The Neverhood (PSX and PC)

TheBarrel

Edit history:

TheBarrel: 2013-12-05 12:21:17 pm

2013-12-03 03:19:13 pm

It's weather time!

I have seen this game mentioned quite a few times on the forums but haven't seen an actual thread dedicated to The Neverhood. I've been working on some single segment runs lately and have been emulating the Japanese PS1 version to see if I should invest in that version (I will for some big reasons that I'll say later on).

The idea for speed running a point n' click PC game came when I finally bought my copy of MYST and was getting into a Pn'C high of sorts - revisiting games I played as a kid. I've seen very few runs of the game and want to see if anyone else would be interested in running The Neverhood, or at least discussing it.

As soon as I can find a legitimate copy I want to start running the Japanese PS1 version for quite a few reasons.

-That version runs at 30 fps instead of the PC version's 15fps
-Klayman walks faster normally
-Overworld travel is significantly faster (almost triple the speed)
-No Hall of Records (which shaves 12 minutes off the run right there)

The downside to the PS1 version is that loading times in the PS1 version are obnoxiously abundant, but , thankfully, bearably short. That and loading/saving is slower with the PS1 hardware, but you can cancel animations with the triggers so you won't need it for that in this version.

Just to give a bit of context, I'll link you to a segemented run preview done by someone here on SDA (I hope they don't mind me linking it):

The game is really linear so optimization comes more from abusing saves/loads, completing the puzzles quickly and some other very minor things throughout a run. So to anyone familiar with the game do you have any thoughts on running it? Also, do you know a good place to find a legitimate copy of the Japanese version?

Thread title:

I have seen this game mentioned quite a few times on the forums but haven't seen an actual thread dedicated to The Neverhood. I've been working on some single segment runs lately and have been emulating the Japanese PS1 version to see if I should invest in that version (I will for some big reasons that I'll say later on).

The idea for speed running a point n' click PC game came when I finally bought my copy of MYST and was getting into a Pn'C high of sorts - revisiting games I played as a kid. I've seen very few runs of the game and want to see if anyone else would be interested in running The Neverhood, or at least discussing it.

As soon as I can find a legitimate copy I want to start running the Japanese PS1 version for quite a few reasons.

[hidden]-That version runs at 30 fps instead of the PC version's 15fps
-Klayman walks faster normally
-Overworld travel is significantly faster (almost triple the speed)
-No Hall of Records (which shaves 12 minutes off the run right there)
[/hidden]

The downside to the PS1 version is that loading times in the PS1 version are obnoxiously abundant, but , thankfully, bearably short. That and loading/saving is slower with the PS1 hardware, but you can cancel animations with the triggers so you won't need it for that in this version.

Just to give a bit of context, I'll link you to a segemented run preview done by someone here on SDA (I hope they don't mind me linking it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjY5Quf3Rbk

The game is really linear so optimization comes more from abusing saves/loads, completing the puzzles quickly and some other very minor things throughout a run. So to anyone familiar with the game do you have any thoughts on running it? Also, do you know a good place to find a legitimate copy of the Japanese version?

codaMaestoso

Edit history:

codaMaestoso: 2013-12-04 05:49:57 am

2013-12-04 05:24:07 am

I love the Neverhood games, Skullmonkeys is the one I have played the most. I would definitely watch a single segment run, and I understand why you would pick the Japanese version especially because of Hall of Records.

I don't know if you dislike Ebay, but there are a few ones on there now, both new and used

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KLAYMEN-KLAYMEN-Sony-Playstation-PS-Japanese-Import-Japan-US-SELLER-/321244334572?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item4acba789ec

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Playstation-Klaymen-Klaymen-NEW-Japan-Import-PS-PS1-/121214241963?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1c38ee8cab

TheBarrel

2013-12-05 08:44:09 am

It's weather time!

Thanks a lot. I don't really have a problem with Ebay if the seller seems legit.

CacheLine

2013-12-10 09:12:14 am

I sank so many hours into the PC version of this as a kid... it's probably one of the oldest CDs I still own. Very interesting to see someone try to single-segment this. Best of luck to you.

How do you plan to deal with the fact that puzzle solutions are randomly generated? One thing I do remember was having to trash my notes from previous playthroughs every time I played through the game. Do you know when the solutions are generated (first time you go to do the puzzle, game start, etc.), or are the PS1 version's puzzles static?

It seems like you could save a ton of sidetracking and note taking by figuring out how to manipulate the puzzle solutions, especially for things like freeing Bil or the potion mixing. If you can't do that, it seems like you'd gain a lot by coming up with a good way to quickly record/screencap puzzle hints.

TheBarrel

Edit history:

TheBarrel: 2013-12-12 12:16:15 pm

TheBarrel: 2013-12-10 12:02:03 pm

2013-12-10 12:01:09 pm

It's weather time!

Puzzles are kind of interesting. Manipulating them is a bit difficult seeing as if you manipulate, let's say, the radio station to be the very first one (after the default "Low Down Doe"), then you might be messing up the RNG for something much bigger like the 12 symbols puzzle. Or vise versa. The game just randomly loads everything all from the start, so entering a room on a certain frame to manipulate RNG or something wouldn't exactly work like it does for most games.

The funny thing is that this game is mostly execution based more so than planning seeing as the game's pretty linear. Getting a good slide puzzle, for instance, is way more time saving than getting good RNG in some cases.

For the Bil puzzle. What I do is I save in front of the memory puzzle in the red building. I then make my way to the blue area with Bil while picking up everything in my path (that's important to not leave anything). I then go to the screen in the blue area that tells you what symbols you have to take note of in the memory puzzle and then save on a different slot. I load the save where I'm in front of the memory puzzle and click every tile on the puzzle and only take note of the ones necessary for the Bil puzzle. Load the save where I'm standing in front of the Bil puzzle and put in the number on the dice. Saving and loading takes a bit more time than the PC version, but it still saves time from backtracking. Like I said there's a lot of save/load abusing going on.

I have a different way of handling each puzzle in terms of memorization, but at this point the only things I still need to take note of are the 12 symbols, the growth formula, and the aforementioned symbols for the Bil puzzle. Things like the cannon symbols I can usually get a glance at and memorize it.

Puzzles are kind of interesting. Manipulating them is a bit difficult seeing as if you manipulate, let's say, the radio station to be the very first one (after the default "Low Down Doe"), then you might be messing up the RNG for something much bigger like the 12 symbols puzzle. Or vise versa. The game just randomly loads everything all from the start, so entering a room on a certain frame to manipulate RNG or something wouldn't exactly work like it does for most games.

The funny thing is that this game is mostly execution based more so than planning seeing as the game's pretty linear. Getting a good slide puzzle, for instance, is way more time saving than getting good RNG in some cases.

For the Bil puzzle. What I do is I save in front of the memory puzzle in the red building. I then make my way to the blue area with Bil while picking up everything in my path (that's important to not leave anything). I then go to the screen in the blue area that tells you what symbols you have to take note of in the memory puzzle and then save on a different slot. I load the save where I'm in front of the memory puzzle and click every tile on the puzzle and only take note of the ones necessary for the Bil puzzle. Load the save where I'm standing in front of the Bil puzzle and put in the number on the dice. Saving and loading takes a bit more time than the PC version, but it still saves time from backtracking. Like I said there's a lot of save/load abusing going on.

I have a different way of handling each puzzle in terms of memorization, but at this point the only things I still need to take note of are the 12 symbols, the growth formula, and the aforementioned symbols for the Bil puzzle. Things like the cannon symbols I can usually get a glance at and memorize it.