The site will suffer

2005-10-25 10:31:46 am

m00

Quote:

I've talked with 3 lawyers who all agree this violates my states "implied warranty of habitability" which guarantees any place of residence is "habitable".

All of them have a certain interest in earning money when you go to court, so I wouldn't solely rely on it.

anyway, I don't see much chances for noise at day, however since these noises appear at night I'd call it unacceptable (from a 'common sense' point of view, I'm no lawyer).

how regulary do these voices appear? if the landlord deliberately tried to hide the noises from you when you viewed the appartment, that might give you enough fodder for court.

it might be a good idea to measure the noise level where you sleep and compare it to some common work safety rules. if you find some reglement that instructs the workers to wear ear protection at those noise levels that'd be a pretty strong argument in court.

I don't know, staying there is unacceptable, and if you need to spend money anyway to get out of it I'd personally rather give that money to lawyers than your landlord. no guarantees though..

do you know about any precedent court cases about noise levels? might help evaluate your chances. but I guess if you contacted some lawyers they should have told you.

by the way, what happens if you just move somewhere else and stop paying?

whatever you do, I wish you good luck with it!

[quote]I've talked with 3 lawyers who all agree this violates my states "implied warranty of habitability" which guarantees any place of residence is "habitable".[/quote]
All of them have a certain interest in earning money when you go to court, so I wouldn't solely rely on it.

anyway, I don't see much chances for noise at day, however since these noises appear at night I'd call it unacceptable (from a 'common sense' point of view, I'm no lawyer).

how regulary do these voices appear? if the landlord deliberately tried to hide the noises from you when you viewed the appartment, that might give you enough fodder for court.

it might be a good idea to measure the noise level where you sleep and compare it to some common work safety rules. if you find some reglement that instructs the workers to wear ear protection at those noise levels that'd be a pretty strong argument in court.

I don't know, staying there is unacceptable, and if you need to spend money anyway to get out of it I'd personally rather give that money to lawyers than your landlord. no guarantees though..

do you know about any precedent court cases about noise levels? might help evaluate your chances. but I guess if you contacted some lawyers they should have told you.

by the way, what happens if you just move somewhere else and stop paying?

whatever you do, I wish you good luck with it!

Mkt2015

Edit history:

Mkt2015: 2005-10-25 11:54:07 am

2005-10-25 11:38:57 am

MGS for PS1 forever.

Sorry...didn't realize you had posted the noise thing. My best guess would be a hair dryer. Since the noise isn't constant I would almost assume it was a hair dryer.

Now, lets go with this theory. There are probably quite a few women living within the same apartment complex and they all have different hours in which they work...which would explain your inability to sleep. The only way for that sound to get into your room would be through a duct. Going through a duct would amplify the noise. It could go through the walls...but the walls would act like a buffer...even paper-thin is still a buffer.

In short terms...it could be a cacaphony of hair dryers that you are hearing.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2005-10-25 04:39:30 pm

2005-10-25 02:53:22 pm

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

I didn't have time to read all of it, but this site seems to cover your interests:

http://www.nonoise.org/

Maybe they can give you some advice.

DTaeKim

2005-10-25 04:32:50 pm

That would drive me insane after a day or two. I'm surprised you were able to cope with it for this long before snapping.

It looks like Gorash's site will help immensely with this problem.

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2005-10-25 05:50:58 pm

2005-10-25 05:50:14 pm

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

My best guess would be a hair dryer.

It's the plumbing.

Quote:

how regulary do these voices appear? if the landlord deliberately tried to hide the noises from you when you viewed the appartment, that might give you enough fodder for court.

Voices? I think you meant noises Tongue

And every day. At any time when someone turns on the water, there it is. The level varies depending on who is running what. I wasn't able to get the loudest noise recorded since it's rather rare.

They claim they didn't know there was a problem the first time I complained, so they couldn't have been trying to "hide it". Then they came and listened to the problem and the manager said "the problem is not in your apartment, we're going to do install new washers in other apartments and that'll take care of it". (note, that's the little metal ring washer not a clothes waster)

A week later when nothing had changed I called to complain again. Then I got a letter saying that it's "normal operating paramters" and that I must have "extraordinary acute hearing".

Yesterday a different manager claimed it was "normal apartment living". So they went from there being no problem to there being a problem they'd fix, to there being no problem. Typical lying company.

I have another appointment with a lawyer at 4pm tomorrow. Time to write a $300 check.

[quote]My best guess would be a hair dryer.[/quote]

It's the plumbing.

[quote]how regulary do these voices appear? if the landlord deliberately tried to hide the noises from you when you viewed the appartment, that might give you enough fodder for court.[/quote]

Voices? I think you meant noises :P And every day. At any time when someone turns on the water, there it is. The level varies depending on who is running what. I wasn't able to get the loudest noise recorded since it's rather rare.

They claim they didn't know there was a problem the first time I complained, so they couldn't have been trying to "hide it". Then they came and listened to the problem and the manager said "the problem is not in your apartment, we're going to do install new washers in other apartments and that'll take care of it". (note, that's the little metal ring washer not a clothes waster)

A week later when nothing had changed I called to complain again. Then I got a letter saying that it's "normal operating paramters" and that I must have "extraordinary acute hearing".

Yesterday a different manager claimed it was "normal apartment living". So they went from there being no problem to there being a problem they'd fix, to there being no problem. Typical lying company.

I have another appointment with a lawyer at 4pm tomorrow. Time to write a $300 check.

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2005-10-25 06:00:18 pm

2005-10-25 05:52:32 pm

Quote:

Is there a better business bureau-ish thing for housing in your city? I live in San Diego and I know that there are a bunch of organizations that can work together to rid the whole city of unjust land lords and whatnot. Most large cities in CA offer something of the sort, and (I think you live in or near Berkeley) your area shouldn't be a stranger to housing feuds.

Nothing wrong with Berkeley, as long as you live near the UC campus, like me.

Quote:

Does nobody here live in an apartment building?

Yep, I do, and there is absolutely no noise that even comes close to that. YOU have every right to feel bad? Any idea when it happens? Like when your neighbor is taking a shower or something? What do you plan to do? Ask them to fix it? Move out? Continue living there, but ask them to reduce the rent? Ask them to terminate your lease without you giving up the deposit? Do you have other apartments in mind that you can move into, if they let you terminate the lease?

[quote]Is there a better business bureau-ish thing for housing in your city?  I live in San Diego and I know that there are a bunch of organizations that can work together to rid the whole city of unjust land lords and whatnot.  Most large cities in CA offer something of the sort, and (I think you live in or near Berkeley) your area shouldn't be a stranger to housing feuds.[/quote]

Nothing wrong with Berkeley, as long as you live near the UC campus, like me.

[quote]Does nobody here live in an apartment building?[/quote]
 
Yep, I do, and there is absolutely no noise that even comes close to that.  YOU have every right to feel bad?  Any idea when it happens?  Like when your neighbor is taking a shower or something?  What do you plan to do?  Ask them to fix it?  Move out?  Continue living there, but ask them to reduce the rent?  Ask them to terminate your lease without you giving up the deposit?  Do you have other apartments in mind that you can move into, if they let you terminate the lease?

KennyMan666

2005-10-25 06:04:18 pm

Precursor

That sounds almost like what I slept through for a number of months. We were renovating our kitchen, so we had to have a huge fan. I can't remember why exactly, though.

However.

It was completely constant, so before long, I got used to it.

...then we didn't need to have it anymore.

Had it been randomly activating and deactivating, though... no way I could've standed it.

Tub

2005-10-25 06:37:39 pm

m00

Quote:

Voices? I think you meant noises Tongue

Oops. I thought you heard voices that only you could hear (at least your landlord claimed they didn't exist), and that told you to violently stab someone whenever you tried to get some sleep.

But it's only noises. Come one. Could be worse. Tongue

.. I'll better go hide somewhere now.

Quote:

I have another appointment with a lawyer at 4pm tomorrow. Time to write a $300 check.

good luck.

Plumbing tip #297: If you insert just enough batting into a pipe, water flow will be silent.

RandomEngy

2005-10-26 08:30:25 am

A Crab

I had to comment because every time I see the thread it sounds like a dire warning or threat, and it's kind of funny picturing some movie villan saying "and the site will suffer."

About the noise: yeah turning on and off would be really annoying. If it were constant I'd probably stop caring.

Neboke

2005-10-26 09:26:31 am

Fight, Crocogator, for everlasting peace!

What the fuck should I do?

Terminate your contract with them, pay their greedy, asshole-ish butts however much is needed, and find a place that doesn't suck rat balls to live. >_> ... And have the next place tell someone else in the building to run water an' shit before you decide on it.

Apartment living sucks. Family lived in a good many in my early childhood years. c.c

Have 'fun' dealing with it. I'd suggest some o' them thar headphones that completely cover your ears combined with some good (loud?) music, but you can't exactly wear stuff like that 24/7 >>; Good luck, whatever you do.

Andrew Mills

2005-10-26 11:49:55 am

How old is the apartment building? The chances are if it's old the plumbing is just as old and may be sub-par to cope with today's modern requirements. Do other tennants experience the same noise levels as you when the plumbing is doing it's thing? If so, have they complained before? If they have as well and also got no joy, you could combine forces to get something done or take a joint-lawsuit to keep everyone's legal fees down and pile the pressure on. If it's only yourself that has complained, then it weakens any legal defence you might have, unless this problem is specific to only your apartment.

If you are constantly paying all that $$$ to see lawyers for simple consultations then I'd suggest cutting a deal with the landlords instead to move to another one of their apartments that doesn't have this problem. It's a reasonable request to make as well. Worth a shot at any rate and will not cost you a load of cash like talking to lawyers will (and don't forget that if you LOSE a legal case, you'll more than likely be made to cover your legal fees AND theirs as well, so bear that in mind)...

Good luck.

How old is the apartment building? The chances are if it's old the plumbing is just as old and may be sub-par to cope with today's modern requirements. Do other tennants experience the same noise levels as you when the plumbing is doing it's thing? If so, have they complained before? If they have as well and also got no joy, you could combine forces to get something done or take a joint-lawsuit to keep everyone's legal fees down and pile the pressure on. If it's only yourself that has complained, then it weakens any legal defence you might have, unless this problem is specific to only your apartment.

If you are constantly paying all that $$$ to see lawyers for simple consultations then I'd suggest cutting a deal with the landlords instead to move to another one of their apartments that doesn't have this problem. It's a reasonable request to make as well. Worth a shot at any rate and will not cost you a load of cash like talking to lawyers will (and don't forget that if you LOSE a legal case, you'll more than likely be made to cover your legal fees AND theirs as well, so bear that in mind)...

Good luck.

Brightstar

Edit history:

Brightstar: 2005-10-26 01:20:46 pm

2005-10-26 01:19:56 pm

There's no guarantee that the wouldn't screw you over again. If you're going to go with that plan, request a week before first payment so you can try out the place. If its no good, add that to what you're suing over. Either way, you should contact the better buisness buearo today.

Radix

2005-10-26 03:20:43 pm

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

If you are constantly paying all that $$$ to see lawyers for simple consultations

I haven't paid anything yet.

Juncti

Edit history:

Juncti: 2005-10-26 04:11:56 pm

2005-10-26 04:10:48 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

Then I got a letter saying that it's "normal operating paramters" and that I must have "extraordinary acute hearing".

.

That letter is likely your best defense. It shows that they are aware of the noise and not doing anything about it. Also their claim as to your capability of hearing could also work out. Make another tape, maybe a longer one to show the frequency of the noise. Maybe leave a small radio playing in the room as well so it is clear then drowned out by the noise. Then play the tape in court if you go that route. Once it's finished ask the court room for everyone who heard the noise to raise their hands. I doubt the apartment could argue an entire courtroom full of people all coicidentally have "acute hearing capability".

Not sure where the cap is on small claims court where you live, but you might also take them there and defend yourself.

Also, as suggested above, it wouldn't hurt to ask around to see if other people are dealing with it. If so gather them all together and let the landlord know they're all about to sure if it's not fixed.

Only way to scare a landlord into action is via their pocket book. If they stand to lose a ton of rent vs just fixing the problem. They're more likely to fix it.

I lived in a place with incredibly noisy people above me for about 9 months. Drove me nuts so I know what it's like. Landlord kept ignoring it, then I go to move out and they had the nerve to ask why I was leaving.

Lastly, although earplugs won't completely eliminate the noise, they can definately do a decent job at muffling it enough to help ease the pain. I got some 33db ones at WalMart, I could still hear the loudest of their noises, but a lot of the less severe noise was blocked out meaning I only got woken up a few times rather than constantly.

I'm pretty sure you'd win this case though. Just keep gathering evidence.

Oh, and definately file a claim with the BBB. That will at least piss them off a bit and they can't stop you.

[quote]

Then I got a letter saying that it's "normal operating paramters" and that I must have "extraordinary acute hearing".

.[/quote]

That letter is likely your best defense. It shows that they are aware of the noise and not doing anything about it. Also their claim as to your capability of hearing could also work out. Make another tape, maybe a longer one to show the frequency of the noise. Maybe leave a small radio playing in the room as well so it is clear then drowned out by the noise.  Then play the tape in court if you go that route. Once it's finished ask the court room for everyone who heard the noise to raise their hands. I doubt the apartment could argue an entire courtroom full of people all coicidentally have "acute hearing capability".

Not sure where the cap is on small claims court where you live, but you might also take them there and defend yourself.

Also, as suggested above, it wouldn't hurt to ask around to see if other people are dealing with it. If so gather them all together and let the landlord know they're all about to sure if it's not fixed.

Only way to scare a landlord into action is via their pocket book. If they stand to lose a ton of rent vs just fixing the problem. They're more likely to fix it.

I lived in a place with incredibly noisy people above me for about 9 months. Drove me nuts so I know what it's like. Landlord kept ignoring it, then I go to move out and they had the nerve to ask why I was leaving.

Lastly, although earplugs won't completely eliminate the noise, they can definately do a decent job at muffling it enough to help ease the pain. I got some 33db ones at WalMart, I could still hear the loudest of their noises, but a lot of the less severe noise was blocked out meaning I only got woken up a few times rather than constantly.

I'm pretty sure you'd win this case though. Just keep gathering evidence.

Oh, and definately file a claim with the BBB. That will at least piss them off a bit and they can't stop you.

xeen

2005-10-26 09:54:44 pm

Either way I wish you good luck if you plan going to court in the USA. If it's a big company it's probably not that good since (afiak) it doesn't matter whoever is right, but has the better arguments (...lawyers...). Unlike in Germany the US courts don't want to find out the truth themselves rather than depending on what the lawyers bring in, it'll be hard for you to prove you're right.
I hope you find a suitable solution to this. The probably best solution would be to make a deal and search for a new appartment or something, since even if they'd give you 40% off the normal rent you still couldn't sleep well. (if there's no other solution the community could start flameing on this company as well if it's more or less well-known)

Acryte

Edit history:

Acryte: 2005-10-26 10:19:41 pm

2005-10-26 10:18:30 pm

Zelda Scientist®

Hey Radix, I don't have a credit card, but PM me your address and I'll send you $100-150 right now. I say we all pitch in to help him out!

jimsfriend

2005-10-26 10:40:22 pm

Like A Fox

You could also see your doctor for a hearing test and ask them to measure for "incredible acuteness" or if your hearing is just average.

Radix

2005-10-26 11:25:16 pm

I'm addicted to games

Quote:

You could also see your doctor for a hearing test and ask them to measure for "incredible acuteness" or if your hearing is just average.

What doctor? I don't have any insurance since I've been working part time for 3 years.

I interviewed for a full-time job last week ... I was hopefull, seemed like a great small company to work for. Turned down for "not enough experience". Not my fucking month.

I paid the $300... it covers the attorney calling/writing my landlord and explaing the issues, that they're breaking the lease not me, and that if they don't fix it I'll probably just move out.

Time to look for a new apartment ... again. :-[

InsaneB4st4rd

2005-10-26 11:39:10 pm

Still alive...

well it cant be worse than this one, now can it?

Tub

2005-10-27 01:00:55 am

m00

Quote:

Time to look for a new apartment ... again. :-[

no idea how the residential market is at your place, but I'd try to see that positive. sure it's unpleasant, but staying and relying on the landlord doesn't seem to work out.

Brightstar

2005-10-27 02:58:18 am

you know, if you've got any family around, this may be the time to ask for some help, unless you're trying to prove something.

Neboke

2005-10-27 07:12:45 pm

Fight, Crocogator, for everlasting peace!

Quote:

well it cant be worse than this one, now can it?

*snerk* I would hope not. >_>

"Hi, I just moved from a royal hellhole with jerkass landlord(s) and I'd like to try and trump that. Does this apartment come with a man who follows me around shouting obscenities 24/7?"

DK64_MASTER

2005-10-27 07:35:00 pm

Quote:

*snerk* I would hope not. >_>

"Hi, I just moved from a royal hellhole with jerkass landlord(s) and I'd like to try and trump that. Does this apartment come with a man who follows me around shouting obscenities 24/7?"

LOL, but see, you can "quieten" the man, but not the noise Radix is experiencing.

7 0 x 7

2005-10-27 10:45:23 pm

ouch!

if there is anything i can do, let me know. I'll be praying for everything to work out for you Radix, I hope you can get your stress lvl down to a reasonable lvl, its not healthy. keep your head up bud.

InsaneB4st4rd

2005-10-27 11:26:50 pm

Still alive...

Quote:

LOL, but see, you can "quieten" the man, but not the noise Radix is experiencing.

The way i would "quieten" the man, would make him even louder.....

Anyway, you can turn off that noise quite easyli (spelling?). Buy some C4 put it on the wall, one loud noise, and voila, its gone.

No seriusly, isnt there a "association against loud noise" or something in america? I mean, you cant be the only one with such a fucked up apartement. And why is no one else complaining? You MUST hear this noise thingy at least on more than 3 floors.