Top 5 systems ever made?

mikwuyma

2007-02-04 07:02:53 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote:

(I'm of the opinion the genesis wins out here, but i'm not helping matters by doing a run on "Dark Castle")

I think to balance this out someone needs to do a run of Captain Novolin.

stanski

2007-02-04 07:05:08 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

Hey, Rael. I see we're riding the same bandwagon, for once. Wink

And...

That, right there, is hypocrisy.

Now, I'm gracefully going to exit stage left and vascillate my play time with Genesis and N64, both of which I love, to absolve myself from these bitter rumblings. Har har...

Its not hypocrisy when it is the truth... give me a genre with more then 5 good games in it on the N64 besides the 2 I listed. Have fun.

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2007-02-04 07:16:36 am

2007-02-04 07:13:52 am

Not going to school today

I love how a completely subjective thing like "what a good game is" can be turned into something that's factual on a video game forum. I think Super Mario 64 sucks. I don't like playing it. Many people will disagree with me, and say it's one of the best games of all time. That doesn't make me wrong (or them right), because it's all opinion. If we were measuring something substantial, like number of units sold, then this pointless bickering would have a reason.

Oh yeah:

1- NES
2- Atari 2600
3- PS2
4- Genesis
5- Game Boy (or whatever handheld is the bombest)

I think I've established that my reasons are irrelevant.

And stanski, you missed "Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday" in your list of Genesis RPGs. I sniffled.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-02-04 07:26:29 am

2007-02-04 07:23:56 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Haha, ok, we don't have to bring up all the worst games from the genesis.

From sega-16: Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday is perhaps the only game in the world that I honestly, truly hate. I'm not talking about a strong dislike, either. I mean a seething, burning hatred, the kind that keeps your soul from moving on to the next world after you die. It wasn't the mediocre early PC-like graphics, the tinny sound, or stupid character animation (that walk!). No, it wasn't any of that. I can learn to live with sloppy presentation, so long as the gameplay is solid. That, my friend, is where Buck Rogers fails miserably. How on Earth anyone could create an RPG where any character that dies in battle remains dead for the rest of the game is simply beyond my comprehension. I had a character die within the first hour of play and had to drag his corpse throughout the adventure up until the last boss battle, which was of course, impossible, given that I was one character short. It's a pity, as the game does have a few redeeming qualities, just not enough to take it off my shit list- which it has been on since 1993.

The reason i'm arguing is it pisses me off that nintendo fanboys have inundated everyone with "the genesis has no good games" and genesis fanboys have inundated us with "there are no good snes games." There are good titles to be had on both, and you have to actually PLAY the games before you judge them, not go on what you hear 10 years later after the fact.

Haha, ok, we don't have to bring up all the worst games from the genesis.

From sega-16: Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday is perhaps the only game in the world that I honestly, truly hate. I'm not talking about a strong dislike, either. I mean a seething, burning hatred, the kind that keeps your soul from moving on to the next world after you die. It wasn't the mediocre early PC-like graphics, the tinny sound, or stupid character animation (that walk!). No, it wasn't any of that. I can learn to live with sloppy presentation, so long as the gameplay is solid. That, my friend, is where Buck Rogers fails miserably. How on Earth anyone could create an RPG where any character that dies in battle remains dead for the rest of the game is simply beyond my comprehension. I had a character die within the first hour of play and had to drag his corpse throughout the adventure up until the last boss battle, which was of course, impossible, given that I was one character short. It's a pity, as the game does have a few redeeming qualities, just not enough to take it off my shit list- which it has been on since 1993.

The reason i'm arguing is it pisses me off that nintendo fanboys have inundated everyone with "the genesis has no good games" and genesis fanboys have inundated us with "there are no good snes games." There are good titles to be had on both, and you have to actually PLAY the games before you judge them, not go on what you hear 10 years later after the fact.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2007-02-04 07:29:30 am

2007-02-04 07:24:53 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Quote:

Its not hypocrisy when it is the truth... give me a genre with more then 5 good games in it on the N64 besides the 2 I listed. Have fun.

Actually, it IS a hypocrisy to attack with the same argument as the opponents' for which you criticized them. I'm not disputing the "truth" of your belief (although, most anyone could); that's another matter.

Party games, flight shooters (rogue squadrons, starfox), action (is this what you'd call zelda?), puzzlers, racing, and (I know this will sound like a cop-out) miscellaneous.

Btw, stanski, I also agree the Genesis was superior to the SNES (and most other systems out there, though I couldn't place it in a list at the moment in relation to N64), but I'm not going to pretend like there are logical arguments for it which do not rely on some sort of tautologically-justified personal preference.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-02-04 07:38:49 am

2007-02-04 07:28:52 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

Actually, it IS a hypocrisy to attack with the same argument as the opponents' for which you criticized them. I'm not disputing the "truth" of your belief (although, most anyone could); that's another matter.

Party games, flight shooters (rogue squadrons, starfox), action (is this what you'd call zelda?), puzzlers, racing, and (I know this will sound like a cop-out) miscellaneous.

I'll argue the point, just to be an ass and defend my stance:

Party games: Mario party, bomberman. Anything else here? (mario kart 64 is a racing game. SSB is a fighting game.)

Racing games: Mario kart 64 and diddy kong racing. Any others?

Puzzlers-tetrisphere. Dr. mario 64 is basically a souped up dr. mario. Any others?

Flight shooters: Rogue squad 1, 2, starfox. Any others?

Action RPG: zelda, zelda. Any others?

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2007-02-04 07:51:02 am

2007-02-04 07:40:45 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

First of all, what I said about hypocrisy still stands.

And anyway, why would you exclude games like Mario Tennis, Starfox, Mario Kart, etc. from party games? And, anyway again, the three Mario Party games and two or three Bomberman games, alone, equal five or more.

Hmmm... I suppose the flight shooting remains at three, then. I can't think of any other significant entries.
That's really all of the action games you could think of? What about Jet Force Gemini, Sin and Punishment, Conker's Bad Fur Day (not a Mario clone), Smash Brothers, etc.

Racing: What about F-zero X (and the DD expansion, for those who could enjoy it) or excitebike64? San Fran Rush and San Fran Rush 2049? Wave Race?

Oh, and by the way, I think demanding five great games in one genre is a bit demanding for more than say five genres. I don't think it's ever been done that one console had five great games in EVERY genre, for instance, and we've now established several genres which actually did qualify for the N64, anyway.

First of all, what I said about hypocrisy still stands.

And anyway, why would you exclude games like Mario Tennis, Starfox, Mario Kart, etc. from party games? And, [i]anyway again[/i], the three Mario Party games and two or three Bomberman games, alone, equal five or more.

Hmmm... I suppose the flight shooting remains at three, then.  I can't think of any other significant entries.  
That's really all of the action games you could think of?  What about Jet Force Gemini, Sin and Punishment, Conker's Bad Fur Day (not a Mario clone), Smash Brothers,  etc.

Racing: What about F-zero X (and the DD expansion, for those who could enjoy it) or excitebike64?  San Fran Rush and San Fran Rush 2049?  Wave Race?

Oh, and by the way, I think demanding five great games in one genre is a bit demanding for more than say five genres.   I don't think it's ever been done that one console had five great games in EVERY genre, for instance, and we've now established several genres which actually did qualify for the N64, anyway.

Lucid Faia

2007-02-04 07:43:29 am

Yeah, I said it.

Quote:

Its not hypocrisy when it is the truth... give me a genre with more then 5 good games in it on the N64 besides the 2 I listed. Have fun.

Racing: Mario Kart 64, Diddy Kong Racing, F-Zero X, Wave Race 64, Excitebike 64
Sports: WWF No Mercy, Wrestlemania 2000, Mario Tennis, 1080 Snowboarding, Mario Golf
Action/Adventure: Castlevania 64 (one of the most underrated games ever), Gauntlet Legends, Ocarina, Majora, Mischief Makers

...To say nothing of Harvest Moon 64, Battle Tanx, Star Fox 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Turok 2, Pokemon Puzzle League, Ogre Battle 64, Blast Corps, Paper Mario, Shadows of the Empire, etc...

Your lack of experience with a console is not indicative of the quality of that console's game library.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2007-02-04 07:53:23 am

2007-02-04 07:46:33 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Thanks for the alley oop, Lucid Faia.

Stanski, this is really not the direction you're going to want to take this argument. Come on; this is silly.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-02-04 08:07:17 am

2007-02-04 08:04:33 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Alright, since i don't remember why i'm arguing about the n64, i'll stop. I will say that sports games shouldn't count, and that some of the games mentioned are a bit of a stretch/cross platforms (i.e. i can claim a ton of games are mario clones), but i suppose that can be said of most games. For the record, i only owned an n64, never had a ps1.

Ok, I swear i'm not arguing now, lets move on in this topic.

trihex

2007-02-04 08:20:38 am

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

Do we have to? I was waiting for someone to argue about the quality of the PS2 and be forced to name 15 (sounds about right in terms of proportion) good games for the same 5 genres...

Tongue

Rael

2007-02-04 08:42:07 am

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In its time though, these games WERE popular and DID have an impact. Before the snes (I realize I was also very very young at this time, so I'm going on what my brother tells me and from reading), 1990-1993, the genesis came along and brought in a huge variety of new genres, ports of great arcade games, and some great classics. Now, my contention is that they still affected how games were produced for systems to come. Herzog Zwei, while you may not have heard of it, is the first real time strategy game on console. The shooters in the genesis library are literally legendary. People STILL think NHL '94 is the best Hockey game of all time, 13 years later!

Then it's a shame herzog zwei has been forgotten, at least as far as I have seen. However, I think that supports my point. Remember, I'm not arguing the genesis didn't have good games or wasn't revolutionary, rather today the SNES is viewed more so that way today. As for shooters and sports games, I can't really comment on that as those of my two least favorite genres and thus I have had the little experience with them.

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Now, my contention is that there are just not nearly as many sega fans on this site as nintendo fans and p.c. fans. The genesis/sega cd has 24 runs on the site currently (a few more if you consider GBA ports) compared to 32 SNES. I would say both have an equal variety of games, and its just a matter of opinion who has the greater majority of great games (I'm of the opinion the genesis wins out here, but i'm not helping matters by doing a run on "Dark Castle")There really aren't even many ps1 fans, judged by the fact that the ps1 and n64 currently have the same number of runs on the site. Clearly, the n64 had more of a quality over quantity library than the ps1, but there are many many more high quality ps1 games than n64 games. Get any reasonable judge here, and they can verify that (I will wholeheartedly admit that, having owned only an n64 during these system's primes).

Why should we not include GBA ports? We are arguing over genesis games, not the system itself, right (though your next paragraph does delve into the latter a little)? Moreover, regarding the ratio of genesis games to snes games on, I wouldn't argue the current number of genesis runs is low. First off, toy story and pitfall were run on genesis, but are listed under snes. Second, though snes runs outnumber genesis runs, I would say that is not evidence the number of genesis runs in itself is low and thus the number of sega fans is low. As for the number of n64 games, remember body harvest, bomberman 64, bomberman hero, chameleon twist, jet force gemini, mission impossible, quest 64, shadow man, turok, and turok 2 were all run by marshmallow. Does that not provide evidence that the ratio of runs on this site is not directly linked to the opinions of the members? As for PS1 games, a possible answer is some of the system's more popular games, its rpgs, are either too long for the site or are taking much time and effort to produce (e.g. the final fantasies)

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...you have to actually PLAY the games before you judge them, not go on what you hear 10 years later after the fact.

Ideally, yes. However, given limited resources even with emulation, at some point a person has to make a judgment of a game without playing it. Otherwise, we would expect video game sales to be random.

[quote]

In its time though, these games WERE popular and DID have an impact. Before the snes (I realize I was also very very young at this time, so I'm going on what my brother tells me and from reading), 1990-1993, the genesis came along and brought in a huge variety of new genres, ports of great arcade games, and some great classics. Now, my contention is that they still affected how games were produced for systems to come. Herzog Zwei, while you may not have heard of it, is the first real time strategy game on console. The shooters in the genesis library are literally legendary. People STILL think NHL '94 is the best Hockey game of all time, 13 years later![/quote]

Then it's a shame herzog zwei has been forgotten, at least as far as I have seen.  However, I think that supports my point.  Remember, I'm not arguing the genesis didn't have good games or wasn't revolutionary, rather today the SNES is viewed more so that way today.  As for shooters and sports games, I can't really comment on that as those of my two least favorite genres and thus I have had the little experience with them.

[quote]Now, my contention is that there are just not nearly as many sega fans on this site as nintendo fans and p.c. fans. The genesis/sega cd has 24 runs on the site currently (a few more if you consider GBA ports) compared to 32 SNES. I would say both have an equal variety of games, and its just a matter of opinion who has the greater majority of great games (I'm of the opinion the genesis wins out here, but i'm not helping matters by doing a run on "Dark Castle")There really aren't even many ps1 fans, judged by the fact that the ps1 and n64 currently have the same number of runs on the site. Clearly, the n64 had more of a quality over quantity library than the ps1, but there are many many more high quality ps1 games than n64 games. Get any reasonable judge here, and they can verify that (I will wholeheartedly admit that, having owned only an n64 during these system's primes). [/quote]

Why should we not include GBA ports?  We are arguing over genesis games, not the system itself, right (though your next paragraph does delve into the latter a little)?  Moreover, regarding the ratio of genesis games to snes games on, I wouldn't argue the current number of genesis runs is low.  First off, toy story and pitfall were run on genesis, but are listed under snes.  Second, though snes runs outnumber genesis runs, I would say that is not evidence the number of genesis runs in itself is low and thus the number of sega fans is low.  As for the number of n64 games, remember body harvest, bomberman 64, bomberman hero, chameleon twist, jet force gemini, mission impossible, quest 64, shadow man, turok, and turok 2 were all run by marshmallow.    Does that not provide evidence that the ratio of runs on this site is not directly linked to the opinions of the members?  As for PS1 games, a possible answer is some of the system's more popular games, its rpgs, are either too long for the site or are taking much time and effort to produce (e.g. the final fantasies)

[quote]...you have to actually PLAY the games before you judge them, not go on what you hear 10 years later after the fact. [/quote]
Ideally, yes.  However, given limited resources even with emulation, at some point a person has to make a judgment of a game without playing it.  Otherwise, we would expect video game sales to be random.

Mkt2015

2007-02-04 12:32:20 pm

MGS for PS1 forever.

Just my 2 cents here. I do enjoy Mario 64, but I hate the fact that as soon as it was released or as soon as Zelda was released those would be the top games for months and months on end in Nintendo Power. I actually got a chuckle out of some comments from the editors since they'd have to come up with yet another little sentence for the 80th month that Link's Awakening was #1. Same with Mario 64.

Considering that I'm a FF guy, the battle between SNES and genesis is essentially FF vs Phantasy Star. I'm saying this not because mario vs sonic isn't important but because they are equal. I have just as much fondness of sonic as I have of mario and while I have to admit that I might have played a Phantasy Star game for about 5 minutes or less, I'm pretty sure that FF is more popular than Phantasy Star. FF VII being one of the top 5 reasons why PS1 did so well. SNES had FF is it did well and then the PS1, PS2 and so on. The gamecube got Crystal Chronicles which is considered a bastard child of FF. And then, bam, you get the remakes for GBA.

I'll stop there so I don't get into the whole pokemon thing.

Just my 2 cents here. I do enjoy Mario 64, but I hate the fact that as soon as it was released or as soon as Zelda was released those would be the top games for months and months on end in Nintendo Power. I actually got a chuckle out of some comments from the editors since they'd have to come up with yet another little sentence for the 80th month that Link's Awakening was #1. Same with Mario 64.

Considering that I'm a FF guy, the battle between SNES and genesis is essentially FF vs Phantasy Star. I'm saying this not because mario vs sonic isn't important but because they are equal. I have just as much fondness of sonic as I have of mario and while I have to admit that I might have played a Phantasy Star game for about 5 minutes or less, I'm pretty sure that FF is more popular than Phantasy Star. FF VII being one of the top 5 reasons why PS1 did so well. SNES had FF is it did well and then the PS1, PS2 and so on. The gamecube got Crystal Chronicles which is considered a bastard child of FF. And then, bam, you get the remakes for GBA.

I'll stop there so I don't get into the whole pokemon thing.

Lag.Com

2007-02-04 12:51:56 pm

sda loyalist

Crystal Chronicles is great, it's like a cross between Final Fantasy IX (which has a fantastic game world and style) and Blaze & Blade (old 4-player PS1 RPG). If not for the annoying 'everyone needs a GBA and a GBA-GC link cable' thing, it would be much more popular as a party game.

Can anyone name a SNES game that looks as good as Alien Soldier? Gunstar Heroes?

Da Dood

2007-02-04 01:05:35 pm

Dood Trigger™

The SNES always had a greater amount of games I love, and the fact that my favorite gaming series were mostly Nintendo-licensed back then (Mario, Donkey Kong, Mega Man) only helped.

But I've always wanted a Genesis. It was the dream console, one I'd visit friends for, intending to play Sonic for a whole afternoon. Even though not necessarily gospel, Sonic felt much more sophisticated than Mario whenever I played it. I loved the physics, the high jumps, the many hidden passages, visuals, music and Robotnik's appearances. I went back to Super Mario World with a big frown and anticipated the next chance I'd have to play Sonic again.

With that said, now I don't see why I felt that way. Sonic is still awesome, but lacks the subtle complexity that makes Mario titles so special (from being able to rack up lives jumping on enemies to entertaining power-ups that bring so much identity to those games, like the cape). Despite the massive 'you suck lol' cloud forming right above my head, I simply can't enjoy anything other than Sonic, Hard Corps and Gunstar Heroes -- and the last two are strongly reminiscent of Contra III, one of the finest games ever created. But then, I was never fond of the Genesis beat 'em ups and I'm not a fan of RPGs, so I guess I'm missing some of the system's main gems.

The SNES always had a greater amount of games I love, and the fact that my favorite gaming series were mostly Nintendo-licensed back then (Mario, Donkey Kong, Mega Man) only helped.

But I've always wanted a Genesis. It was the dream console, one I'd visit friends for, intending to play Sonic for a whole afternoon. Even though not necessarily gospel, Sonic felt much more sophisticated than Mario whenever I played it. I loved the physics, the high jumps, the many hidden passages, visuals, music and Robotnik's appearances. I went back to Super Mario World with a big frown and anticipated the next chance I'd have to play Sonic again.

With that said, now I don't see why I felt that way. Sonic is still awesome, but lacks the subtle complexity that makes Mario titles so special (from being able to rack up lives jumping on enemies to entertaining power-ups that bring so much identity to those games, like the cape). Despite the massive 'you suck lol' cloud forming right above my head, I simply can't enjoy anything other than Sonic, Hard Corps and Gunstar Heroes -- and the last two are strongly reminiscent of Contra III, one of the finest games ever created. But then, I was never fond of the Genesis beat 'em ups and I'm not a fan of RPGs, so I guess I'm missing some of the system's main gems.

Da Dood

2007-02-04 01:08:43 pm

Dood Trigger™

Quote:

Can anyone name a SNES game that looks as good as Alien Soldier? Gunstar Heroes?

O.O
Donkey Kong Country 2? Yoshi's Island?
Heck, I find Yoshi's Island more visually appealing than most current-gen games... =Þ

BlueGlass

2007-02-04 04:03:05 pm

Yep yep yep!

It makes me very sad that no one's mentioned Ecco and Ecco 2 yet.

stanski

2007-02-04 07:25:47 pm

wise fwom yo gwave

Well, I nearly mentioned them, but most people make a joke of those games because they've never played them and they are about a dolphin.

I think DKC is overrated as far as visuals go. There were games that looked just as good on the genesis. I will say that games of that era did have 2d graphics that were just as good or better than graphics up until the dreamcast/ps2 era.

Lucid Faia

2007-02-04 07:27:14 pm

Yeah, I said it.

I could easily give over 200 reasons why the SNES is the best system ever. Grin

OLOW

2007-02-04 08:21:50 pm

contact= Baseballkvb1@co mcast.net

Yeah, id have to agree, SNES And N64 are very good systems

ZMA

2007-02-16 02:21:01 am

5 ps1 (ff7.8.9)
4 snes (alttp)
3 ps2 (kingdom hearts)
2 nes (mega man)
1 N64 (oot)

Hitaro

2007-02-16 02:38:24 am

Quote:

I could easily give over 200 reasons why the SNES is the best system ever. Grin

Please list them.

AjAX

2007-02-16 02:48:09 am

I think 20 would be less painful.

pony16

2007-02-16 04:38:38 am

wow, i can't believe ps2 (and even ps3!) are making people's lists.

1. SNES
2. NES
3. N64
4. Game Boy
5. GCN

Honorable Mention:
Atari 2600

Lazylen

2007-02-16 04:42:46 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote:

wow, i can't believe ps2 (and even ps3!) are making people's lists.

1. SNES
2. NES
3. N64
4. Game Boy
5. GCN

Honorable Mention:
Atari 2600

the PS2 wasn't that great of a system by itself, but oh lord does it have great games. it has goads of them, and if someone can't recognize that, they're blind.

The ps3 might start making people's lists in a few years once some Final Fantasy comes out for it.