The Mega Man 9 topic

nate

2008-10-04 11:26:11 am

nothing stopping us from accepting both here.

Satoryu

Edit history:

Satoryu: 2008-10-04 12:41:00 pm

2008-10-04 12:35:02 pm

Visually Appealing

Quote from xXAlucard:

rant

i know damn well that guy used a NG+ file and bought M Tanks and other things up the wazoo. everyone on the Top 10 does. i was just skeptical at how hefty the time difference between #1 and #2 was. it's more than just perfecting every thing. he must be doing something we don't know about that's making that huge difference.

i've yet to see cord's new run, so i'm unsure if the M Can trick is really helpful. i think refilling ammo is too precious a thing to pass up. existing runs already use M Cans and Spike Breakers and the half damage powerup.

don't be quick to judge me. i'm not stupid.

Quote from xXAlucard:

I don't care if a 5 minute all clear run appears...if someone's first thought is instantly "CHEATING! OBVIOUSLY!" then that person sadly is a "noob" at heart.

in this game, there'd be no other way to get that time without cheating. it's a horrible example.

cord

2008-10-04 01:07:20 pm

22:07 is possible. If you look at my run, there are many ways to improve the 8-stage time, at least like 15 seconds. As for my Wily time, clearing 1min faster is a definite possibility. Just remember the guy with the top spot is on the top 10 on Wily 4, meaning he's gotta be pretty damn good at the toughest part of the run.

As for the 999 screws, it doesn't help that much. I'm sure I could manage a run with this time without it, it would just take me longer. The 8 stages would end up 20-30 seconds slower at most, and you only need an M tank (and maybe an E tank / shock guard for ease) for the Wily stretch. My Wily run was far from great there, if I gave it more time it could be much better. In this particular run, I actually just wanted to abuse the 999 screws as much as possible, even if it wasn't necessary (to stress the fact that they're available, and hold untapped potential).

Playing a non NG+ file, single segment is a different beast, though.

spook

2008-10-04 01:18:28 pm

Yes, a ninja riding a tiger.

Quote from nate:

nothing stopping us from accepting both here.

Which is what I was hoping for. Smiley

Lucid Faia

2008-10-04 02:22:37 pm

Yeah, I said it.

Quote from cord:

Playing a non NG+ file, single segment is a different beast, though.

Indeed. I want to see a single segment Mr. Perfect speedrun. =)

Robiin

2008-10-04 02:36:42 pm

Welcome new Galaxy!

Quote from Lucid Faia:

I want to see a single segment Mr. Perfect speedrun. =)

OMG. That would be insane.

Non TAS
Mr Perfect
Single segment

Ever?

Satoryu

2008-10-04 03:29:14 pm

Visually Appealing

very nice run cord. i love the extra uses of Concrete Shot. still, some strategies look slower than others.

Quote from cord:

22:07 is possible. If you look at my run, there are many ways to improve the 8-stage time, at least like 15 seconds. As for my Wily time, clearing 1min faster is a definite possibility. Just remember the guy with the top spot is on the top 10 on Wily 4, meaning he's gotta be pretty damn good at the toughest part of the run.

i dunno. while there are a lot of mistakes, i'm having a hard time imagining there being over a minute's worth of mistakes. i guess killing the Twin Devil in one phase makes a lot of that difference.

so yeah, the 22 minute run doesn't sound so unbelievable now as it did when Wasuremono was the only person with a time under 24 minutes. he ain't cheating, he's probably just a Japanese superplayer. so xxAlucard, get off my back!

Sir VG

2008-10-04 03:34:10 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from Lucid Faia:

Quote from cord:

Playing a non NG+ file, single segment is a different beast, though.

Indeed. I want to see a single segment Mr. Perfect speedrun. =)

No way in hell I'm doing that. Tongue

Nihilus

2008-10-04 04:53:16 pm

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=950953&topic=45761459
Boco47 explains how to sign up for a niconico account for anyone who wants to see the videos Burning_Death posted and can't read japanese.

Tiki

2008-10-04 05:23:09 pm

I don't even know what the fuck this is

mr. perfect is not getting hit, right? I could do that, I did it with megaman x3.

nate

2008-10-04 05:28:51 pm

i would be surprised if you couldn't.

andrewg

2008-10-04 05:42:02 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

I think I want to get #1 for a few levels and maybe do a full game speedrun eventually. I need to buy a wii or something.

Arrow

2008-10-04 06:16:57 pm

Now a hit show on the CW

Quote from Nihilus:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=950953&topic=45761459
Boco47 explains how to sign up for a niconico account for anyone who wants to see the videos Burning_Death posted and can't read japanese.

Thanks for that. Haven't watched all of the videos yet, but the ones I've seen so far are incredible. I guess C. Shot works pretty well on the dragon mini-boss in Magma Man's stage.

cord

2008-10-04 10:06:15 pm

Thanks Nihilus! The vids are very helpful. I'll just do enough to break 22.xx with my current save, then make a new one. If I can ever get around wasuremono's time I'll be happy. I won't bother doing single segment until I have a better recording setup, though.

Nihilus

Edit history:

Nihilus: 2008-10-05 02:06:11 pm

2008-10-05 03:47:47 am

Wily Castle 3 glitch.....

When entering the floaty parts, ~~mash jump at the screen transition. I'm sure there's a timing to it, but I'm in no mood to figure it out~~ hold down the jump button. Once the next section starts, you get pushed up some distance instantly if you did it right, up to about half of MM's height, which is quite a bit of time considering how slow you move. Seems to only work if you enter the room with upward velocity, like that velocity carries over for a few frames, and we're all already jumping at the last second to start as high as possible. This trick has already pushed my time for that section from 2:04:00, to an imperfect 2:02:xx, so I'm sure I can get mine down at least to 2:01:xx.

transience

2008-10-05 05:31:25 pm

trust the fungus

I've spent the last day and some reading this entire thread - pretty good stuff from all of you. I enjoyed VG's run despite the mistakes - yay single segment!

two things: one, I'm sure that an SDA run would be single-segment, and that it probably won't touch the leaderboard times since there's no penalty for saving and retrying endlessly until you get an acceptable run for each level. you can experiment a lot more in small segments.

and two, maybe I'm being overly purist here, but the amount of micro-management allowed thanks to in-game time stopping in menus makes me wonder if these are really "faster". like, is it really a 1:30 run if you spent 45 seconds flipping through items in menus and cancelling out attacks and etc? I'd be curious to see if the fastest in-game time is actually the fastest pure time. I get the feeling it isn't.

don't mean to cause an argument, but that's how I feel whenever I watch these single-segment levels that are four minutes long despite the in-game time being like 1:45 or something. I imagine SDA will just go by in-game time anyway.

I've spent the last day and some reading this entire thread - pretty good stuff from all of you. I enjoyed VG's run despite the mistakes - yay single segment!

two things: one, I'm sure that an SDA run would be single-segment, and that it probably won't touch the leaderboard times since there's no penalty for saving and retrying endlessly until you get an acceptable run for each level. you can experiment a lot more in small segments.

and two, maybe I'm being overly purist here, but the amount of micro-management allowed thanks to in-game time stopping in menus makes me wonder if these are really "faster". like, is it really a 1:30 run if you spent 45 seconds flipping through items in menus and cancelling out attacks and etc? I'd be curious to see if the fastest in-game time is actually the fastest pure time. I get the feeling it isn't.

don't mean to cause an argument, but that's how I feel whenever I watch these single-segment levels that are four minutes long despite the in-game time being like 1:45 or something. I imagine SDA will just go by in-game time anyway.

Cauldrath

2008-10-05 05:38:51 pm

The baddle haz jusd begunn!

That screen transition thing makes me think that the game is run using time-based movement, rather than frame-based, and the timer isn't being updated during the screen transition. So it thinks the screen transition is a really laggy frame and speeds up the movement to compensate for it. Maybe there are other ways to take advantage of that? Maybe if you lag the game enough you can clip through walls or something.

Satoryu

2008-10-05 05:46:02 pm

Visually Appealing

screen transitions are timed. the only things not timed are the pause menu, the stage select, the shop, cutscenes, and boss enterances. in that last case, timing stops when you're inside the boss room and starts whn you regain control.

xXIkuto

2008-10-05 08:41:51 pm

Quote from transience:

don't mean to cause an argument, but that's how I feel whenever I watch these single-segment levels that are four minutes long despite the in-game time being like 1:45 or something. I imagine SDA will just go by in-game time anyway.

Yeah SDA will use the in game timer (I would hope) because if it actually counted pure time, it would be like an arbitrary thing, and no runner would want to actually sit there and plan which thing is worth not screen transitioning for (Would end up being a bunch of things) and would limit the run to having to take a ton of slow routes and remove 95% of the strategy behind the power of weapon canceling.

Plus I've never been a fan of timing people while they have to switch things in the menu, since it's like a trivial thing (not really part of the gameplay imo)...and limiting that whenever possible is something I'd hope for :). I feel bad for the RE4 runners that have to deal with being timed buying stuff :(.

Imagine having milisecond battles with people on MM9 just because they could get in and out of the switch screen faster...I don't think anyone would be a fan of that Sad

[quote="transience"]

don't mean to cause an argument, but that's how I feel whenever I watch these single-segment levels that are four minutes long despite the in-game time being like 1:45 or something. I imagine SDA will just go by in-game time anyway.
[/quote]

Yeah SDA will use the in game timer (I would hope) because if it actually counted pure time, it would be like an arbitrary thing, and no runner would want to actually sit there and plan which thing is worth not screen transitioning for (Would end up being a bunch of things) and would limit the run to having to take a ton of slow routes and remove 95% of the strategy behind the power of weapon canceling.

Plus I've never been a fan of timing people while they have to switch things in the menu, since it's like a trivial thing (not really part of the gameplay imo)...and limiting that whenever possible is something I'd hope for :).  I feel bad for the RE4 runners that have to deal with being timed buying stuff :(.

Imagine having milisecond battles with people on MM9 just because they could get in and out of the switch screen faster...I don't think anyone would be a fan of that :(

Sir VG

2008-10-05 09:37:36 pm

Fucking Weeaboo

The ruling on timing has generally been "if there's a timer, it's accurate, and it's displayed at the end, it's used". So I would see no reason why the timer displayed after the credits would not be used.

Vugmer

2008-10-05 09:52:22 pm

Cigar Man

I've always preferred using real time, even if the game has an accurate in-game timer.

Tiki

2008-10-05 10:10:22 pm

I don't even know what the fuck this is

The problem is, any SDA MM9 run that uses real time wouldn't have ANY merit outside the SDA community. The strategies would be completely different.

cord

2008-10-05 10:45:27 pm

@Nihilus: Yeah, I knew that. Probably should've mentioned it. I noticed since if you let go of jump, you fall a bit, which kills like a second.

Tips on the bosses: I can down the devils in Wily 3 in one phase consistently now. Just learn when to first pause, nail him 4 times on the ground, but as you shoot the last shot, jump. It'll mean your next quick detonation will be in his range, which is necessary because jumping after is too slow.

Also, for Wily 4: it's pretty damn ugly, but pause spam makes the final form much easier. Even if he constantly floats above you, you can nail him with at least 2 P.Balls. Also, note that you can hit him with 1 before he first disappears (when he's on the top-right) with R.Coil.

Nihilus

2008-10-05 10:51:26 pm

If it were up to me, I would go by the game timer on the stipulation that the video would be rejected if they clearly waste time in menus just for the sake of goofing off, but no dedicated speedrunner would do that anyways.

mikwuyma

2008-10-05 11:22:15 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote from Lord_VG:

The ruling on timing has generally been "if there's a timer, it's accurate, and it's displayed at the end, it's used". So I would see no reason why the timer displayed after the credits would not be used.

This.

I could make a real-time run a separate category, but I honestly don't think there would be enough demand for it since everyone is obsessed with the leaderboards. Also, a lot of creative weapon usage would be omitted since switching weapons in the menu takes up time.

Oh, and I know this is been mentioned before, but just to reiterate, New game and New game+ (999 bolts) runs are separate categories.