Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2017-01-24 11:38:26 am

2017-01-03 02:24:11 pm

Game Page: http://speeddemosarchive.com/SplinterCellDoubleAgentShanghai.html

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment] [Hard] [Resets] [New Game+] [Good Ending]

Decision: Reject

Reason: The run was played based on the assumption that the in-game timer can be used and it was therefore no rush in the menuing between levels. However, the in-game timer won't be used and the time spent in menus is therefore included in the total time.

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/verificationfiles/1998/

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Thread title:

SDAVerification

2017-01-03 02:24:11 pm

Run Information

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment] [Hard] [Resets] [New Game+] [Good Ending]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/SplinterCellDoubleAgentShanghai-20161222/

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

LotBlind

2017-01-06 01:32:25 pm

Does this category have restrictions that force you to show the stats at the end of each mission? I see you're spending some time doing that every time. Even if you wanted to show them, couldn't you do that at the very end?

Furthermore, if this actually has resets (I'm half an hour in, I presume you mean the death in the last mission), it has to be RTA-timed. Thus you're definitely wasting time in those menus. Or am I missing something?

Deleted User

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2018-10-09 01:12:05 pm

2017-01-06 03:02:02 pm

Honestly, I'm not sure how this category is supposed to work out. I thought the ingame timer would be the one to use. Also, I would not be able to show it at the end because the game only tracks the highest stealth %. I'm using a profile that has everything unlocked along with 100% stealth.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2017-01-07 02:10:37 pm

2017-01-07 07:16:40 am

From the rules:

"The game's internal timer will generally be used unless it is inconsistent or fails to display the time after completion." In this case it doesn't show it then. Also anywhere where there's a death we'd have to go real-time anyway, which usually means deaths/resets makes the whole thing RTA.

We'll wait for the timer to pop by to verify this, but I half expect we'd have to time this in real time which would probably mean it's not good enough. You don't really have a reason to show the stats or unlocked stuff sadly. Also can the cutscenes be skipped?

EDIT: Had a chat with the timer. Basically, because dying/loading resets the level timers, we can't use IGT for such missions, which means we don't use it at all. This is because in some games IGT and RTA strategies could actually be different and so we couldn't mix the timing methods. So any SS run for this game will always be real-time.

If you did a SS run of a category where you actually have to show to the viewers or you have to know yourself that you've kept to the restrictions associated with it (and can't show it after the run), you can do that but you have to do it in a speedy fashion.

Lemme know if that doesn't make sense or you need more answers. I don't, unfortunately, have the time to watch the rest of this now, but if you choose to keep attempts going at some point, will gladly do so later on.

(reject because slow menuing)

From the rules:

"The game's internal timer will generally be used unless it is inconsistent or fails to display the time after completion." In this case it doesn't show it then. Also anywhere where there's a death we'd have to go real-time anyway, which usually means deaths/resets makes the whole thing RTA.

We'll wait for the timer to pop by to verify this, but I half expect we'd have to time this in real time which would probably mean it's not good enough. You don't really have a reason to show the stats or unlocked stuff sadly. Also can the cutscenes be skipped?

EDIT: Had a chat with the timer. Basically, because dying/loading resets the level timers, we can't use IGT for such missions, which means we don't use it at all. This is because in some games IGT and RTA strategies could actually be different and so we couldn't mix the timing methods. So any SS run for this game will always be real-time.

If you did a SS run of a category where you actually have to show to the viewers or you have to know yourself that you've kept to the restrictions associated with it (and can't show it after the run), you can do that but you have to do it in a speedy fashion.

Lemme know if that doesn't make sense or you need more answers. I don't, unfortunately, have the time to watch the rest of this now, but if you choose to keep attempts going at some point, will gladly do so later on.

(reject because slow menuing)

LotBlind

2017-01-10 07:56:39 am

Quick note about categorization: if this run abuses save/loading to manipulate the game to behave in a way that's not possible without it (i.e. actually impossible) the "resets" tag is correct, but if it's just to recover from unintentional dying or after failing at a difficult trick, it isn't required since it goes under RTA rules and is judged by verifiers on an individual basis. So whichever is the case, you'll know with the next submission.

Deleted User

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2018-10-09 01:12:12 pm

2017-01-10 09:15:40 pm

If the death didn't happen, would the ingame timer still be used? Also which cutscenes are you referring to?

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2017-01-20 03:34:13 am

2017-01-11 07:54:48 am

Well there's two options:
a) The the run is RTA timed and you can die or save/load as much as you like. If it's faster to use strategies that are super risky and will fail a few times but save time overall, then this would allow for that. You obviously have to do menus as fast as possible (and skip cutscenes in case some of them were skippable at the start of the mission or so).
b) The run is IGT timed but there can be no resets or dying to mess with IGT. IGT has to be representative of the run's full gameplay. In this case we don't have to time anything ourselves.

With some games, you can do either or. It just depends on the community's choice and if it's interesting enough to separate the categories. Because this game already seems to have lots of potential categories (from what I remember you saying earlier), it might be warranted to just use RTA for SS runs (with the exception of allowing you to briefly show stats screens if it's required for the category), but feel free to argue otherwise and we probably won't complain. You're the expert.

EDIT: I mean in case you can skip any of the start-mission cutscenes.

Well there's two options:
a) The the run is RTA timed and you can die or save/load as much as you like. If it's faster to use strategies that are super risky and will fail a few times but save time overall, then this would allow for that. You obviously have to do menus as fast as possible (and skip cutscenes in case some of them were skippable at the start of the mission or so).
b) The run is IGT timed but there can be no resets or dying to mess with IGT. IGT has to be representative of the run's full gameplay. In this case we don't have to time anything ourselves.

With some games, you can do either or. It just depends on the community's choice and if it's interesting enough to separate the categories. Because this game already seems to have lots of potential categories (from what I remember you saying earlier), it might be warranted to just use RTA for SS runs (with the exception of allowing you to briefly show stats screens if it's required for the category), but feel free to argue otherwise and we probably won't complain. You're the expert.

EDIT: I mean in case you can skip any of the start-mission cutscenes.

Deleted User

IsraeliRD

Edit history:

IsraeliRD: 2018-10-09 01:12:18 pm

2017-01-21 12:33:08 pm

Well, I guess option b would the one to use.

Also, I don't think there is a way to skip any of the cutscenes.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2017-01-22 09:12:01 am

2017-01-22 09:10:16 am

Okay, do as you see fit. Still, shouldn't spend too too long in the menus as it still feels a bit weird in a speedrun.

Good luck!

SDAVerification

2017-01-24 11:38:27 am

Decision posted.