Time Gate: Knight's Chase

Edit history:

SDAVerification: 2020-06-30 08:39:30 am

SDAVerification: 2020-06-30 08:39:16 am

2020-06-10 12:28:22 am

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet

Time Gate: Knight's Chase () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Decision: Cancelled

Reason: The runner is working on an improvement, submission cancelled

https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/verificationfiles/2272/

This run will be available for a month. After that these link(s) will no longer work.

Thread title:

SDAVerification

2020-06-10 12:28:22 am

Run Information

Time Gate: Knight's Chase () (pc) [Any %] [Single Segment]

Verification Files

http://v.speeddemosarchive.com/Timegate-speedrun-22_43-v_HQ.mp4

Please refer to the Verification Guidelines before posting.

Please post your opinions about the run and be certain to conclude your post with a verdict (Accept/Reject). If you wish to remain anonymous, you can also send a pm with your reply to 'sdaverification' (please state clearly in that case which run you have verified). This is not a contest where the majority wins - Each verification will be judged on its content.

LotBlind

2020-06-20 07:49:54 am

Hmm... I was just reading your notes for now. I wanted to ask you if you had seen the AitD guide? As you probably know, it's the same engine, and the chances that none of the same tricks work in Knight's Chase are very small. At the same time, a lot of what the guide talks about is specific to AitD 1 and also certain things only work in segmented runs. Anyway, did you ever spend any time looking at it? I can point out what parts you should read.

Items: So you can't choose to not pick up items?

Fast stairs: This is probably the same as AitD. It just requires facing the exact right angle when you start climbing. Difficult to set that up in SS but might be possible.

LotBlind

2020-06-22 08:35:50 am

A lot of this stuff depends on assuming the game works the same as AitD 1.

In your notes, what do you mean by "use the Room Viewer to see the executioner's position"?

BTW: When you say "following the monk" in your notes, I think you mean nun? Sorry if I'm wrong, but I'm just saying this because it will be confusing if you use the wrong word.

00:04 - Is that blue stripe on the far left always there when you play this game? Is that from your splits since it keeps moving further down?
00:36 - There seem to be various movement mistakes. I know the AitD 1 SS run is much shorter (well, but also some of the movement might be even more difficult), but NHG got very good at the movement after practicing each little bit separately.
1:02 - Even here it looks like you turn too a little bit early before you've crawled far enough parallel to the wall.
1:33 - Looks like starting to run is a problem in this game too? I thought that was fixed?
3:14 - If you need to do a 180 here, why wouldn't you turn in place first? Is the rotation speed double that way? Even if it isn't, it stops you from initially moving the wrong direction.
4:53 - You're fighting off another guard?
5:10 - The gate looks to orientate you perpendicularly. If space turns are a thing in this game, and if it's possible to do right after opening the gate you might be able to buffer the 90-degree turn that enables entering the stairs faster. However, this requires having no space action so maybe that's not possible with your inventory being what it is.
5:35 - Sloppy movement.
6:40 - More stuttery movement. Why can't you run?
8:25 - Looks like you could definitely time this better so you don't have to go to the inventory so many times. Is there a pause key? Did you try using that instead?
11:11 - I'd like to say this is your own fault. It's just a lack of experience and testing to know what kinds of angles are okay and what's not.
12:18 - Another mistake?
13:06 - If it doesn't let you pick those up straight away, did you try just backing up and walking forwards again? In any case I wonder why you can't do that extra movement in a way that makes you already be turned towards the next item you're picking up.
18:36 - Maybe in theory four space turns in a row here could enable getting to the stairs facing the right way but I believe the inputs (I may have forgotten to mention this) are frame-perfect each time. Even though it's hitting two keys on the same frame, doing it four times perfectly is probably a bit much. Still, I wanted to point this out as a possibility in case you could do it somewhere else.
20:01 - Here you're moving towards a particular table. You can see the table in this view. Is there no way you could use this view, and possibly some others, to orientate yourself so when you arrive at the table, you're not too far right or left? It feels like you're moving in the right direction but then you second-guess yourself and veer to the right instead.
22:32 - From the guide: "If you interrupt pushing after kf1 (every 40 frames), you're moving at 7.075 units per frame as opposed to 6.135 if you reset it after kf3 (170 frames in). The last kf4 is slow so you never want to let that one play out." The pushing ANIM might be faster to interrupt half-way through. I don't think this is what you're doing? You should probably test it by using a metronome and find which pulse works best for releasing and pressing it down again. Hope it works!

The menuing at least looks pretty fast though it's difficult to tell since I haven't tried using it myself.

So I think while a few movement mistakes are inevitable with this engine, practice could still help clean off more of them. Also with facing the right way to perform actions that require that. It's funny, that's not really a problem in AitD, so they clearly coded those things a bit differently (worse, that is). Just take a look at everywhere you've made a mistake or tend to make them and save right before, practising that particular action.

I'll wait for your reply before giving my final verdict.

A lot of this stuff depends on assuming the game works the same as AitD 1.

In your notes, what do you mean by "use the Room Viewer to see the executioner's position"?

BTW: When you say "following the monk" in your notes, I think you mean nun? Sorry if I'm wrong, but I'm just saying this because it will be confusing if you use the wrong word.

00:04 - Is that blue stripe on the far left always there when you play this game? Is that from your splits since it keeps moving further down?
00:36 - There seem to be various movement mistakes. I know the AitD 1 SS run is much shorter (well, but also some of the movement might be even more difficult), but NHG got very good at the movement after practicing each little bit separately.
1:02 - Even here it looks like you turn too a little bit early before you've crawled far enough parallel to the wall.
1:33 - Looks like starting to run is a problem in this game too? I thought that was fixed?
3:14 - If you need to do a 180 here, why wouldn't you turn in place first? Is the rotation speed double that way? Even if it isn't, it stops you from initially moving the wrong direction.
4:53 - You're fighting off another guard?
5:10 - The gate looks to orientate you perpendicularly. If space turns are a thing in this game, and if it's possible to do right after opening the gate you might be able to buffer the 90-degree turn that enables entering the stairs faster. However, this requires having no space action so maybe that's not possible with your inventory being what it is.
5:35 - Sloppy movement.
6:40 - More stuttery movement. Why can't you run?
8:25 - Looks like you could definitely time this better so you don't have to go to the inventory so many times. Is there a pause key? Did you try using that instead?
11:11 - I'd like to say this is your own fault. It's just a lack of experience and testing to know what kinds of angles are okay and what's not.
12:18 - Another mistake?
13:06 - If it doesn't let you pick those up straight away, did you try just backing up and walking forwards again? In any case I wonder why you can't do that extra movement in a way that makes you already be turned towards the next item you're picking up.
18:36 - Maybe in theory four space turns in a row here could enable getting to the stairs facing the right way but I believe the inputs (I may have forgotten to mention this) are frame-perfect each time. Even though it's hitting two keys on the same frame, doing it four times perfectly is probably a bit much. Still, I wanted to point this out as a possibility in case you could do it somewhere else.
20:01 - Here you're moving towards a particular table. You can see the table in this view. Is there no way you could use this view, and possibly some others, to orientate yourself so when you arrive at the table, you're not too far right or left? It feels like you're moving in the right direction but then you second-guess yourself and veer to the right instead.
22:32 - From the guide: "If you interrupt pushing after kf1 (every 40 frames), you're moving at 7.075 units per frame as opposed to 6.135 if you reset it after kf3 (170 frames in). The last kf4 is slow so you never want to let that one play out." The pushing ANIM might be faster to interrupt half-way through. I don't think this is what you're doing? You should probably test it by using a metronome and find which pulse works best for releasing and pressing it down again. Hope it works!

The menuing at least looks pretty fast though it's difficult to tell since I haven't tried using it myself.

So I think while a few movement mistakes are inevitable with this engine, practice could still help clean off more of them. Also with facing the right way to perform actions that require that. It's funny, that's not really a problem in AitD, so they clearly coded those things a bit differently (worse, that is). Just take a look at everywhere you've made a mistake or tend to make them and save right before, practising that particular action.

I'll wait for your reply before giving my final verdict.

arnaud33200

Edit history:

arnaud33200: 2020-06-24 04:57:59 pm

2020-06-23 05:10:50 pm

Thanks a lot for reviewing my run, I tried to answer all your questions & comments:

Quote:

Anyway, did you ever spend any time looking at it? I can point out what parts you should read.

yes I read a bit of it, that will be nice if you can point out the part I should read, the page is quite long. Also I haven't look at the AITD run yet since I want to play the game first. I actually started to play today ahah.

Quote:

So you can't choose to not pick up items?

I can choose to not pickup items, some situation if I don't pickup, the pickup item dialog appear again, so it's faster to just pick it up

Quote:

It just requires facing the exact right angle when you start climbing.

I tried different way and different angle but it never works. I had it few time by accident, I think it was a 30 degree angle

Quote:

In your notes, what do you mean by "use the Room Viewer to see the executioner's position"?

mmmh that was more a personal note, I was curious about his movement off screen but

Quote:

I think you mean nun?

It's a male, so a monk. check the notes, I put a "Characters" section. so far I counted 3 female characters: Juliette, Lizard Juliette and the Japanese journalist.

Quote:

The gate looks to orientate you perpendicularly.

you right, during some practice I could have a super quick stair, not easy

Quote:

Sloppy movement.

for this part I have to wait for the old bind man to pass a zone, otherwise he will call for the guard.

Quote:

More stuttery movement. Why can't you run?

cameras' angle are not helping, I fall easily on this part. while training I found a better way to do more straight lines and run more.

Quote:

Is there a pause key? Did you try using that instead?

I didn't know about the pause key! I've just tried but it doesn't work, I have to pause buffer with ENTER since I need to have the menu open exactly on that frame. I found a better timming to have 2 or 3 times pausing. I think I can skip some animation with the pause buffering, I will try it.

Quote:

I'd like to say this is your own fault.

yes, I make this type of mistake sometime, happen more often when I'm nervous during my run ahah

Quote:

Another mistake?

yes, I think it's better to start with the other torch, this one has a difficult angle.

Quote:

If it doesn't let you pick those up straight away

first time I had this mistake ever! usually those 3 items are all together at the same spot, it's difficult to miss it. I found a way to move during the old templar death cut scene, so I can open the door first and then I have a better camera angle to see the items to pick.

Quote:

I wanted to point this out as a possibility in case you could do it somewhere else

stairs are almost in every segment of this game, it would save a lot of time find the right way to climb it.

Quote:

Here you're moving towards a particular table

I found that going to the shelf first is actually better, since I will have a better camera angle to pick the items on the table.

Quote:

I don't think this is what you're doing?

No I'm not doing that and I wasn't aware of that, I didn't read this part from the guide, I will try that during my training using a timer and I will use the AITD Room Viewer to see the speed

Thanks a lot for reviewing my run, I tried to answer all your questions & comments:

[quote]Anyway, did you ever spend any time looking at it? I can point out what parts you should read.[/quote]
yes I read a bit of it, that will be nice if you can point out the part I should read, the page is quite long. Also I haven't look at the AITD run yet since I want to play the game first. I actually started to play today ahah.

[quote]So you can't choose to not pick up items?[/quote]
I can choose to not pickup items, some situation if I don't pickup, the pickup item dialog appear again, so it's faster to just pick it up

[quote]It just requires facing the exact right angle when you start climbing.[/quote]
I tried different way and different angle but it never works. I had it few time by accident, I think it was a 30 degree angle

[quote]In your notes, what do you mean by "use the Room Viewer to see the executioner's position"?[/quote]
mmmh that was more a personal note, I was curious about his movement off screen but

[quote] I think you mean nun?[/quote]
It's a male, so a monk. check the notes, I put a "Characters" section. so far I counted 3 female characters: Juliette, Lizard Juliette and the Japanese journalist.

[quote]The gate looks to orientate you perpendicularly.[/quote]
you right, during some practice I could have a super quick stair, not easy

[quote]Sloppy movement.[/quote]
for this part I have to wait for the old bind man to pass a zone, otherwise he will call for the guard.

[quote]More stuttery movement. Why can't you run?[/quote]
cameras' angle are not helping, I fall easily on this part. while training I found a better way to do more straight lines and run more.

[quote]Is there a pause key? Did you try using that instead?[/quote]
I didn't know about the pause key! I've just tried but it doesn't work, I have to pause buffer with ENTER since I need to have the menu open exactly on that frame. I found a better timming to have 2 or 3 times pausing. I think I can skip some animation with the pause buffering, I will try it.

[quote]I'd like to say this is your own fault.[/quote]
yes, I make this type of mistake sometime, happen more often when I'm nervous during my run ahah

[quote]Another mistake?[/quote]
yes, I think it's better to start with the other torch, this one has a difficult angle.

[quote]If it doesn't let you pick those up straight away[/quote]
first time I had this mistake ever! usually those 3 items are all together at the same spot, it's difficult to miss it. I found a way to move during the old templar death cut scene, so I can open the door first and then I have a better camera angle to see the items to pick.

[quote]I wanted to point this out as a possibility in case you could do it somewhere else[/quote]
stairs are almost in every segment of this game, it would save a lot of time find the right way to climb it.

[quote]Here you're moving towards a particular table[/quote]
I found that going to the shelf first is actually better, since I will have a better camera angle to pick the items on the table.

[quote]I don't think this is what you're doing?[/quote]
No I'm not doing that and I wasn't aware of that, I didn't read this part from the guide, I will try that during my training using a timer and I will use the AITD Room Viewer to see the speed

arnaud33200

2020-06-23 08:17:58 pm

I just tried pushing the cross while during repetitive pause key, it's 2s faster!

LotBlind

2020-06-24 02:52:00 pm

AITD guide: I wonder how we should do this... I think probably you should play the game yourself first, as you said you wanted to, then go ahead and watch NHG's latest speedrun (6 minutes something) and read the notes (also in the guide on a separate page). Try all the tricks yourself except for sideways clipping (where you run into a corner to clip into it: that was patched already for AitD 2 so it definitely shouldn't work in Time Gate). To be honest, there aren't that many tricks all in all aside from sideways clipping. After that, could you post a message in this thread that I just created? I'll help you find the most critical passages from the guide at that point, and also you can use it for sharing new findings if you'd like me to comment on them, and just for anyone who might be interested.

Climbing stairs: Would like to see a video of it happening (in that new thread). Does the Room Viewer show which angle the actors are facing? If so, it should be possible to right-click and set that angle to anything you like.

"I think you mean nun": Okay, you're right. Something about the robe convinced me I was looking at a nun. It wouldn't make sense for it to be a mixed nunnery/monastery.

Pause key: Did you already read the manual for this game completely? You really should read the manual for any game you speedrun, since there might always be some hidden feature or something else of interest. I don't know if there exists a strategy guide (an official book or booklet) like there is for AitD but that might be interesting too. TBH the AitD strategy guide was not a good read at all. XD The other thing to do is go through whatever people have been writing about the game on official store fronts or elsewhere and be on the lookout for any messages where they say they've run into a bug or glitch: if you're very lucky it could lead you to something useful.

The rest of your answers: I was just throwing ideas out there. You know best, or at least you will.

I think this has the potential to be a very decent run! Anyway, I hope to see you in the other thread. For the sake of this verification, for now we should give it a

reject (very likely there are known-about tricks that could be implemented here, and also execution could be a bit cleaner)

AITD guide: I wonder how we should do this... I think probably you should play the game yourself first, as you said you wanted to, then go ahead and watch NHG's latest speedrun (6 minutes something) and read the notes (also in the guide on a separate page). Try all the tricks yourself except for sideways clipping (where you run into a corner to clip into it: that was patched already for AitD 2 so it definitely shouldn't work in Time Gate). To be honest, there aren't that many tricks all in all aside from sideways clipping. After that, could you post a message in [url=https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/time_gate_knights_chase.html]this thread[/url] that I just created? I'll help you find the most critical passages from the guide at that point, and also you can use it for sharing new findings if you'd like me to comment on them, and just for anyone who might be interested.

Climbing stairs: Would like to see a video of it happening (in that new thread). Does the Room Viewer show which angle the actors are facing? If so, it should be possible to right-click and set that angle to anything you like.

"I think you mean nun": Okay, you're right. Something about the robe convinced me I was looking at a nun. It wouldn't make sense for it to be a mixed nunnery/monastery.

Pause key: Did you already read the manual for this game completely? You really should read the manual for any game you speedrun, since there might always be some hidden feature or something else of interest. I don't know if there exists a strategy guide (an official book or booklet) like there is for AitD but that might be interesting too. TBH the AitD strategy guide was not a good read at all. XD The other thing to do is go through whatever people have been writing about the game on official store fronts or elsewhere and be on the lookout for any messages where they say they've run into a bug or glitch: if you're very lucky it could lead you to something useful.

The rest of your answers: I was just throwing ideas out there. You know best, or at least you will.

I think this has the potential to be a very decent run! Anyway, I hope to see you in the other thread. For the sake of this verification, for now we should give it a

reject (very likely there are known-about tricks that could be implemented here, and also execution could be a bit cleaner)

SDAVerification

2020-06-30 08:39:17 am

Decision posted.

LotBlind

2020-06-30 11:58:03 am

For future reference, we have to stick with whatever DOSBox settings are used in official rereleases since otherwise it might be unfair to use a super-high setting (results depend on your computer speed). Forgot to ask.