Tomb Raider Legend. (Sort of) Finished 54:43

Ewil

2007-06-27 05:22:40 am

Wow, this run is getting fast. Half done. Great runs so far.

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2007-06-27 01:40:23 pm

2007-06-27 12:58:59 pm

Ghana is up now:

It's pretty obvious that the run will easily get under an hour (the next two levels are around 10 minutes based on the times I've heard, while the last two levels are about 6 minutes max together), wonder how much under I will get.

The trick at the dive is what requires 100FPS; Lara just won't grab otherwise (note that I turned a few graphics settings off for a consistent high FPS, although it probably isn't noticable). As I said, the hard shortcut is probably a couple of seconds faster (unless you use the death abuse version, it which case it could be several seconds), but it's so difficult I'd probably end up allowing more mistakes later, so, in human terms, using the easy route balances out due to how small the time difference is.

Other than few rolls being slightly off the only mistake I made on the way to Rutland is grabbing the first pole slightly too far right and having to climb around the corner (the difference in probably in frames). Rutland gets owned despite standing around a short time (still having the shotgun around is very useful for delivering the finishing blow).

As I said earlier, for some reason, when I use the pole shortcut at the mechanical ledges (I think) and aren't recording the small bridge and guards after the spike pits aren't there, which means you can just grapple across and save a couple of seconds. As it's apparently a FRAPs thing there's nothing I can do about it though.

Since I have a 100FPS recording and it would be weird to have one insane quality segment at 100FPS and the others at 60FPS (assuming no other levels need it) I was thinking of asking about doing a separate "insane-insane quality" 100FPS video as well for this level, I guess I'll ask about that.

Edit: BTW, LOL at TRM's 4:48 Japan run in that Legend times thread, even with cheats there's no way in hell I could see that happening (unless they did find a way to reach the grapple instantly), I did read in another thread that TRM used some completely weird timing method for that due to apparent timing bugs though (using a stopwatch and removing the time the IC takes or something), so it might not be a lie, just bizarrely misguided.

Ghana is up now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u9KePkKSvE

It's pretty obvious that the run will easily get under an hour (the next two levels are around 10 minutes based on the times I've heard, while the last two levels are about 6 minutes max together), wonder how much under I will get.

The trick at the dive is what requires 100FPS; Lara just won't grab otherwise (note that I turned a few graphics settings off for a consistent high FPS, although it probably isn't noticable). As I said, the hard shortcut is probably a couple of seconds faster (unless you use the death abuse version, it which case it could be several seconds), but it's so difficult I'd probably end up allowing more mistakes later, so, in human terms, using the easy route balances out due to how small the time difference is.

Other than few rolls being slightly off the only mistake I made on the way to Rutland is grabbing the first pole slightly too far right and having to climb around the corner (the difference in probably in frames). Rutland gets owned despite standing around a short time (still having the shotgun around is very useful for delivering the finishing blow).

As I said earlier, for some reason, when I use the pole shortcut at the mechanical ledges (I think) and aren't recording the small bridge and guards after the spike pits aren't there, which means you can just grapple across and save a couple of seconds. As it's apparently a FRAPs thing there's nothing I can do about it though.

Since I have a 100FPS recording and it would be weird to have one insane quality segment at 100FPS and the others at 60FPS (assuming no other levels need it) I was thinking of asking about doing a separate "insane-insane quality" 100FPS video as well for this level, I guess I'll ask about that.

Edit: BTW, LOL at TRM's 4:48 Japan run in that Legend times thread, even with cheats there's no way in hell I could see that happening (unless they did find a way to reach the grapple instantly), I did read in another thread that TRM used some completely weird timing method for that due to apparent timing bugs though (using a stopwatch and removing the time the IC takes or something), so it might not be a lie, just bizarrely misguided.

Ewil

2007-06-27 03:59:10 pm

Quote:

Since I have a 100FPS recording and it would be weird to have one insane quality segment at 100FPS and the others at 60FPS (assuming no other levels need it) I was thinking of asking about doing a separate "insane-insane quality" 100FPS video as well for this level, I guess I'll ask about that.

You can do 50fps version, which is basically same as 60 in this type of game.

Btw, I would never think Ghana could be done so much better than Laraman did.

Roy_Hess

2007-06-29 08:21:50 am

unemployed Dragon

great run of Ghana, really nice shortcuts
I didnt think that this level can be beaten so quickly

In the run where you go thru some debris is this a bug or is that stuff non solid?

MMAN

2007-06-29 02:10:55 pm

The debris is non-solid from one side (it's instantly solid after you're through). I didn't check if it becomes permanently solid after that though.

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2007-07-10 11:40:05 am

2007-07-10 03:08:16 am

Kazakhstan Part 1 (another bike ride level): (when it validates).

The parachute is just a case of releasing as late as possible. The fence roll is pretty much impossible to get on the first attempt (apparently, failing but being 90% there sets you up perfectly for it to work), I think I only managed it once (after trying at least 100 times before I realised that was how it "worked"). The rest is pretty self explanatory, you could probably get another second off as there are a few tiny mistakes, but the fence roll is annoying enough, especially with grenades flying everywhere half the time.

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2007-07-13 02:13:05 am

2007-07-12 09:24:55 pm

Kazakhstan part two:

Since I couldn't really plan this part I just survived (tough enough) five times and chose the run that got the best time. Obviously, this was the winner.

The first part goes pretty smooth (and I usually don't get to use the barrels at all). In the second part the vans seem to take extremely random damage; sometimes you kill them in half a clip, other times they seem to shrug off a couple of clips (I do notice the first one always seems to die very quick, so maybe they have variable health).

They all die pretty quick in this run, and what sets this one apart from the other runs is that one seems to die for no reason at all (my guess is it's something to do with it hitting a dying biker, but usually that does nothing) and the final two ones hit each other and die (usually that does nothing either). The only bad thing (in terms of the kind of luck that is expected) is that at one point I go around a rock on the wrong side, missing the chance to shoot one van a bunch of times, but its hard to tell how much time that could have saved.

I didn't end up using the slowing down trick I got off youtube, as it seems like Lara is far more accurate or something in this bike ride (she misses all the time in the first one, but consistently hits a lot here).

The fire room shortcuts in part three are apparently impossible on hard, but there are still a couple of other damage shortcuts.

Kazakhstan part two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLvfnKUGfE4

Since I couldn't really plan this part I just survived (tough enough) five times and chose the run that got the best time. Obviously, this was the winner.

The first part goes pretty smooth (and I usually don't get to use the barrels at all). In the second part the vans seem to take extremely random damage; sometimes you kill them in half a clip, other times they seem to shrug off a couple of clips (I do notice the first one always seems to die very quick, so maybe they have variable health).

They all die pretty quick in this run, and what sets this one apart from the other runs is that one seems to die for no reason at all (my guess is it's something to do with it hitting a dying biker, but usually that does nothing) and the final two ones hit each other and die (usually that does nothing either). The only bad thing (in terms of the kind of luck that is expected) is that at one point I go around a rock on the wrong side, missing the chance to shoot one van a bunch of times, but its hard to tell how much time that could have saved.

I didn't end up using the slowing down trick I got off youtube, as it seems like Lara is far more accurate or something in this bike ride (she misses all the time in the first one, but consistently hits a lot here).

The fire room shortcuts in part three are apparently impossible on hard, but there are still a couple of other damage shortcuts.

MMAN

2007-07-13 03:13:58 am

Kazakhstan part 3 (11:12 level time):

I discovered that the fire room skip DOES work, but it needs the FPS limited to 60, or lower, presumably (in other words, it only works while recording, in an amazing change from the usual), as you seem to take damage slower. The front roll at the first fire bit (as opposed to a left roll with the pistols drawn) was actually an accident, but it lost me less health. Getting the roll at the railing wrong once is pretty much the only noticable mistake in this run. You can land on the railing and jump from there, but it's pretty unreliable and saves very little time.

The fan corridors go well, although there are a couple of small mistakes (at the grapple jump you don't have to grab if you get it right). Jumping seems to be the fastest way down the slopes (with the exception of diving at the first one).

At the bit before I dive into the gas it's possible to "ride" the pipe all the way past the first set of gas traps I take damage from, but it doesn't work while recording (good thing recording offers more advantages than disadvantages in this case). Who needs a box at the Tesla platform jump when Lara can levitate Tongue

? The camera has to be aligned near-perfectly straight for it to work.

This seems to be the optimal way to do the moving platforms. The boss is pretty much just an interactive cutscene, although I missed one Tesla shot. The boss actually helps me by knocking me off the cannon at the end (quicker than doing it manually).

Kazakhstan part 3 (11:12 level time): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jWf6mgcRFs

I discovered that the fire room skip DOES work, but it needs the FPS limited to 60, or lower, presumably (in other words, it only works while recording, in an amazing change from the usual), as you seem to take damage slower. The front roll at the first fire bit (as opposed to a left roll with the pistols drawn) was actually an accident, but it lost me less health. Getting the roll at the railing wrong once is pretty much the only noticable mistake in this run. You can land on the railing and jump from there, but it's pretty unreliable and saves very little time.

The fan corridors go well, although there are a couple of small mistakes (at the grapple jump you don't have to grab if you get it right). Jumping seems to be the fastest way down the slopes (with the exception of diving at the first one).

At the bit before I dive into the gas it's possible to "ride" the pipe all the way past the first set of gas traps I take damage from, but it doesn't work while recording (good thing recording offers more advantages than disadvantages in this case). Who needs a box at the Tesla platform jump when Lara can levitate :P ? The camera has to be aligned near-perfectly straight for it to work.

This seems to be the optimal way to do the moving platforms. The boss is pretty much just an interactive cutscene, although I missed one Tesla shot. The boss actually helps me by knocking me off the cannon at the end (quicker than doing it manually).

CannibalK9

2007-07-13 11:36:18 am

give me your eyes!!!

The number of hazards in this level had slipped my mind, some of those tactics are amazing! The start was gripping enough as it is but then you started jumping through gas too, and I know how much that hurts on 'tomb raider' difficulty. Love the new method of skipping half the level, it was broken enough as it was.

And the bike was great too, I've only managed to finish it once on hard, and most of it was down to luck which made it enjoyable to watch in a different way.

England is gonna be a bitch, what are your thoughts on the crumbly shaft area? The shortcut saves a lot of time but it's so hard to pull off and it isn't exactly at the start of the level.

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2007-07-13 12:05:44 pm

2007-07-13 12:05:28 pm

Quote:

England is gonna be a bitch, what are your thoughts on the crumbly shaft area? The shortcut saves a lot of time but it's so hard to pull off and it isn't exactly at the start of the level.

There are at least three ways down that pit, and the alternatives are only slightly slower (but much easier, although I haven't tested the gun trick much), so if it proves too hard I can always substitute it. I'm more curious about whether I can pull off the fire skip or not on hard while recording. I'm not sure about the rest though, as I'm doing the levels as they come since there's minimal planning needed, so I haven't really tested yet.

CannibalK9

2007-07-13 01:05:46 pm

give me your eyes!!!

I could never do that fire skip on hard, and I think I tried it while recording. If it's possible it requires an insane amount of timing that far into the level. It's just like it's possible to get through the blades without boxes, but it's unthinkably random. You could always save it at the checkpoint just before there, that seems very sensible.

Good to know the shaft has a multitude of possibilities, I never found them so it'll be fun to see. An indication of the jump straight down is that it took me about 50 tries to get it my first time and another 50 or so for the second time. How these things are found in the first place I have no idea...

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2007-07-13 02:37:38 pm

2007-07-13 01:30:52 pm

The fire skip is apparently impossible on hard (even at 25 FPS it kills extremely fast; normally it takes 95% of your health if you even scrape it).

The gun way is actually proving to be the easiest way down the pit right now though Smiley

(for some reason I haven't even managed to get the alternatives to work once, but the gun way seems work about a fifth of the time, and that could improve with more positioning work).

Edit: Never mind, I've finally come across a way that works 95% of the time and is only a couple of seconds slower at most.

CannibalK9

2007-07-13 04:49:15 pm

give me your eyes!!!

Dang, Tomb Raiding powerhouse at his best, can't wait to see it!

cortez

2007-07-15 12:11:14 am

Stalker!

impressiv MMAN keep it up

AjAX

2007-07-15 01:43:19 am

You use a medic after the attack(fire burn) right?

MMAN

2007-07-15 01:50:46 am

Quote:

You use a medic after the attack(fire burn) right?

If you mean the ones in Kazakhstan, yes.

AjAX

2007-07-15 03:09:27 am

What do you mean by "the ones"?
I'm speaking of the puzzle box in england.

MMAN

2007-07-15 12:14:48 pm

If you mean spamming them to get across, you only have the time to use one medikit on the way (as there's a big delay before you can use another), and even then you barely even get a third of the way across.

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2007-07-16 12:51:52 pm

2007-07-16 12:44:49 pm

England done in 10:44: Part1 Part 2: (more than ten minutes).

I wasn't going to do the first left roll at the fence as it seemed really unreliable for only about a second saved (the second one is important though), but I was getting lucky with it and decided to try my luck and it worked out (getting both within three rolls is very lucky).

At the door you grapple open my guess was pretty approximate, so you could probably go lower, but it would barely save any time anyway. Not getting stuck on boxes at the forklift was hard at first but eventually I found an approximate route that worked almost every time.

That "95%" chance trick at the fall I mentioned suddenly become extremely unreliable. However, after modifying it a bit I found a way that does work every time (you just need to make sure the camera is straight and you are holding forward) AND I think it's the fastest way to get down (the gun way needs you to line up, and the alternative ways to do this all need you to go all the way down the stairs). It sounds painful Smiley

. Pushing the box through the blades can lose you a bunch of time if you get caught on them wrong, I did it pretty well here.

At the coffin on the water it doesn't seem to matter whether you pull it from the pressure plate or use the torches, I went to the plate here as the coffin had aligned itself so that it would get caught on the wall a little if I had used the torches (and there was a chance Lara would have grappled the closest torch, rather than the end one). At the second gate the second water coffin can sometimes get stuck and go through the gate glacially slow, losing you about five seconds, this is pretty much the fastest I've managed it.

In the tomb the box pull is another thing that's approximate and might not need to be pulled so far, but again it would save very little time. The boss is more about fighting the controls, although the second attack as I crossed the bridge was a "wtf?" thing (although it had happened before). At the last bell it's VERY important to only have one lever visible, or else the other tends to be grabbed and you don't get time to recover. After it died I was supposed to get the positioning right so I directly grab the rock rather than cross the snake, but I got it wrong so it just looked weird.

When going down the slope you can jump but you lose health, I decided not to risk it. The first two guards don't need to be killed but they turned out to be a major danger so I decided to, good thing I did as I needed both medikits. Getting through the blade traps was extremely lucky considering the speed they were going. The guard before the elevator was the biggest time loss in this run, I was pretty glad autograb saved me there, but then I got kicked over as well. The final battle was a fluke; I was hammering shoot to kill the first guard but for some reason Lara threw a grenade at the other instead, but it all worked out Smiley

.

Hopefully it'll be smooth sailing from here, as I'm past every level I wasn't sure about (England and Kazakhstan have no decent runs or much documentation considering their size).

England done in 10:44: Part1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk9EaOyuEUc Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuYSPxhUjo (more than ten minutes).

I wasn't going to do the first left roll at the fence as it seemed really unreliable for only about a second saved (the second one is important though), but I was getting lucky with it and decided to try my luck and it worked out (getting both within three rolls is very lucky).

At the door you grapple open my guess was pretty approximate, so you could probably go lower, but it would barely save any time anyway.  Not getting stuck on boxes at the forklift was hard at first but eventually I found an approximate route that worked almost every time.

That "95%" chance trick at the fall I mentioned suddenly become extremely unreliable. However, after modifying it a bit I found a way that does work every time (you just need to make sure the camera is straight and you are holding forward) AND I think it's the fastest way to get down (the gun way needs you to line up, and the alternative ways to do this all need you to go all the way down the stairs). It sounds painful :) . Pushing the box through the blades can lose you a bunch of time if you get caught on them wrong, I did it pretty well here.

At the coffin on the water it doesn't seem to matter whether you pull it from the pressure plate or use the torches, I went to the plate here as the coffin had aligned itself so that it would get caught on the wall a little if I had used the torches (and there was a chance Lara would have grappled the closest torch, rather than the end one). At the second gate the second water coffin can sometimes get stuck and go through the gate glacially slow, losing you about five seconds, this is pretty much the fastest I've managed it.

In the tomb the box pull is another thing that's approximate and might not need to be pulled so far, but again it would save very little time. The boss is more about fighting the controls, although the second attack as I crossed the bridge was a "wtf?" thing (although it had happened before). At the last bell it's VERY important to only have one lever visible, or else the other tends to be grabbed and you don't get time to recover. After it died I was supposed to get the positioning right so I directly grab the rock rather than cross the snake, but I got it wrong so it just looked weird.

When going down the slope you can jump but you lose health, I decided not to risk it. The first two guards don't need to be killed but they turned out to be a major danger so I decided to, good thing I did as I needed both medikits. Getting through the blade traps was extremely lucky considering the speed they were going. The guard before the elevator was the biggest time loss in this run, I was pretty glad autograb saved me there, but then I got kicked over as well. The final battle was a fluke; I was hammering shoot to kill the first guard but for some reason Lara threw a grenade at the other instead, but it all worked out :) .

Hopefully it'll be smooth sailing from here, as I'm past every level I wasn't sure about (England and Kazakhstan have no decent runs or much documentation considering their size).

cortez

2007-07-16 01:05:58 pm

Stalker!

great

and a awesome time

the only thing where you can sikp of some sec is the end where you stopped from some guys

MMAN

2007-07-16 01:17:27 pm

Quote:

the only thing where you can sikp of some sec is the end where you stopped from some guys

As I said, that was the biggest mistake here (although still only about four seconds lost). I should have went back and kicked that fucker about a bit for revenge Tongue

.

CannibalK9

Edit history:

CannibalK9: 2007-07-16 02:01:36 pm

2007-07-16 02:01:08 pm

give me your eyes!!!

I never had a problem left-rolling that fence for some reason, good job though.

The forklift, I'd almost forgotten, you can hardly tell how much of a pain that section is from your strategy.
Very nice shortcut at the shaft, she's got a good pair of lungs on her.

Didn't get caught out jumping over fires either, I almost always do somehow.

Coffin rafting was great, hauling it from the pressure pad was sensible.

Loved the jump just to edge of the slope outside the cathedraly thing, took me by surprise.

Serpent fight was almost perfect, which I never found too hard to do either (unless I was going for speed of course).

I doubt I'd be able to roll through the blades at that speed on hard with the flames coming up soon, very nice.

Too bad about that one guard, nothing major though.

Can't you jump off the rising platform sooner? I usually chucked a grenade as it rose so I wouldn't get shot then jumped off. It was probably only a seconds difference or so.

Final two guys were wonderfully quick, accidental or not, I didn't even see you throw that second grenade.

Not much left!

I never had a problem left-rolling that fence for some reason, good job though.

The forklift, I'd almost forgotten, you can hardly tell how much of a pain that section is from your strategy.
Very nice shortcut at the shaft, she's got a good pair of lungs on her.

Didn't get caught out jumping over fires either, I almost always do somehow.

Coffin rafting was great, hauling it from the pressure pad was sensible.

Loved the jump just to edge of the slope outside the cathedraly thing, took me by surprise.

Serpent fight was almost perfect, which I never found too hard to do either (unless I was going for speed of course).

I doubt I'd be able to roll through the blades at that speed on hard with the flames coming up soon, very nice.

Too bad about that one guard, nothing major though.

Can't you jump off the rising platform sooner? I usually chucked a grenade as it rose so I wouldn't get shot then jumped off. It was probably only a seconds difference or so.

Final two guys were wonderfully quick, accidental or not, I didn't even see you throw that second grenade.

Not much left!

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2007-07-16 02:10:11 pm

2007-07-16 02:08:23 pm

Oh yeah, I waited for the platform to stop as otherwise there's a (pretty high) chance Lara will do some ridiculous jump that kills you.

Ewil

2007-07-17 07:10:38 am

Good run, I love the "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh" part Smiley

Just 2 things:

1) Director account on Youtube allows you to upload videos longer than 10 minutes.

2) Do you plan on running Anniversary when you finish this ?

cortez

2007-07-17 10:17:26 am

Stalker!

Quote:

1) Director account on Youtube allows you to upload videos longer than 10 minutes.

No it doesnt anymore.