Roll Eyes
Lips Sealed
1234 ->
List results:
Search options:
Use \ before commas in usernames
Edit history:
Billay: 2009-12-13 03:33:21 pm
I've been working on routes and strategies for a Torchlight run. This is what I planned out so far:

Run for Destroyer on easy.

Haste spell will be essential to the run.

Segment 1:
Make character
Run to mines entrance

Segment 2:
Manipulate boss backs and drops to get a weapon and level 3
Put skill points in Soul Rend (2)
Put stat points in strength (10)
Run to level 4

Segment 3:
Kill Brink

Segment 4:
Manipulate drops from boss chests

Segment 5:
Go to town, buy potions, buy haste spell
Return to mines

Segment 6:
Use haste to run to the mini boss
Kill boss packs along the way to get level 4
Put points in Soul Rend and Strength

Segment 7:
Kill mini bosses (manipulate drops)
Get level 5, points in Soul Rend and strength
Run to Overseer and spawn him
Go to town and buy potions
Return to dungeon and save

Segment 8:
Kill Overseer and save
Thread title:  
I'm interested in this, but before I get into deeper questions and route discussion  I have 3 questions:

1. Are you doing this run patched or unpatched? I know the major timesavers would be duping items on the unpatched version.

2. How are you deleting the game's autosaves to manipulate stuff? I don't really know the process to it, or what to search for.

3. Is there a reason why you're doing this on easy?
1. I am using the patched version. I didn't know about duping in the unpatched, so I will probably switch.
2. The files are in the save folder in %appdata%\runic games\torchlight\save. I'm just backing up the current save for the segment and copying it to the save folder when I need to redo the segment.
3. I believe it will be faster on easy, but I haven't looked at the major differences between the difficulties.
To dupe, you just click on something cheap the merchants inventory, and drag it to the item you're duping. Demonstrated here

Early on you could fish for an ember fish eye (+20% to experience gained, 300 seconds) and dupe it a lot so you can level up by killing fewer monsters. Could also dupe an expensive item many times so that you can afford a high level version of haste earlier. And I'm sure there are some other potential uses.

Easy will be by far the fastest, I only brought it up because I felt that it was too easy, and provided no challenge. But for raw speed, I can see why you would choose it.

I assume the different characters will be different categories, but the fastest will likely be Vanquisher, who has this EXP gaining bug in the unpatched version:

How do I roll back the version? I have the steam version.
You could try deleting Torchlight from the games list (right-click, delete local content), re-download it, then before updates are downloaded, right click it in the games list, go to properties, updates, and choose "do not update". I'm not positive that this works, but I'll try it later today.

If you want to back up character files try this :

And I guess worst comes to worst you could try to torrent an unpatched version, but I won't get into that.
Oh cmon, imo using that old version with all its bugs is kinda lame, and it doesn't make it more interesting either :\ And actually, the game is already very easy with a destroyer on very hard difficulty Cheesy
Quote from reg:
You could try deleting Torchlight from the games list (right-click, delete local content), re-download it, then before updates are downloaded, right click it in the games list, go to properties, updates, and choose "do not update". I'm not positive that this works, but I'll try it later today.
I doubt that will work.  I'm pretty sure Steam auto-downloads the latest version and then will stop updating, meaning no dupes.
I just got this game yesterday and I love it, so it would be great to see a speedrun of this.  Best of luck!
Yeah, Hobo seems to be right. I couldn't keep Steam from applying the patch, if anyone knows a way around it, it would be nice to hear.

Overall, duping really wouldn't save all that much time. If this is still being done on Very Easy, the extra EXP from fish eyes isn't that big of a deal, since the amount of killing in the run won't be terribly high to begin with. Getting one or two could still be useful And the money for Haste spells can be gotten in other ways (or can the spells themselves just be dropped from monsters, I forget). Faster load times from the patch are nice too.

Sorry for forgetting this topic, I've been a little busy, but I'll start replaying TL and looking for strats/timesavers.
Procrastination Nation!
A strat for the final boss is to kite him into the starting room (where the stairs are).  The dragons don't spawn there so you only have to deal with him.  This works on the latest version.
No real reason to even consider a dupe unless you manipulate an amazing item out of a gamble or something to that degree (boss "floors" perhaps)

That being said, Vanq is probably the fastest way to go because explosive shot is just OP and the xp gain skill is relatively quick to get to, alternating between explosive shot and the lvl/fame increase skill would probably be optimal for a few levels.

Have you done any testing on say.. the first few floors 1-6(ish) to see if there were any optimal paths during any them.

Also, what about the hatch portals? they could be quite useful for levels if you manage to get yourself a gun that can put out some serious damage.

Fishing is probably pointless, however, it may be worthwhile to luck manipulate an experience fish prior to all bosses (except final boss) [would produce some extra and very short segment]
Procrastination Nation!
Another good possibility is summoner build of the caster (alchemist).

I am pretty sure that the entire game is randomized, so I don't know if there is a best route through it.  Chances are you can miss some of the spawns where multiple normal units will appear.
I wonder if SDA would allow modding of the game to allow the quickest route maps (as in, smallest in size) which centralizes most monsters and removes the endless amounts of re-starting a save file due to randomized mapping. I know they have an official editor that gives you the old maps as baselines to go off of. However, i can also see where this wouldn't be allowed due to it probably being considered a TAS by that point by rigging the maps through a "3rd party" program.

Anyone know for sure? it would certainly reduce the amount of sanity lost on the runners behalf, but then again; speedruns aren't exactly for the sane Evil
Just call me the cynicism machine
Quote from Dudemanguy86:
I wonder if SDA would allow modding of the game to allow the quickest route maps

Nope.  Find a way to manipulate the maps otherwise, but modding is really only allowed if the mods see that it's necessary to make the game actually completable.
Quote from Zurreco:
Nope.  Find a way to manipulate the maps otherwise, but modding is really only allowed if the mods see that it's necessary to make the game actually completable.

Has there ever been a case like that?  I can't imagine how broken a game would have to be to necessitate modding to beat it.
Just call me the cynicism machine
Daikatana might need to use modding for noclip in one of the E1 missions.  That, and maybe if someone wanted to do a 100% Space Station Silicon Valley.  Otherwise, nothing off the top of my head.

Either way, don't mod.
Amateur Runner
Billay: Are you still working on this? If so, do you have any estimates on a target time? Also: Is skilling Soul Rend necessary? I found it to be a very underpowered (and slow!) skill.
I've been back in school and really busy, but I did do a play through in one sitting and got just over 2 hours with level 28. With manipulation and not getting lost I'm thinking in the 1-1:30 range. Yes, I am rethinking Soul Rend because of its slowness, but it seems like the most powerful skill early on for bosses. I couldn't rollback my steam copy btw so this is still the current version.
Actually, even QdQstats changes quake, and that's used to record the official demos on SDA now. There are some maps in the original Quake (both patched and unpatched) that don't have correct totals. For example, I remember that on e4m3 easy, it is impossible to get 100% kills because of a fiend that has no trigger to teleport him inside of the playable map. I know, because when I used to speedrun quake as DooMfienD I actually had to edit the map to see wtf I was missing. Tongue

oof, possibly my worst typo in history.
Amateur Runner
After getting bored with my 2 characters on very hard i tried to speedrun the Easy Hardcore mode two times last week. I also restricted myself to "Iron Man Mode", which means no town trips (they take too long anyway, and add 2 loading screens each).

1st try:
Stat point distribution: 3 Strength, 2 Defense
Reached Ordrak at character Level 27, time 2:30 or so
Died with Ordrak at half health (didn´t play carefully enough and got hit by 3 dragonkin breathing on me, oops)

2nd try:
Stat point distribution: 4 Strength, 1 Defense
Reached Ordrak at character level 25, time 1:58 (entering boss level)
Died after 4 minutes of fighting, due to running out of potions, damn!

In both runs, i put skill points into Advanced Spellcasting at the end, due to running out of mana potions. Might try Devastate next time, to see if it brings Ordrak down faster (on level 1 or 2).
I found no Haste spell in both attempts, this with a few points in defensive spell mastery might take the time down significantly.

Some things I´d recommend (I guess you know most of them already ^^):
- Stampede is awesome, at Skill level 5-7 it one-shots most enemies in the game.
- Only attack groups of 3 or more enemies, or stampede over enemies that are directly on your path. Exception: Champions, they give so much loot/XP/fame, its abnormal :-)
- Martial Weapons Expertise and Armor Expertise are worth looking into, I found that the reduced requirements helped me use most of the blue, set and unique items I found.
- Identify only blue or better items, to save time

I´m currently thinking about buying Fraps and recording a (single segment) try myself. On my next attempt I will try putting all Stat points into Strength, I found that most damage I took was because of longer fights with the bosses.

How do you time your runs? I used the game-internal timer (in the journal), but I´m not sure how this is done with pausing the game (which i did during the inventory-fiddle bits, and obviously the levelups).

Also: Good luck! Maybe you can break the 1-hour barrier with a segmented run!
Amateur Runner
Okay, I have toyed around a bit more, 2 single segment runs
#1 failed at Ordrak, (2:0x) clvl 24
#2 failed at Master Alric (1:50) due to stupidity (Dragonkin again, man i hate those guys, especially when they outlevel you ^^)

My findings:
- Set your pet to aggressive while running towards the mine at game start, it actually makes kills on its own on Easy difficulty

- Let your pet kill enemies while doing inventory/levelup stuff*

- All stat points into strength is viable, might have to put some points into the other attributes to use equipment tough (or put points into Armor Expertise, at the cost of more aggressive skills), especially when you are manipulating yourself some nice items.

- All skill points into offensive abilities is viable as well, in my last try I dumped everything into: Martial Weapons Expertise (Max), Dual Wielding (Max**), Slash (6+), Stampede (5-6, due to mana cost), Critical Strikes (5+)

- Rings/Amulets have almost no relevant stats on them, the time cost of picking them up / identifying might not be worth it at all

- The same goes for  green and blue helmets, shoulder pieces and gloves, it might be best to get a decent item for each slot and then stop picking any up (Uniques might be an exception)

- I have seen non-unique boots and body armors with +running speed, so they might be worth it

- Equipping the pet with rings/amulets is not worth it as well, but summoning spells have worked okay, possibly enough to offset the 3 seconds to equip them :-D

- the in-dungeon vendors are great for buying potions, in the black palace i could buy Grand Healing and Mana Potions, which aren´t even available in town

- Some, but not all, of the cut-scenes can be skipped with the ESC-key
(From the top of my head, skippable: Battle before the mine, Brinks corruption, Syl´s blahblah after the boss in the estorian ruins, Ember colossus approaching, Goblin Boss approaching, Shade approaching, Alric approaching, Ordrak un-freezing)

- I found Slash to be an adequate replacement to Soul Rend, it deals a little less damage to single targets but it´s immensely useful against large mobs because of it´s cheap mana cost (compared to Stampede). Against bosses and champions it´s also rather good, because you can kill the boss and the minions at the same time by not having your mouse on the boss directly. When you swing at a ~45° angle it hits the boss and all enemies on one side.

- Stampede sometimes behaves weirdly: Sometimes the charge is stopped at the first enemy and damages only that one. First I suspected that it was only knockback resistant/immune enemies, but it even happened with Goblins Stabbers and Dwarven Wights. :-/

An important question that should be resolved before anyone records anything:
How would this be timed, using the in-game timer (Journal) or using manual timing?
The problem here is that the in-game timer stops whenever you have a panel open on the left side (Pet menu, Character menu, Vendor menu) and right side (Skill menu, inventory) the camera zooms in on your character in the middle and the game is paused. The in-game timer stops while you do this. Thus a player could do all the inventory management he wants while the game is paused, resulting in a shorter in-game time, but most likely a longer overall time

*: Depends on the timing issue mentioned above
**: I read about a bug with the Dual Wielding skill over at the official forum (can´t find it anymore, damn Oo), basically they said if Dual Wielding is levelled before Martial Weapons Expertise, you don´t get the full damage.

* Rane is still contemplating the FRAPS purchase. :-)
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
If you do gaming a lot I suggest you buy fraps it will help you later to explain tricks or whatever, if you only want to record this game and nothing else then meh. I haven't tried other skills but I can vouch for slash, its awesome and could play with it at level 1 for most of the game, later had to start leveling it because it stopped doing enough damage per swing.

If the ingame timer is accurate it is usually used, inventory management while important and all is ok to leave out of the run and many games do. While it might be abusing the mechanic when you do management in only one panel but having both open there are plenty of cases where you do want to manage your character on both panels, like when you level up or want to move stuff to your pet.
Amateur Runner
Yeah, I play a lot of games, but I´m usually more on the multiplayer side of things, still, might be a worthy investment.

I´ll see if I can make a run through in a decent time (sub 1:45, maybe even 1:40 ) before I get into anything serious. At the moment I´m still screwing up too many things (get lost in some parts due to map-segments never seen before, picking up too many items, stuff like that) and it would look really amateurish.

About Slash:
I searched a bit on the Runic Games forum, and I found out the difference to Soul Rend:
Slash (and Devastate) use the damage of both weapons combined, while all other Skills (e.g. Soul Rend) use only one weapon (right hand is often mentioned, but I´m not sure if they mean the right inventory slot or the right hand (guy is facing the screen in inventory menu)). In the beginning of the game the added damage from Soul Rend makes the total damage higher than that of Slash, but with more powerful weapons Slash takes over as the better single-target damage skill.
Amateur Runner
Okay, got my first successful run through:
Real time: 2 hours 3 minutes
In-Game time: 1 hour 29 minutes 4x seconds (Ordrak falls, journal timer immediately after I regained control)

(The large time difference between real time and game time comes from 2 factors: 38 loading screens, each taking at least 12 seconds and rather massive inventory-pause abuse on my part, that will have to be trimmed down quite a bit.)

Statwise i pumped everything into strength, except for 3 levelups, where i needed some points in DEX/DEF to equip superior gear.

One important thing was that I reached level 25 in the room directly before the fight with Master Alric, which means I had Devastate available for both him and Ordrak. It cuts them apart really well. (Don´t hold the mouse button, tap it repeatedly, that way it hits about double as fast as Slash... with more damage!)

I was also rather lucky to find Haste I in the Orden Mines and Haste II in the estorian ruins, I learned both and put 4 points into Defensive Skill Mastery, to boost the duration.
On the other hand, i found no items that increase movement speed naturally. (blue armors, unique helmet unique/set boots, unique gloves are the ones i encountered so far, each with 5% more move speed)

So, i just purchased FRAPS and hopefully I´ll be able to produce something for you guys in the next few days.
Amateur Runner
Got my third successful run, and this time I recorded it, so I now have ~150GB of crappy gameplay on my external disk. :-)

Real time: 1 hour 53 minutes
In-Game time: 1 hour 27 minutes 3x seconds

What went well:
+ Found lots of unique items that I can use, including 2 unique weapons and a shoulder piece with 5% movement speed increase

What went not so well:
+ No haste spells
+ Got lost in a few segments, still have not memorised them all (from both directions)
+ Got nervous because of recording and screwed up lots of inventory stuff and generally bad mouse control
+ had potion problems in the first 2 and the last tileset, luckily I found a vendor that sells potions right before Alric´s room, so no town trip was necessary

For a short glimpse of how this would look like:
(Last 10 minutes of the run, some powerlevelling in the Black Palace and the Ordrak fight)

(Sorry for the very bad quality, still having a little trouble with the encoding, and I have to wipe the current run so that I have disk-space for the next attempt)

I´m still not sure about the general strategy of the run, at the moment I see 2 possibilities:
1. Powerlevel to level 25, kill Master Alric and Ordrak with Devastate
2. Go into the end-fights severely underlevelled (level 18-21 maybe?) and skip most of the Black Palace and maybe even the dwarven fortress with Haste. The problem with this way is that the Ordrak fight takes massively longer, and there is the very real possibility of dying (I guess with level 18 the fight would take at least 6 minutes, lots of time to get instakilled by his fireballs or the dragonkin). I guess this would be the better route for a segmented run, where you can manipulate some great gear to offset the level difference, and you can try Ordrak as often as you want.

Also, I have found a nice trick for the Ordrak fight when not using devastate: When the skeletons come, let them come near and keep whacking Ordrak, and when they reach you just aim 2 or 3 Stampedes at Ordrak. It kills the skeletons off and you don´t stop damaging him.