Tony Hawk's Underground 1

2012-09-10 12:52:16 pm

A little update. I watched again and analyzed Nonsense88's run. After that I decided to turn off auto-kick for the first time since I stoped playing Tony Hawk games with a keyboard (about 5 years ago). The reason is that you lose about 2-3 seconds when you start a flatland combo, because usually you have to stop before you do a manual and I do flatlands for pretty much every mission that involves scoring, cause you can get 30 000 points in like 5 seconds, and on Beginner you don't need much than that for most part of the run. Also auto-kick off makes "do the tricks" missions easier because you just do the required gap, then just stop, do all tricks while manualing until the time the last trick shows up, then just land it. The downside is that it's pretty hard to get used to hold an extra button every time you want to move forward. I also learned some harder strats, but I must practice them a little bit. I think once I will be good at them, I can easily shave off at least 3 minutes off my time, if not more.

I also have a small question: anybody know how to do the jump in collecting mission in New Jersey in chapter 3? You can see it in Nonsense88's run at about 5:10 in the video. I can't get it to work and it saves about 5 seconds.

A little update. I watched again and analyzed Nonsense88's run. After that I decided to turn off auto-kick for the first time since I stoped playing Tony Hawk games with a keyboard (about 5 years ago). The reason is that you lose about 2-3 seconds when you start a flatland combo, because usually you have to stop before you do a manual and I do flatlands for pretty much every mission that involves scoring, cause you can get 30 000 points in like 5 seconds, and on Beginner you don't need much than that for most part of the run. Also auto-kick off makes "do the tricks" missions easier because you just do the required gap, then just stop, do all tricks while manualing until the time the last trick shows up, then just land it. The downside is that it's pretty hard to get used to hold an extra button every time you want to move forward. I also learned some harder strats, but I must practice them a little bit. I think once I will be good at them, I can easily shave off at least 3 minutes off my time, if not more.

I also have a small question: anybody know how to do the jump in collecting mission in New Jersey in chapter 3? You can see it in Nonsense88's run at about 5:10 in the video. I can't get it to work and it saves about 5 seconds.

HARRY ROUSE

2012-09-10 03:26:57 pm

9397 = power level

I've probably completed this game more than any full retail game, I'd love to see a run but I could never speedrun it, good luck to you guys.

AlecK47

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2012-09-10 07:18:53 pm

2012-09-10 07:17:26 pm

Quote from Fusik:

I also have a small question: anybody know how to do the jump in collecting mission in New Jersey in chapter 3? You can see it in Nonsense88's run at about 5:10 in the video. I can't get it to work and it saves about 5 seconds.

The one across the street, right? Hard to say, but if I were to try that, I would do a boneless while holding right and just catch the vert part of the roof. You can get crazy lateral momentum doing that kind of thing. Then just get off your board at the right time to get an additional vertical boost. Seems quite precise to me though...

Edit: To clarify, not the part of the roof that would make you actually vert, but just below it.

Cheater_Hater

2012-09-14 09:48:45 pm

*sigh* another ~52 run--I have no idea how I'm ever going to get a clean-enough run to get sub-50. My most noticeably bad section is San Diego in general, and I'm seriously wondering if I could be missing something there:
I'm doing the flip photos instead of the grab photos because they seem faster, especially if you consider the menu manipulation--is there something obvious I'm missing?
Skipping the chick goal in part 2 seems like a certainty--driving and it's like three separate goals, one of which is Skate Tricks
Flyers I probably should be doubling back to get the one in back first, but that goal all comes down to luck (if you can easily hit the flyer in the tunnel)
Is there a guaranteed way to double back and air onto the other tower so I don't have to climb the ladder again to Acid Drop it
Should I go Guitar-Vocals-Bass-Drums or Guitar-Drums-Bass-Vocals?
I'm still doing Gear Back over Posse since finding the people seems like it would take longer than 30 seconds

Vancouver 1 also seems to be really slow (but then again that's just long)--I really need to get a time for Race the Blowcart, and see if it's competitive with Flatland or Tom's Part.

I should also test Kill Wallows vs Luau Comp in Hawaii 2.

*sigh* another ~52 run--I have no idea how I'm ever going to get a clean-enough run to get sub-50.  My most noticeably bad section is San Diego in general, and I'm seriously wondering if I could be missing something there:
I'm doing the flip photos instead of the grab photos because they seem faster, especially if you consider the menu manipulation--is there something obvious I'm missing?
Skipping the chick goal in part 2 seems like a certainty--driving and it's like three separate goals, one of which is Skate Tricks
Flyers I probably should be doubling back to get the one in back first, but that goal all comes down to luck (if you can easily hit the flyer in the tunnel)
Is there a guaranteed way to double back and air onto the other tower so I don't have to climb the ladder again to Acid Drop it
Should I go Guitar-Vocals-Bass-Drums or Guitar-Drums-Bass-Vocals?
I'm still doing Gear Back over Posse since finding the people seems like it would take longer than 30 seconds

Vancouver 1 also seems to be really slow (but then again that's just long)--I really need to get a time for Race the Blowcart, and see if it's competitive with Flatland or Tom's Part.

I should also test Kill Wallows vs Luau Comp in Hawaii 2.

Fusik

2012-09-15 04:26:40 am

From my route: flip photos is indeed faster than grab photos. The mission with chicks is slow, i don't do it. Flyers is just good angle. If you go 45 degrees you can wallplant them. I don't think you can skip climbing the ladder, you lose too much speed. I personally do Guitar-Drums-Bass-Vocals, but it's only a few second difference I think. I also do Gear Back over Posse. Race the Blowcart is really slow if you can do the 2 other goals quickly. Kill Wallows vs Luau Comp - competition is faster if you do very fast flatlands, but Kill Wallows should be worth it if you figure out the quickest route.

BTW, I still can't do this stupid jump Cry

But whatever, I'll do some runs without it sometime soon. And fun fact: you can do quick drop off rails on PS2 by pressing R2 while grinding, but for some freaking reason you can't do it any way on GameCube Angry

Cheater_Hater

2012-09-15 12:35:21 pm

Finally got W-split and did a run with splits, picture is attached--it seems like some goals are random with rather I can do them fast or not. I took multiple tries for the Wallows Combo Bowls, Spine over the wall in Moscow, and the Hawaii spine challenge, and that wasted a ton of time--is there any way I can do them consistently? (other than actually get the stats for Spining over the wall--I did Ready for Battle before Blind Big Brother this run, and that means I didn't get the speed boosts I would have gotten from that grind and then needed to actually combo in the halfpipe :/

Attachment:

THUG Beginner NG 1.png

Fusik

2012-09-16 03:44:20 am

Wallows Combo sucks sometimes, because of the angle. Sometimes I get 1st try, and sometimes 5th, so I can't help you with this mission. Spine over the wall is easy for me, just start the goal, boneless and after about a second hit spine transfer. If you do it too fast, you will fail it. Hawaii spine challenge is also very easy for me: acid drop on the first one, and then boneless up the high wall and press spine transfer button very late, for the third one just spine transfer down, and if you're not straight ahead of the fourth one, get off the board to reduce speed and then just spine the last one.

Cheater_Hater

2012-09-16 06:11:01 pm

Just got a sub-50 run--unfortunately I don't have an exact timing (since I was doing the run precisely because I needed to rest my computer), but I think it was even sub-48:30 Smiley

Everything went surprisingly well too--most notable stroke of luck was that Do all the tricks in Jersey 2 had a ton of duplicates (I think there were something like 5 Varial Kickflips and 3 Varial Invert to Fakie, among others) and only three unique lip tricks (that all worked first try, without grinding out of the halfpipe). There's still some minor execution points to be sure (Wallplant fliers still sucks, Wallows was second try, and I misclicked into Posse to lose a couple seconds among others), but at least I now know sub-50 is possible Smiley

George

2012-09-22 09:20:16 pm

Quote from Fusik:

And fun fact: you can do quick drop off rails on PS2 by pressing R2 while grinding, but for some freaking reason you can't do it any way on GameCube Angry

It's literally how the game is coded. That line of code is only present in the PS2 version. Though it's easy enough to mod it into the PC versions by just copying the PS2 code into the appropriate file, I doubt anyone wise to the mod would allow it for a speedrun. I see it as more of a level playing field, though--all versions of the game are virtually identical in the first place.

Nice to see someone putting real work into this game. Most of these goal choices seem to be in line with what I was doing a couple years ago, but the lower difficulties are mostly foreign to me, so I don't know where and how the goal differences show up.

I've been too busy to work on THPS4 much at all. I'm not even sure if I can manage to make it to AGDQ at this point anyway unfortunately. We'll see.

Nonsense

2012-10-11 10:08:00 am

I'm using autokick off mainly out of habit, but there are some valid reasons to use it in addition to the things that have been mentioned already:
1. With autokick on your speed will reduce while doing a manual. This doesn't happen with autokick off. It's a small reduction but can make a difference if you have to do a long manual.
2. It makes it easier to do those trick list goals as you can easily keep still without having to hold down when landing each trick.

The jump I did in New Jersey is a glitch called buttslap, you can watch a tutorial here

It's not something you're likely to nail everytime as it reguires good timing, so don't rely on it too much in your run. I only found a few useful places for it anyway.

Fusik

2012-10-11 11:14:42 am

Wow, huge thanks. I've seen this glitch few times but never accually knew what is this and how to do it. I will try to learn it sometime when I'll have some time. Will you ever come back to this game? It would be great to see a sick difficulty run on the site.

Nonsense

2012-10-11 01:18:51 pm

I'd like to, but I don't really have the extra time or money. Maybe some day if I can find some decent capturing equipment for a low price... I'm probably pretty rusty too so it would take a few weekends to get some results.

Chrno

Edit history:

Chrno: 2012-10-11 01:23:27 pm

2012-10-11 01:23:16 pm

WOW.

Quote from Nonsense:

I'm using autokick off mainly out of habit, but there are some valid reasons to use it in addition to the things that have been mentioned already:
1. With autokick on your speed will reduce while doing a manual. This doesn't happen with autokick off. It's a small reduction but can make a difference if you have to do a long manual.
2. It makes it easier to do those trick list goals as you can easily keep still without having to hold down when landing each trick.

The jump I did in New Jersey is a glitch called buttslap, you can watch a tutorial here

It's not something you're likely to nail everytime as it reguires good timing, so don't rely on it too much in your run. I only found a few useful places for it anyway.

Could you do that over the bridge in New Jersey? My theory is that the gap you get when you jump over it acts as a trigger to load the fourth chapter.

Cheater_Hater

2012-10-11 04:32:50 pm

Quote from Chrno:

Could you do that over the bridge in New Jersey? My theory is that the gap you get when you jump over it acts as a trigger to load the fourth chapter.

I don't think it would--I think the gap just triggers the end of the first goal in chapter 3, and that loads the next set of goals and removes the cops.

Fusik

2012-10-12 09:32:40 am

I just tested it. I started a new game and enabled moon gravity cheat. Then in chapter 1 i skitched a car and tried few angles. Unfortunately there is no way the gap will count, because I think the trigger for the gap is a little ramp that spawns only during the mission. Few times I was high above the police cars (it would count during the mission) and I was caught and teleported back. I even once made it to the other side with a well angled jump (landed on the grass to the left on another side), but there was no missions on the other side. So I don't think your theory is right Cry

DarkShibara

2013-10-26 02:16:31 pm

I Speedrun Games No One Else Does...

Chrno should return back to this thread rather than focusing on THUG 2. This game deserves a place on he SDA Archive.

Takedown47

2014-01-20 01:46:03 pm

Does people still running this game ? Just got my first run on normal with 1:23, pretty bad but first run and without routing ;P Who got a better time ?

AustX

Edit history:

AustX: 2014-01-31 01:23:30 pm

2014-01-31 01:16:06 pm

I heart Katamari

IMA RUN THIS SHIT

If anyone else wants too as well, that is. I really love this game and have wanted to see a run for a long time.

WILL I BE THE FIRST THUG RUN ON SDA? PROBABLY NOT. I HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL APRIL. AND ALSO I HAVE TO GET A CAPTURE CARD. FIND OUT NEXT EPISODEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I just had a caffine explosion.

TheHamman

2014-03-25 04:49:55 am

I got 54 doing a NG+ run on too easy, should i be running it on Beginner? and whats the current record?

AlecK47

2014-03-25 08:57:17 am

IMHO the only difficulties worth running seriously would be Beginner and Sick because they are the fastest and hardest, respectively. Though you could make a pretty good argument for Normal as well just because it's the "default" difficulty.

I'm not sure about records for this game, but you could check The Sunday Sequence Break's website - they have a good collection of WR links there. If nothing else, the 1:04 sick run on the previous page is a good place to start.

One last thing to bear in mind though, is that SDA tries to account for console differences when judging runs, so a really good run on console would still be accepted before a somewhat worse run on PC that ended up faster because of load times and such.

Cheater_Hater

2014-03-25 10:29:27 pm

I got a sub-50 run over a year ago on Beginner (on Gamecube), though I don't think I have a video of it--granted, that was so long ago I don't remember the details besides what I posted here--I couldn't even tell you the route off the top of my head :/

Garrus

2014-03-26 05:12:18 pm

I've been trying to run this game for a little while now. Ended up with two decent any% runs
39:57 on Beginner ( ) and 53:18 on Sick ( )

Cheater_Hater

2014-03-28 09:43:19 pm

And there's the actual good runs Wink

I've been watching them--currently in the middle of the Sick run, but I'll comment on what I've seen so far:
General:
Regarding Eric's final line, I think you had that reversed--doing it would be NG, skipping it would be NG+ (since you can skip it only if you have a completed save already)--no big deal, just a clarification Smiley

Beginner:
Not much I can say here--most of the mistakes here are obvious (your bails obviously, as well as the mess generally in the stranded in Moscow chapter), and the few that aren't are often corrected in the Sick run (notably not cutting through the park while chasing Eric in Chapter 3). The one route change I question is doing the blimp goal in SCJ over the second comp--it seems like the comp might be faster, even with all the comp results. I also thought Nut Vendors in Chapter 4 was faster than the bags, but that one is almost certainly a lot closer.

Sick:
Obviously this run's not as polished as the Beginner run--but it's also a lot harder, especially to do consistently. So far the main thing I think you could do better is with the competitions, and I'm not even sure about that. If you've watched George's THPS4 runs, you may notice with the competitions that he almost always ends them with a trick he has no chance of landing (say, a flatland McTwist)--that's because that game's competition counts an in-progress combo as part of the score (except for the Shipyard comp for some reason). Assuming that's how the THUG engine works (and I'm assuming it does, since you're not actually landing your combos in the comps), that would save a decent chunk of time. Other than that, the main thing I can think of is in "Do All the Tricks", learn the lip transitions--it'll save you a lot of time, assuming you're doing the air tricks first, then the lip tricks in each group. The other general thing I can think of is use Special Manuals more--I think you have to manually assign one to the custom skater, but I don't think it takes that long. You can also choose a Pro for the Florida challenge that has a Special Manual (and a Special Grind or two). Otherwise it looks good, especially considering all the safe choices made.

Overall, good job on both the runs--do you plan on submitting to SDA? I don't think the Sick run is quite SDA quality yet, but I think the Beginner run probably is.

And there's the actual good runs ;)

I've been watching them--currently in the middle of the Sick run, but I'll comment on what I've seen so far:
[b]General:[/b]
Regarding Eric's final line, I think you had that reversed--doing it would be NG, skipping it would be NG+ (since you can skip it only if you have a completed save already)--no big deal, just a clarification :)

[b]Beginner:[/b]
Not much I can say here--most of the mistakes here are obvious (your bails obviously, as well as the mess generally in the stranded in Moscow chapter), and the few that aren't are often corrected in the Sick run (notably not cutting through the park while chasing Eric in Chapter 3).  The one route change I question is doing the blimp goal in SCJ over the second comp--it seems like the comp might be faster, even with all the comp results.  I also thought Nut Vendors in Chapter 4 was faster than the bags, but that one is almost certainly a lot closer.

[b]Sick:[/b]
Obviously this run's not as polished as the Beginner run--but it's also a lot harder, especially to do consistently.  So far the main thing I think you could do better is with the competitions, and I'm not even sure about that.  If you've watched George's THPS4 runs, you may notice with the competitions that he almost always ends them with a trick he has no chance of landing (say, a flatland McTwist)--that's because that game's competition counts an in-progress combo as part of the score (except for the Shipyard comp for some reason).  Assuming that's how the THUG engine works (and I'm assuming it does, since you're not actually landing your combos in the comps), that would save a decent chunk of time.  Other than that, the main thing I can think of is in "Do All the Tricks", learn the lip transitions--it'll save you a lot of time, assuming you're doing the air tricks first, then the lip tricks in each group.  The other general thing I can think of is use Special Manuals more--I think you have to manually assign one to the custom skater, but I don't think it takes that long.  You can also choose a Pro for the Florida challenge that has a Special Manual (and a Special Grind or two).  Otherwise it looks good, especially considering all the safe choices made.

Overall, good job on both the runs--do you plan on submitting to SDA?  I don't think the Sick run is quite SDA quality yet, but I think the Beginner run probably is.

Garrus

2014-03-29 10:52:10 pm

Quote from Cheater_Hater:

General:
Regarding Eric's final line, I think you had that reversed--doing it would be NG, skipping it would be NG+ (since you can skip it only if you have a completed save already)--no big deal, just a clarification Smiley

For sure, makes sense in retrospect heh.

Quote from Cheater_Hater:

Beginner:
Not much I can say here--most of the mistakes here are obvious (your bails obviously, as well as the mess generally in the stranded in Moscow chapter), and the few that aren't are often corrected in the Sick run (notably not cutting through the park while chasing Eric in Chapter 3). The one route change I question is doing the blimp goal in SCJ over the second comp--it seems like the comp might be faster, even with all the comp results. I also thought Nut Vendors in Chapter 4 was faster than the bags, but that one is almost certainly a lot closer.

Yeah, there were some rough patches like what you mentioned along with accidentally selecting the flower box goal twice,costing me a couple seconds. While I agree that the street comp would probably be better suited I don't think the Nut Vendor goal is faster. Unless there's a super quick route I'm unaware of.

Quote from Cheater_Hater:

Sick:
Obviously this run's not as polished as the Beginner run--but it's also a lot harder, especially to do consistently. So far the main thing I think you could do better is with the competitions, and I'm not even sure about that. If you've watched George's THPS4 runs, you may notice with the competitions that he almost always ends them with a trick he has no chance of landing (say, a flatland McTwist)--that's because that game's competition counts an in-progress combo as part of the score (except for the Shipyard comp for some reason). Assuming that's how the THUG engine works (and I'm assuming it does, since you're not actually landing your combos in the comps), that would save a decent chunk of time. Other than that, the main thing I can think of is in "Do All the Tricks", learn the lip transitions--it'll save you a lot of time, assuming you're doing the air tricks first, then the lip tricks in each group. The other general thing I can think of is use Special Manuals more--I think you have to manually assign one to the custom skater, but I don't think it takes that long. You can also choose a Pro for the Florida challenge that has a Special Manual (and a Special Grind or two). Otherwise it looks good, especially considering all the safe choices made.

I'm pretty certain that it works the same, so yeah it would maybe save a couple seconds each time. While I could use special manuals as suggested, I think it's less time consuming to just use the kickflip underflip already provided imo. I also need to improve my manual balance,perhaps find a way to boost stats before the wallplant combo goal to better my chances of getting it first try. But overall I agree with your criticisms.

Quote from Cheater_Hater:

Overall, good job on both the runs--do you plan on submitting to SDA? I don't think the Sick run is quite SDA quality yet, but I think the Beginner run probably is.

Thank you,Cheater_Hater. I'm uncertain of whether or not I'll submit runs. I need to iron out some of the flaws in my Beginner run and upping the quality more before I even consider submitting anything. To be honest with you, I don't even know HOW to submit things since I'm brand new to speedrunning and this site. The sick one was more for fun than anything, but I'll consider practising Sick again after I try another Beginner run.

[quote="Cheater_Hater"][b]General:[/b]
Regarding Eric's final line, I think you had that reversed--doing it would be NG, skipping it would be NG+ (since you can skip it only if you have a completed save already)--no big deal, just a clarification :)[/quote]
For sure, makes sense in retrospect heh.
[quote="Cheater_Hater"][b]Beginner:[/b]
Not much I can say here--most of the mistakes here are obvious (your bails obviously, as well as the mess generally in the stranded in Moscow chapter), and the few that aren't are often corrected in the Sick run (notably not cutting through the park while chasing Eric in Chapter 3).  The one route change I question is doing the blimp goal in SCJ over the second comp--it seems like the comp might be faster, even with all the comp results.  I also thought Nut Vendors in Chapter 4 was faster than the bags, but that one is almost certainly a lot closer.[/quote]
Yeah, there were some rough patches like what you mentioned along with accidentally selecting the flower box goal twice,costing me a couple seconds. While I agree that the street comp would probably be better suited I don't think the Nut Vendor goal is faster. Unless there's a super quick route I'm unaware of.
[quote="Cheater_Hater"][b]Sick:[/b]
Obviously this run's not as polished as the Beginner run--but it's also a lot harder, especially to do consistently.  So far the main thing I think you could do better is with the competitions, and I'm not even sure about that.  If you've watched George's THPS4 runs, you may notice with the competitions that he almost always ends them with a trick he has no chance of landing (say, a flatland McTwist)--that's because that game's competition counts an in-progress combo as part of the score (except for the Shipyard comp for some reason).  Assuming that's how the THUG engine works (and I'm assuming it does, since you're not actually landing your combos in the comps), that would save a decent chunk of time.  Other than that, the main thing I can think of is in "Do All the Tricks", learn the lip transitions--it'll save you a lot of time, assuming you're doing the air tricks first, then the lip tricks in each group.  The other general thing I can think of is use Special Manuals more--I think you have to manually assign one to the custom skater, but I don't think it takes that long.  You can also choose a Pro for the Florida challenge that has a Special Manual (and a Special Grind or two).  Otherwise it looks good, especially considering all the safe choices made.[/quote]
I'm pretty certain that it works the same, so yeah it would maybe save a couple seconds each time. While I could use special manuals as suggested, I think it's less time consuming to just use the kickflip underflip already provided imo. I also need to improve my manual balance,perhaps find a way to boost stats before the wallplant combo goal to better my chances of getting it first try. But overall I agree with your criticisms.
[quote="Cheater_Hater"]Overall, good job on both the runs--do you plan on submitting to SDA?  I don't think the Sick run is quite SDA quality yet, but I think the Beginner run probably is.[/quote]
Thank you,Cheater_Hater. I'm uncertain of whether or not I'll submit runs. I need to iron out some of the flaws in my Beginner run and upping the quality more before I even consider submitting anything. To be honest with you, I don't even know HOW to submit things since I'm brand new to speedrunning and this site. The sick one was more for fun than anything, but I'll consider practising Sick again after I try another Beginner run.

AlecK47

2014-03-31 02:57:57 pm

Nice runs! About the only thing I can add is that I remember 720's over the broadcast station in Moscow being fairly reliable if you do a boneless each time.