The Mega Man 9 topic

2009-08-22 02:57:57 am

I don't even know what the fuck this is

holy fucking shit, those are amazing runs dude. Great to see this game alive again.

BTW, this is kind of off topic, but are you the guy with the 36:39 Mega Man 3 run on nicovideo? If so, is that a single-segment run?

GameKube64

2009-08-22 08:43:45 am

Amazing runs aqwawaf! Glad to see someone beating the world records again! Smiley

Ifrit

2009-08-22 10:09:55 pm

great runs!

agwawaf

2009-08-23 08:04:23 am

Thanks for some comments !

Quote from Tiki:

BTW, this is kind of off topic, but are you the guy with the 36:39 Mega Man 3 run on nicovideo? If so, is that a single-segment run?

yea, that's single-segment run.

Quote from MegaDestructor9:

I watched all your runs agwawaf. You have some serious skill. I hope you keep competing to beat all my records. 2 down 11 to go. This game is a speedrunners dream. So many tricks and such skill to execute them.

Thanks, But I am busy now. Therefore I can't keep playing the game. I am going to play February or March again.

Toothache

2009-08-23 12:27:01 pm

Let the music play!

Quote from MegaDestructor9:

My all clear record is 19:35

Any chance we could see an all-clear video soon? Or are you trying to push this time below 19:30?

Tiki

2009-08-23 02:44:49 pm

I don't even know what the fuck this is

Quote from agwawaf:

yea, that's single-segment run.

Shit. I'm 9 seconds off.

Satoryu

Edit history:

Satoryu: 2009-08-23 09:28:53 pm

2009-08-23 09:03:39 pm

Visually Appealing

agwawaf, those videos were awesome.

MD9, i can't wait for you to get a new WR time on tape and send it here. i've been running NG+ myself, and i'd love to see how it's supposed to be done. i've been using your ILs for tips, but my level times are always at least 5 seconds behind yours. there's some shit i just can't do, like Concrete Zips.

before Wily, i'm in the ball park of 50 seconds behind you, meaning i can't get under 20 minutes. but i have a pretty damn good chance of getting the #2 spot on the Wii board. the #1 time of 16:12 is hacked.

for those curious, the first 8 stages are on my Youtube.

Mr. K

2009-08-27 10:43:33 am

Yes

That was incredible MD9! Congratulations on taking back the record. Also, do you think that you could use rush coil and switch to rush jet in midair like that in any of the other stages?

Satoryu

2009-08-27 11:33:07 am

Visually Appealing

i'm happy that you got the Clock Flower to show up in the proper spot this time.

Master ZED

2009-08-27 11:52:16 am

Quote from Mr. K:

That was incredible MD9! Congratulations on taking back the record. Also, do you think that you could use rush coil and switch to rush jet in midair like that in any of the other stages?

He could try that for zipping through the ceiling in Magma Man's stage after the Changkey Dragon... though TBH, I couldn't get it to work myself.

<- didn't try very hard

DK28

2009-08-27 04:08:39 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from MegaDestructor9:

Special Stage World Record: 1:48:58 -

I kept playing till I reclaimed the world record. It was a long session - 8 hours or so. I really needed to improve this stage anyway. There's room for improvement of course but it won't be easy to beat.

Crazy good MD9.

You need to complete a full game run now.

Hattori HANZo

2009-08-27 05:11:06 pm

contraddicted

Quote from MegaDestructor9:

Special Stage World Record: 1:48:58

If I were a woman, I'd definitely want to marry you now.

Wodanaz

2009-08-27 06:00:44 pm

Quote from Master ZED:

zipping through the ceiling in Magma Man's stage after the Changkey Dragon... though TBH, I couldn't get it to work myself.

I tried this for a while myself and can't get it to work either. On my best attempts I managed to get a couple pixels into the second tier of the ceiling before it ejected me back out (this was by starting a jump right before the screen transition). I think you would have to get much deeper in before it would let you stay in the wall. I also tried hitting TBlow or CShot right after the transition but neither got me anywhere.

paulbreen

2009-08-30 01:19:18 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from MegaDestructor9:

Special Stage 1:47:65 WORLD RECORD -

Fixed.

Sidonex

2009-08-30 09:54:34 pm

Quote from MegaDestructor9:

Special Stage 1:47:65 -

I want to watch it so bad but I can't!(Dial-Up) It's kind of ironic, I've been encouraging Special Stage time attacking from the beginning and now that you take it seriously I can't watch it.

By the way, double zipping has MAJOR potential. I can do it about 1/3 of the time, which is still sad. A double zip in itself saves .24 seconds although it seems to have holes at first, so here are solutions in question and answer form.

1. Can't you only do it on small ledges like in the beginning of concrete or jewel man?
That's what I thought at first, but on any normal ledge in order to double zip on it you simply throw a c shot on the side of the ledge or slightly in front of it, you then jump on the c shot you just threw and use it as a platform so you can double zip on the desired ledge.

2. But doing that takes 3 c shots, why would I want to do that when I could just use those 3 c shots to do 3 individual zips, and therefore save more time?
That's the logical choice, but I say why not do both?

3. How?
Well, a level like tornado man would be perfect because you have enough extra c shot ammo to do double zips. But, most the time this isn't the case. So the only option would be to try and manipulate drops, or in my case, get lucky. It seems like a lot of work now, but the fruits of your labor would be most worth it.(Or you could wait until this game is TASed to see it, less work.)

This seemed simpler, but now that I look at it, it just seems like I'm talking to myself.

[quote="MegaDestructor9"]
Special Stage 1:47:65 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqjH1thpx8I
[/quote]

I want to watch it so bad but I can't!(Dial-Up) It's kind of ironic, I've been encouraging Special Stage time attacking from the beginning and now that you take it seriously I can't watch it.

By the way, double zipping has MAJOR potential. I can do it about 1/3 of the time, which is still sad. A double zip in itself saves .24 seconds although it seems to have holes at first, so here are solutions in question and answer form.

1. Can't you only do it on small ledges like in the beginning of concrete or jewel man? 
 That's what I thought at first, but on any normal ledge in order to double zip on it you simply throw a c shot on the side of the ledge or slightly in front of it, you then jump on the c shot you just threw and use it as a platform so you can double zip on the desired ledge.

2. But doing that takes 3 c shots, why would I want to do that when I could just use those 3 c shots to do 3 individual zips, and therefore save more time?
 That's the logical choice, but I say why not do both?

3. How?
 Well, a level like tornado man would be perfect because you have enough extra c shot ammo to do double zips. But, most the time this isn't the case. So the only option would be to try and manipulate drops, or in my case, get lucky. It seems like a lot of work now, but the fruits of your labor would be most worth it.(Or you could wait until this game is TASed to see it, less work.)

This seemed simpler, but now that I look at it, it just seems like I'm talking to myself.

andrewg

2009-10-07 02:46:03 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Not much discussion on this lately. Guess MD9 scared everyone away. Wink

mannnn... I totally want to take another shot at speedrunning this. If I had any of the newer systems I would, just can't afford em' at the moment. :/ I'm just sad I can't play this. I'm fairly sure I could beat a few of the records (Though my boss battle skills lack in comparison to my platforming abilities).

Maybe in like 2 years... Tongue

Well, I think what I'm going to do is settle with the old megamans. I'll probably do a MM speedrun on NES fairly soon.

Also, any word on the "secret" in mm9 the creators said no one found?

Red_Shifter

2009-10-07 04:28:01 pm

yes, an iron knuckle riding a mechanical horse

the secret is that mm9 is made of PEOPLE

Seriously though, good work on getting the flower to show up in the right place this time around. That has to be more about dedication than anything else.

Master ZED

2009-10-07 05:18:35 pm

Quote from andrewg:

Not much discussion on this lately. Guess MD9 scared everyone away. Wink

Not entirely, but that run's just not something fit for SDA.

I've been considering a Proto Man run over the past couple of days, as Mega Man 8 got me used to sliding... but mostly because I cannot run 8 right now due to a bad controller (so don't place any bets on this run coming to fruition, as I'll likely get a new controller before I finish). I can get by well enough that I can definitely do a Proto Man run, but there are a few questions I need answers for:

1. What should the plan be for energy consumption in Wily Castle? I've been coming at this one randomly and don't yet have an idea worth sticking to.

2. Do I want to take the SDA-approved route in Splash Woman's bubble puzzle?

That's the big question. If I use the old boss route, I have to use Proto Jet on the last screen, which scares the shit out of me. If I take the new one, I'll be rejected for not using Tornado Blow on the last screen, which I can't do. If I don't do either, the verifiers will come down on me harder than they would anyone other than MD9 and the run will have to go to YouTube. This and the last stretch of WC3 are going to be the hardest parts of the run to get SDA approval for, the latter because it suddenly turns into a Mr. Perfect run for a minute. That will be forgiven as long as I'm not a snail, I'm sure, but individual stage practice will be required anyway.

3. Would the run be a failure if I pick up an Energy Tank? I'm thinking yes. That's a scary thought with Wily, but lacking a security blanket may be the only way to get a Proto Man run on the site. That makes energy consumption that much harder to plan.

I think what killed the potential for MM9 runs wasn't MD9's skill, but the expectations post-MD9. I'm never going to obsolete my NG SS run because I don't want to use Concrete zips, I don't want to use something like RC+TB on the last floating platform part of Splash, and other little things that make trying to do a run now heart attack-inducing. Even if I got under 21 minutes, would I be accepted? No. Not in a million years if I'm missing those things. Proto Man is actually an escape of sorts since zipping with him would be stupid given sliding, and I don't have to do the Coil trick at the beginning of Tornado Man thanks to always having Proto Jet. This may, in time, be seen as the easy mode when running 9... though being capable of nailing the Mr. Perfect Challenge could probably be considered a prerequisite due to the double damage & knockback.

We're locked in a MP3: Corruption-type stasis now as a result. Easy to beat, easy to run, but due to self-imposed crap, too hard to produce something SDA-worthy. It makes me wonder if we ought to consider taking great runs that may not include every single trick in order to inspire someone that can. I tried to do that with the 21:37, though, and that failed miserably, so no. :\

Quote from andrewg:

Also, any word on the "secret" in mm9 the creators said no one found?

The creators didn't say shit. The "secret" is all Seth Killian over at that Capcom-Unity site. For all we know, the secret is that inked Mega Man is a reference to GTA: San Andreas.

[quote="andrewg"]
Not much discussion on this lately. Guess MD9 scared everyone away.  ;)[/quote]
[url=http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&pi=74&gi=7806&vi=46413]Not entirely[/url], but that run's just not something fit for SDA.

I've been considering a Proto Man run over the past couple of days, as Mega Man 8 got me used to sliding... but mostly because I cannot run 8 right now due to a bad controller (so don't place any bets on this run coming to fruition, as I'll likely get a new controller before I finish).  I can get by well enough that I can definitely do a Proto Man run, but there are a few questions I need answers for:

1. What should the plan be for energy consumption in Wily Castle?  I've been coming at this one randomly and don't yet have an idea worth sticking to.

2. Do I want to take the SDA-approved route in Splash Woman's bubble puzzle?

That's the big question.  If I use the old boss route, I have to use Proto Jet on the last screen, which scares the shit out of me.  If I take the new one, I'll be rejected for not using Tornado Blow on the last screen, which I can't do.  If I don't do either, the verifiers will come down on me harder than they would anyone other than MD9 and the run will have to go to YouTube.  This and the last stretch of WC3 are going to be the hardest parts of the run to get SDA approval for, the latter because it suddenly turns into a Mr. Perfect run for a minute.  That will be forgiven as long as I'm not a snail, I'm sure, but individual stage practice will be required anyway.

3. Would the run be a failure if I pick up an Energy Tank?  I'm thinking yes.  That's a scary thought with Wily, but lacking a security blanket may be the only way to get a Proto Man run on the site.  That makes energy consumption that much harder to plan.

I think what killed the potential for MM9 runs wasn't MD9's skill, but the expectations post-MD9.  I'm never going to obsolete my NG SS run because I don't want to use Concrete zips, I don't want to use something like RC+TB on the last floating platform part of Splash, and other little things that make trying to do a run now heart attack-inducing.  Even if I got under 21 minutes, would I be accepted?  No.  Not in a million years if I'm missing those things.  Proto Man is actually an escape of sorts since zipping with him would be stupid given sliding, and I don't have to do the Coil trick at the beginning of Tornado Man thanks to always having Proto Jet.  This may, in time, be seen as the easy mode when running 9... though being capable of nailing the Mr. Perfect Challenge could probably be considered a prerequisite due to the double damage & knockback.

We're locked in a MP3: Corruption-type stasis now as a result.  Easy to beat, easy to run, but due to self-imposed crap, too hard to produce something SDA-worthy.  It makes me wonder if we ought to consider taking great runs that may not include every single trick in order to inspire someone that can.  I tried to do that with the 21:37, though, and that failed miserably, so no. :\

[quote="andrewg"]Also, any word on the "secret" in mm9 the creators said no one found?
[/quote]The creators didn't say shit.  The "secret" is all Seth Killian over at that Capcom-Unity site.  For all we know, the secret is that inked Mega Man is a reference to GTA: San Andreas.

Satoryu

2009-10-07 05:45:09 pm

Visually Appealing

Do the new route.
Get an E Can if you feel you need it.
Don't use any T Blows prior to the shark.
Refill stuff if absolutely necessary, and if the weapon refill isn't too far away. (Only use one of the ones in the beginning of Wily 2.)
Pray for lucky drops.

Actually, could death abuse be worked in somehow so that you can have full WE an extra time in the Castle? Like get a game over at the beginning of Wily 3 or something. Assuming you lose the first batch of lives somewhere before that, of course.

thri11ki11

2009-10-07 06:02:42 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Quote from Master ZED:

It makes me wonder if we ought to consider taking great runs that may not include every single trick in order to inspire someone that can.

I think it's a great idea.

I think speedrunning is a lot of work, and definitely the individuals who discover great tricks and set precedents are going to dominate SDA. But I think that a run should be judged on its own merits. There are obviously a few caveats to this.

If a run is in a category that is established, I believe that if a new run is faster it should be put up, even if there are known ways to improve said run; if there is no established category and there should be one, then the run should be put up as long as it's not flawed in other ways. The detractors will say that it makes the site look "amateur," that the runs that are posted aren't of the finest quality, yadda yadda. I say exactly what Master ZED says; the run will, if nothing else, inspire others to beat it. I have watched runs on the site and thought, "yeah, I can beat this run or that one," and I've got a few runs queued to take a shot at because I can see possible improvements.

I don't think players should be forced to use strategies if their own strategy will get a time that will be a challenge to beat. If ZED were to take a shot at a Proto Man run, I say he should be allowed to do it, and should be allowed to do it as he sees fit. There isn't a Proto Man run up right now, so as long as the run is crisp and doesn't have any errors categorized above "minor," I'd see it as a welcome addition. If someone says "you can do this trick or that trick" and improve the run, then someone will obviously come along at some point and work really hard and do it.

That is my opinion, so don't treat me as though I believe I am extolling law.

[quote="Master ZED"]
It makes me wonder if we ought to consider taking great runs that may not include every single trick in order to inspire someone that can.
[/quote]

I think it's a great idea.

I think speedrunning is a lot of work, and definitely the individuals who discover great tricks and set precedents are going to dominate SDA.  But I think that a run should be judged on its own merits.  There are obviously a few caveats to this.

If a run is in a category that is established, I believe that if a new run is faster it should be put up, even if there are known ways to improve said run; if there is no established category and there should be one, then the run should be put up as long as it's not flawed in other ways.  The detractors will say that it makes the site look "amateur," that the runs that are posted aren't of the finest quality, yadda yadda.  I say exactly what Master ZED says; the run will, if nothing else, inspire others to beat it.  I have watched runs on the site and thought, "yeah, I can beat this run or that one," and I've got a few runs queued to take a shot at because I can see possible improvements.

I don't think players should be forced to use strategies if their own strategy will get a time that will be a challenge to beat.  If ZED were to take a shot at a Proto Man run, I say he should be allowed to do it, and should be allowed to do it as he sees fit.  There isn't a Proto Man run up right now, so as long as the run is crisp and doesn't have any errors categorized above "minor," I'd see it as a welcome addition.  If someone says "you can do this trick or that trick" and improve the run, then someone will obviously come along at some point and work really hard and do it.

That is my opinion, so don't treat me as though I believe I am extolling law.

Master ZED

2009-10-07 06:38:23 pm

Quote from Satoryu:

Actually, could death abuse be worked in somehow so that you can have full WE an extra time in the Castle? Like get a game over at the beginning of Wily 3 or something. Assuming you lose the first batch of lives somewhere before that, of course.

You can definitely lose lives very quickly at the beginning of Magma Man (you can die in like, < 2 seconds if I remember right). Two deaths to the lavaspikes there, no lucky 1-Up pickups, and a quick death by huge stomper at Wily 3 would be the definitive route for M-Tank simulation.

However, because I kinda wanted to throw this run to TG as well (I'm about to make the tracking request), I'll leave that kind of run to someone else. Besides, I think the chances of this creating a death abuse category are pretty good given the effects it has on the Wily Castle route.

DragonWarrior

2009-10-16 09:50:52 pm

Xfire: dragonwarrior66 6

I was actually going to pop in and ask if anyone was working on a minimalist run. Or if they were going to make other categories. I kinda wanted to run through it using only the MegaBuster in every place that I possible could. I've only played through a couple of times and I used items frequently, so I'm not sure if it'd be possible to do the entire game with just the MB but.

Master ZED

2009-10-16 11:13:10 pm

Quote from DragonWarrior:

I was actually going to pop in and ask if anyone was working on a minimalist run. Or if they were going to make other categories.

I... don't think SDA would want a Conservationist challenge run. As for categories, All Clear, Superhero, Proto Man SS/Segmented and individual levels are likely gonna be the only ones here (Hero Mode doesn't change enough to warrant a category).

A Conservationist speedrun would be interesting nonetheless if you were willing to upload it elsewhere. I abandoned a project for a perfect Conservationist run, but not before finishing the first eight stages. I can upload those if you think they'll help. Also, any guide covering challenges would tell you what you need to finish the castle since you can't clear stages 1, 2, or 4 without special weapons, like mine for instance (I need to finish the update sometime this year...).

DragonWarrior

2009-10-17 01:53:45 pm

Xfire: dragonwarrior66 6

Those videos would be of tremendous help to me and I would love to see them.

Even if SDA doesn't want a conversationalist type of run I'm still quite willing to do it. I'm sure at least SOMEONE out there would like to see it, and if not. Oh well Tongue

At least I know I can MB my way through the bosses.

Master ZED

2009-10-17 03:00:19 pm

Quote from DragonWarrior:

Those videos would be of tremendous help to me and I would love to see them.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MasterZED

Currently uploading. Since it's a perfect run, time is sacrificed in a few places to ensure safety, but I'm sure you can figure out where that comes into play.