'll get a 20 second Ashei cutscene, Death Sword will take 10 seconds longer without B&C. So, if using the spinner+bomb in Snowpeak doesn't save at least 45 seconds, then you might as well get B&C before fighting Deku Toad.

I think AG before SR is faster. Without spinner, you have to get the first food piece, which will lose more then the 45 seconds.
By the way, picked up the TP from my friend, the map glitch works on that one. Run will be continued when I'm allowed to use my DVD recorder. >_>

With this change, I'll start laying out the Wii route in the wiki, ill edit this post when it's up.

EDIT: This might not be faster any more. We have to go through the first bit of LBT to grab Ooccoo, she's in the room with the staircase. That adds another 30 or so seconds.

EDIT 2: With 10 seconds of errors, I got segment 19 done. Easily the hardest segment thus far, and easily my worst performance thus far. At this point, however, I want to get on with the damn game, so I'm keeping it.
Here it is.

[quote="logitechSDAZ"]
SD2. Tell me if you think this would save time. Should LBT be beaten before getting B&C? The reason I ask is because on Wii won't Snowpeak take a lot more time if you don't do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwo8vuS675E

I fail to remember the fastest current method on Wii (without using spinner) so this might be way off the mark as of now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nl8xkQczGI&feature=channel_page (from 2:00 to 4:00)

If you do Snowpeak after Arbiter's Grounds, then Deku Toad will take 10- 15 seconds longer, you'll get a 20 second Ashei cutscene, Death Sword will take 10 seconds longer without B&C.  So, if using the spinner+bomb in Snowpeak doesn't save at least 45 seconds, then you might as well get B&C before fighting Deku Toad.

[/quote]
I think AG before SR is faster.  Without spinner, you have to get the first food piece, which will lose more then the 45 seconds.
By the way, picked up the TP from my friend, the map glitch works on that one.  Run will be continued when I'm allowed to use my DVD recorder. >_>

With this change, I'll start laying out the Wii route in the wiki, ill edit this post when it's up.

EDIT: This might not be faster any more.  We have to go through the first bit of LBT to grab Ooccoo, she's in the room with the staircase.  That adds another 30 or so seconds.

EDIT 2: With 10 seconds of errors, I got segment 19 done.  Easily the hardest segment thus far, and easily my worst performance thus far.  At this point, however, I want to get on with the damn game, so I'm keeping it.
[url=http://files.filefront.com/tpseg19mp4/;13132967;/fileinfo.html]Here it is[/url].

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-31 12:30:36 am

2009-01-29 02:05:43 pm

Quote from SD2:

This might not be faster any more. We have to go through the first bit of LBT to grab Ooccoo, she's in the room with the staircase. That adds another 30 or so seconds.

new ems fix
1. Deku Toad is slower (by 30 seconds or so)
2. 2nd, 4th rooms of LBT are slower (46 seconds...including having to go through the 2nd room a 2nd time and knock down the stalactites)
3. Death Sword is slower (10 seconds)
4. Ashei cutscene (20 seconds)
5. Snowpeak temple - from time of pulling out a bomb and using spinner to make it explode and get over the ledge - (8 seconds)
Total = 1:54

old ems fix
1. getting into LBT is slower. However, with new ems fix, you have to collect the final tear later on. So, getting into LBT using water bombs doesn't take any longer overall.
2. you have to use ooccoo/ooccoo jr. to warp 5 times. with new ems fix, it is 4 times. that extra ooccoo warp (16 seconds)
3. warp to Kakariko (15 seconds)
4. turn into human, go to the grass whistle, call Epona, get on her (16 seconds)
5. get off Epona, turn into wolf, dig into grotto (10 seconds)
6. turn into human, kill skullfish, catch bombfish (let's say 28 seconds. That means you would kill all skullfish in 7 seconds)
7. snowpeak temple - from time of pulling out bomb to get on ledge until getting to room before B&C - (2 minutes)
Total = 3:25

I also found out you can Midna dive into LBT close to the final tear. And skipping fishing rod, bottle, slingshot saves 2:05. But since you have those items, that time saved won't count.

In future Wii speedruns, the time saved will be around 3:36. In your current run, the time saved will be around 1:31.

EDIT: After doing Midna dive on the wooden planks a lot, I'm thinking now that it should be done in the segment after getting the Vessel of Light and not after fighting the giant bug. 2 reasons...the giant bug breaks crates as it is moving in the water. And it seems to always break the crate closest to the Midna dive spot. That can be avoided if you jump in the water and move away from the wooden planks when the giant bug is moving around, but that is somewhat annoying. Also, the Midna dive is tough to do, especially quickly. It would suck to play a segment for over 7 minutes just to end up screwing up on the Midna dive. I'll make a video later showing where to Midna dive. In SD2's case, bottle dive will probably be used since he has a bottle and it is a lot easier to do. Doing the Midna/bottle dive after getting vessel of light doesn't waste anymore time than doing it after killing the giant bug.

EDIT 2: The time wasted to get Lakebed's ooccoo is 11 seconds. After getting off the lever after the stairs have moved, it takes 10 seconds to get to ooccoo. After the cutscene, it takes 7 seconds to get to the next door. If you did not get ooccoo at all and went to the next door after you moved the stairs, it takes 6 seconds (going by Jiano's speedrun). All you have to do is jump off the ledge onto the stairs and roll to the door after getting ooccoo. I'm not counting the time for the ooccoo cutscene since the same ooccoo cutscene would happen in Snowpeak with the other ems route. As far as the 2nd room of Lakebed...the fastest I've done it is 20 seconds slower than TpFox. When going through the 2nd room the 2nd time, it takes me 15 seconds longer than TpFox. This is because you have to break down the stalactites, whereas in TpFox's run, they were already broken down when he went through that room a 2nd time. So, 35 seconds slower when adding up going through the 2nd room twice, and 11 seconds slower in the 4th room. Sorry for such a long post. I just want to make sure I'm timing everything correctly. I'll probably edit this post again later with the Midna dive spot.

[quote="SD2"]

This might not be faster any more.  We have to go through the first bit of LBT to grab Ooccoo, she's in the room with the staircase.  That adds another 30 or so seconds.

[/quote]

new ems fix
1. Deku Toad is slower (by 30 seconds or so)
2. 2nd, 4th rooms of LBT are slower (46 seconds...including having to go through the 2nd room a 2nd time and knock down the stalactites)
3. Death Sword is slower (10 seconds)
4. Ashei cutscene (20 seconds)
5. Snowpeak temple - from time of pulling out a bomb and using spinner to make it explode and get over the ledge - (8 seconds)
Total = 1:54

old ems fix
1. getting into LBT is slower. However, with new ems fix, you have to collect the final tear later on. So, getting into LBT using water bombs doesn't take any longer overall. 
2. you have to use ooccoo/ooccoo jr. to warp 5 times. with new ems fix, it is 4 times. that extra ooccoo warp (16 seconds)
3. warp to Kakariko (15 seconds)
4. turn into human, go to the grass whistle, call Epona, get on her (16 seconds)
5. get off Epona, turn into wolf, dig into grotto (10 seconds)
6. turn into human, kill skullfish, catch bombfish (let's say 28 seconds. That means you would kill all skullfish in 7 seconds)
7. snowpeak temple - from time of pulling out bomb to get on ledge until getting to room before B&C - (2 minutes)
Total = 3:25

I also found out you can Midna dive into LBT close to the final tear. And skipping fishing rod, bottle, slingshot saves 2:05. But since you have those items, that time saved won't count.

In future Wii speedruns, the time saved will be around 3:36. In your current run, the time saved will be around 1:31.

EDIT: After doing Midna dive on the wooden planks a lot, I'm thinking now that it should be done in the segment after getting the Vessel of Light and not after fighting the giant bug. 2 reasons...the giant bug breaks crates as it is moving in the water. And it seems to always break the crate closest to the Midna dive spot. That can be avoided if you jump in the water and move away from the wooden planks when the giant bug is moving around, but that is somewhat annoying. Also, the Midna dive is tough to do, especially quickly. It would suck to play a segment for over 7 minutes just to end up screwing up on the Midna dive. I'll make a video later showing where to Midna dive. In SD2's case, bottle dive will probably be used since he has a bottle and it is a lot easier to do. Doing the Midna/bottle dive after getting vessel of light doesn't waste anymore time than doing it after killing the giant bug.

EDIT 2: The time wasted to get Lakebed's ooccoo is 11 seconds. After getting off the lever after the stairs have moved, it takes 10 seconds to get to ooccoo. After the cutscene, it takes 7 seconds to get to the next door. If you did not get ooccoo at all and went to the next door after you moved the stairs, it takes 6 seconds (going by Jiano's speedrun). All you have to do is jump off the ledge onto the stairs and roll to the door after getting ooccoo. I'm not counting the time for the ooccoo cutscene since the same ooccoo cutscene would happen in Snowpeak with the other ems route. As far as the 2nd room of Lakebed...the fastest I've done it is 20 seconds slower than TpFox.  When going through the 2nd room the 2nd time, it takes me 15 seconds longer than TpFox. This is because you have to break down the stalactites, whereas in TpFox's run, they were already broken down when he went through that room a 2nd time. So, 35 seconds slower when adding up going through the 2nd room twice, and 11 seconds slower in the 4th room. Sorry for such a long post. I just want to make sure I'm timing everything correctly. I'll probably edit this post again later with the Midna dive spot.

SD2

2009-01-30 07:11:00 pm

dem tokay

Not even going to bother quoting that. Tongue

So, this is the new route:
Vessel of light
Bottle/Midna Dive
Ooccoo
Ooccoo warp out
clear twilight
steal bomb bag
get some water bombs
goron bomb bag
beat Deku toad, clawshot, savewarp
Empty bomb bag, bombs in first room, beat morpheel
Arbiter's grounds

Logitech, can you check 3 things for me -
If there are water bombs in the staircase room,
If savewarping with Ooccoo Jr., then using him after the savewarp will still return you to the same spot in the temple and
If it is possible to use Ooccoo Jr. underwater - Please and thanks

Oh, and Deku Toad is definitely less than a 30 second loss, IMO, we just need more water bombs. Or, we can use the Goron bomb bag bombs.

logitechSDAZ

Edit history:

logitechSDAZ: 2009-01-31 11:26:37 am

2009-01-30 10:01:37 pm

Quote from SD2:

Logitech, can you check 3 things for me -
If there are water bombs in the staircase room,
If savewarping with Ooccoo Jr., then using him after the savewarp will still return you to the same spot in the temple and
If it is possible to use Ooccoo Jr. underwater - Please and thanks
Oh, and Deku Toad is definitely less than a 30 second loss, IMO, we just need more water bombs. Or, we can use the Goron bomb bag bombs.

I don't think there are water bombs in the staircase room. I'll double check though.
Savewarping with ooccoo jr. works. When you warp back, it will still put you back in the room you warped out of.
Ooccoo Jr. can be used underwater...but only if you do an ooccoo jr. dive. Tongue

EDIT: Midna dive to LBT after vessel of light

EDIT 2: For both GC and Wii speedruns...when in Death Mountain waiting for the lava rock to fall, turn into a human before the cutscene. After warping the lava rock, you'll still be a human and you'll be on solid ground in ZD. Then after the Midna text, hold down/left on analog stick (down/right on GC version), put on iron boots for a second, and skip the Rutela cutscene. Saves 4 seconds.

EDIT 3: Sorry for uploading so many Midna dive videos. This is my last one unless I can find a way to do it on GC. I deleted the other videos where I went into LBT while out of bounds. They were all looking too similar.

[quote="SD2"]
Logitech, can you check 3 things for me -
If there are water bombs in the staircase room,
If savewarping with Ooccoo Jr., then using him after the savewarp will still return you to the same spot in the temple and
If it is possible to use Ooccoo Jr. underwater - Please and thanks
Oh, and Deku Toad is definitely less than a 30 second loss, IMO, we just need more water bombs.  Or, we can use the Goron bomb bag bombs.
[/quote]

I don't think there are water bombs in the staircase room. I'll double check though.
Savewarping with ooccoo jr. works. When you warp back, it will still put you back in the room you warped out of. 
Ooccoo Jr. can be used underwater...but only if you do an ooccoo jr. dive. :P

EDIT: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNYs3nTMUKE]Midna dive to LBT after vessel of light[/url]

EDIT 2: For both GC and Wii speedruns...when in Death Mountain waiting for the lava rock to fall, turn into a human before the cutscene. After warping the lava rock, you'll still be a human and you'll be on solid ground in ZD. Then after the Midna text, hold down/left on analog stick (down/right on GC version), put on iron boots for a second, and skip the Rutela cutscene. Saves 4 seconds.

EDIT 3: Sorry for uploading so many Midna dive videos. This is my last one unless I can find a way to do it on GC. I deleted the other videos where I went into LBT while out of bounds. They were all looking too similar.