Try me: Cool Stream, Bro (AmarecTV alternative?)

Edit history:

kraln: 2015-05-21 05:06:00 pm

kraln: 2015-05-16 08:16:49 pm

2015-05-16 05:16:48 pm

I was watching PJ's stream, and he had suddenly a lot of problems with AmarecTV.
I figured I could throw something together quickly that can record audio/video from inputs (and preview it simultaneously).

So I did.

Cool story, bro.

You can download it here, for now: http://www.kraln.com/coolstreambro.zip

It's *really* rough, but the essentials are there. Here's what I already know:

* You'll need the .NET framework 4.5 ( get it here http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=245484 )
* If you try to write to a file where you don't have permission, it will fail in ugly ways (try your documents folder)
* It doesn't have a proper file picker dialog
* It doesn't remember any of your settings
* Some encoders are 32-bit only. Use the x86 if you're missing encoders or property pages break.
* It probably won't crash?

What I don't know:

* Is this useful?
* Should I work on it more?

Let me know coolstreambro@kraln.com

--
Edit:

Okay, it seems like this might have merit. I have cleaned up the code and posted it at https://github.com/kraln/coolstreambro

I will be fixing some crossbar issues (audio/video from some capture cards that don't give audio sources), then do rebroadcasting ala amarectv.

Thread title:

I was watching PJ's stream, and he had suddenly a lot of problems with AmarecTV.
I figured I could throw something together quickly that can record audio/video from inputs (and preview it simultaneously).

So I did.

Cool story, bro.

You can download it here, for now: http://www.kraln.com/coolstreambro.zip

It's *really* rough, but the essentials are there. Here's what I already know:

* You'll need the .NET framework 4.5 ( get it here http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=245484 )
* If you try to write to a file where you don't have permission, it will fail in ugly ways (try your documents folder)
* It doesn't have a proper file picker dialog
* It doesn't remember any of your settings
* Some encoders are 32-bit only. Use the x86 if you're missing encoders or property pages break.
* It probably won't crash?

What I don't know:

* Is this useful?
* Should I work on it more?

Let me know coolstreambro@kraln.com

--
Edit:

Okay, it seems like this might have merit. I have cleaned up the code and posted it at https://github.com/kraln/coolstreambro

I will be fixing some crossbar issues (audio/video from some capture cards that don't give audio sources), then do rebroadcasting ala amarectv.

TheThrillness

2015-05-17 03:54:41 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Interesting attempt. Some stuff I noticed.

1. It picks up the video source of my AVerMedia but it won't pick up the audio source for the card.
2. Might just be me but sometimes the preview doesn't work and I need to reselect the res and fps.
3. Some codecs don't work and spit an error (Lagarth and x264vfw).
4. Setting fps doesn't seem to work. I set fps to 59.94 and the captured file was still 60.00.

Not saying undertaking something like this is a bad idea because it's not. The problem is, you have to be dedicated. AmaRecTV errors are usually just user error but even after like 6 years of development, it still has some bugs here and there. You'll spend so much time fixing bugs that you'll never actually implement new features.

kraln

2015-05-17 08:50:55 am

Quote from TheThrillness:

1. It picks up the video source of my AVerMedia but it won't pick up the audio source for the card.

Audio/Video Crossbar stuff is probably the culprit here. I'll see if I can't figure it out (if there's continued interest)--I have some devices here like that I can try with.

Quote from TheThrillness:

2. Might just be me but sometimes the preview doesn't work and I need to reselect the res and fps.

Definitely not just you. The whole thing is pretty raw/rough at the moment, it hasn't been polished for usability quite yet

Quote from TheThrillness:

3. Some codecs don't work and spit an error (Lagarth and x264vfw).

Which error you're getting would be interesting--I specifically tested with x264vfw Smiley

Quote from TheThrillness:

4. Setting fps doesn't seem to work. I set fps to 59.94 and the captured file was still 60.00.

The FPS is a 'suggestion', certain capture drivers like them better than others. I'll see if I can't make it more forceful...

Quote from TheThrillness:

Not saying undertaking something like this is a bad idea because it's not. The problem is, you have to be dedicated. AmaRecTV errors are usually just user error but even after like 6 years of development, it still has some bugs here and there. You'll spend so much time fixing bugs that you'll never actually implement new features.

I guess my goal is to make something basic and useful, not neccesarily the most feature-laden program. If there is sufficient interest and I choose to proceed, it'll be developed open source (github, etc.)

Currently, I want to gauge 1) if it is worth the time investment from me, and 2) what the minimum exciting feature set could be. (1) is determined by interest from the community, and (2) is derived entirely on feedback from the community.

Thanks for giving it a shot! Smiley

[quote="TheThrillness"]
1. It picks up the video source of my AVerMedia but it won't pick up the audio source for the card.
[/quote]
Audio/Video Crossbar stuff is probably the culprit here. I'll see if I can't figure it out (if there's continued interest)--I have some devices here like that I can try with.
[quote="TheThrillness"]
2. Might just be me but sometimes the preview doesn't work and I need to reselect the res and fps.
[/quote]
Definitely not just you. The whole thing is pretty raw/rough at the moment, it hasn't been polished for usability quite yet
[quote="TheThrillness"]
3. Some codecs don't work and spit an error (Lagarth and x264vfw).
[/quote]
Which error you're getting would be interesting--I specifically tested with x264vfw :)
[quote="TheThrillness"]
4. Setting fps doesn't seem to work. I set fps to 59.94 and the captured file was still 60.00.
[/quote]
The FPS is a 'suggestion', certain capture drivers like them better than others. I'll see if I can't make it more forceful...

[quote="TheThrillness"]
Not saying undertaking something like this is a bad idea because it's not. The problem is, you have to be dedicated. AmaRecTV errors are usually just user error but even after like 6 years of development, it still has some bugs here and there. You'll spend so much time fixing bugs that you'll never actually implement new features.
[/quote]

I guess my goal is to make something basic and useful, not neccesarily the most feature-laden program. If there is sufficient interest and I choose to proceed, it'll be developed open source (github, etc.)

Currently, I want to gauge 1) if it is worth the time investment from me, and 2) what the minimum exciting feature set could be. (1) is determined by interest from the community, and (2) is derived entirely on feedback from the community.

Thanks for giving it a shot! :)

Omnigamer

2015-05-17 09:26:39 am

All the things

I haven't tried it yet, but I will say that there's definitely interest around the community for an AmaRec alternative. I haven't had any major issues with the latest iterations of AmaRec, but the spontaneous freezes and other crashes that people report are enough to lower confidence in the program as a whole. Earlier versions were somewhat unstable for me though, so I'm always a bit suspicious of how it might perform.

The main missing feature from other recording software is the ability to something like AmaRec's Live functionality, which rebroadcasts the video stream locally so you can record and use it in a streaming program simultaneously. Capturing a screen preview is the alternative that a lot of people go with, but it usually has some other downsides like more resource usage and just flat needing more screen real estate. A lot of AmaRec's current other features, such as active processing for deinterlacing and line-doubling are niceties, but not entirely necessary for the majority of the community.

That said, have you given any thought to open-sourcing the code? Things can probably pick up with a few more heads working on it.

I haven't tried it yet, but I will say that there's definitely interest around the community for an AmaRec alternative. I haven't had any major issues with the latest iterations of AmaRec, but the spontaneous freezes and other crashes that people report are enough to lower confidence in the program as a whole. Earlier versions were somewhat unstable for me though, so I'm always a bit suspicious of how it might perform.

The main missing feature from other recording software is the ability to something like AmaRec's Live functionality, which rebroadcasts the video stream locally so you can record and use it in a streaming program simultaneously. Capturing a screen preview is the alternative that a lot of people go with, but it usually has some other downsides like more resource usage and just flat needing more screen real estate. A lot of AmaRec's current other features, such as active processing for deinterlacing and line-doubling are niceties, but not entirely necessary for the majority of the community.

That said, have you given any thought to open-sourcing the code? Things can probably pick up with a few more heads working on it.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2015-05-17 09:57:21 am

TheThrillness: 2015-05-17 09:53:42 am

2015-05-17 09:53:13 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Okay had a rethink about this.

We should definitely get a program like this at a usable level. We need a program where we can actually actively communicate with the developers in the same language to iron out bugs and whatever else. Who cares if it takes years, we'll be using it forever. Smiley

Let me know if you ever need bug testing/other help and I'll be happy to pitch in.

Here's the x264vfw error: http://i.imgur.com/BqmYUZD.png

Edit: Doesn't seem to be x264vfw related. Lagarith gives me the same error.

Planned feature to add/question: What happens if a card has 2/3 colorspaces? e.g. RGB/YUY2 and YV12?

PJ

2015-05-17 10:44:02 am

Is PJ

I'm just throwing out my support for a project like this. I am probably Amarec's most adamant opponent, so that's not too surprising, but I am pretty desperate for a program that can capture without crashing constantly. I know very very little about actual video encoding though, so I'll stay out of that discussion. Hopefully this project can get some support from more people who know what they're talking about so it can develop towards replacing Amarec.

Thanks so much for the undertaking, kraln!

kraln

2015-05-17 04:44:07 pm

Quote from Omnigamer:

The main missing feature from other recording software is the ability to something like AmaRec's Live functionality, which rebroadcasts the video stream locally so you can record and use it in a streaming program simultaneously.

This is my very short term goal, to support this feature.

Quote from Omnigamer:

That said, have you given any thought to open-sourcing the code?

As I posted above, if it picks up enough attention to become a project, it will be open source from day one. (for those who are curious, it's being developed in C#)

Lag.Com

2015-05-18 02:13:59 am

sda loyalist

Good work - SDA has been crying out for a 'get streaming and recording' kit for a while now. This could do the trick.

Slaughterhouserock

2015-05-18 02:47:46 am

I'm all for an alternative, even though I normally have no issues with amarec(it's crashed once for me so far). Having options is always a good thing.

pld

Edit history:

pld: 2015-05-18 08:58:56 am

pld: 2015-05-18 08:55:28 am

2015-05-18 03:07:33 am

OneHans

Well since I hate Amarec from the bottom of my heart (the deinterlacing is horrible plus it won't work properly on my PC and especially not in combination with the GV-USB2) I am totally backing this project.

EDIT:

I have tested it a bit but it seems like the program does not work properly with my GV-USB2 (yet). When I click on "enable preview" video is displayed in black and white and I cannot get it displayed in color. Also can you add 29.97 and 59.94 as FPS options? The GV-USB2 is very specific about the FPS and usually does not work with other values. I have to say that I like the minimalistic layout, clean and simple. Looks very promising and if I get it to work properly with my capture card and the results are good, you will get a hug Smiley

DJS

Edit history:

DJS: 2015-05-18 09:08:48 am

2015-05-18 09:06:51 am

torch slug since 2006

I'm absolutely supporting this. For being something that you "threw together quickly" I am really impressed. Personally I've never had any problems with Amarec, but it's always nice to have alternatives. I was able to get it set up really fast so I'm really impressed so far and looking forward to future updates.

presjpolk

2015-05-18 12:27:35 pm

HELLO!

I hate Amarec, and am excited to hear about this. Get your code on github or something, man. Smiley

MLSTRM

2015-05-18 01:20:10 pm

You can never run enough games

While I don't have any issues with amarec, Alternatives are always welcome! I'll be very interested in seeing where this goes.

philosoraptor42

2015-05-18 07:33:57 pm

Dapper as fuck.

Huh, being I stream almost exclusively retro stuff I've just been using VirtualDub and it's never crashed or anything on me. When I do stream HD it's always casual so I don't generally locally record, but the little I've used Amarec for that I wasn't a huge fan. Nice to see an alternative arise.

btrim

2015-05-19 10:15:55 am

I haven't looked at your prototype yet but it got me thinking.

In speedrunning we have a niche use-case where we want to save the output of one source that we often output to our streams, but we want it recorded unfiltered.

I started thinking of this as "how would you replace amarec?" and proceeded to outline what such a replacement would need to do. But don't we have all this code available in the form of OBS?

1. OBS supports most capture cards.
2. OBS Allows you to specify resolution and framerate.
3. OBS has a preview window (and if done without filtering, could have less lag -- this is a niche within a niche where playing via the preview window is required).
4. OBS allows you to record to a file (would need options for other codecs).
5. OBS can handle multiple audio inputs (better in obs-studio). (use-case: Game audio-> track 1, Mic -> track 2, mixed -> track 3).
6. OBS allows you to compose multiple sources into a stream and share it on twitch, hitbox, etc.

So, instead of creating more code to read from capture cards for the sole purpose of saving a raw file, what if we used (lib)OBS instead? You could create a standalone amarec replacement as a shim between your card and xsplit as well.

I'm not overly familiar with the OBS codebase nor too knowledgeable about video processing, but I'd be willing to help try to figure out this problem.

I haven't looked at your prototype yet but it got me thinking.

In speedrunning we have a niche use-case where we want to save the output of one source that we often output to our streams, but we want it recorded unfiltered.
 
I started thinking of this as "how would you replace amarec?" and proceeded to outline what such a replacement would need to do.  But don't we have all this code available in the form of OBS?
 
1. OBS supports most capture cards.
2. OBS Allows you to specify resolution and framerate.
3. OBS has a preview window (and if done without filtering, could have less lag -- this is a niche within a niche where playing via the preview window is required).
4. OBS allows you to record to a file (would need options for other codecs).
5. OBS can handle multiple audio inputs (better in obs-studio). (use-case: Game audio-> track 1, Mic -> track 2, mixed -> track 3).
6. OBS allows you to compose multiple sources into a stream and share it on twitch, hitbox, etc.
 
So, instead of creating more code to read from capture cards for the sole purpose of saving a raw file, what if we used (lib)OBS instead?  You could create a standalone amarec replacement as a shim between your card and xsplit as well.
 
I'm not overly familiar with the OBS codebase nor too knowledgeable about video processing, but I'd be willing to help try to figure out this problem.

Mishrak

2015-05-19 01:03:25 pm

Quote from pld:

Well since I hate Amarec from the bottom of my heart (the deinterlacing is horrible plus it won't work properly on my PC and especially not in combination with the GV-USB2) I am totally backing this project.

EDIT:

I have tested it a bit but it seems like the program does not work properly with my GV-USB2 (yet). When I click on "enable preview" video is displayed in black and white and I cannot get it displayed in color. Also can you add 29.97 and 59.94 as FPS options? The GV-USB2 is very specific about the FPS and usually does not work with other values. I have to say that I like the minimalistic layout, clean and simple. Looks very promising and if I get it to work properly with my capture card and the results are good, you will get a hug Smiley

I ran Amarec just fine with my GV-USB2 and have generally had almost zero issues with Amarec as a whole. As Omni stated earlier, the spontaneous freezes and crashes ARE a cause for concern/lack of confidence, and I have had it happen a handful of times while doing runs. So an alternative that's easy to use and actively being developed would be most excellent.

[quote="pld"]Well since I hate Amarec from the bottom of my heart (the deinterlacing is horrible plus it won't work properly on my PC and especially not in combination with the GV-USB2) I am totally backing this project.

EDIT:

I have tested it a bit but it seems like the program does not work properly with my GV-USB2 (yet). When I click on "enable preview" video is displayed in black and white and I cannot get it displayed in color. Also can you add 29.97 and 59.94 as FPS options? The GV-USB2 is very specific about the FPS and usually does not work with other values. I have to say that I like the minimalistic layout, clean and simple. Looks very promising and if I get it to work properly with my capture card and the results are good, you will get a hug :) [/quote]

I ran Amarec just fine with my GV-USB2 and have generally had almost zero issues with Amarec as a whole.  As Omni stated earlier, the spontaneous freezes and crashes ARE a cause for concern/lack of confidence, and I have had it happen a handful of times while doing runs.  So an alternative that's easy to use and actively being developed would be most excellent.

kraln

2015-05-21 01:59:16 pm

Alrighty, I've seen enough. I'm going to clean up what I've done, post the code on GitHub, and come up with a future roadmap. Here's the Github link: https://github.com/kraln/coolstreambro

presjpolk

2015-05-21 02:17:58 pm

HELLO!

Thank you very much!

sk84uhlivin

2015-06-03 09:35:38 am

Any update on this? I would really love to see an optimal alternative for Amarec, as I know it's caused many of us issues in the past.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2015-06-03 10:12:28 am

2015-06-03 10:12:04 am

HELLO!

Well the github is up. He added the link to the OP. It's going to need developers to help finish it.

Ryker9

2015-08-25 07:05:03 pm

This "Throw Together" program is the best thing I've ever stumbled across, I'm 1000% backing this as I have a tonne of problems running Amarec with my EzCap, IT never works but CSB worked within 1 minute of me putting it on my computer Smiley

one question though is the a way to add deinterlacing to it so my N64 games don't look so choppy?