Torchlight (Planning)

2010-03-01 06:33:38 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

Quote from Rane:

Hey bimanc,

I actually mentioned the spell stacking on page 3. :-)
Tough the only time I found two Haste spells they were rank 1 and 2, but still, it made a noticable difference. 4 and 5 might be harsh, I don´t even want to think about something crazy like 4, 5 and 6. :-) (I know it won´t work due to level req of the 6, but just imagine it ^^)
Not sure about the other defensive spells, maybe Retribution? (Heal All and Heal Self suck, altough Heal Self can decrease the amount of potions needed by a bit, not sure if that matters in a segmented run)

Ah, sorry, i totally forgot about this. But, thanks for the info, now i think this run will be okay without abusing the spells. Using a lvl 4 and a 5 haste would save time, but the run would look very ugly, because of the constant bumping into enemies/objects. The problem with Ordrak is that although i can heal myself constantly, he can oneshot me. I noticed that only his cold area attack can kill me. I can avoid that if i move around, but then the fight will be longer. So i want to stand still. Also, thanks for the info about resists. Sadly, i won't put any points on defense, since i already spent them on dex. Dex gives damage to my primary skills. I guess i will die a few times at Ordrak.

About your plan: sounds good, but can vendors sell lvl 2-3 haste when you start the game? I think they can sell lvl 2, but i doubt lvl 3. Sorry, but i forgot your skill distribution, but do you use the critical skill? It's very useful for me.

And yes, the vendors start selling when you kill the enemies in the town.

I think i will post some videos later.

[quote="Rane"]
Hey bimanc,

I actually mentioned the spell stacking on page 3. :-)
Tough the only time I found two Haste spells they were rank 1 and 2, but still, it made a noticable difference. 4 and 5 might be harsh, I don´t even want to think about something crazy like 4, 5 and 6. :-) (I know it won´t work due to level req of the 6, but just imagine it ^^)
Not sure about the other defensive spells, maybe Retribution? (Heal All and Heal Self suck, altough Heal Self can decrease the amount of potions needed by a bit, not sure if that matters in a segmented run)
[/quote]

Ah, sorry, i totally forgot about this. But, thanks for the info, now i think this run will be okay without abusing the spells. Using a lvl 4 and a 5 haste would save time, but the run would look very ugly, because of the constant bumping into enemies/objects. The problem with Ordrak is that although i can heal myself constantly, he can oneshot me. I noticed that only his cold area attack can kill me. I can avoid that if i move around, but then the fight will be longer. So i want to stand still. Also, thanks for the info about resists. Sadly, i won't put any points on defense, since i already spent them on dex. Dex gives damage to my primary skills. I guess i will die a few times at Ordrak.

About your plan: sounds good, but can vendors sell lvl 2-3 haste when you start the game? I think they can sell lvl 2, but i doubt lvl 3. Sorry, but i forgot your skill distribution, but do you use the critical skill? It's very useful for me.

And yes, the vendors start selling when you kill the enemies in the town.

I think i will post some videos later.

Rane

2010-03-02 01:54:29 am

Amateur Runner

Looking forward to the videos! (Maybe one of you bumping into things with ridiculous speed?^^)

Yes, I´m using the Critical Strikes skill, tough it´s not as useful for me, because at the time I can put points in it I´m already in the middle of the Dwarven Ruins.

Haste 2 is actually good enough, because I can equip it earlier, which allows me to use it to run through the Etherian Ruins and the damn caves. In both of those areas I don´t fight too much, because the enemies are usually too scattered around, which makes my AE skills less effective.

I´ll see if i can record 1 or 2 attemps tonight.

bimanc

Edit history:

bimanc: 2010-03-02 05:17:19 am

2010-03-02 04:35:11 am

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

Here's the part three of my run, with some running: (it's unedited)

If you look close, you can see that i gain xp a lot faster than normal. So imo the xp glitch works with all dot skills.
I hope it's not a huge problem that i segment the run heavily. Because of the high speed, it's hard to do it flawlessly, i mean i had to remember the map, look out for enemies to not bump into them, sometimes i have to kill them, because they block my way completely, and i have to drink potions, and look for haste cooldown. Probably it's possible to shave off a second from most of the segments.

I agree with you, but as a side note, i had to say that i felt sad that i have to run through the Etherian ruins, because there are a lot more champions there.

Good luck for your attempts, your ss efforts are much harder than any segmented. Sadly, i can't really help with ideas.

Edit: Edit: I recorded a small video with using lvl4 + lvl5 haste. Looking at it now makes me believe it can be controlled. It saves around 5 seconds on a very short level, with huge mistakes, so i'm sad now. I think i will finish this current run, and maybe i will improve it later with two hastes. At least i can use the leveling part of my current run for that.

Here's the video: http://www.mediafire.com/?td4njmtjyyn

Here's the part three of my run, with some running: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBuRp3wDb-0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBuRp3wDb-0[/url]  (it's unedited)

If you look close, you can see that i gain xp a lot faster than normal. So imo the xp glitch works with all dot skills.
I hope it's not a huge problem that i segment the run heavily. Because of the high speed, it's hard to do it flawlessly, i mean i had to remember the map, look out for enemies to not bump into them, sometimes i have to kill them, because they block my way completely, and i have to drink potions, and look for haste cooldown. Probably it's possible to shave off a second from most of the segments.

I agree with you, but as a side note, i had to say that i felt sad that i have to run through the Etherian ruins, because there are a lot more champions there.

Good luck for your attempts, your ss efforts are much harder than any segmented. Sadly, i can't really help with ideas.

Edit: Edit: I recorded a small video with using lvl4 + lvl5 haste. Looking at it now makes me believe it can be controlled. It saves around 5 seconds on a very short level, with huge mistakes, so i'm sad now. I think i will finish this current run, and maybe i will improve it later with two hastes. At least i can use the leveling part of my current run for that.

Here's the video: [url=http://www.mediafire.com/?td4njmtjyyn]http://www.mediafire.com/?td4njmtjyyn[/url]

bimanc

Edit history:

bimanc: 2010-03-03 05:37:48 pm

2010-03-03 03:38:19 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

Ok, i finished the run just five minutes ago. I may try the last segment again later, but probably not. The in-game timer at the end is around 31:50. It's because i don't know how it would be timed. The ending sequence was screwed up, i stood next to the waypoint, so i got the cutscene with the running girl first, then the text with the story's end, then the cutscene with Ordrak's death. I died three times during the fight, which is very lucky, the usual bodycount is 6. I really don't think it's possible to do this without a single death. Or, yes it's possible, but that would be even slower.

I will encode and upload to yt the videos, and decide about the following.

And a little fun fact: it's the second speedrun which was started by Billay, and finished by me earlier. Sorry bro, it's just a coincidence. Or maybe we have the same tastes? Wink

Edit: Playlist of all videos (Some of them are still being processed):

Ok, i finished the run just five minutes ago. I may try the last segment again later, but probably not. The in-game timer at the end is around 31:50. It's because i don't know how it would be timed. The ending sequence was screwed up, i stood next to the waypoint, so i got the cutscene with the running girl first, then the text with the story's end, then the cutscene with Ordrak's death. I died three times during the fight, which is very lucky, the usual bodycount is 6. I really don't think it's possible to do this without a single death. Or, yes it's possible, but that would be even slower.

I will encode and upload to yt the videos, and decide about the following.

And a little fun fact: it's the second speedrun which was started by Billay, and finished by me earlier. Sorry bro, it's just a coincidence. Or maybe we have the same tastes?  ;)

Edit: Playlist of all videos (Some of them are still being processed):

[url=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1E280CB2EB50879C]http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1E280CB2EB50879C[/url]

bimanc

2010-03-11 03:24:54 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

So, i decided i would imrprove this run with a new plan, and since it was requested, here's a hq encode of the run:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V9JM87E3

The loading screens are trimmed down.

I still need to test a few things for the new plan...

cortez

2010-03-12 04:02:40 am

Stalker!

Thanks

NMS

2010-03-13 02:51:35 pm

Have you considered using Explosive Shot? I'm not sure how it stacks up against Arrow Hail in a speed run, but I found it to be very effective in normal play, even on the highest difficulty. And there are many ways to boost its damage: imbuing your weapon repeatedly (with luck manipulation), Elemental Overload spell (multiple copies) plus offensive spell mastery, maybe manipulating gear that boosts fire damage...

Since you can stash dupe (which I don't like, but if it's legal you gotta use it), money shouldn't be a problem. And you can manipulate items and spells by saving just before you return to town (assuming you spent 30 sec there the last time), right?

bimanc

2010-03-13 03:19:43 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

I didn't check exploding shot, mostly because it's gear dependant. Probably i won't have enough skill points, or high level for that. Supporting spell wouldn't be a problem, since i can steal spells from vendors. Using multiple spells would be a problem, though, since i want to use double, or maybe triple haste, and that would be a lot of hotkeys.

Manipulating vendors could be done by simply save and reload in town after you spent 30 seconds there. But i don't know if i can manipulate several spells at the same type. Otherwise, every spell needs a new 30 seconds waiting, and that's not good.

Overall, the Ordrak fight is only a couple of minutes long, and every tweak could save seconds there. The other bossfights are much shorter. The most important goal is to save time during leveling and runnning, so random boss manipulation+haste spells.

NMS

2010-03-13 09:37:34 pm

If you manipulate items more than once, you could get one version of elemental overload each time. Or maybe one would be enough. Anyway, you don't have to learn them until you reach Ordrak if the other bosses don't need the extra dps. (Although it might save time against the guy you kill for Hatch's quest who takes 1.5 minutes, if you're still planning to kill him.) Damage boosting armor may not be worth it, but if you start with a halfway decent weapon, successfully imbuing it a bunch of times adds a lot of dps. I think it's worth trying anyway.

bimanc

2010-03-14 01:54:59 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

First, i don't want to manipulate more than once, since it requires 30 seconds. Maybe i have to do this, but i don't know if it is even doable to manipulate more than once item/spell at the same time. I mean, the chance to get a single haste is very low, and getting two or three spells might have astronomical odds. The random boss fight(s) you mention will be much faster, since i want to use a direct damage skill instead of the pet. I realized that Adventurer is totally useless.

But, here's a little info about the plan: run through the mine faster, kill less enemies. Reach lvl 19 in the beginning of the Necropolis, then finish Hatch's quest (lvl 4 haste), and kill 3 bosses in that dungeon (hit lvl 26 probably). Then manipulate a lvl 5 haste (maybe a lvl 3 too), and if any useful spell shows up, steal that, too. Then run.

I need to test if it is worth to use triple-haste, and check a few other things like the support spells.

Thanatos

2010-03-29 02:01:09 pm

I bought this game yesterday for 5 bucks on steam (and beat it) and i think i found a glitch, you guys probably know about it since to me it seems like such an elementary programming mistake, but here's what i found.

I talked with the transmuting guy and placed my weapon (at the time it was some magic spewing thing), clicked transmute and naturally nothing happened, however when i clicked cancel and checked my inventory again, the item i tried to transmute was in the inventory bag as well as being equipped by my character, however the equipped weapons box was empty but if you hovered over it with your mouse you could still see its stats, this can be used on the patched version.

I can record a video to show you guys if you want.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2010-04-28 07:52:09 pm

2010-04-19 12:35:00 pm

The time needed to be in town to get shopkeepers to restock does not count any time that is spent in a store. It has to be 30+ seconds unpaused. There is no dungeon time requirement, though. You can immediately portal back in for it to restock if your previous trip was adequate. Pretty rough that there's all that wasted time trying to get Haste scrolls.

I attempted a few single segment runs as Vanquisher, but they didn't go great. Probably best to attempt to get at least one good haste scroll as soon as the leveling segment is over, and quit after 4-5 attempts or so. Not having haste raises the time far too much. I was pretty surprised at how little damage Ordrak was doing to me with only 124 cold resistance, I never got dangerously close to dying in the run.
Best time was: real time 1:30:xx, game time 1:11:48.

Edit: Did a better single segment, a couple large errors slowed me down, and I only got haste 3 (Got it on the second trip to town, though.) Leveling could be done more optimally, had a few bad deaths, and I had some bad misplays from the later maps I am less familiar with.
1:16:xx real time, 0:56:53 game time. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a355/Commander_Vimes/easyspdrn.jpg
Might try a real run soon, now that I am getting decent times.

The time needed to be in town to get shopkeepers to restock does not count any time that is spent in a store. It has to be 30+ seconds unpaused. There is no dungeon time requirement, though. You can immediately portal back in for it to restock if your previous trip was adequate. Pretty rough that there's all that wasted time trying to get Haste scrolls.

I attempted a few single segment runs as Vanquisher, but they didn't go great. Probably best to attempt to get at least one good haste scroll as soon as the leveling segment is over, and quit after 4-5 attempts or so. Not having haste raises the time far too much. I was pretty surprised at how little damage Ordrak was doing to me with only 124 cold resistance, I never got dangerously close to dying in the run.
Best time was: real time 1:30:xx, game time 1:11:48.

Edit: Did a better single segment, a couple large errors slowed me down, and I only got haste 3 (Got it on the second trip to town, though.) Leveling could be done more optimally, had a few bad deaths, and I had some bad misplays from the later maps I am less familiar with.
1:16:xx real time, 0:56:53 game time. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a355/Commander_Vimes/easyspdrn.jpg
Might try a real run soon, now that I am getting decent times.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2010-05-01 01:21:07 pm

2010-05-01 12:58:58 pm

Best single segment run I've done so far, so I decided to upload this one. 0h51m15s game time after killing the final boss. It's pretty sloppy at times, so I hope to at least manage a sub-50 eventually. I almost dumped this run but then got Haste 4 + 5 and decided to roll with it.

Leveling could have gone better, Lair of the Sisters fight was pretty bad, lots of time spent in town, could have gotten Barter instead of some levels into Critical to make town trips less ridiculous, stacking cold resist was a poor choice (at the end fight I get cocky, and his mob wrecks me with what I think is fire damage), alternatively could have stacked up some critical and fast cast rate by duping the chaos gem I got from the quest, on my second trip to town for potions I should have gotten better healing potions, there were some avoidable minor misplays in my pathing, and in one of later bosses I somehow manage to not trigger him and waste some time on that.

On the plus side, I buy Haste 1, 4, and 5, and pick up a Dervish 2 spell from the ground, inventory manipulation was mostly solid, I cleared most floors pretty quickly, and on most bosses I got quick kills.

Sorry about the loading screens, I decided to leave them in to prove that it's single segment by the music not skipping. I also didn't bother encoding in HD after the first video.

Best single segment run I've done so far, so I decided to upload this one. 0h51m15s game time after killing the final boss. It's pretty sloppy at times, so I hope to at least manage a sub-50 eventually. I almost dumped this run but then got Haste 4 + 5 and decided to roll with it.

Leveling could have gone better, Lair of the Sisters fight was pretty bad, lots of time spent in town, could have gotten Barter instead of some levels into Critical to make town trips less ridiculous, stacking cold resist was a poor choice (at the end fight I get cocky, and his mob wrecks me with what I think is fire damage), alternatively could have stacked up some critical and fast cast rate by duping the chaos gem I got from the quest, on my second trip to town for potions I should have gotten better healing potions, there were some avoidable minor misplays in my pathing, and in one of later bosses I somehow manage to not trigger him and waste some time on that.

On the plus side, I buy Haste 1, 4, and 5, and pick up a Dervish 2 spell from the ground, inventory manipulation was mostly solid, I cleared most floors pretty quickly, and on most bosses I got quick kills.

Sorry about the loading screens, I decided to leave them in to prove that it's single segment by the music not skipping. I also didn't bother encoding in HD after the first video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2VxOZDtubU&feature=PlayList&p=8A2B7800F13FA99C&playnext_from=PL&index=0

bimanc

Edit history:

bimanc: 2010-05-01 06:29:25 pm

2010-05-01 06:10:58 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

It's well done, at least the parts i watched already. But let me tell you a few things:

-You did it with a gamepad? Or what hotkeys are you using? Shocked

-In the unpatched version you can simply take the spell scrolls from the vendor's inventory and put them in your spell slots without any price. The first haste scroll was there at the beginning, so you could have advance through the early levels with that.
-You spent a lot of time in the town when you duped the gems. If you split that part, and just dupe for 30 seconds, then go down, go back to town, check haste scrolls, dupe a little more, you could possibly have the scrolls before you start to run.
-I think you can leave rock trolls behind, they took too much time. Look out for bosses, i think you left one at the beginning of floor 3.
-When you are in a room which closes, and you have to kill all enemies to unlock it, and there's only one moster left, kill it normally.
-I don't really know how you spent skill points, but for the early bosses, you can use that charge skill (i forgot it's name), which does good damage and easy to control.
-Also, if you don't have to spend any time in the dungeon to change vendor offers, then don't run forward, just go back to town immediately. When you have the scrolls you can save time by running faster.
-You can dupe in the pet's inventory, that's a little closer.
-You are using multiple haste spells without knowing the map layout. I feel your pain, you poor thing. Cry

I will maybe point out more, when i will finish the videos, but it seems very good for a single segment run, congrats.

Edit: watched the whole run, you managed very well the ridiculous speed. Lol@ that boss which you can't trigger, never thought it's possible. I think you should do the last fight like i did, so you don't have to run around because of the summoned adds. And, your damage is a bit low on Ordrak, which i can't explain. Maybe it's stat/gear/skill related? Overall, if you optimize the duping-haste manipulating part, then it will be an excellent run. I can't wait to watch it. The dervis scroll is a brilliant idea, by the way.

It's well done, at least the parts i watched already. But let me tell you a few things:

-You did it with a gamepad? Or what hotkeys are you using?  :o
-In the unpatched version you can simply take the spell scrolls from the vendor's inventory and put them in your spell slots without any price. The first haste scroll was there at the beginning, so you could have advance through the early levels with that. 
-You spent a lot of time in the town when you duped the gems. If you split that part, and just dupe for 30 seconds, then go down, go back to town, check haste scrolls, dupe a little more, you could possibly have the scrolls before you start to run. 
-I think you can leave rock trolls behind, they took too much time. Look out for bosses, i think you left one at the beginning of floor 3.
-When you are in a room which closes, and you have to kill all enemies to unlock it, and there's only one moster left, kill it normally. 
-I don't really know how you spent skill points, but for the early bosses, you can use that charge skill (i forgot it's name), which does good damage and easy to control. 
-Also, if you don't have to spend any time in the dungeon to change vendor offers, then don't run forward, just go back to town immediately. When you have the scrolls you can save time by running faster.
-You can dupe in the pet's inventory, that's a little closer. 
-You are using multiple haste spells without knowing the map layout. I feel your pain, you poor thing.  :'(

I will maybe point out more, when i will finish the videos, but it seems very good for a single segment run, congrats.

Edit: watched the whole run, you managed very well the ridiculous speed. Lol@ that boss which you can't trigger, never thought it's possible. I think you should do the last fight like i did, so you don't have to run around because of the summoned adds. And, your damage is a bit low on Ordrak, which i can't explain. Maybe it's stat/gear/skill related? Overall, if you optimize the duping-haste manipulating part, then it will be an excellent run. I can't wait to watch it. The dervis scroll is a brilliant idea, by the way.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2010-05-01 07:32:44 pm

2010-05-01 07:14:27 pm

Quote from bimanc:

Thanks for the feedback.

-I just used the default hotkeys for everything with a keyboard.
-I didn't know that spell bug, that's incredibly helpful for shaving off some seconds wasted in town duping for money for it, and an early haste.
-I need to do further testing because I can't seem to get consistency with resetting the vendors. It seemed sometimes just 30 seconds in town was fine, but other times I would spend at least 35 seconds unpaused in town and it wouldn't reset. There probably isn't any dungeon time needed, but I wasn't really sure what was causing the vendors to sometimes not reset. Maybe the time needed is just higher than I thought.
-The duping spends an unfortunate amount of time paused, which doesn't seem to count for resetting the vendors. I've had the vendors not reset on me after an extended duping session before. I hadn't considered using the pet's inventory for duping, that should help a lot.
-Rock trolls and room spawns are a good point, too much time wasted waiting.
-I was pretty surprised how low my damage on Ordrak was. I had 23 crit, +120% crit damage from the skill, and +70% from gear. I think my dexterity was lower than it should have been (95), and I only had Arrow Hail 3. I put points into magic and strength when I shouldn't have for some reason (defense was needed for a piece of gear.) Some of the running was to Hamstring him for the decreased armor, but the avoiding the summoned adds is a good idea.

Edit: Definitely no time in the dungeon is needed, it must have been bad timing or a fluke when they didn't reset, because timing with a stopwatch I can consistently get them reset with 35 seconds in town (35 instead of 30 to compensate for vendor time.) Probably not enough time added to compensate for trading with vendors when they didn't reset for me. Being paused with a vendor for 30 minutes and then hanging out in the dungeon for about 5 minutes didn't reset the vendors, which is pretty unfortunate for the town segments.

[quote="bimanc"]
[/quote]
Thanks for the feedback.

-I just used the default hotkeys for everything with a keyboard.
-I didn't know that spell bug, that's incredibly helpful for shaving off some seconds wasted in town duping for money for it, and an early haste.
-I need to do further testing because I can't seem to get consistency with resetting the vendors. It seemed sometimes just 30 seconds in town was fine, but other times I would spend at least 35 seconds unpaused in town and it wouldn't reset. There probably isn't any dungeon time needed, but I wasn't really sure what was causing the vendors to sometimes not reset. Maybe the time needed is just higher than I thought.
-The duping spends an unfortunate amount of time paused, which doesn't seem to count for resetting the vendors. I've had the vendors not reset on me after an extended duping session before. I hadn't considered using the pet's inventory for duping, that should help a lot.
-Rock trolls and room spawns are a good point, too much time wasted waiting.
-I was pretty surprised how low my damage on Ordrak was. I had 23 crit, +120% crit damage from the skill, and +70% from gear. I think my dexterity was lower than it should have been (95), and I only had Arrow Hail 3. I put points into magic and strength when I shouldn't have for some reason (defense was needed for a piece of gear.) Some of the running was to Hamstring him for the decreased armor, but the avoiding the summoned adds is a good idea.

Edit: Definitely no time in the dungeon is needed, it must have been bad timing or a fluke when they didn't reset, because timing with a stopwatch I can consistently get them reset with 35 seconds in town (35 instead of 30 to compensate for vendor time.) Probably not enough time added to compensate for trading with vendors when they didn't reset for me. Being paused with a vendor for 30 minutes and then hanging out in the dungeon for about 5 minutes didn't reset the vendors, which is pretty unfortunate for the town segments.

bimanc

2010-05-01 08:41:12 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

It's interessting, we discussed it before, and i thought town vendors don't pause the game. You are right with duping though, maybe the part when you upgrade the gems has enough time to reset the vendors, so you can do re-visit the town at least once during the town sequence. I don't remember what was really different with my character, but i think my weapon gave a nice crit boost, plus i spent all points to dexterity. I know about the hamstring debuff, but i thought that standing still and constantly casting the spell is the fastest. That's why i didn't bother with resists. I think it should be tested to see which method is faster, just casting spells or using the hamstring debuff.

The thing with the hotkeys is amazing. Some actions are much faster with them, i don't know how i didn't notice them before.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2010-05-03 07:02:14 pm

2010-05-02 08:50:32 am

edit: ops

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2011-03-23 11:25:35 am

Lawyer Dog: 2010-05-05 06:16:28 am

2010-05-03 07:01:08 pm

Quote from bimanc:

It's interessting, we discussed it before, and i thought town vendors don't pause the game. You are right with duping though, maybe the part when you upgrade the gems has enough time to reset the vendors, so you can do re-visit the town at least once during the town sequence. I don't remember what was really different with my character, but i think my weapon gave a nice crit boost, plus i spent all points to dexterity. I know about the hamstring debuff, but i thought that standing still and constantly casting the spell is the fastest. That's why i didn't bother with resists. I think it should be tested to see which method is faster, just casting spells or using the hamstring debuff.

The thing with the hotkeys is amazing. Some actions are much faster with them, i don't know how i didn't notice them before.

After more testing, spending time with a vendor does not increase the in-game timer, so optimizing that isn't a huge issue. This means more time can be reasonably spent manipulating the inventory, resulting in better gear. Checking the armor shop for increased movement speed is definitely something to be added to my trips since this is the case.
Some preliminary testing leads me to believe hamstringing him would be slower than just arrow rain. I was assuming it was a +21% increase in damage, but testing is showing very minimal damage gains, more like +5% at the most, making it worse than just using another arrow rain instead.

Update: Got a really good run done after a bunch of tries killed by haste scrolls. 0h44m48s game time after the boss dies, 0h59m57s video time (With proper video settings this time too, 1280x720 in 60fps.)
Some minor mistakes in the leveling segment, but it was pretty solid. There were a couple boss mobs that I accidentally didn't DOT to death because I was using the charge attack to speed things up a lot, and a few times it used the spell once more than I wanted. I hit level 25 after the Lair of Sisters at about 20 minutes into the video time (About two minutes faster than my last run's leveling.) Got a Haste 1 right at the start which sped things up a bit. On the return trips I got Haste 3, Dervish 5, and Elemental Protection 5. Would have preferred a third haste or at least a better haste, but getting dervish and elemental protection was alright too. I lose like 10 seconds on the vendor segment from it not resetting for some reason even though I made sure to time it with a stopwatch this time.

The rest of the run is pretty good, no major mistakes, just a few minor ones. I run right past the boss that didn't trigger for me on the uploaded run again, but I catch myself and run back to where it will trigger. Interestingly I could actually damage him before triggering the cutscene. I die a couple of times in the Ordrak fight but it's nothing too terrible. I was wrong to write off that cold resistance I had stacked up before, he ohkos me with one of his spells. All of his spells seem to do cold-type damage as far as I can tell, and using the upper left area to kill him makes his mob not dangerous.

edit: WHOOPS QUOTE IS NOT EDIT
I watched over it again and haven't noticed any terrible mistakes. I don't use Haste 1 a whole lot before I get points into defensive mastery because of the cast time, low movement speed increase, time spent waiting for enemies to die (they seem to stop taking damage if they're far enough off your screen), and mana cost, but this might have been a misplay. The town segments could be more optimized but with it not actually counting towards the time I am not terribly concerned, and there's only around 15 minutes of video time that isn't game time, and a majority of that is just loading screens.

edit: Oh gosh this post is getting pretty huge. High Quality and Low Quality not yet encoded.
Not actually verified yet, of course, but I elected to do the intro screen so I wouldn't have to edit the video more later if I end up submitting this.
[dead links]

[quote="bimanc"]
It's interessting, we discussed it before, and i thought town vendors don't pause the game. You are right with duping though, maybe the part when you upgrade the gems has enough time to reset the vendors, so you can do re-visit the town at least once during the town sequence. I don't remember what was really different with my character, but i think my weapon gave a nice crit boost, plus i spent all points to dexterity. I know about the hamstring debuff, but i thought that standing still and constantly casting the spell is the fastest. That's why i didn't bother with resists. I think it should be tested to see which method is faster, just casting spells or using the hamstring debuff.

The thing with the hotkeys is amazing. Some actions are much faster with them, i don't know how i didn't notice them before. 
[/quote]
After more testing, spending time with a vendor does [i]not[/i] increase the in-game timer, so optimizing that isn't a huge issue. This means more time can be reasonably spent manipulating the inventory, resulting in better gear. Checking the armor shop for increased movement speed is definitely something to be added to my trips since this is the case.
Some preliminary testing leads me to believe hamstringing him would be slower than just arrow rain. I was assuming it was a +21% increase in damage, but testing is showing very minimal damage gains, more like +5% at the most, making it worse than just using another arrow rain instead.

Update: Got a really good run done after a bunch of tries killed by haste scrolls. 0h44m48s game time after the boss dies, 0h59m57s video time (With proper video settings this time too, 1280x720 in 60fps.)
Some minor mistakes in the leveling segment, but it was pretty solid. There were a couple boss mobs that I accidentally didn't DOT to death because I was using the charge attack to speed things up a lot, and a few times it used the spell once more than I wanted. I hit level 25 after the Lair of Sisters at about 20 minutes into the video time (About two minutes faster than my last run's leveling.) Got a Haste 1 right at the start which sped things up a bit. On the return trips I got Haste 3, Dervish 5, and Elemental Protection 5. Would have preferred a third haste or at least a better haste, but getting dervish and elemental protection was alright too. I lose like 10 seconds on the vendor segment from it not resetting for some reason even though I made sure to time it with a stopwatch this time.

The rest of the run is pretty good, no major mistakes, just a few minor ones. I run right past the boss that didn't trigger for me on the uploaded run again, but I catch myself and run back to where it will trigger. Interestingly I could actually damage him before triggering the cutscene. I die a couple of times in the Ordrak fight but it's nothing too terrible. I was wrong to write off that cold resistance I had stacked up before, he ohkos me with one of his spells. All of his spells seem to do cold-type damage as far as I can tell, and using the upper left area to kill him makes his mob not dangerous.

edit: WHOOPS QUOTE IS NOT EDIT
I watched over it again and haven't noticed any terrible mistakes. I don't use Haste 1 a whole lot before I get points into defensive mastery because of the cast time, low movement speed increase, time spent waiting for enemies to die (they seem to stop taking damage if they're far enough off your screen), and mana cost, but this might have been a misplay. The town segments could be more optimized but with it not actually counting towards the time I am not terribly concerned, and there's only around 15 minutes of video time that isn't game time, and a majority of that is just loading screens.

edit: Oh gosh this post is getting pretty huge. High Quality and Low Quality not yet encoded.
Not actually verified yet, of course, but I elected to do the intro screen so I wouldn't have to edit the video more later if I end up submitting this.
[dead links]

bimanc

2010-05-05 01:29:10 pm

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

I watched your IQ video, it worked fine with CCCP+Zplayer 5.00.

It was a really good one for a single-segment run. You beat up Master Alric so hard, he started to run in the wrong direction, lol.

What i really can say, is that you should check the amount of gained levels from all random bosses (of you kill them bugged), plus the forced bosses including the sisters, and maybe that hallway before the end of the Necropolis last boss. If that is enough, you can speed up the leveling by ignoring most normal enemies, big groups, too, and kill bosses mostly. If you have the haste scroll from the beginning, then you can advance through those levels (mine+necropolis) faster than you did, and you can actually use the haste, instead of waiting constantly for enemies to die.

I see some heavy similarities between your maps and mine, so maybe a few levels are not that random (apart from the static ones), so maybe you can find your way easier if you investigate this.

The boss fight was totally okay, i had worse fights in a segmented run. But something bothers me now, you can always see two damage lines on Ordrak, so maybe it's limited how often can you hit him? Diablo 2 has a game mechanic like this, the next delay or something, and this game was made by those guys. We should confirm that dervish is useful for bosses or not.

Also, it's maybe on my side, but when you start running for real (after the vendor manipulations/duping) suddenly a little audio desynch appeared, like the sound couldn't follow you.

And now i know what was weird, your mouse cursor doesn't show in the video. In case you record another attempt, can you make it with a visible cursor? It's just better to watch, imho. But, anyway, i think it is acceptable quality for a single-segment run. If you think you can't shave off a few minutes with certain changes/improvements, then it seems okay.

I watched your IQ video, it worked fine with CCCP+Zplayer 5.00.

It was a really good one for a single-segment run. You beat up Master Alric so hard, he started to run in the wrong direction, lol.

What i really can say, is that you should check the amount of gained levels from all random bosses (of you kill them bugged), plus the forced bosses including the sisters, and maybe that hallway before the end of the Necropolis last boss. If that is enough, you can speed up the leveling by ignoring most normal enemies, big groups, too, and kill bosses mostly. If you have the haste scroll from the beginning, then you can advance through those levels (mine+necropolis) faster than you did, and you can actually use the haste, instead of waiting constantly for enemies to die.

I see some heavy similarities between your maps and mine, so maybe a few levels are not that random (apart from the static ones), so maybe you can find your way easier if you investigate this.

The boss fight was totally okay, i had worse fights in a segmented run. But something bothers me now, you can always see two damage lines on Ordrak, so maybe it's limited how often can you hit him? Diablo 2 has a game mechanic like this, the next delay or something, and this game was made by those guys. We should confirm that dervish is useful for bosses or not.

Also, it's maybe on my side, but when you start running for real (after the vendor manipulations/duping) suddenly a little audio desynch appeared, like the sound couldn't follow you.

And now i know what was weird, your mouse cursor doesn't show in the video. In case you record another attempt, can you make it with a visible cursor? It's just better to watch, imho. But, anyway, i think it is acceptable quality for a single-segment run. If you think you can't shave off a few minutes with certain changes/improvements, then it seems okay.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2010-05-11 08:14:46 am

2010-05-05 04:18:54 pm

Quote from bimanc:

I watched your IQ video, it worked fine with CCCP+Zplayer 5.00.

It was a really good one for a single-segment run. You beat up Master Alric so hard, he started to run in the wrong direction, lol.

What i really can say, is that you should check the amount of gained levels from all random bosses (of you kill them bugged), plus the forced bosses including the sisters, and maybe that hallway before the end of the Necropolis last boss. If that is enough, you can speed up the leveling by ignoring most normal enemies, big groups, too, and kill bosses mostly. If you have the haste scroll from the beginning, then you can advance through those levels (mine+necropolis) faster than you did, and you can actually use the haste, instead of waiting constantly for enemies to die.

I see some heavy similarities between your maps and mine, so maybe a few levels are not that random (apart from the static ones), so maybe you can find your way easier if you investigate this.

The boss fight was totally okay, i had worse fights in a segmented run. But something bothers me now, you can always see two damage lines on Ordrak, so maybe it's limited how often can you hit him? Diablo 2 has a game mechanic like this, the next delay or something, and this game was made by those guys. We should confirm that dervish is useful for bosses or not.

Also, it's maybe on my side, but when you start running for real (after the vendor manipulations/duping) suddenly a little audio desynch appeared, like the sound couldn't follow you.

And now i know what was weird, your mouse cursor doesn't show in the video. In case you record another attempt, can you make it with a visible cursor? It's just better to watch, imho. But, anyway, i think it is acceptable quality for a single-segment run. If you think you can't shave off a few minutes with certain changes/improvements, then it seems okay.

There are only really a set number of ways the map layout can be, and I can notice the starts of a lot of the dead ends now, but it's definitely random enough that I have to take different paths through a level each time. Changing up the leveling segment is a good point, the extra movement speed from hitting 25 on an earlier floor might not make up for suboptimal leveling on certain enemies. I've done some runs and gotten more consistent but certain luck-based parts are really screwing me over. I had one good run ruined because a cutscene bugged out on me and it wouldn't proceed, and pretty much all the others get ruined by not getting good spells. Showing the cursor is no problem, it's just a setting I forgot. I'm not noticing any audio desynch on my end.

It's seeming like I can improve the time by at least a few minutes, so that one will have the cursor.

edit: Torchlight hates me. No haste scrolls ever. There's like a 80%+ chance the run will end from no starting Haste scroll, and a good 50% chance or something that I don't get good Haste(s) in the 3-5 trips I allow myself back to town. Going to try more runs over the weekend and maybe one of them will make it to Ordrak this time!

edit2: 40:15 game time, 55:27 video time. No deaths. Video looks fine, and it has the cursor this time. This is looking like the best I can manage. I have to do some commentary (text and audio), and then this is looking finished. I am thinking of trying an Alchemist run as well, but if that doesn't pan out I'll submit this by itself. I'll link the parts as they finish uploading and processing. Youtube is going nuts for me now for some reason, so it might be a while.

[quote="bimanc"]
I watched your IQ video, it worked fine with CCCP+Zplayer 5.00.

It was a really good one for a single-segment run. You beat up Master Alric so hard, he started to run in the wrong direction, lol.

What i really can say, is that you should check the amount of gained levels from all random bosses (of you kill them bugged), plus the forced bosses including the sisters, and maybe that hallway before the end of the Necropolis last boss. If that is enough, you can speed up the leveling by ignoring most normal enemies, big groups, too, and kill bosses mostly. If you have the haste scroll from the beginning, then you can advance through those levels (mine+necropolis) faster than you did, and you can actually use the haste, instead of waiting constantly for enemies to die.

I see some heavy similarities between your maps and mine, so maybe a few levels are not that random (apart from the static ones), so maybe you can find your way easier if you investigate this.

The boss fight was totally okay, i had worse fights in a segmented run. But something bothers me now, you can always see two damage lines on Ordrak, so maybe it's limited how often can you hit him? Diablo 2 has a game mechanic like this, the next delay or something, and this game was made by those guys. We should confirm that dervish is useful for bosses or not.

Also, it's maybe on my side, but when you start running for real (after the vendor manipulations/duping) suddenly a little audio desynch appeared, like the sound couldn't follow you.

And now i know what was weird, your mouse cursor doesn't show in the video. In case you record another attempt, can you make it with a visible cursor? It's just better to watch, imho. But, anyway, i think it is acceptable quality for a single-segment run. If you think you can't shave off a few minutes with certain changes/improvements, then it seems okay. 
[/quote]
There are only really a set number of ways the map layout can be, and I can notice the starts of a lot of the dead ends now, but it's definitely random enough that I have to take different paths through a level each time. Changing up the leveling segment is a good point, the extra movement speed from hitting 25 on an earlier floor might not make up for suboptimal leveling on certain enemies. I've done some runs and gotten more consistent but certain luck-based parts are really screwing me over. I had one good run ruined because a cutscene bugged out on me and it wouldn't proceed, and pretty much all the others get ruined by not getting good spells. Showing the cursor is no problem, it's just a setting I forgot. I'm not noticing any audio desynch on my end.

It's seeming like I can improve the time by at least a few minutes, so that one will have the cursor.

edit: Torchlight hates me. No haste scrolls ever. There's like a 80%+ chance the run will end from no starting Haste scroll, and a good 50% chance or something that I don't get good Haste(s) in the 3-5 trips I allow myself back to town. Going to try more runs over the weekend and maybe one of them will make it to Ordrak this time!

edit2: 40:15 game time, 55:27 video time. No deaths. Video looks fine, and it has the cursor this time. This is looking like the best I can manage. I have to do some commentary (text and audio), and then this is looking finished. I am thinking of trying an Alchemist run as well, but if that doesn't pan out I'll submit this by itself. I'll link the parts as they finish uploading and processing. Youtube is going nuts for me now for some reason, so it might be a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GA4ZEaYZe0&feature=PlayList&p=8A2B7800F13FA99C&playnext_from=PL&index=0

bimanc

2010-05-11 06:48:21 am

Lay waste to everything...but I still love SDA!

Watched your videos. I think you should submit this run.

But, there's a missing part between part 4 and 5, probably a few seconds, i hope your original videos are fine. Anyway, i didn't see any major mistakes which shouldn't be in a single-segment run. When you spent skill and stat points in town, you could do that without pausing the game, since you had to wait for 30 seconds. But it didn't waste any time, i know that.
I'm surprised you didn't died at the end. The gems, and items are really useful, i'll keep it in mind.

Thumbs up! Wink

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2011-03-23 11:26:29 am

Lawyer Dog: 2010-05-20 12:32:50 am

2010-05-11 08:40:15 am

Quote from bimanc:

Watched your videos. I think you should submit this run.

But, there's a missing part between part 4 and 5, probably a few seconds, i hope your original videos are fine. Anyway, i didn't see any major mistakes which shouldn't be in a single-segment run. When you spent skill and stat points in town, you could do that without pausing the game, since you had to wait for 30 seconds. But it didn't waste any time, i know that.
I'm surprised you didn't died at the end. The gems, and items are really useful, i'll keep it in mind.

Thumbs up! Wink

The original videos are fine, I just did quick cuts for youtube from the already encoded video and sometimes chose the wrong keyframe. I decided to play it safe in town and do all my duping in one trip, so I didn't need any more time spent in town for that trip.
My items this run ended up mostly being trash, so it was pretty much entirely my zombie spell and cold gems that helped me out. The zombie spell I picked up ended up being surprisingly useful, Ordrak targeted them a lot during my fight with him, and they add some damage (assuming that the limit is just on displaying damage, not on dealing it.)
Run playlist:

Downloads: (Shows up as the wrong aspect ratio in most players, use a video player setting to view it as 16:9. This is fixed and being uploaded again.)
[dead links]

[quote="bimanc"]
Watched your videos. I think you should submit this run.

But, there's a missing part between part 4 and 5, probably a few seconds, i hope your original videos are fine. Anyway, i didn't see any major mistakes which shouldn't be in a single-segment run. When you spent skill and stat points in town, you could do that without pausing the game, since you had to wait for 30 seconds. But it didn't waste any time, i know that.
I'm surprised you didn't died at the end. The gems, and items are really useful, i'll keep it in mind.

Thumbs up!  ;)
[/quote]
The original videos are fine, I just did quick cuts for youtube from the already encoded video and sometimes chose the wrong keyframe. I decided to play it safe in town and do all my duping in one trip, so I didn't need any more time spent in town for that trip.
My items this run ended up mostly being trash, so it was pretty much entirely my zombie spell and cold gems that helped me out. The zombie spell I picked up ended up being surprisingly useful, Ordrak targeted them a lot during my fight with him, and they add some damage (assuming that the limit is just on displaying damage, not on dealing it.)
Run playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GA4ZEaYZe0&feature=PlayList&p=8A2B7800F13FA99C&playnext_from=PL&index=0

Downloads: (Shows up as the wrong aspect ratio in most players, use a video player setting to view it as 16:9. This is fixed and being uploaded again.)
[dead links]

bos

2010-05-19 10:23:23 am

Be careful with the aspect ratios...

RandomEngy

2010-05-19 01:46:49 pm

A Crab

Pretty impressive, sailing around at top speed like that. Also, ending with 1 mana potion, wow. Might have ran out if not for that mana shrine.

Lawyer Dog

Edit history:

Lawyer Dog: 2010-05-19 08:09:00 pm

2010-05-19 07:46:51 pm

Quote from bos:

Be careful with the aspect ratios...

Could you explain? The youtube videos have the quality a bit off because of anri-chan's header or something, so it had to be stretched to the original aspect ratio using a youtube tag, but the files are 16:9. Recorded at 1280x720, and encoded with anri-chan to the same aspect ratio. I've watched the entire encoded IQ, and pieces of the other qualities, and it seems fine.

Speaking of watching the videos, I did about half the video's audio commentary but it was pretty much a trainwreck because there isn't a whole lot to say, especially when I get to the point where I am just sprinting from floor to floor. Text comments here: http://pastebin.com/71nx0PxU
Not very hurried about submitting, since it's summer and either I or someone else might improve the run or discover a better way to do something. Not like there's an older worse run on the site to replace. Might try a segmented run, see if I can get a good time.