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Edit history:
FionordeQuester: 2013-05-16 11:31:42 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-19 09:24:16 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-19 08:25:32 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-19 05:01:58 pm
So, I'm not actually planning on making a run to submit to SpeedDemosArchive, but I DO wish to do a Let's Play in which I 100% the game as fast I can in a reliable manner.  And I figured that while I was doing that, my routes and strategies might also help anyone who DOES want to do a 100% run of these games.  So, here's the route I cooked up so far, represented by some slightly edited notes marked below video links to TheonlyO's Any% Oracle of Ages run, off of whom my dungeon strategies are based off of...

Part 1: http://www.twitch.tv/theonly0/b/323923881
Part 2: http://www.twitch.tv/theonly0/b/323934694

I'm guessing the big ol' wall of text that are my notes aren't terribly exciting to look at though, so, I'll post some videos of the run I've already done using this route so you guys can see for yourself.  May make it easier on any runner trying to either make a run on my work, or improve upon my route, you know?




The Legend of Zelda Oracle of Ages:

Eternal Spirit:

1) Proceed through the story as normal until you get the Shovel.  Get the Piece of Heart, and get Gasha Seed from farmer.

Equipment: De-Equip Shovel before Ember.

2) Plant Gasha seed in Graveyard patch on the way to Dungeon 1.  Get Lvl-1 Power Ring and proceed as normal until you get the Power Bracelet, then Save + Quit to get to boss faster.

Ancient Wood:

1) Get Poe Clock, then enter Ring Shop and appraise Lvl-1 Power Ring.  Trade Poe Clock then Mail on the way to fairy forest.

2) Right, Down, fairy, left, up, down, up, down, up, fairy, up, fairy, and DONE!

3) Save + Quit after lifting up stone, and get Harp of Time.

4) Trade items, plant Gasha Seed near outhouse and get Heart Piece and Gasha Seed on the way to Strange Seeds.

5) You know the two places to Save + Quit on.

Echoing Howl:

1) Plant Gasha Seed and get Heart Piece in Talus Peaks, talk to Cheval, warp to present, and get items with Moosh.

2) Get Gasha prize from graveyard, get Ricky's Glove, go back to past, get Gasha prize next to outhouse, talk to kid, and get Tingle's Map before Save + Quitting again.

3) Get Shovel, Sword, get Power Bracelet, items and Gasha Seed, Roc's feather, items, Power Bracelet, item, get Power Bracelet back, get Harp of Time, plant Scent Seed Tree, and enter present.

4) Give Stink Bag to Tokay, get Scent Seeds, get shovel back, and enter Dungeon 3.

5) Keep switching first crystal until you get Seed Shooter, and finally get first crystal, then last crystal.

Burning Flame:

1) Get Strange Flute, give meat to Happy Mask Salesman, down, up, down, up to find Dimitri.  Pick up Dimitri, throw him down and make sure he's firmly on the ground before giving Dog Mask to Mammamu the dog lady, and talk to bridge man.

2) Find 1st bridge man, get ring from waterfall, then plant Gasha Seed in Ruun Plains before getting the rest of the men.

3) Talk to Tuni guardian, give dumbbell to slim jim, go to northeast house, go to northwest, get song from artist, and Save + Quit to get to Heart Piece slightly faster.

4) Switch water channels, get Bigger Bomb Bag, push seed plant, and go repair Tuner.  Warp back to village, and enter Dungeon 4.

5) Go to left side and Save + Quit once you get key.

6) In floating pot room, don't hookshot pots, but jump from platforms as the pots are.

Sacred Soil:

1) Travel to past, go to center of village, travel into future, give Cheesy Mustache to comic, go into the past, give Jokebook to sullen kid, get Gasha prize and replant Gasha.

2) Plant Gasha near Goron Cave, get Gold Joy Ring and Heart Piece before Great Moblin, get L-1 Armor Ring afterwards, Save + Quit, and enter Dungeon 5.

3) Get two Small keys from left path, Save + Quit, hit switch in main room, get Cane of Somaria from west room, and go through dungeon until you get the last key from the Cane of Somaria puzzle.  Then Save + Quit.

4) Get key from north room in main room, return to main room, then head east to kill miniboss, solve Cane of Somaria puzzle to get Boss Key, then Save + Quit and use miniboss teleporter to get to boss faster.

Bereft Peak: (From now on, you may have to take occasional trips to get Pegasus Seeds)

1) Plant Gasha near Mine Cart cave, Mine Cart until 999 Rupees, get seeds from Mystery Seeds, buy stuff from store, Mine Cart to 999 Rupees again, buy two Gasha seeds from store, then win four Baseball games at a time until you get the Light Ring Lvl 2, give Magic Oar to Rafton, then Mine Cart enough money to get Wealth Ring (ideally you'd get to 9800 Rupees earned instead, but I'm not skilled enough for that it seems), go to present, Baseball Game (blunder through as fast as possible), back to past, give meat, go into present, give vase and dodge bombs, back to past, get Letter, do some dancing, then go into Dungeon 6.

2) Take right path, solve Ember Seed puzzle, Save + Quit, bomb two rock walls and wall beyond those, take Wallmaster express back to entrance, go into present, and re-enter.

3) Take north path, and in cliff rooms with wizzrobes, go between screens over and over until you get one on the other side, then hookshot it to get small key.

4) Against Vire, charge spin attacks in corner, and if Vire flies away, try to hurt him with bombs.

5) Use Teleporter back to entrance, swim on east path, jump on spikes to other side, get Boss Key and Mermaid Suit, Save + Quit.  Get out of dungeon, get Toss Ring, return to past, and re-enter.

6) Go back to Ember Seed puzzle, get underwater key, Save + Quit, go through brick wall room, and proceed to boss.

7) Be completely aggressive with boss, even pushing pots into water to get at it.

Rolling Sea:

1) Warp back to Ember Tree, get Gasha prize, replant Gasha, get Gold Luck Ring, beat up Veran, then get Mystery Seed Upgrade, Broken Sword, and Sacred Noble Sword with the help of the Tune of Ages.

2) Go to Ruun Plains by warping to Ambi's and using the Tune of Ages to get there quickly, save in the cave, reset if you don't get a ring (chances of getting a ring are very good in my experience though), replant before warping to Vasu's to save a little time (later on, as you get more and more rings, you'll want to only replant AFTER making sure you got a rare ring, as I think you actually LOSE time from constantly replanting the seed during resets), do the same with Talus Peaks patch, put Double Edge (Dbl. Edge) ring in your Ring inventory if you get it, warp to Goron Mystery Seed tree, then get Gasha Seed and Heart Piece on mountain. Warp to Scent Seed tree and get underwater Heart Piece.

3) Plant Gasha in past Zora island, warp to Scent Seed Tree, get underwater Heart Piece, use Tune of Ages to plant Gasha Seed south of Dungeon/Victory Road entrance, get Iron Shield from Tokay, then warp back to Zora Island.  Talk to octorok fairy before trying to proceed with library stuff.

4) Enter Dungeon 7.  Get key and press red switch, Save + Quit, get key and press 1st blue switch, get key, and for miniboss, shoot Scent Seed straight up before slashing with sword.  Get Longshot and Save + Quit.

5) Press red switch again, Save + Quit, get key, press 1st blue switch then 2nd switch, then Save + Quit.

6) Get two keys, Save + Quit, get a third key, get Boss Key, Save + Quit, take teleporter and fight the boss.

Falling Star:

1) Get the Red Holy Ring and Pegasus Ring before getting Red Gem, warp to Tokay Island, get L-2 Power Ring, then get rings from four patches (be sure the Heart Piece doesn't come from the Tokay or Zora patches, as those are the trees that produce the REALLY rare rings!).  Replace L-1 Power Ring with L-2 Power Ring and enter Dungeon 8 once you've taken care of all that.

2) Get 1st slate, Save + Quit, get the rest of the slates, Save + Quit, enter passageway. 

Veran:

1) Fetch the Blue Ring near Dungeon 8, the other ring near Zora's Island, and the Green Luck Ring from Mayor's House.  Grind the Heart Piece from Maple in the past at Symmetry Village if you haven't gotten it already (do be careful about your positioning though.  What I do is I stand slightly above the house on the upper right corner, and if Maple comes from the other side of the screen, I go down and left, put Link's back to the house, and let her run into me.  The idea is so that she doesn't land too far from you, therefore making it impossible to get the Heart Piece), then raid Veran's place.

2) Middle, left, up, north, south, north, get into stair room, go southeast two stairs.  Whack Veran upside the head (if you have the Dbl. Edge ring, as you probably should by now, the fight is a complete joke).


Now, to explain a few things...

1) After doing some testing, there seem to be three kinds of Gasha Trees.  Type 1, which is most Gasha's, seem to only give you complete junk, the only thing notable being the Curse Ring, which I plan on getting from a tree in Oracle of Seasons if I don't succeed in getting one in Oracle of Ages.  Type 2, which is the Ruun and Talus patches, gives you moderately better stuff, such as the Roc's Ring, the Dbl. Edge Ring, the Toss Ring, and other such rings.  And then there's Type 3, the Zora Island patch and the patch just a screen south of Dungeon 3/Victory Road, which gives you the REALLY amazing stuff, such as the Lvl-2 Heart Ring, the Green Ring, the Lvl-2 Rang Ring, the 1st-Gen Ring, and other real goodies. 

2) The rings I can't get anywhere else but from Maple and Gasha's are...

Green Ring SP
Cursed Ring normal
Expert's Ring
Maple's Ring normal
L-2 Heart Ring SP
Charge Ring SP
Blue Luck Ring normal
Roc's Ring  normal
Red Joy Ring normal
L-2 Rang Ring SP
First Gen Ring SP
Energy Ring SP
Dbl. Edge Ring
Gasha Ring SP
Peace Ring SP
Zora Ring
Fist Ring SP
Protection Ring

I mark the ultra rare rings as SP to make things simple.  In Oracle of Seasons, you get one Type 3 Gasha patch before Dungeon 4, and discover another one right before Dungeon 6, but...I'm not sure if it's just an error in my testing, or if it has something to do with it being a Linked game, or what, but....if there are any for sure Type 2 Gasha's, I couldn't seem to find them, even from patches that you had to dig with a shovel in order to find.  But anyways, there are nine SP rings, and I'm planning on using one of the Type 3 patches in Oracle of Seasons to give me the Heart Piece, so that leaves me just enough Type 3 drops to get all the rare rings.

Now, of course the other eight rings that aren't the Cursed Ring (gotten from even Type 1 Gasha's) are somewhat more complicated.  I only get six Type 2 drops in Oracle of Ages, however, you run into Maple so often between the two games, that your chances of getting at least two Type 2 rings from her alone are fairly high, so that's why I didn't account for those extra two rings in the route planning.  Still...is that a potential hole in this plan do you think?

3) The Sacred Noble Sword actually isn't that big of an upgrade from the Wooden Sword (sword beams and pot breaking notwithstanding) if this damage table is to be believed...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/472313-the-legend-of-zelda-oracle-of-ages/54307646

...so that, combined with how much longer it takes to get it without the Tune of Ages, is why I postponed getting it until then.  Just to let you know...

4) And yes, the Lvl-3 Ring actually does NOT exceed the Red Ring in damage once you've gotten the Sacred Noble Sword, so that's an interesting thing to note.  On the other hand, the Dbl. Edge ring, is absolutely RIDICULOUS in it's damage output.  I am not kidding when I say it literally only takes TWO HITS to take down Veran's final form o.0!!  This thing seriously just MURDERS everything it touches!



So, I actually have already recorded all of Oracle of Ages with this route (although I lost a few segments), so, if you like, I can put up some reference videos.  Oh yeah, and I'll put up my Oracle of Seasons (Linked) route sometime later on.  So what do you think?
Thread title:  
Edit history:
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-19 08:28:52 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-19 08:28:26 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-19 08:26:37 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-19 08:24:08 pm
The Legend of Zelda Oracle of Seasons:

Fertile Soil:

1) Get Gnarled Root Key, say secret to Vasu and equip Power Ring Lvl-2, and get Heart Secret.  In Dungeon 1, get Ember Seeds, take teleporter back to get Boss Key, Save + Quit, and go through the rest of the dungeon.

Gift of Time:

1) Get two Gasha Seeds at Mayor's house, plant a Gasha Seed outside Mayor's house, Heart Piece, sequence break Subrosia slightly by tripping switch with bomb.

2) Get Fairy Secret and enter dungeon.  Get west room key, Save + Quit, get into Rupee Room, then go through the rest of the dungeon as normal (get the Gasha Seed of course).

Bright Sun:
1: Get Cucco Dex and Cucco Egg, and you'll probably get Maple's Creepy Doll sometime before Dungeon 3.

2) Turn it to Winter when at Spool Swamp.

(Pegasus 13)

3) Get Heart Piece and Ribbon after digging up sufficient chunks, and once you talk to Rosa, Save + Quit, and proceed to get Summer. Save + Quit, and head back to Spool Swamp.

(Pegasus 6)

4) Enter dungeon 3.

(Pegasus 5)

5) Take north path, get key, fall in hole, take stairs, get boss key, Save + Quit, take teleporter to boss.

(Pegasus 2)

Soothing Rain:

1) Change to Summer, eat golden beast with Dimitri, Save + Quit, get Mamamu Secret, enter entrance to Tarm Ruins, and then get regenerated Pegasus Seeds. 

2) Give Creepy Doll to lady and then plant Gasha Seed in Goron Mountain one screen up from where you enter with Dimitri.  In Sunken Village, get Zora Flippers and Gale Seeds, then stomp the Great Moblin for his Heart Piece, and later the password (but not right now).  Once you're done with him, get Vire to show up in waterfall cave, get Symmetry Secret from girl in house near that cave, and get the Heart Piece before warping back to Sunken City. 

3) Get Roc's feather back from troublemakers, Save + Quit, get a Gasha Seed from house, break a boulder and get Member's Card and Big Bomb Bag before heading down tunnel, and get another Gasha Seed on your way to the Spirit of Spring, then get Lava Soup before heading all the way back to the teleporter from where you entered Subrosia.

4) Get ring from cavern below the one leading to Moosh's banana, then get the key to with Moosh, Save + Quit,  then proceed to dungeon 4.

5) North path, then west path to key.  Get the second key on the left side of the dungeon, then Save + Quit.  Go clear out the right side of the dungeon, taking the mine kart left before taking it right.

6) Kill miniboss, get slingshot, light torches on minekart, Save + Quit.  Take teleporter, get key to the right of spike room.  Get boss key, Save + Quit.

7) When you fight Gohma, spin attack it on the way down, stay on it's left and go left when it lunges, and when it's time to use Slingshot, get right up in it's face, and spam shots over and over.

Nurturing Warmth:

1) Heart Piece below dungeon, L-2 Ring Box, 300 Rupee reward from old man, Goron Vase, Elder Password, Fish, get Tokay Secret and get ring from Goron Mountain while your at it.  Warp to Sunket City again to get Pyramid Jewel, back to Horon, buy one Gasha Seed and Seed Satchel upgrade, get X-Shaped Jewel near Hero's Cave, get King Z. secret and three Gasha Seeds from Hero's Cave.  Cash in all your passwords for prizes, then Mega Phone and head into Subrosia. Get huge bomb, proceed to dungeon.

2) Right path, right mine kart, north then east mine kart path, left path, get Magnet Gloves, Save + Quit. 

3) Left Path, north path, north path, get key, Save + Quit.  Take left mine kart, west mine path then north mine path, activate magnet ball, Save + Quit.

4) Right mine kart, east mine path, south mine kart, right, left, get boss key, Save + Quit.  Take teleporter and march straight to boss.

Blowing Wind: (NOTE: If you get Gasha Heart Piece from patch in Goron's Mountain, replant Gasha Seed and go wake up Talon with the Megaphone for the ring behind him)

1) Get Heart Piece, enter Subrosia, get Red Ore and Blue Ore, get Hard Ore, get Plen Password, Save + Quit, get Square Jewel and Round Jewel, warp to Spool Swamp, get Heart Piece, get Octo Ring from cave if you haven't got it through the course of the two games, and finally, warp to Spool Swamp and enter into the Lost Woods.

2) Kill golden beast here and get Master Sword obviously.  Right before entering dungeon, clear out the armos statues with Biggoron's Sword, jump down and change weather to Summer, jump back up, then enter.

3) North, north, get key, Save + Quit, west once through locked door and magnet puzzle, right to Magic Boomerang, fall through pit, fall through pit again, get boss keys, fall through pit, get boss key, jump back up, beat up Vire.

4) Beat up turtles with Gale seeds,

Seed of Life:

1) Warp to Horon, get Heart Piece, talk to Captain, get Heart Piece and Troy Secret near desert, input two 3's, one 2, two 1's, and three 4's, and talk to pirate ghost.

2) Warp to Woods of Winter, kill golden beast, enter Subrosia, get bell polished and Iron Shield forged, get Heart Piece before dungeon, and enter.

3) Get key next to dark room, Save + Quit, right, stairs, go left of armos room, key, then south of armos room, and stairs.  In falling bridge, left room, key, then right room, trampoline, get key, go further south of armos room, right, and beat up the other ghost.

4) In stairs room, east, east, east, east, west, east.  Get Boss Key, Save + Quit, teleporter, east, east, east, east, south, and beat up boss.

Changing Seasons:

1) Get Library Password, kill golden beast and complete Hero's Cave for Lvl-3 Power Ring, get Red Ring, warp to North Horon and trade in the rest of your passwords, sequence break by jumping over the extremely large group of holes like Tompa did, and proceed to dungeon.

2) Right, up, right, stairs, right, left, stairs, beat miniboss, stairs, right, use flute on bunny room, get boss key, left, upper right, pick up ice, upper left, back, ice, upper left, down, unlock door but don't enter, stairs, stairs, back, lower right stairs

Onox, Twinrova, and Ganon: 

1) ...Beat them up.


By the way, once you're able to carry three rings, the default rings are going to be {damage boosting ring, Dbl. Edge Ring, Gold Joy Ring}.  So what do you guys think?
Some good stuff here,  this is a very hard game(s) to 100%.
<(^_^)>
Go contact paladrima and theonly0 about routing. There's some maple manipulation possible to get extra ruppees and the potion that they use in OoA any% (since you need ruppees and potion to beat OoA), so you'll have to figure out where it's best to manipulate maple to give you ideal drops.

Plus, i don't know if 100% is set in store. And doing a linked-game 100% is iffy, because if you're doing linked, which game is faster to do first? and the game you do second, you might as well start it with an OP code if you want the fastest possible time.
Well, I'm guessing that for linked-games, Speed Demos Archive would allow Seasons>Ages and Ages>Seasons to simply be separate categories.  As for an OP code...I dunno, I feel like that really takes the fun out of 100%ing the game, although I guess you could use such a code, and then still collect all of the rings?  In any case, yeah, I will definitely contact those guys!  Thanks a bunch!
So, do you guys wish for me to upload some videos of some various things about this route?
<(^_^)>
There's also a frame-perfect screenwrapping glitch in OoA that's definitely doable in an RTA run, which allows you to get to the peaks before going to symmetry city, aka get pegasus seeds way earlier and skip a minor quest or something like that.
Edit history:
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-23 06:19:13 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-23 06:18:24 pm
FionordeQuester: 2012-11-23 06:17:48 pm
Yeah...but, I prefer glitchless runs myself, as silly as it may seem.  I'm the sort of dude that just cringes at say, watching every single boss in Final Fantasy VI getting O.H.K.Oed by some stupid programming glitch, and finds just about every single Ocarina of Time speed run borderline unwatchable.  Not that I'm calling anyone stupid for taking advantage of glitches like those, but, I personally am not very interested in such things.

Still, as I said, I'm probably not making a run to submit to Speeddemosarchive.com, although I DO wish to upload a full playthrough using whatever strats that me, TheonlyO, Tompa, or Paledrima manage to come up between the four of us, so, I'm sure one of them could suggest some things to incorporate that skip, you know?

Sorry if it seems like I'm being a bit of a downer, it's just that my favorite kind of runs are runs where someone doesn't need to spend an insane amount of time practicing just to pull off some of the major strategies (Ocarina of Time, Super Mario RPG, and 100% Mega Man X), and where one can implement the strategies without using something from the internet (like a database of uber passwords for these two games, or maphacking programs for Diablo II runs).
<(^_^)>
Well just letting you know, if you dont' use the fastest strats (aka glitches) possible, then I don't think people would accept a run on SDA. Plus, the glitches I mentioned above really aren't THAT big of a deal (lol OoT glitches rofl), and it'd definitely be worth learning from what I've seen. They really aren't big glitches anyways.
Isn't there a seperate section for glitchless runs?
Anyways, I have now uploaded the first three videos of what this route would look like...minus the slow speed at which I go through the text, and the mistakes of course!

Part 1: (The Boring Intro Stuff)
Part 2: (1st Dungeon to Beginning of 2nd Dungeon)
Part 3:     (2nd Dungeon to Shipwreck)
Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart
there's no glitchless category at SDA because it is too arbitrary.
<(^_^)>
yeah glitchless is very iffy in these zelda games. There are some obvious ones like the screenwrapping warps, but then there are the cases of, are you allowed to jump across three-space gaps with pegasus seeds with roc's feather? That's not a glitch, even though it's unintended... Are you allowed to take shortcuts with tricky jumps? things like that.

If you're interested in "glitchless", that's probably best for the casual speedrunning thread, but defining it itself is not gonna be clear.
See, my general rule on that has usually been, "don't do anything that involves going through walls, or clipping through things, or sequence breaking" or things like that.  Like, the Cucco jump in Ocarina of time...would be iffy, but the longjump in the Water Temple (where you can skip one or two keys worth of dungeon crawling by hopping up to the highest level) would be legitimate...and of course you would be allowed to take shortcuts with tricky jumps, that's just a case of clever playing rather than outright abuse.

EDIT: Wait a minute, I think I've found a good glitchless definition!:  "No taking advantage of programming flaws." 

How about that?
<(^_^)>
that's not a clear definition really...

backwalking in OoT, for example, isn't an outright "glitch" but we don't know if it's actually a programming flaw or not. it's very gray.

in general, it's very hard to define some glitchless category. you're better off going to the sda discussion forum or casual forum really, if you don't plan on doing routing with the fastest possible strats known...
Well, what I mean by "programming flaw" is basically FORCING the game to something it normally wouldn't let you do.  Because if the game is allowing you to backwalk, and it happens to be faster than regular running, than that's not a programming flaw.  BUT, if you're trying to go through walls, the game isn't designed to let you do that, so by going through walls, you're FORCING the game to do something it wouldn't let you do otherwise, you know?  That's what I define as a glitch.
Exactly -- a good example is Super Metroid. Wall jumping is an ability programmed into the game, so killing Kraid before high jump or getting wave beamwith no grapple is still considered fine (and thus getting to Crocmire and grapple with no power bombs if you want to, etc). But mockball isn't what the game is supposed to do, so you still have to fight Spore Spawn for supers and get speed booster before ice beam.
<(^_^)>
Or is mockball not supposed to be done? as far as I know, some of it is intended since speedball exists after all, and if mockball wasn't intended, then speedball shouldn't have been programmed. What about infinite bomb jump in super metroid too? Or arm pumping?

But basically, my point is, "glitchless" is not as clear-cut as you think. There are always going to be some exceptions that will produce some debate, and there is a reason why SDA doesn't host "glitchless" categories.
Howard Strern
where do i find the time chart thing to track pb's?