Roll Eyes
Lips Sealed
1 page
List results:
Search options:
Use \ before commas in usernames
Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Trilby: The Art of Theft () (pc) [100 %] [Single Segment]

Decision: Accept

Congratulations to 'Soulless'!
Thread title:  
Run Information

Trilby: The Art of Theft () (pc) [100 %] [Single Segment]

Verification Files

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). This is not a contest where the majority wins - I will judge each verification on its content. Please keep your verification brief unless you have a good reason otherwise.
I really have no soul.
I optimized my strategies to the point, where they can't be optimized anymore, and it's all about RNG in certain missions and spots. Also I could have saved like 6 second in the last heist, but I don't care, since that is a minor downside to the 2:05 improvement compared to the last run.

If this is not an accept, I might as well hang myself.
Yahtzee hasn't been dead at all: he's constantly making more episodes for Zero Punctuation and Judging by the Cover... and he's writing more books, and probably working on another game. I think he said he's picking up on an old idea briefly shown in the "miscellaneous" ego review.

The runner starts from a save file that takes him to the start of the run. This skips briefly displaying the non-timed intro, and a tutorial tip that shows up immediately before gaining control of the character. I think this is okay then since it's outside of timing.

I'm going to ask some questions mainly for future reference so we can establish where someone could save time if they wanted to try and improve on this:

4:19 - No rolling here?
5:34 - or here? I see you're doing ESC canceling of some dialogue. I can't see if it's actually saving time though: did you slightly fail at executing it? Again, this is for future reference.
9:02 - nice A.I. abuse!

In general, you seem to be rolling less in this run, especially when sugar rushed. Is there a particular reason for that? 11:06 is a good example. I swear I saw in my testing that it's still faster that way, by some small margin.

Well done! I think I saw better routing across several missions and the extra rushes were worked into places nicely. Lock luck/skill was probably slightly better too.

I really have no soul.
I know that now. He has also been featured on TotalBiscuit's Co-optional Podcast, and he has moved to USA as far as I'm concerned. But like I probably said in the first run (or was it at youtube? idk), I am not that guy who follows everything about him (Zero p. and what not). I just played the game at the day. So I have no clue about his books or other work he is doing right now.

Well I mean....I don't understand this part. Sort of. If this part was also in the timing, would it not be fine? It's a faster way of getting to the exact same spot as the New Game button does. Is that illegal? Like, I am not even loading a save, I am just getting to the loading screen and cancelling. If I did load a save, sure. Because that would take me right up, but this?

1. The sugar rush is a nightmare to control by itself, when you add rolling into it, it might very well not end good. This is what I have been experiencing: I use the rush, I use one roll, then my character refuses to roll sometimes. It could duck and get up again, or just continue running forward without rolling. I don't know if that is input lag or something different, but I would not want to screw up my routing and roll, or even actually expose myself by just walking into the camera's lens. It's safer this way.

2. Again, same thing. Though no camera this time, if the duck and get up happens, I sometimes panic. I don't like it. As for the ESC, I was trying to hit it just after I passed a certain point (at which the "cutscene" triggers), and of course, I thought I was past that point, only to notice that the game screwed me by 1 pixel. Literally ONE. Plus I was using rush, so this was REALLY UNFORTUNATE. If you get it perfectly, it saves even more time. Skipping by mashing ENTER is possible, but this is just a one-button skip. Just my unfortunateness (is that a word?).

3. Classic. Vintage even.

Just like I stated, it's a nightmare to control, maybe it's just because of the input lag (I did play on my older machine). If there was a guarantee no problems would happen to me, I would probably roll more. It's faster, obviously, but you can save like 0.7? second on regular rolls, this is much less (I think. I might be wrong, since both are sped up equally. But it seems to me like it's less than 0.7). So risking the biscuit for this little time, no-no. Without the input lags or whatever, maybe.

It was much easier, since I wasn't focusing on the game as much, thinking about failure and what not, because I was listening to some cool music instead. That probably helped. Relaxation.
Oh, so you're canceling the save loading? Most games don't have a trick like that, so there's probably no real rule about that then. Oftentimes though runners agree to do something slightly unorthodox to save some hassle at the start of each attempt. Still, in principle it's good to be aware whether something happens inside timing, because then it suddenly starts to matter more. Just bring anything that you're not sure about up in the right game thread beforehand and you should be fine.

1. Well that goes a long way towards explaining that then.
2. As I thought. Well bad luck (it's just called bad luck! :D).

Glad you found a method that worked for you! Good luck with Fighting Force and whatever you decide to run in the future!
I really have no soul.
Well done sir, a keen observation. Yes I am cancelling it. If I loaded one with 0 missions complete, I would be straight up on the highest floor in front of the desk.

I don't think that is breaking any regular non-written rules or anything. And I think it should be part of the timing, because I am the first single-segment speedrunner, and it's up to me, or at least should be. Plus this part contains a method that saves time. It's "different routing". I think it should totally be counted, it this is RTA (which it should be) and you are not using the game's broken timing.

It's not me who's unsure about stuff this time. I used it, It's valid, it should be part of the RTA timing, period.

Yup. And the second can call it bad luck, I call it BS, but it's probably the same. Sometimes slightly below fortunate.

You know, the game is kinda stressful, so I had to sit back and try to enjoy it, instead of hard-grinding. Eh................... I ran out of games I know how to play, so I might be done with the speedrunning as a whole. But there's only one sure thing, until someone beats me, I am never playing this particular one again. Worse than Dark Souls.
To provide a stable and reliable basis for competition, the site's own timer (IsraeliRD) decides on each game's timing ultimately, hearing the runners out if need be. It's a very simple method SDA goes by: from control over the player character, which in this case is AFTER you've skipped the first tutorial message, or indeed canceled loading a new game. (Leaves in the option of keeping opening cutscenes and not rushing through character creation etc.) - In a marathon run, you might indeed go from when you hit start because it's easier to sync like that.

To be very clear: you're NOT breaking any rules by doing what you do at the start, it just won't affect the end time (most likely). If you wish to know more about this, feel free to contact the timer by PM, but I don't know if it's worth it. How SDA times runs is stated in its rules.
I really have no soul.
I never heard of IsreaeliRD, and it's not about what programs decides on the time, it's about what is a part of it (talking about this thread).

Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand that. You gain control, the time starts, you lose control, the time ends. That's the default. But since there is no character creation in this one, or any of that stuff, there are only two possible outcomes for this game now. So:

A) Time starts when you hit the "Start" or "Load". This is what I have been going with, since I was skipping cutscenes after "Start", then I found out I can cancel a load which is faster. This is probably what it should be. I am fine with altering my youtube times to which the time stops when the last mission fades into the cutscene. Since I have also been counting some of that extra time in.

B) Time starts when you press ENTER in the care - choose the first heist. So you could change your outfit if you want to a one that doesn't affect the gameplay (no Lazy Sunday and DEFINITELY no Black Rain), purely for entertainment value/your pleasure. I am also fine with having this kind of timing. Again, time stops when the last mission fades into the cutscene. That's fine.

I have seen e. g. Crash Bandicoot: Warped runs, there, it is very clear, it uses those defaults. But for this game, the starting point is non-sensical. You have to go with one of the two I provided above, you can't go middle ground. I don't get that.

There are only few people who have played this game, and even less of them tried to speedrun it. For games like this, I see a problem. That being, people in charge don't know anything about those obscure games. And having THEM time the runs, instead of the runners themselves feels stupid. I didn't want to insult anyone. But for those games, why not just have the runners time their games, since they know their game in and out, say that HERE IS THE STARTING AND ENDING POINT, HERE IS THE TIME, YOU JUST VERIFY IT.

Nobody gets shafted by this. Except now, if someone who doesn't know anything is going to time it, the runner is more often than not going to be the shafted one. And I don't want that.
I actually watched both the old and the new submission. It's great to see the improvement and how the route and choices have developed. I can see from the discussion about these submissions that there is plenty to say about the route in more detail. However, as things stand, I'm not familiar enough with the game to say anything other than that there was nothing that stood out as questionable in my eyes. The execution is pretty clean throughout, with most of the time losses due to lock-picking. The lock-picking appears to be subject to pretty tricky game mechanics though, so I guess a few misses can be excused (while remaining a potential for further time saves). Overall a good watch and well worth an

Re timing. I think for a lot of people, the time is just a label for the speedrun. The exact definition of the start and end points aren't of that much interest (as long as it doesn't influence the choices done during the speedrun). That and the fact that having someone to ensure that timing is done in a somewhat "standardized" way across all games are the main reasons for SDA taking care of the timing (at least that's how I think the discussion went many years ago, when SDA started to accept speedruns). However, if you have suggestions for the frames of the start and end points of your run (assuming they're based on "player control"), by all means share them either here or in the submission thread. That will be helpful and speed up the step after the run has been accepted.
Edit history:
Soulless: 2016-10-10 12:34:53 pm
I really have no soul.
There is a lot to say, probably too much for such an obscure game. I can't possibly fathom writing all of it down for like 5 people that know this game. I worked on a script for Fighting Force tutorial and what not, but this one is out.

The lockpicks...... you need to have great reflexes, and even then, they are random. Your tool might get stuck in one place no matter how long you press a button, or it could just fly through. It's different every single time. I mean, it's logical from a burglar sense, but randomness in speedruns is not exactly my cup of coffee. Even if I don't speedrun more than 2 games.

And like you said, there is room for improvement (Someone....else' know. Not mine.)

Well I mean the starting and ending points are part of MY interests, it's a minor thing, I agree, but there is a difference between, e. g., having a sub 20 run or an over 20 run. And that kind of depends in my book.

It looks I am not going to get different than default timing methods in here, so let me at least clarify this one, based on the player control.

START: There are two possible ways.
1. You press "New" in the main menu, you skip the screen with the backstory, then you get to the game itself, but first, you are given the option to go through the tutorial. The moment you skip it (the message on the top dismisses) by pressing the ESC button, THAT is the moment the timer should start.
2. You press "Load" in the main menu, you are taken right into the game - to the load screen. The moment you dismiss it (or rather CANCEL THE LOAD, so there is no misunderstanding, clarifying that I am not cheating) by pressing ESC, THAT is the moment the timer should start. This is what I went with in this run.

The SDA time will be the same no matter which one you use, but since I was doing different timing when playing/posting on youtube, that made a difference.

The end is pretty clear, in the final heist, the timer should stop THE MOMENT the game starts fading into white (the explosion). That is when you lose control and you can let the cutscene roll if you want, and then you are presented with the result of your heists.
Decision posted.