The Guardian Legend 100% SS (NES)

2010-05-19 07:14:22 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Hmm, I thought of something today.
- Take damage during boss fights (except the blue hairball eye, reward is a shield battery) because you often have to suicide right after.
- Controlling my score is pretty much awesome. I can screw around in the first 3 corridors because they're really easy, this way I can hit the 100,000 point level up while fighting the blue eyeball (getting hit by a Gradius bullet gives you 200 points, so enter the fight with 99,600 or something and you can attack with the saber for a bit), in later levels I can go full bore to try and get my score caught up to Votava's.
- While I want to skip Blue Landers, getting the one in the top right green area refills power chips, allowing me to buy another, so it's like getting two for the price of one. Obviously skipping these will still save time, but I'm not that desperate just yet.

Right now I'm hungry but I might go set up an emulator later tonight.

ShinerCCC

2010-05-25 09:43:56 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

My problem with the Corridor 3 trick is that the gray "Gradius bullets" are actually not necessarily worth 200 points. The ones with gravity fired by the flower turrets and turnips on the walking map are worth 200; straight shots fired by the green worm, blue Vic Viper, hairball bosses, etc. are only worth 10. I think Compile was aware of such a strategy, but it's still not impossible. I've learned to control my score well enough that if I go into Corridor 3 with about 60-70k points there's a chance I can finish the level before the boss with 99,9x0 points. The key is to get hit by the blue ships' bullets to set your 10s digit to an odd number, then the asteroids in the last stretch of the level give you increments of 60; try to end on 70 or 90, but be careful. If you're low on score here (91k) you'll have to let the red burst flowers explode and take out the individual segments for 300 points each, instead of 500 for the whole cluster. Since you'll be firing wildly, you can easily hit one more asteroid and ruin a good 10s digit. Then, in the last stretch, watch your 100s digit; flower turrets are worth 300, their bullets 200, and the spores from the top of the screen 200. You can't really avoid them though, so shoot them first, kill other things as needed, and try to be on an odd number so you can get into 900s instead of 800s. The main benefit is not refilling your health, because 90% of the time you'll take damage from the more dangerous blue vines instead of the Gradius bullets. The real benefit is using the invincibility time of going from 0 to 11 shield to do 4 damage every 8 frames with the double saber, according to the damage chart. I'm learning how to do the actual score control pretty well, but I still don't have an emulator to practice on for the actual boss motion. This is dumb, and will hopefully be rectified soon.

I tried recording some runs this long weekend and I thought I was going to do awesome, but it turns out my strategy to kill the Corridor 9 boss (drag the double saber through the left side) is not at all consistent. I had two runs get that far and then fail due to him. The second run was amazing too; time was 42 minutes going into Corridor 9. Had what was probably my best time on the opening boss, and pulled off the Corridor 3 trick perfectly. I think I can shave 6 minutes off this run, much like I did to Faxanadu, but I guess I'm not quite ready yet. I can do with even fewer Blue Landers actually, but I think you're more likely to get a shield battery powerup if you have high max shields. I can upload this run if anyone wants to see it, but I'd rather just have an awesome run for SDA despite all the heartbreak. Anyway, the double saber strategy works better on Corridor 10 because the talon missiles curve in a funny way and tend to hit the double saber instead of the back of the ship, whereas Corridor 9's boss shoots skulls that travel in a straight line, and just hit you from behind. I will either find a new strategy (only level 1 Fusion Cannon, can't copy Votava, maybe I'll try sword) or find the ideal sweet spot or motion for double saber.

My problem with the Corridor 3 trick is that the gray "Gradius bullets" are actually not necessarily worth 200 points. The ones with gravity fired by the flower turrets and turnips on the walking map are worth 200; straight shots fired by the green worm, blue Vic Viper, hairball bosses, etc. are only worth 10. I think Compile was aware of such a strategy, but it's still not impossible. I've learned to control my score well enough that if I go into Corridor 3 with about 60-70k points there's a chance I can finish the level before the boss with 99,9x0 points. The key is to get hit by the blue ships' bullets to set your 10s digit to an odd number, then the asteroids in the last stretch of the level give you increments of 60; try to end on 70 or 90, but be careful. If you're low on score here (91k) you'll have to let the red burst flowers explode and take out the individual segments for 300 points each, instead of 500 for the whole cluster. Since you'll be firing wildly, you can easily hit one more asteroid and ruin a good 10s digit. Then, in the last stretch, watch your 100s digit; flower turrets are worth 300, their bullets 200, and the spores from the top of the screen 200. You can't really avoid them though, so shoot them first, kill other things as needed, and try to be on an odd number so you can get into 900s instead of 800s. The main benefit is not refilling your health, because 90% of the time you'll take damage from the more dangerous blue vines instead of the Gradius bullets. The real benefit is using the invincibility time of going from 0 to 11 shield to do 4 damage every 8 frames with the double saber, according to the damage chart. I'm learning how to do the actual score control pretty well, but I still don't have an emulator to practice on for the actual boss motion. This is dumb, and will hopefully be rectified soon.

I tried recording some runs this long weekend and I thought I was going to do awesome, but it turns out my strategy to kill the Corridor 9 boss (drag the double saber through the left side) is not at all consistent. I had two runs get that far and then fail due to him. The second run was amazing too; time was 42 minutes going into Corridor 9. Had what was probably my best time on the opening boss, and pulled off the Corridor 3 trick perfectly. I think I can shave 6 minutes off this run, much like I did to Faxanadu, but I guess I'm not quite ready yet. I can do with even fewer Blue Landers actually, but I think you're more likely to get a shield battery powerup if you have high max shields. I can upload this run if anyone wants to see it, but I'd rather just have an awesome run for SDA despite all the heartbreak. Anyway, the double saber strategy works better on Corridor 10 because the talon missiles curve in a funny way and tend to hit the double saber instead of the back of the ship, whereas Corridor 9's boss shoots skulls that travel in a straight line, and just hit you from behind. I will either find a new strategy (only level 1 Fusion Cannon, can't copy Votava, maybe I'll try sword) or find the ideal sweet spot or motion for double saber.

chessjerk

2010-06-28 09:25:03 pm

Anyone still working on this? I've been thinking about running it myself (used to play this a lot back in the day).

ShinerCCC

2010-07-01 01:59:12 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Just the other day I discovered an amazing strat for the Corridor 9 boss.

The V saber is too dangerous. So I studied what I was taking damage from. The lasers in front of the boss do only a speck of damage, the aimed skull shots do huge damage. Since you can only be damaged by one thing at a time, I figured the safest place was on top of those lasers. Using the level 1 Fusion Cannon (slow, red fireball) takes out this boss very quickly and is fairly reliable, I usually finish with 7 shield left. The fireball also destroys the lasers which frequently generates powerups. Put the nose of the ship just on top of the mouth stitches and you should be good. Still have to try it on console, but I can pull it off on emulator at full speed no problem.

Still can't beat Corridor 10 on keyboard at 75% speed though ;_;

I was about to go play the game on emulator some more, I'll probably just edit this post

ShinerCCC

2010-07-05 07:38:26 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Hmm, still have some problems. I recorded some runs yesterday and had two promising runs end late game: one on the Corridor 10 boss, the other for missing a health powerup in Corridor 9 or something. It was during those blue exploding enemies, I was just dodging the flak instead of spamming Enemy Eraser. The boss strat for Corridor 9 works pretty well though. The first run I overshot my point target for the Corridor 3 boss, the second run I went in with 99970 points and got in some pretty good damage with the double saber but I was a bit shaky so I had to finish him off with several shots of Fusion Cannon.

But yeah, I can't find a reliable way to kill the Corridor 10 boss at all. And lately Charles had gotten up in my head so Corridor 10 itself got hard all of a sudden. I've resorted to grabbing the extra Defense powerup (orange blob after Corridor 6) and some other Blue Landers (red blob before Corridor 5, the one sitting by the path to Corridor 4 even if I already have full chips) to try to make these parts more consistent. It's really weird, usually the Corridor 10 boss is just too resilient but on one test run I survived with about 8 shields left. On another I stuck it out with 0 shield for another 5 seconds and somehow didn't get hit, then finished him off. Votava makes him look easy as well but all he does is go up and down while attacking with the double saber.

What I did to make Faxanadu so consistent and awesome was practice bosses like King Grieve, just because it was fun to do so. I learned what his (unchanging) pattern was. The bosses in this game are quite different though, because this game is a shmup they shoot toward you and your own movements change what happens. Going from my savestate, though, powerups always appear at the same time and always contain the same items. Basically, the RNG is somewhat harder to manipulate, especially if you're getting hit around the same times. I think powerup drops are partially determined by what your shield and chip levels are at. My savestate that I have is reliable because a full shield battery drops right before I'm about to die.

CJ, I'd appreciate your help again if you can find a way to make the Corridor 10 boss easier to beat because I'm tired of having good runs shot down by this megafool. I'll just keep practicing Corridor 10 itself on keyboard or something...

Hmm, still have some problems. I recorded some runs yesterday and had two promising runs end late game: one on the Corridor 10 boss, the other for missing a health powerup in Corridor 9 or something. It was during those blue exploding enemies, I was just dodging the flak instead of spamming Enemy Eraser. The boss strat for Corridor 9 works pretty well though. The first run I overshot my point target for the Corridor 3 boss, the second run I went in with 99970 points and got in some pretty good damage with the double saber but I was a bit shaky so I had to finish him off with several shots of Fusion Cannon.

But yeah, I can't find a reliable way to kill the Corridor 10 boss at all. And lately Charles had gotten up in my head so Corridor 10 itself got hard all of a sudden. I've resorted to grabbing the extra Defense powerup (orange blob after Corridor 6) and some other Blue Landers (red blob before Corridor 5, the one sitting by the path to Corridor 4 even if I already have full chips) to try to make these parts more consistent. It's really weird, usually the Corridor 10 boss is just too resilient but on one test run I survived with about 8 shields left. On another I stuck it out with 0 shield for another 5 seconds and somehow didn't get hit, then finished him off. Votava makes him look easy as well but all he does is go up and down while attacking with the double saber.

What I did to make Faxanadu so consistent and awesome was practice bosses like King Grieve, just because it was fun to do so. I learned what his (unchanging) pattern was. The bosses in this game are quite different though, because this game is a shmup they shoot toward you and your own movements change what happens. Going from my savestate, though, powerups always appear at the same time and always contain the same items. Basically, the RNG is somewhat harder to manipulate, especially if you're getting hit around the same times. I think powerup drops are partially determined by what your shield and chip levels are at. My savestate that I have is reliable because a full shield battery drops right before I'm about to die.

CJ, I'd appreciate your help again if you can find a way to make the Corridor 10 boss easier to beat because I'm tired of having good runs shot down by this megafool. I'll just keep practicing Corridor 10 itself on keyboard or something...

ZakkyTheHybrid

2013-11-11 02:47:00 pm

Goatragon!

Been working on routing this and in the process of testing routes and practicing corridors. But while I'm in the early stages I just want to make sure that the definition of 100% is still valid in case I need to make any major route adjustments for anything I haven't yet accounted for.

From the posts earlier in the topic, I understand that this was the definition established a few years ago:

1. Complete all corridors
2. Collect all red and blue landers
3. Collect all special weapons and max all weapons to level 3 (with the exception of the Enemy Erasers)
4. Max attack and defense power (attack to level 4 and defense to level 7)

The only things I haven't accounted for yet are the Consecutive Fire power-ups. From what I gather, after the first CF collected there's no difference from there until you grab a fifth. But unlike with the weapons or attack and defense, the game does not track this in the menu. So my question is, would picking up 5 CF power-ups be required in addition to those aforementioned four requirements or are those requirements still sufficient as they are?

Been working on routing this and in the process of testing routes and practicing corridors.  But while I'm in the early stages I just want to make sure that the definition of 100% is still valid in case I need to make any major route adjustments for anything I haven't yet accounted for.

From the posts earlier in the topic, I understand that this was the definition established a few years ago:

1. Complete all corridors
2. Collect all red and blue landers
3. Collect all special weapons and max all weapons to level 3 (with the exception of the Enemy Erasers)
4. Max attack and defense power (attack to level 4 and defense to level 7)

The only things I haven't accounted for yet are the Consecutive Fire power-ups.  From what I gather, after the first CF collected there's no difference from there until you grab a fifth.  But unlike with the weapons or attack and defense, the game does not track this in the menu.  So my question is, would picking up 5 CF power-ups be required in addition to those aforementioned four requirements or are those requirements still sufficient as they are?

ZakkyTheHybrid

2013-12-09 10:47:41 am

Goatragon!

Okay, been working on this for a little over a month. So far my PB for 100% is 1:25:09. But that is before I revised my route and some strategies over the weekend. Unfortunately Twitch ate the broadcast during which I got that PB before I got around to highlighting it, so I only have a highlight of my prior PB of 1:26:23 - http://www.twitch.tv/zakkydraggy/c/3273284. I'm currently working on trying to get a full run executing all my new strategies.

Here are a few things I'm doing differently from the route I use in the 1:26:23 I've linked above:

- Corridor 1 Entry: Using the saber laser with then gun helps to open the corridor faster.

- Area 3: Being more aggressive on the "flower" mini-boss.

- Area 4: There's another "flower" mini-boss here.

- Corridor 4: Positioning atop Teramute's head and using the Cutter Saber. This saves me a weapon switch to the Saber Laser before the boss fight and also allows me to defeat Teramute in 3 cycles instead of 4. It also makes managing my health a lot easier since I can keep my health high for almost all of the corridor.

- Corridor 15: Using the Cutter Saber on Clawbot and attacking him directly with it right from the start instead of using the Saber Laser on the claws saves me the trouble of flying around his claws to attack him once the claws separate.

- Corridor 5 Entry: Using the cutter saber and firing on the corridor sign will open the corridor a lot faster.

- Corridor 6 Entry: Using the Cutter Saber to open the corridor.

- Corridor 6: Using the Cutter Saber and parking right on top of Glider when he's vulnerable. This results in a 2-cycle kill instead of a 3-cycle if I use the Saber Laser and hover underneath him when he's vulnerable and saves a weapon switch. It's also a lot riskier, but not as risky as the next strat...

- Corridor 16: Red Optomon, as anyone who has regularly been watching my runs knows, is a frequent run-ender if I make it past Blue Optomon. The previous strategy involved using the fireball and firing with the gun. The new strategy involves getting up close and personal with the Cutter Saber. There's very little room for mistakes if any, here, but it's ~30 seconds faster than using the fireball, so it must be done.

- Area 7: The miniboss that drops a Grenade power-up is one of those things that appears, is vulnerable for a few seconds, and then vanishes and leaves a whole bunch of spider-looking enemies in its place. Usually it took me 4-cycles to kill it, but I found I could 3-cycle it by standing in its hitbox during the third cycle while I attack it. During my Saturday tests, I managed to 3-cycle it using my old strat, but I'll probably use this strat to ensure I kill it in 3-cycles.

- Area 8: And there's one more "flower" miniboss here. Also, taking a different route to get the Hyper Laser saves me about a second just because it helps me grab it easier.

- Corridor 18: I counted out how many charges of the Saber Laser it takes before Grimgrin dies after he hits his final phase. It's not going to be perfect, but hopefully it'll help my health management a bit in preparation for the following death warp.

- Corridor 19: Using the Cutter Saber on Bombarder. It isn't that much faster than using the Saber Laser, but the fact that it saves a cycle still saves a fair number of seconds.

- Area 9: There's another one of those minibosses like that one in Area 7 that drops the Grenade power-up. Standing in its hitbox on cycles 2 and 3 will allow a 3-cycle kill instead of the normal 4-cycle from not standing in the hitbox at all.

- Corridor 9: Manipulating a level-up during the boss fight and using the Cutter Saber. The level-up will eliminate the need for power-up "luck" and the need to grab any power-ups. The Cutter Saber is also faster than using the fireball here, even with the level-up.

- Corridor 21: I compared three new strategies to my old one. The best way I found to do this was to use the Cutter Saber on Fleepa, ZibZub, and Clawbot, switch to the Fireball for Optomon, and then back to the Cutter Saber for Grimgrin and Bombarder. Cutter Saber was slightly faster on Fleepa, faster on ZibZub, and slightly faster on Clawbot than using the Saber Laser. Level 3 Fireball proved to be faster on Red Optomon than the Cutter Saber, which was a bit surprising. And, of course, the Cutter Saber is the best on Grim Grin and Optomon. With this strategy it appears I could save 16 sec. off my current best on that segment.

All told, with the revised strategies it adds up to about 1m 17s that I can save if all goes well and there's still plenty of time I can save due to better health management, movement, and luck on enemy and miniboss spawns.

Most of the credit here for these revised strats goes to theseawolf1, though. The Corridor 1, 5, and 6 entries, the "flower" mini-boss fight strat, and the Clawbot strat he used in his run and my Red Optomon strat is the strat he used on the Red Optomon in the final corridor in his run. He also helped me analyze my new Cutter Saber boss strats when I was streaming my testing the other day. Thanks seawolf!

Now it's on me to make good use of this all!

Okay, been working on this for a little over a month.  So far my PB for 100% is 1:25:09.  But that is before I revised my route and some strategies over the weekend.  Unfortunately Twitch ate the broadcast during which I got that PB before I got around to highlighting it, so I only have a highlight of my prior PB of 1:26:23 - http://www.twitch.tv/zakkydraggy/c/3273284.  I'm currently working on trying to get a full run executing all my new strategies.

Here are a few things I'm doing differently from the route I use in the 1:26:23 I've linked above:

- Corridor 1 Entry: Using the saber laser with then gun helps to open the corridor faster.

- Area 3: Being more aggressive on the "flower" mini-boss.

- Area 4: There's another "flower" mini-boss here.

- Corridor 4: Positioning atop Teramute's head and using the Cutter Saber.  This saves me a weapon switch to the Saber Laser before the boss fight and also allows me to defeat Teramute in 3 cycles instead of 4.  It also makes managing my health a lot easier since I can keep my health high for almost all of the corridor.

- Corridor 15: Using the Cutter Saber on Clawbot and attacking him directly with it right from the start instead of using the Saber Laser on the claws saves me the trouble of flying around his claws to attack him once the claws separate.

- Corridor 5 Entry: Using the cutter saber and firing on the corridor sign will open the corridor a lot faster.

- Corridor 6 Entry: Using the Cutter Saber to open the corridor.

- Corridor 6: Using the Cutter Saber and parking right on top of Glider when he's vulnerable.  This results in a 2-cycle kill instead of a 3-cycle if I use the Saber Laser and hover underneath him when he's vulnerable and saves a weapon switch.  It's also a lot riskier, but not as risky as the next strat...

- Corridor 16: Red Optomon, as anyone who has regularly been watching my runs knows, is a frequent run-ender if I make it past Blue Optomon.  The previous strategy involved using the fireball and firing with the gun.  The new strategy involves getting up close and personal with the Cutter Saber.  There's very little room for mistakes if any, here, but it's ~30 seconds faster than using the fireball, so it must be done.

- Area 7: The miniboss that drops a Grenade power-up is one of those things that appears, is vulnerable for a few seconds, and then vanishes and leaves a whole bunch of spider-looking enemies in its place.  Usually it took me 4-cycles to kill it, but I found I could 3-cycle it by standing in its hitbox during the third cycle while I attack it.  During my Saturday tests, I managed to 3-cycle it using my old strat, but I'll probably use this strat to ensure I kill it in 3-cycles.

- Area 8: And there's one more "flower" miniboss here.  Also, taking a different route to get the Hyper Laser saves me about a second just because it helps me grab it easier.

- Corridor 18: I counted out how many charges of the Saber Laser it takes before Grimgrin dies after he hits his final phase.  It's not going to be perfect, but hopefully it'll help my health management a bit in preparation for the following death warp.

- Corridor 19: Using the Cutter Saber on Bombarder.  It isn't that much faster than using the Saber Laser, but the fact that it saves a cycle still saves a fair number of seconds.

- Area 9: There's another one of those minibosses like that one in Area 7 that drops the Grenade power-up.  Standing in its hitbox on cycles 2 and 3 will allow a 3-cycle kill instead of the normal 4-cycle from not standing in the hitbox at all.

- Corridor 9: Manipulating a level-up during the boss fight and using the Cutter Saber.  The level-up will eliminate the need for power-up "luck" and the need to grab any power-ups.  The Cutter Saber is also faster than using the fireball here, even with the level-up.

- Corridor 21: I compared three new strategies to my old one.  The best way I found to do this was to use the Cutter Saber on Fleepa, ZibZub, and Clawbot, switch to the Fireball for Optomon, and then back to the Cutter Saber for Grimgrin and Bombarder.  Cutter Saber was slightly faster on Fleepa, faster on ZibZub, and slightly faster on Clawbot than using the Saber Laser.  Level 3 Fireball proved to be faster on Red Optomon than the Cutter Saber, which was a bit surprising.  And, of course, the Cutter Saber is the best on Grim Grin and Optomon.  With this strategy it appears I could save 16 sec. off my current best on that segment.

All told, with the revised strategies it adds up to about 1m 17s that I can save if all goes well and there's still plenty of time I can save due to better health management, movement, and luck on enemy and miniboss spawns.

Most of the credit here for these revised strats goes to theseawolf1, though.  The Corridor 1, 5, and 6 entries, the "flower" mini-boss fight strat, and the Clawbot strat he used in his run and my Red Optomon strat is the strat he used on the Red Optomon in the final corridor in his run.  He also helped me analyze my new Cutter Saber boss strats when I was streaming my testing the other day.  Thanks seawolf!

Now it's on me to make good use of this all!

ZakkyTheHybrid

2013-12-09 10:58:21 pm

Goatragon!

Apologies for the consecutive post, but I think this is best as its own post.

Using two memory addresses (0043 and 0044) listed in the topic on the TASvideos forum (http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3834&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100), I was able to do a bit of research into item drops.

Whenever an enemy is killed 0043 increments. The increment varies depending on the enemy killed. When 0043 overflows, 0044 increments.

Items are dropped when the value of 0043 either hits or passes a certain value. This happens 8 times each cycle.

The first 7 items dropped are always the same.

1st item - Heart (0043 = 50)
2nd item - Red Chip (0043 = 80)
3rd item - Blue Chip (0043 = 100)
4th item - Heart (0043 = 140)
5th item - Heart (0043 = 180)
6th item - Red Chip (0043 = 220)
7th item - Red Chip (0043 = 230)

The 8th item drop occurs on the overflow and varies based on the overflow cycle. However the rotation is always the same and after the fourth cycle it repeats.

1st cycle - Red Chip
2nd cycle - Energy Tank
3rd cycle - Energy Tank
4th cycle - Enemy Erasers (Energy Tank if no Enemy Erasers have been collected yet)

Something important to note is that the counters reset when continuing after death.

I haven't looked much into implementing this anywhere, yet, but I wanted to post my findings in case they could help anyone else. When I have the time, I'll look into making a chart of the values each enemy increments 0043 by.

Apologies for the consecutive post, but I think this is best as its own post.

Using two memory addresses (0043 and 0044) listed in the topic on the TASvideos forum (http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3834&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100), I was able to do a bit of research into item drops.

Whenever an enemy is killed 0043 increments.  The increment varies depending on the enemy killed.  When 0043 overflows, 0044 increments.

Items are dropped when the value of 0043 either hits or passes a certain value.  This happens 8 times each cycle.

The first 7 items dropped are always the same.

1st item - Heart (0043 = 50)
2nd item - Red Chip (0043 = 80)
3rd item - Blue Chip (0043 = 100)
4th item - Heart (0043 = 140)
5th item - Heart (0043 = 180)
6th item - Red Chip (0043 = 220)
7th item - Red Chip (0043 = 230)

The 8th item drop occurs on the overflow and varies based on the overflow cycle.  However the rotation is always the same and after the fourth cycle it repeats.

1st cycle - Red Chip
2nd cycle - Energy Tank
3rd cycle - Energy Tank
4th cycle - Enemy Erasers (Energy Tank if no Enemy Erasers have been collected yet)

Something important to note is that the counters reset when continuing after death.

I haven't looked much into implementing this anywhere, yet, but I wanted to post my findings in case they could help anyone else.  When I have the time, I'll look into making a chart of the values each enemy increments 0043 by.

theseawolf1

Edit history:

theseawolf1: 2013-12-10 07:56:16 pm

2013-12-10 07:51:09 pm

SGL Scrublord

This makes sense, I knew as I played I could expect certain drops with regularity, give or take my aggressiveness. I did not know how ot track a memory address though, so I merely was stabbing at it. This is valuable info, I wonder if the item needs to be opened to move along the cycle or not?

Edit: I again don't have accurate numbers, but several enemies tend to trigger item boxes at a much higher rate. Some to consider:

Overworld: Flowers, the discs that move left/right or up/down, Boulders, the green pineapple thingy that spews bullets like mad
Corridors: The silver gyroscopes, the red terradactyls, the spaceships that fly down and retreat firing lasers

ZakkyTheHybrid

Edit history:

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2013-12-11 09:10:23 pm

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2013-12-11 08:36:48 pm

2013-12-11 12:45:32 pm

Goatragon!

Quote from theseawolf1:

This makes sense, I knew as I played I could expect certain drops with regularity, give or take my aggressiveness. I did not know how ot track a memory address though, so I merely was stabbing at it. This is valuable info, I wonder if the item needs to be opened to move along the cycle or not?

I'm relatively sure the item does not need to be opened to move the cycle along, but I'll definitely double-check this to make sure because I always opened the items while I was testing this.

I've already been manipulating drops on Corridor 0. I make sure to cause 3 item drops before the boss, which allows me to get two heart drops on the boss and thus be far more aggressive than I otherwise could be.

Quote from theseawolf1:

Edit: I again don't have accurate numbers, but several enemies tend to trigger item boxes at a much higher rate. Some to consider:

Overworld: Flowers, the discs that move left/right or up/down, Boulders, the green pineapple thingy that spews bullets like mad
Corridors: The silver gyroscopes, the red terradactyls, the spaceships that fly down and retreat firing lasers

Yes, I've noticed this too. I'm guessing those laser ships have a point value similar if not the same as those flower discs. Conversely there are also some enemies that don't increment the counter at all (I think the turrets right before the boss in Corridor 0 don't give any points, but I'll have to take a closer look at this).

I'll check on whether those boxes actually need to be opened or not and start putting together a chart of all the enemies and their point values on the counter later.

EDIT: I can confirm that you don't have to open a box in order to move the item cycle along.

Also started work on the chart. It can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXvdd-F-o8WdGtPQ3pQT2o5eXM0aDF0cEpqUEN3Wnc&usp=sharing

[quote="theseawolf1"]This makes sense, I knew as I played I could expect certain drops with regularity, give or take my aggressiveness. I did not know how ot track a memory address though, so I merely was stabbing at it. This is valuable info, I wonder if the item needs to be opened to move along the cycle or not?[/quote]

I'm relatively sure the item does not need to be opened to move the cycle along, but I'll definitely double-check this to make sure because I always opened the items while I was testing this.

I've already been manipulating drops on Corridor 0.  I make sure to cause 3 item drops before the boss, which allows me to get two heart drops on the boss and thus be far more aggressive than I otherwise could be.

[quote="theseawolf1"]Edit: I again don't have accurate numbers, but several enemies tend to trigger item boxes at a much higher rate. Some to consider:

Overworld: Flowers, the discs that move left/right or up/down, Boulders, the green pineapple thingy that spews bullets like mad
Corridors: The silver gyroscopes, the red terradactyls, the spaceships that fly down and retreat firing lasers[/quote]

Yes, I've noticed this too.  I'm guessing those laser ships have a point value similar if not the same as those flower discs.  Conversely there are also some enemies that don't increment the counter at all (I think the turrets right before the boss in Corridor 0 don't give any points, but I'll have to take a closer look at this).

I'll check on whether those boxes actually need to be opened or not and start putting together a chart of all the enemies and their point values on the counter later.

EDIT: I can confirm that you don't have to open a box in order to move the item cycle along.

Also started work on the chart.  It can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXvdd-F-o8WdGtPQ3pQT2o5eXM0aDF0cEpqUEN3Wnc&usp=sharing

theseawolf1

2014-01-21 10:04:32 pm

SGL Scrublord

So I got a 53:16 any %. I didn't have another thread to put it into. I imagine a minute can be saved with less derpage. Looking forward to the challenge.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-01-24 01:18:04 am

Goatragon!

Quote from theseawolf1:

So I got a 53:16 any %. I didn't have another thread to put it into. I imagine a minute can be saved with less derpage. Looking forward to the challenge.

I know I've said this already, but I'll say it again. Grats! Definitely looking forward to seeing that improvement!

As for my progress on 100%, I've gotten the time down to 1:20:22 (http://www.twitch.tv/zakkydraggy/c/3597793).

With some more luck and better execution, sub-1:20 is looking like it's going to happen very soon.

Also, I've put together an item cycle chart, a chart of item locations, and started documenting my route, so that it'll be available to anyone else who might be interested in running 100%. The route documentation will probably take me a few days still, but the other charts can be found at the following links:

Item Cycle Chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXvdd-F-o8WdEFjUDZOaVBZWDktMDFUM3Q0djVZcEE&usp=sharing

Item Location Chart (corridor drops are listed under a separate tab): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXvdd-F-o8WdHVuNXE0MmdaOGs3eDA2elc2TkwzT1E&usp=sharing

[quote="theseawolf1"]So I got a 53:16 any %. I didn't have another thread to put it into. I imagine a minute can be saved with less derpage. Looking forward to the challenge.[/quote]

I know I've said this already, but I'll say it again.  Grats!  Definitely looking forward to seeing that improvement!

As for my progress on 100%, I've gotten the time down to 1:20:22 (http://www.twitch.tv/zakkydraggy/c/3597793).

With some more luck and better execution, sub-1:20 is looking like it's going to happen very soon.

Also, I've put together an item cycle chart, a chart of item locations, and started documenting my route, so that it'll be available to anyone else who might be interested in running 100%.  The route documentation will probably take me a few days still, but the other charts can be found at the following links:

Item Cycle Chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXvdd-F-o8WdEFjUDZOaVBZWDktMDFUM3Q0djVZcEE&usp=sharing

Item Location Chart (corridor drops are listed under a separate tab): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXvdd-F-o8WdHVuNXE0MmdaOGs3eDA2elc2TkwzT1E&usp=sharing

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-01-28 01:40:33 am

Goatragon!

All right, sub-1:20 for 100% should now be easily possible, assuming relatively good execution and luck.

One of my stream viewers during my last 100% attempt session reminded me about the trick where you can buy more that one item in a shop by pressing and holding Start and then pressing Select twice while continuing to hold Start. This was something I hadn't even considered as I didn't think I'd have the chips to buy all the items I needed and backtracking later when I did have the chips wouldn't be optimal.

However, it was pointed out to me that two shops have Landers, and Landers, of course, replenish chips when picked up. So I went over my route and made some adjustments.

The shop in Area 4 with the Blue Lander also sells a Bullet Shield. By grabbing the Bullet Shield here, I can save about 15 seconds later on by not having to grab the Bullet Shield in Area 5. I tested skipping the Miniboss in Area 0, but it doesn't save nearly the time skipping the Area 5 Bullet Shield instead does.

The shop in Area 0 with the Red Lander also has a Grenade. By grabbing this, I can do several really important things. The first is that I can skip the Grenade miniboss in Area 7. This means that after the death warp from grabbing the 2 shield power-ups that I can backtrack through Area 6 and through the Area 0 shop that had the Red Lander. I will have to step briefly in and out of the Area 7 checkpoint along the way to Area 8, but even with this the number of screens I will pass through is the same as the route I'd been using.

But the most important part of this is that since I will pass by Corridor 16 on the way back, I can now take on Corridor 16 with 2 more defense than before. Hopefully, this should make using my currently extremely dangerous Cutter Saber strat on the Red Optomon less dangerous and way more consistent to be successful with.

It's looking like this route change will save about 24 seconds. So combined that's nearly 40 seconds worth of savings. I've only tested this on emulator, so far, though, so it'll be interesting to see just how accurate that number turns out to be.

All right, sub-1:20 for 100% should now be [i]easily[/i] possible, assuming relatively good execution and luck.

One of my stream viewers during my last 100% attempt session reminded me about the trick where you can buy more that one item in a shop by pressing and holding Start and then pressing Select twice while continuing to hold Start.  This was something I hadn't even considered as I didn't think I'd have the chips to buy all the items I needed and backtracking later when I did have the chips wouldn't be optimal.

However, it was pointed out to me that two shops have Landers, and Landers, of course, replenish chips when picked up.  So I went over my route and made some adjustments.

The shop in Area 4 with the Blue Lander also sells a Bullet Shield.  By grabbing the Bullet Shield here, I can save about 15 seconds later on by not having to grab the Bullet Shield in Area 5.  I tested skipping the Miniboss in Area 0, but it doesn't save nearly the time skipping the Area 5 Bullet Shield instead does.

The shop in Area 0 with the Red Lander also has a Grenade.  By grabbing this, I can do several really important things.  The first is that I can skip the Grenade miniboss in Area 7.  This means that after the death warp from grabbing the 2 shield power-ups that I can backtrack through Area 6 and through the Area 0 shop that had the Red Lander.  I will have to step briefly in and out of the Area 7 checkpoint along the way to Area 8, but even with this the number of screens I will pass through is the same as the route I'd been using.

But the most important part of this is that since I will pass by Corridor 16 on the way back, I can now take on Corridor 16 with 2 more defense than before.  Hopefully, this should make using my currently extremely dangerous Cutter Saber strat on the Red Optomon less dangerous and way more consistent to be successful with.

It's looking like this route change will save about 24 seconds.  So combined that's nearly 40 seconds worth of savings.  I've only tested this on emulator, so far, though, so it'll be interesting to see just how accurate that number turns out to be.

theseawolf1

2014-01-28 07:33:50 pm

SGL Scrublord

Due to increased interest in any% (and the fact the any% thread is buried under 2 years of posts) I'm attaching a few files to this post. The first is my basic route. Next will be general guidelines in corridors and against bosses.

Attachment:

TGL anypercent Run Path.doc

theseawolf1

2014-02-05 03:40:57 pm

SGL Scrublord

Hmm, can't add to a previous post eh? Well here's my write up on Corridor strategy and Boss tricks. I have not much to offer on the sub-corridors, since I never run them Tongue

Attachment:

TGL Boss Strategies.doc

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-02-08 10:22:50 pm

Goatragon!

FINALLY competed documentation of my route. I have not double-checked my item counts and directions, yet, and some parts of the route I have not tested, but it is the route I am currently using for 100%. I also have not added info on the corridors themselves, only the bosses so far, but I will add that in soon. I will also try to put together some tutorial boss fight videos at some point.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/116vqysFtiERc-3CyYQAZaXPR3sIlUkcBKyw8Ebj9KpA/edit?usp=sharing

If anyone finds any errors before I have the chance to double-check, please let me know.

deepshock

2014-02-10 07:12:12 am

I'm doing some practice for this,and I've just started the first few days of what are likely to be quite a few weeks at least, probably a few months. If one was going to try to do this without self-destructs, how much more time spent would be a reasonable expectation? I figure it'd end up having to be its own category.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-02-10 12:39:29 pm

Goatragon!

I think this early on it might be hard to say. Do you have a route yet?

deepshock

Edit history:

deepshock: 2014-02-10 12:44:43 pm

2014-02-10 12:43:52 pm

Adorable green puffball

I haven't yet secured a specific route, but looking at the map tonight, especially the door and item locations, should help me secure one.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-02-10 12:46:44 pm

Goatragon!

I should have asked this before, are you working on Any% or 100%?

deepshock

2014-02-10 12:49:48 pm

Adorable green puffball

I was planning on doing an Any% first, and once that was completed, a 100%.

ZakkyTheHybrid

Edit history:

ZakkyTheHybrid: 2014-02-10 02:04:58 pm

2014-02-10 12:58:21 pm

Goatragon!

Cool!

I don't think I could come up with a good estimate on Any% I am neither up to date on the route nor experienced with it, but I could try to work out an estimate for 100% if that will help any. It would only be based on if you used my current 100% route, but did not death warp, but it might provide a good starting target.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. It is always good to see more interest in this game.

EDIT: I examined my most recent PB. Not death warping with my current 100% route results in about +8:30 which would make 1:28 a fair baseline. But with good execution, luck, and route optimization for deathless I am pretty sure at least several minutes can be saved off of that.

deepshock

Edit history:

deepshock: 2014-02-11 09:12:39 am

deepshock: 2014-02-11 08:52:22 am

deepshock: 2014-02-11 06:01:58 am

deepshock: 2014-02-11 05:55:46 am

deepshock: 2014-02-11 05:55:30 am

deepshock: 2014-02-11 05:52:23 am

deepshock: 2014-02-11 05:48:55 am

2014-02-11 05:40:59 am

Adorable green puffball

Thanks, ZakkyDraggy. For Any% I'm likely to just hit the fireball and the Red Lander before area 1. To practice, I'm going to start from the beginning and play until I lose once, then try again from scratch sometime later. Think of it as a 'hardcore' mode of sorts.

I'll try taking E (Red Lander) and G (fireball) in this map. G may be a tiny detour but it'll work for now, at least until I get good enough to be able to beat the area 1 boss -quickly- without the fireball.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/587320-the-guardian-legend/faqs/63285

Here's my initial route plan.

Area 0 (X/Y)

Start Area 0 11/12
Red Lander 8/11
(POSSIBLE Energy Shot L1 8/9)
Corridor 1 6/10
To Area 2 6/13
Start Area 2 6/14
Speed Boost 2/17

(POSSIBLE Energy Shot L2 1/18)
(POSSIBLE Blue 3/14)
Corridor 2 2/16

To Area 0 6/14

Start Area 0 6/13
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 8/13)
To Area 3 8/15
Start Area 3 8/16
Corridor 3 4/20
To Area 0 8/16
Start Area 0 8/15
[Taking SW to NW path, because I took everything in the NE-NW path that's relevant]
Beam Shot 9/14
Center 11/12
To Area 4 13/7
Start Area 4 13/7
Twin Blades 17/2
Unlock Corridor 4 18/0
Corridor 4 20/0
To Area 0 13/7
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 14/2)
To Area 5 16/2
Start Area 5 16/8
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 19/8, 22/4)
Corridor 5 23/4
To 0 16/8
To Corridor 6 16/11
To Area 6 15/12
Start 6 17/11
(POSSIBLE Energy Shot L3 18/12)
Miniboss/Red Lander 18/16
To Area 7 18/17
Start 7 18/18
Corridor 7 19/23
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 16/18)
To Area 0 15/15
Start Area 0 15/14
To C8 10/16
To Area 9 9/7
Start Area 9 8/7
Shield Upgrade 6/3

(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 5/3)
Red Lander 3/3
Corridor 9 2/2
To Area 0 8/7
Start Area 0 9/7
To Area 10 11/7
Start Area 10 11/6
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 11/3)
Life Tank 12/4
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 12/0)
Corridor 10 11/0
To Area 0 11/6
To Area 21 9/11 (FINAL)

I'll work out a 100% run when I'm finished this one.

Thanks, ZakkyDraggy. For Any% I'm likely to just hit the fireball and the Red Lander before area 1. To practice, I'm going to start from the beginning and play until I lose once, then try again from scratch sometime later. Think of it as a 'hardcore' mode of sorts.

I'll try taking E (Red Lander) and G (fireball) in this map. G may be a tiny detour but it'll work for now, at least until I get good enough to be able to beat the area 1 boss -quickly- without the fireball.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/587320-the-guardian-legend/faqs/63285

Here's my initial route plan.

Area 0 (X/Y)

Start Area 0 11/12
Red Lander 8/11
(POSSIBLE Energy Shot L1 8/9)
Corridor 1 6/10
To Area 2 6/13
Start Area 2 6/14
Speed Boost 2/17

(POSSIBLE Energy Shot L2 1/18)
(POSSIBLE Blue 3/14)
Corridor 2 2/16

To Area 0 6/14

Start Area 0 6/13
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 8/13)
To Area 3 8/15
Start Area 3 8/16
Corridor 3 4/20
To Area 0 8/16
Start Area 0 8/15
[Taking SW to NW path, because I took everything in the NE-NW path that's relevant]
Beam Shot 9/14
Center 11/12
To Area 4 13/7
Start Area 4 13/7
Twin Blades 17/2
Unlock Corridor 4 18/0
Corridor 4 20/0
To Area 0 13/7
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 14/2)
To Area 5 16/2
Start Area 5 16/8
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 19/8, 22/4)
Corridor 5 23/4
To 0 16/8
To Corridor 6 16/11
To Area 6 15/12
Start 6 17/11
(POSSIBLE Energy Shot L3 18/12)
Miniboss/Red Lander 18/16
To Area 7 18/17
Start 7 18/18
Corridor 7 19/23
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 16/18)
To Area 0 15/15
Start Area 0 15/14
To C8 10/16
To Area 9 9/7
Start Area 9 8/7
Shield Upgrade 6/3

(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 5/3)
Red Lander 3/3
Corridor 9 2/2
To Area 0 8/7
Start Area 0 9/7
To Area 10 11/7
Start Area 10 11/6
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 11/3)
Life Tank 12/4
(POSSIBLE Miniboss, not sure if its item will save time long-term 12/0)
Corridor 10 11/0
To Area 0 11/6
To Area 21 9/11 (FINAL)

I'll work out a 100% run when I'm finished this one.

ZakkyTheHybrid

2014-02-11 09:52:01 am

Goatragon!

There is one thing I can suggest right away. The Red Lander is definitely a must, but you do not need the Energy Shot (I usually go by the manual and call this MultiBullets). Go south from the start and grab the Saber Laser (the map you linked refers to this as Beam Shot) at 9/14. Then follow the map up to the Red Lander at 8/11 and head on to Corridor 1.

The Saber Laser will really help because you can use it in addition to your gun to unseal Corridor 1 faster and it is the fastest way to kill the Corridor 1 boss. Theseawolf1 and I use it in both of our run routes.

I have not had the chance to look over the rest of your route yet, but awesome to see you have a plan. If you have any questions, by all means feel free to ask.

deepshock

Edit history:

deepshock: 2014-02-11 10:05:30 am

deepshock: 2014-02-11 10:02:00 am

2014-02-11 09:59:50 am

Adorable green puffball

Are Blues any use whatsoever if they aren't on the direct path? I know Reds are for sure, but will the health refill and the extra heart container be worth, say, a one screen detour?