Turok 2 hard mode speed run

2012-02-11 06:49:51 am

ahh it's probably nothing then. I just seemed to remember the entrance being blocked unless I killed the big one as well but I'm not sure really. But yeah I know the trigger malfunctions are rife in this game

giganotabehemoth87

2012-02-20 04:15:41 pm

I may have asked this before but I'm driving myself mad trying to brainstorm the best route at the end of the hive.
after doing the second embryo you make your way to collect the satchel charges. Would it be faster to head straight back to the master computer, using the water boost from the little pool of water concealing the portal. Or collect the satchel charges and jump into the pool and warp to the 3rd embryo, finish that job and then go to the master computer ?
There's even an idea which I have tested and does work (although I believe it would be some seconds slower anyway) is to use that jumping glitch from underneath those hovering platforms. The ones that you hop over to go to the Primagen key. I could use the trick there from underneath and go do the Primagen key, exit and then do the master computer.

I think there isn't much in it time wise between any of those options but I just feel like picking the absolute fastest. When I get to it I will probably do a little testing. Either way, what is your route for this final bit ?

I may have asked this before but I'm driving myself mad trying to brainstorm the best route at the end of the hive. 
after doing the second embryo you make your way to collect the satchel charges. Would it be faster to head straight back to the master computer, using the water boost from the little pool of water concealing the portal. Or collect the satchel charges and jump into the pool and warp to the 3rd embryo, finish that job and then go to the master computer ?
There's even an idea which I have tested and does work (although I believe it would be some seconds slower anyway) is to use that jumping glitch from underneath those hovering platforms. The ones that you hop over to go to the Primagen key. I could use the trick there from underneath and go do the Primagen key, exit and then do the master computer.

I think there isn't much in it time wise between any of those options but I just feel like picking the absolute fastest. When I get to it I will probably do a little testing. Either way, what is your route for this final bit ?

Squeebles

2012-02-21 03:57:55 am

I have a hard time saying which is fastest, and to be honest my route is based more on the lack of save points than anything else. I go for the P-key first, then all the satchel charges except for the one on the ground behind the platform that leads to the P-key, then the embryo, and finally on the way back I jump down and get the last satchel charge as I go to the master computer.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-02-21 02:35:31 pm

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-02-21 02:30:23 pm

2012-02-21 02:08:26 pm

Yeah thinking about it logically (which for some reason was very hard for me to do) there isn't anything between any choice of route here. Since the same mode of traversial (water boost or without) occurs everywhere no matter what order you do anything. Except leaving the embryo till last would have been the fastest by a few seconds. If only you didn't have to collect the damn satchel up high on the bridge there. you could have kept an initial water boost collecting those far out satchels near the end portal and head back to the master computer directly with the water boost, instead of it being interrupted on your exit after having done an early embryo visit. Which unfortunately has to be done Sad

and yes i did try a overhead item trick. I'm positive it doesn't work here because the satchel is too far into the bridge and I don't think there's any hitbox transparency through the bridge. Not to mention the satchel is rather conveniently sitting above the lava risking the whole procedure even more, lol

I also tested some damage boosts from some of the mantids on the bridges in this area going in directions I need to go in and surprisingly they work out the same as simply falling off the bridges as normal. One of which though was about a second faster which I may do in the run for some fun factor, at the cost of health of course if I can afford it.

Yeah thinking about it logically (which for some reason was very hard for me to do) there isn't anything between any choice of route here. Since the same mode of traversial (water boost or without) occurs everywhere no matter what order you do anything. Except leaving the embryo till last would have been the fastest by a few seconds. If only you didn't have to collect the damn satchel up high on the bridge there. you could have kept an initial water boost collecting those far out satchels near the end portal and head back to the master computer directly with the water boost, instead of it being interrupted on your exit after having done an early embryo visit. Which unfortunately has to be done :( and yes i did try a overhead item trick. I'm positive it doesn't work here because the satchel is too far into the bridge and I don't think there's any hitbox transparency through the bridge. Not to mention the satchel is rather conveniently sitting above the lava risking the whole procedure even more, lol

I also tested some damage boosts from some of the mantids on the bridges in this area going in directions I need to go in and surprisingly they work out the same as simply falling off the bridges as normal. One of which though was about a second faster which I may do in the run for some fun factor, at the cost of health of course if I can afford it.

Squeebles

2012-02-23 07:15:41 am

Okay then, and in case I haven't mentioned it before I'll tell you the most recent things I've learned about making the damage boost for the P-key work better; First wait just outside the tunnel entrance just as far to the right as it lets you go(might've already said that)- Next after getting back to back with the mantid crouch to slow yourself down both moving away from them and when you land- Since you're now slower you can start moving forward just about as soon as you hear the sound for the melee attack and time your jump so he hits you on your way up- After you land hold forward until you come up on the curve, then start holding diagonal left/forward to try and wedge yourself into the ramp and stop Turok from sliding much farther. I've tried holding back, crouching after I land, rapidly tapping jump, and turning while holding forward into the ramp and I can confirm that in the N64 version none of these things can change the direction or speed of the slide to any meaningful degree.

Okay then, and in case I haven't mentioned it before I'll tell you the most recent things I've learned about making the damage boost for the P-key work better; First wait just outside the tunnel entrance just as far to the right as it lets you go(might've already said that)- Next after getting back to back with the mantid crouch to slow yourself down both moving away from them and when you land- Since you're now slower you can start moving forward just about as soon as you hear the sound for the melee attack and time your jump so he hits you on your way up- After you land hold forward until you come up on the curve, then start holding diagonal left/forward to try and wedge yourself into the ramp and stop Turok from sliding much farther.  I've tried holding back, crouching after I land, rapidly tapping jump, and turning while holding forward into the ramp and I can confirm that in the N64 version none of these things can change the direction or speed of the slide to any meaningful degree.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-13 01:50:29 pm

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-13 01:45:51 pm

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-13 01:43:52 pm

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-13 01:43:17 pm

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-13 01:27:13 pm

2012-03-13 01:15:36 pm

So glad this level is finished...

I'm most pleased with this one so far in the run. So much stuff I couldn't begin to cover all of them here.
A few different strategies to what I said I was going to do like using sunfire pods, I actually didn't need to use any at all. More damage boosts than previously planned due to clever Mantid manipulation so they see me quickly and trigger the swipe earlier. The Two damage boosts near the end save two seconds each Tongue

Also near one of those boosts you'll see me switch to plasma rifle and snipe through the fog toward the platform. That's because although the switch activates the platform, it doesn't actually start moving until you see the platform. So sniping allows me to see it early thus making the platform do it's small journey in tandem with my arrival. It saves one second, lol.
While doing the last segment I found a trick to speed the totem up by about 5 seconds which cuts out the long wait for the blue beams to come down and kill any remaining enemies. The actual trick is to simply kill the last enemies so fast that no others have time to spawn, so no blue beam has to come down at all, thus finishing the totem much sooner. It's unfortunately extremely hard to do and pretty relegated to luck in my opinion, but it's certainly something a TAS can do. One such attempt had me doing this trick by accident and finishing the segment 3 seconds better than the segment you see in this video. Unfortunately the queen boss was a pile of shit so I didn't keep it. This attempt however was nice , fast and smooth throughout, at the cost of 3 seconds. Did I mention I probably did this segment about 450 times....I was beginning to genuinely hate the game....

Time is 1 hour 30 minutes and 52 seconds. I'm getting quietly confident again about sub 2 hour. The Hive took approximately 20 minutes just like level 2 and 4. Lets hope Primagens lightship really is less than that; But even if it's about the same, I still feel there's a good chance of success :P.

So glad this level is finished...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2XhZsZlbyw&feature=youtu.be

I'm most pleased with this one so far in the run. So much stuff I couldn't begin to cover all of them here.  
A few different strategies to what I said I was going to do like using sunfire pods, I actually didn't need to use any at all. More damage boosts than previously planned due to clever Mantid manipulation so they see me quickly and trigger the swipe earlier. The Two damage boosts near the end save two seconds each :P Also near one of those boosts you'll see me switch to plasma rifle and snipe through the fog toward the platform. That's because although the switch activates the platform, it doesn't actually start moving until you see the platform. So sniping allows me to see it early thus making the platform do it's small journey in tandem with my arrival. It saves one second, lol.
While doing the last segment I found a trick to speed the totem up by about 5 seconds which cuts out the long wait for the blue beams to come down and kill any remaining enemies. The actual trick is to simply kill the last enemies so fast that  no others have time to spawn, so no blue beam has to come down at all, thus finishing the totem much sooner. It's unfortunately extremely hard to do and pretty relegated to luck in my opinion, but it's certainly something a TAS can do. One such attempt had me doing this trick by accident and finishing the segment 3 seconds better than the segment you see in this video. Unfortunately the queen boss was a pile of shit so I didn't keep it. This attempt however was nice , fast and smooth throughout, at the cost of 3 seconds. Did I mention I probably did this segment about 450 times....I was beginning to genuinely hate the game....

Time is 1 hour 30 minutes and 52 seconds. I'm getting quietly confident again about sub 2 hour. The Hive took approximately 20 minutes just like level 2 and 4. Lets hope Primagens lightship really is less than that; But even if it's about the same, I still feel there's a good chance of success :P.

Squeebles

2012-03-15 09:11:43 am

Man, that was just damn awesome! I loved the execution on the boosts, the fighting was ninja smooth, and it really amazes me that you were able to measure out the the health so well on the suicide runs- One time I was seriously wondering how you were going to stay alive long enough to finish the embryo fight ^0^;

phazon

2012-03-15 11:15:52 am

That run was awesome @_@, great work as usual. I'd point out a part I was particularly impressed with, but honestly I was impressed by the whole thing :P.

Gigan

2012-03-18 07:11:53 pm

Thanks guys ! glad you liked it. The thing with the suicide runs was simply practice paying off in allowing me to find a method for staying alive during the embryo killing, circling the embryo while flaming it is very effective at drastically minimizing any hits taken from the spawning Manitids. On the other hand if I somehow got to the embryo with a bit more health than required, I would have stood still while flaming to drain my health and hope that the suicide would happen immediately after killing the embryo. Of course 95% of the attempts didn't go according to plan, so what you see here is each segment being a very lucky one as well as being a totally planned strategy.

This level to me particularly, stands out as being one to go through a lot debate if one was to attempt the game/level single segmented. There's just so much here I wouldn't recommend on a single segment run. In fact I quite like the idea of optimizing a SS run just to see what things could be feasibly attempted and what perhaps shouldn't be. Certainly I wouldn't bother with the damage boosts (except the Primagen key ones of course) just because the Mantids are too unreliable and the gains are minimal. The first cave door key in level four gotten by the overhead item trick is another that I would have to debate myself with.

I'd just like to point out in case anyone spots it in the future, that for some reason Turok is invincible when i re enter the death marshes for the first and second area, which is why you see a shockwave attack from a Purlin not do any damage. Miraculously the invincibility disappears after going through the second portal to the Primagen key area, enabling me to do the suicide warp there. Another bizarre helpful aid to my run. It's probably to do with a glitch from the scripted invincibility you get after killing/succeeding at totems and bosses which is lingering for longer than it's supposed to. Much like how when you beat a totem and then reload the segment again and you'll have invincibility, and the only way to get rid of it is to kill yourself by jumping off a ledge.
To be honest it made hardly any difference as the Primagen key area was one of the biggest pain in the ass and the gunners there all too often kill me too early before I have time to collect the Primagen key, regardless of health. Again this was just another lucky segment.

Thanks guys ! glad you liked it. The thing with the suicide runs was simply practice paying off in allowing me to find a method for staying alive during the embryo killing, circling the embryo while flaming it is very effective at drastically minimizing any hits taken from the spawning Manitids. On the other hand if I somehow got to the embryo with a bit more health than required, I would have stood still while flaming to drain my health and hope that the suicide would happen immediately after killing the embryo. Of course 95% of the attempts didn't go according to plan, so what you see here is each segment being a very lucky one as well as being a totally planned strategy.

This level to me particularly, stands out as being one to go through a lot debate if one was to attempt the game/level single segmented. There's just so much here I wouldn't recommend on a single segment run. In fact I quite like the idea of optimizing a SS run just to see what things could be feasibly attempted and what perhaps shouldn't be. Certainly I wouldn't bother with the damage boosts (except the Primagen key ones of course) just because the Mantids are too unreliable and the gains are minimal. The first cave door key in level four gotten by the overhead item trick is another that I would have to debate myself with.

I'd just like to point out in case anyone spots it in the future, that for some reason Turok is invincible when i re enter the death marshes for the first and second area, which is why you see a shockwave attack from a Purlin not do any damage. Miraculously the invincibility disappears after going through the second portal to the Primagen key area, enabling me to do the suicide warp there. Another bizarre helpful aid to my run. It's probably to do with a glitch from the scripted invincibility you get after killing/succeeding at totems and bosses which is lingering for longer than it's supposed to. Much like how when you beat a totem and then reload the segment again and you'll have invincibility, and the only way to get rid of it is to kill yourself by jumping off a ledge. 
To be honest it made hardly any difference as the Primagen key area was one of the biggest pain in the ass and the gunners there all too often kill me too early before I have time to collect the Primagen key, regardless of health. Again this was just another lucky segment.

Squeebles

2012-03-19 11:40:54 am

Very good then, I look forward to seeing your work on the last level too ^U^

phazon

2012-03-19 01:48:02 pm

As I was watching, I could imagine that each seg must have been very luck-based and time-consuming, looks like I was right :P. Seems worth it though, since the run was so good.

Looking forward to seeing the lightship. Hopefully it won't take as long as the hives lol.

Gigan

2012-03-19 07:12:11 pm

Lol, yeah sorry about that. It took that long because another game to speed run started to pique my interest at the end of last year and beginning, which hasn't actually made any progress in itself actually due to recording difficulties. So at the time I invested much less time to Turok whenever I stayed over my friends house, which is where all the recording for this game up till the Hive took place. This, laziness and an unwillingness to get stuck into the inevitable ass kicking from the Hive are the reason. Now I'm able to record at home I'm able to give it plenty more time and record on a regular basis. I'm already optimizing the first segment of the lightship :P.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-21 08:28:48 pm

2012-03-21 08:14:37 pm

Alright I found an excellent little time saver which involves not having to do two trips to get the two ion capacitors located together on a platform in that biggish room with the two patrolling Biobots. The trick utilizes the platform glitch (I just new it would come in useful !) where standing under platforms that move, you can repeatedly press jump in a fairly fast rhythm to gain as much height as possible until the platform is beneath your feet. So in this particular room it's that large rectangular platform that sends you up to the upper floor with the circular arranged computers. From underneath, do a little run and jump under the last part (the bit which actually doesn't move at all ironically, and it still works) while in the air and still barely under the platform, do another jump and you can make it onto the platform with the ion capacitors. You need to be strafing I'm fairly certain as well. This should save something like 5 - 8 seconds. It would be a bit more if there was no little setup required though I'll keep optimizing to see if it can be executed really fast, while also looking for other stuff.

edit: Done some more testing and yep you can save even more time. You can actually get back up to the walkway from the ion capacitors platform. You have to strafe jump back to the ledge where you got the glitch jump from, as soon as you touch the edge of it it in mid air, you can perform a glitch jump to get on top of it. Haha, this means there is no need to take the staircase round the back at all, so no more trips round. In total done like this saves about 15 - 20 seconds over the standard double trip.

Alright I found an excellent little time saver which involves not having to do two trips to get the two ion capacitors located together on a platform in that biggish room with the two patrolling Biobots. The trick utilizes the platform glitch (I just new it would come in useful !) where standing under platforms that move, you can repeatedly press jump in a fairly fast rhythm to gain as much height as possible until the platform is beneath your feet. So in this particular room it's that large rectangular platform that sends you up to the upper floor with the circular arranged computers. From underneath, do a little run and jump under the last part (the bit which actually doesn't move at all ironically, and it still works) while in the air and still barely under the platform, do another jump and you can make it onto the platform with the ion capacitors. You need to be strafing I'm fairly certain as well. This should save something like 5 - 8 seconds. It would be a bit more if there was no little setup required though I'll keep optimizing to see if it can be executed really fast, while also looking for other stuff.

edit: Done some more testing and yep you can save even more time. You can actually get back up to the walkway from the ion capacitors platform. You have to strafe jump back to the ledge where you got the glitch jump from, as soon as you touch the edge of it it in mid air, you can perform a glitch jump to get on top of it. Haha, this means there is no need to take the staircase round the back at all, so no more trips round. In total done like this saves about 15 - 20 seconds over the standard double trip.

Squeebles

2012-03-22 07:25:06 am

Man, even knowing the place you're talking about I'll have to see it to understand it ^o^; All the more reason to look forward to this part I'd say ^U^

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-31 10:08:52 am

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-31 10:08:43 am

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-31 10:08:24 am

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-30 07:21:00 pm

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-03-30 07:19:04 pm

2012-03-30 07:15:40 pm

Just a really cool little thing I found out which will save some valuable seconds, although it's definitely something I'd only do in this kind of run due to more risk factor.
At the force field switch Eye of truth boost, it's actually possible to get over there without a boost from the wheel bot. I realized early on that when you step on the talisman pad and approach the edge, Turok will peer over the edge as if going down a slope (he doesn't do it on normal 90 degree edges) Which can only mean the talisman pad has a degree of angle in its shape making Turok treat it as a mini slope. So I realized that all those slope jumps I've done prior should work here as well, and alas it does; albeit with nasty accuracy required to hit the "slope" part of the talisman pad. So anyway no more waiting for the wheel bot to make it's slow approach !.
You do however still need fan boost speed which does make it somewhat harder than if it was normal speed, which is fine with me anyway because without it it would be a slower segment. It's easier to do if you don't strafe jump but do a regular jump onto the pad for more visual accuracy.
Luckily this probably wouldn't work on the Hive P-key damage boost since the gap between the pad and the bridge is most likely the same and would also need water/fan boost speed, of which there isn't any in that particular area.

Edit: I also finally managed to test the death warp in this area for collecting the ion capacitor and avoiding the backtrack and thankfully it does appear to be faster by around 3 - 5 seconds. What made me think it would be difficult to test before, was I assumed I had to do the Eye of truth jump as well, but actually thinking about it logically, the eye jump doesn't need to be done at all for testing this route idea, as it's always done in the same way (with fan speed) just at a different time. So for the test, all I had to do was have one route go to the portal, activate it, step in, step back in, collect ion capacitor, die and warp back, step in portal and save it; While the other route was collect ion capacitor with fan speed and do the whole air duct trip round and get to the portal. This was the slower one.

Just a really cool little thing I found out which will save some valuable seconds, although it's definitely something I'd only do in this kind of run due to more risk factor.
At the force field switch Eye of truth boost, it's actually possible to get over there without a boost from the wheel bot. I realized early on that when you step on the talisman pad and approach the edge, Turok will peer over the edge as if going down a slope (he doesn't do it on normal 90 degree edges) Which can only mean the talisman pad has a degree of angle in its shape making Turok treat it as a mini slope. So I realized that all those slope jumps I've done prior should work here as well, and alas it does;  albeit with nasty accuracy required to hit the "slope" part of the talisman pad. So anyway no more waiting for the wheel bot to make it's slow approach !. 
You do however still need fan boost speed which does make it somewhat harder than if it was normal speed, which is fine with me anyway because without it it would be a slower segment. It's easier to do if you don't strafe jump but do a regular jump onto the pad for more visual accuracy.
Luckily this probably wouldn't work on the Hive P-key damage boost since the gap between the pad and the bridge is most likely the same and would also need water/fan boost speed, of which there isn't any in that particular area.

Edit: I also finally managed to test the death warp in this area for collecting the ion capacitor and avoiding the backtrack and thankfully it does appear to be faster by around 3 - 5 seconds. What made me think it would be difficult to test before, was I assumed I had to do the Eye of truth jump as well, but actually thinking about it logically, the eye jump doesn't need to be done at all for testing this route idea, as it's always done in the same way (with fan speed) just at a different time. So for the test, all I had to do was have one route go to the portal, activate it, step in, step back in, collect ion capacitor, die and warp back, step in portal and save it; While the other route was collect ion capacitor with fan speed and do the whole air duct trip round and get to the portal. This was the slower one.

Squeebles

2012-04-02 03:50:57 pm

Ah, also fascinating stuff. You certainly are thorough in your measurements- Which reminds me of something I've wondered regarding the route planning; Have you ever measured the exact difference in time between normal swimming in the Hive vs. torpedo launcher swimming? I think that difference is exactly what we should be measuring when deciding if it's more efficient to go to the Hive first or the Lair of the Blind Ones. I strongly believe that the difference in water travel speed makes it at least slightly more valuable to go that route vs. the other way.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-04-03 02:09:53 pm

2012-04-03 02:02:32 pm

Ok I decided to give this test a whirl once and fall all; It's pretty darn accurate too; The results however startled me a little. They are as follows:

Level 5 last, backtracking to level 4 to get the P-key takes at least 40 seconds. I started this portion of the test at the hub and walking to level the 4 portal, and then all the way up to the boulder near the talisman pad. In the test you don't include the little corner past the boulder to the whispers talisman itself because that is done anyway on the P-key collection regardless of your level order. Next portion of the test starts at the big area with the dinosaur skeleton down below. You actually start this test near the foot of the slope heading back towards the entrance of the level. That's because if one was to continue the level having done the other level order, the path down below is near enough the same as the one above in that same line, if that makes sense. Finished timing when I reach the center of the Hub again.

Level 5 first (no torpedo launcher), is 11 - 12 seconds slower than using torpedo launcher. I'm shocked by this one. Every time I tested the places we travel underwater the torpedo launcher didn't come out as fast as I was expecting. For the standard swimming tests I do the double tap forward maneuver, not simply holding forward swimming. So the double tap swimming must be fairly fast in it's own right. This grand total really is ALL the places we swim in that level :o.

So we can conclude level 5 before 4 would be the fastest by at least 25 seconds. There is of course Sunfire pods to take into account for the route I've chosen which could speed up my P - key collection by some seconds, but not enough. I'm not bothered really, I've made dozens of little cock-ups in this run that have set me back a few seconds as it is. For example while trekking my way through level 4, I found I could have saved 2 seconds by jumping over to the other cliff side instead of dropping the stone obelisk with my Tek bow exploding the barrel, remember that place ? What's worse I think I remember actually doing that in the test run.
Also in level 5 at the last watered area exiting the master computer portal. I should have taken the right hand path through the tunnel avoiding the grey Mantids, as it proved itself to be 1 - 2 seconds faster than the left path that I chose. I chose that one out of safety so there would be no risk of getting stuck in front of enemies. I knew there wouldn't be much difference time wise between the two but testing it revealed it to be a bit slower.

Ok I decided to give this test a whirl once and fall all; It's pretty darn accurate too; The results however startled me a little. They are as follows:

Level 5 last, backtracking to level 4 to get the P-key takes at least 40 seconds. I started this portion of the test at the hub and walking to level the 4 portal, and then all the way up to the boulder near the talisman pad. In the test you don't include the little corner past the boulder to the whispers talisman itself because that is done anyway on the P-key collection regardless of your level order. Next portion of the test starts at the big area with the dinosaur skeleton down below. You actually start this test near the foot of the slope heading back towards the entrance of the level. That's because if one was to continue the level having done the other level order, the path down below is near enough the same as the one above in that same line, if that makes sense. Finished timing when I reach the center of the Hub again.

Level 5 first (no torpedo launcher), is 11 - 12 seconds slower than using torpedo launcher. I'm shocked by this one. Every time I tested the places we travel underwater the torpedo launcher didn't come out as fast as I was expecting. For the standard swimming tests I do the double tap forward maneuver, not simply holding forward swimming. So the double tap swimming must be fairly fast in it's own right. This grand total really is ALL the places we swim in that level :o.

So we can conclude level 5 before 4 would be the fastest by at least 25 seconds. There is of course Sunfire pods to take into account for the route I've chosen which could speed up my P - key collection by some seconds, but not enough. I'm not bothered really, I've made dozens of little cock-ups in this run that have set me back a few seconds as it is. For example while trekking my way through level 4, I found I could have saved 2 seconds by jumping over to the other cliff side instead of dropping the stone obelisk with my Tek bow exploding the barrel, remember that place ? What's worse I think I remember actually doing that in the test run.
Also in level 5 at the last watered area exiting the master computer portal. I should have taken the right hand path through the tunnel avoiding the grey Mantids, as it proved itself to be 1 - 2 seconds faster than the left path that I chose. I chose that one out of safety so there would be no risk of getting stuck in front of enemies. I knew there wouldn't be much difference time wise between the two but testing it revealed it to be a bit slower.

Squeebles

2012-04-04 05:17:24 am

Woah.. It just seems so hard to believe that the Torpedo Launcher could make so little of a difference @.@... Thank you for finding the definitive answer to that once and for all, and I apologize for being so stubborn about what choices I thought were most effective- I imagine a lot of it has to do with controlling risk which doesn't seem to be such an issue for the PC. In any case I look forward to seeing the rest of your run and whichever games you do in the future too ^u^

Veritate

2012-04-04 06:00:38 am

You probably don't know this, but the bigger and smaller discoveries throughout this thread still continue to amaze me. I'd say don't worry about missed optimizations, so far the run already destroys the old strategies by a good margin. I hope someday there will be a single-segment (or segmented console) run of this game that includes all the things you / we found out in the course of the making of this run. By the way, do you still think sub-2 hours is possible? It wouldn't be a bad thing if not, but I've got to admit, it would look a lot cooler if it comes out like that.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can help you much with level 6… My strategy for the Mother boss would be Firestorm for the first and second phase and Flamethrower for the final one, but there probably are faster methods.

giganotabehemoth87

2012-04-04 10:12:12 am

Squeebles - that's ok man. I mean I kind of had a hunch it was slower anyway but still took the route (can't actually think why I did lol, probably just to be different from the N64 run on the site)

Veritate - sub 2 hours is really hard to tell at this point, and I mean REALLY. It's going to come down to a matter of seconds I'm sure.
Mother boss - Yeah there's some green shells shredder glitching which I'm certain can be done on the Mother IIRC. The shells linger inside her arms and head doing multiple damage and ending the phases crazy quick. It's not gonna be a very glamorous battle with weapons but speed really is of the up most importance now.

Right now I've only just completed segment 2 of the lightship which had the eye of truth jump/death warp segment. Still a long way to go Tongue

Veritate

Edit history:

Veritate: 2012-04-06 07:44:21 am

Veritate: 2012-04-06 07:43:39 am

2012-04-06 07:26:36 am

Ah, okay! The green Shredder shells were already used in marshmallow's old run, though I don't think that glitch was known back then. I mentioned the Firestorm cannon because hitting a moving enemy is a lot easier with it compared to the alternatives, but you could argue this advantage is negligible here because a PC mouse makes aiming a lot easier in the first place.

I hope the "ion capacitor found" doesn't drive you insane.

giganotabehemoth87

2012-04-28 07:27:55 pm

Last cool little thing I found, which I may have mentioned ages ago but I can't remember.

The route you take near the end to to collect red and blue crystals matters a lot. After some testing you can either do the intended way which is collect the second assembly plant blue crystals early after destroying the colorful console which opens it's hatch. Then proceed to the next section and replace the laser grid red crystals with the blue ones. Do the Generator and then do the force field switch underwater, come back and get a water boost, do the third assembly plant, and rush back to the portal for the second assembly plant. This, believe it or not is 15 odd seconds SLOWER than this next route:

Destroy the colorful console but ignore the assembly plant for now and proceed onward to the next section, take the red crystals from the laser grid and go to the third assembly plant, come back to the laser grid, replace crystals, do the generator, do the force field switch, now get killed by the armored trooper and it will warp you right back to second assembly plant section. Of course it's better if the trooper kills you as fast as possible but luckily it's quite common for it to do a quick succession of that rapid beam attack, which is deadly as hell on PC.

In fairness for the intended path you can actually do a similar approach and deliberately die by a turret along the corridor after doing the third assembly plant to be warped back as well. But it's still many seconds slower over the other route for sure.

Last cool little thing I found, which I may have mentioned ages ago but I can't remember.

The route you take near the end to to collect red and blue crystals matters a lot. After some testing you can either do the intended way which is collect the second assembly plant blue crystals early after destroying the colorful console which opens it's hatch. Then proceed to the next section and replace the laser grid red crystals with the blue ones. Do the Generator and then do the force field switch underwater, come back and get a water boost, do the third assembly plant, and rush back to the portal for the second assembly plant. This, believe it or not is 15 odd seconds SLOWER than this next route:

Destroy the colorful console but ignore the assembly plant for now and proceed onward to the next section, take the red crystals from the laser grid and go to the third assembly plant, come back to the laser grid, replace crystals, do the generator, do the force field switch, now get killed by the armored trooper and it will warp you right back to second assembly plant section. Of course it's better if the trooper kills you as fast as possible but luckily it's quite common for it to do a quick succession of that rapid beam attack, which is deadly as hell on PC.

In fairness for the intended path you can actually do a similar approach and deliberately die by a turret along the corridor after doing the third assembly plant to be warped back as well. But it's still many seconds slower over the other route for sure.

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-04-29 09:41:36 am

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-04-29 09:13:48 am

2012-04-29 08:44:33 am

Ok something weird is happening. Not sure if it's normal Squeebles. The colorful computer, when destroyed says it opens the hatch. But when I check the mission objectives, it says it also completes that assembly plant as well, which would mean i don't have to come back at all to finish this one off, which would alter the strategy I wrote above.

Does destroying the computer complete that assembly plant too?

[edit] yeah sorry, Adon says assembly plant destroyed, and it also says this on the screen, along with "door open". I guess it's normal.
Well in that case the route thing above is nonsense. But still I will test something regarding the order in which to do this last part. I'll get back to you on it.

[edit 2] Ok the results are that my route idea above isn't completely ruled out but does have small difference. Death warping from the force field switch is about 3 seconds slower than returning to the laser grid with water boost speed.
So starting from destroying the console, head straight on, take the red crystals from the laser grid, go to the third assembly plant, replace crystals, return to laser grid, put in the blue crystals, do generator, do the force field switch, return and water boost out the water and head to the portal exit. This is the fastest way.

Ok something weird is happening. Not sure if it's normal Squeebles. The colorful computer, when destroyed says it opens the hatch. But when I check the mission objectives, it says it also completes that assembly plant as well, which would mean i don't have to come back at all to finish this one off, which would alter the strategy I wrote above.

Does destroying the computer complete that assembly plant too?

[edit] yeah sorry, Adon says assembly plant destroyed, and it also says this on the screen, along with "door open". I guess it's normal. 
Well in that case the route thing above is nonsense. But still I will test something regarding the order in which to do this last part. I'll get back to you on it.

[edit 2] Ok the results are that my route idea above isn't completely ruled out but does have small difference. Death warping from the force field switch is about 3 seconds slower than returning to the laser grid with water boost speed.
So starting from destroying the console, head straight on, take the red crystals from the laser grid, go to the third assembly plant, replace crystals, return to laser grid, put in the blue crystals, do generator, do the force field switch, return and water boost out the water and head to the portal exit. This is the fastest way.

Squeebles

2012-05-02 10:16:49 am

Hm, I'm having a hard time visualizing all of this so I'll hopefully gain a better understanding when I see it in action- In any event thank you for pulling together all of this routing information, this is probably the only place that it's even being researched ^.^

giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

giganotabehemoth87: 2012-05-02 10:54:28 am

2012-05-02 10:51:25 am

hehe, no problem. The route choice will all be clear when you see it.

I can say with confidence the lightship is probably the most tightly optimized level in the run. Every segment has been near flawless. Oh yeah and when you said it's shorter than the Hive, I started to feel it was going to be about the same as the Hive when I was half way through it, but all of a sudden the end was near. It has in fact only taken me 14 minutes to do this level. I'm now saved before the mother Boss. We're close now gentleman thumbsup

Also, word of warning: My submission text is f**king huge Shocked