The Future of SDA

2015-02-07 03:23:23 pm

Not a walrus

I downloaded a feed reader and it popped up the two feeds when I went to the front page (since they're in the <head> section), but yeah, there should probably be a more direct link somewhere.

UraniumAnchor

2015-02-11 10:32:36 am

Not a walrus

So the culmination of a lot of tiny things finally came to a head today:

http://speeddemosarchive.com/SilentBomber.html

Is the first automatically generated game page to be officially published.

I think that deserves a bottle of champagne, frankly.

Radix

2015-02-11 10:35:37 am

I'm addicted to games

Woohoo, 1 down... a lot to go. But you've gotta start somewhere. Congrats UA Smiley

IsraeliRD

2015-02-11 10:43:44 am

Dragon Power Supreme

Big congrats to UA for this, as this is actually a big milestone as we shift towards better gamepages and SDA as a whole.

presjpolk

2015-02-11 11:04:52 am

HELLO!

Thank you UraniumAnchor, and everyone who worked toward that. That's very happy news.

Alko

2015-02-11 01:58:51 pm

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

To the future of SDA! *pours out the good vodka*

Sonikkustar

2015-02-11 03:39:42 pm

The Great Farming Empire

Holy crap. I can only imagine how much time this would cut off from having to process publications manually. Thanks UraniumAnchor and cheers to the future! Smiley

btw, That Silent Bomber game looks absolutely awesome.

gammadragon

2015-02-12 01:05:36 am

Might be magic...

Brilliant work UA!

shotgunninja

2015-02-12 08:37:40 am

Howdy!

Nice, UA! Having automatic content generation is awesome.

Also, to echo some of the commentary on Page 1 of this thread a bit (the rest of the thread was TL;DR), have we given any thought to having two separate categories of video submissions, ie. "SDA Certified" versus "Uncertified"?

The SDA Certified category would be identical to the current SDA verification process; I wouldn't change what we have there. But the Uncertified category might allow for things which may be new records or new routes, but don't live up to all of the requirements of the SDA verification process, such as Twitch stream VODs and unapproved-emulator runs. These would better serve the mission goal of being a central community hub, by providing games which don't have their own designated websites with a place to store and locate new videos, and speeding up the new content release process for games which fall through the cracks between SDA verification and total dead community. In addition, this would promote growth of lesser games, runners, and categories by giving them a place to thrive and be shown to others. Overall, my biggest gripe about SDA is the lack of any formal support for videos which can't pass verification for one reason or another, but are still good content in themselves.

Nice, UA! Having automatic content generation is awesome.

Also, to echo some of the commentary on Page 1 of this thread a bit (the rest of the thread was TL;DR), have we given any thought to having two separate categories of video submissions, ie. "SDA Certified" versus "Uncertified"?

The SDA Certified category would be identical to the current SDA verification process; I wouldn't change what we have there. But the Uncertified category might allow for things which may be new records or new routes, but don't live up to all of the requirements of the SDA verification process, such as Twitch stream VODs and unapproved-emulator runs. These would better serve the mission goal of being a central community hub, by providing games which don't have their own designated websites with a place to store and locate new videos, and speeding up the new content release process for games which fall through the cracks between SDA verification and total dead community. In addition, this would promote growth of lesser games, runners, and categories by giving them a place to thrive and be shown to others. Overall, my biggest gripe about SDA is the lack of any formal support for videos which can't pass verification for one reason or another, but are still good content in themselves.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2015-02-12 08:41:33 am

2015-02-12 08:41:23 am

HELLO!

I think it doesn't have to get that 'official.' Just posting links to important runs in the news would seem to be good enough?

shotgunninja

Edit history:

shotgunninja: 2015-02-12 09:05:59 am

2015-02-12 09:05:34 am

Howdy!

I think that would help a bit, but it still would make it hard to find runs which are important but not necessarily verifiable, since you'd be swapping out searching through the forums and Google for searching through the news posts, and once we start to accumulate a lot of old news posts, that can get difficult. I mean, it's definitely a good idea to do, I just don't know if it's enough to help with the problems of lesser-known or lesser-liked games and communities, since you're still depending on SDA choosing to post about them in their news posts, ie. favoritism.

shotgunninja

Edit history:

shotgunninja: 2015-02-12 09:12:54 am

shotgunninja: 2015-02-12 09:12:17 am

shotgunninja: 2015-02-12 09:12:01 am

2015-02-12 09:11:46 am

Howdy!

I feel like if we have some system for organizing links to non-verified runs of other games, maybe on a per-game basis, that might be an appropriate compromise. Hosting unverified run videos would be an intense load on storage capacity, but links and CMS-driven pages per game are cheap. Just have an aggregate page per game for links to both SDA verified runs and unverified VODs, and you'll do wonders for serving as a hub for hosting different games.

The only problems I can foresee with this solution is that (a) who maintains these pages and how, (b) how vague/specific do we get when it comes to categorization and organization of these pages, and (c) what sort of data model would we use to represent these uniformly? (though that's just my POV as a web software guy).

Radix

2015-02-12 10:40:50 am

I'm addicted to games

Unverified runs will just be links elsewhere on the internet, not stored on sda itself.

Mystery

2015-02-15 01:32:28 pm

Quote from shotgunninja:

Nice, UA! Having automatic content generation is awesome.

Also, to echo some of the commentary on Page 1 of this thread a bit (the rest of the thread was TL;DR), have we given any thought to having two separate categories of video submissions, ie. "SDA Certified" versus "Uncertified"?

The SDA Certified category would be identical to the current SDA verification process; I wouldn't change what we have there. But the Uncertified category might allow for things which may be new records or new routes, but don't live up to all of the requirements of the SDA verification process, such as Twitch stream VODs and unapproved-emulator runs. These would better serve the mission goal of being a central community hub, by providing games which don't have their own designated websites with a place to store and locate new videos, and speeding up the new content release process for games which fall through the cracks between SDA verification and total dead community. In addition, this would promote growth of lesser games, runners, and categories by giving them a place to thrive and be shown to others. Overall, my biggest gripe about SDA is the lack of any formal support for videos which can't pass verification for one reason or another, but are still good content in themselves.

SDA is also about high-quality videos, not just certification, so with that suggestion, I'd like to see at least "three" categories: unverified, high quality (hosted or otherwise) and certified (the current SDA process).

The main problem with links is also that material on the web does not always tend to stay online. Something that's available now might not be available in two years, which means we lost the "archive" property which is part of SDA. The best thing would be to, if possible, to host these external videos on Archive and link them in the game page as is done for all current SDA runs. Of course, I realize that's not always possible, but I think it's nice to strive for it (contacting authors, downloading, uploading, etc).

I will also reiterate that I'd like to see focus on trying to get as many people as possible to record/stream in as high quality as possible. If a runner only does low quality streams due to lack of technical know-how, it would be nice if someone (or a group of people or a dedicated site, etc) could reach out to these and help them optimize the recording/streams for optimal viewing pleasure. SDA has traditionally been about high quality videos, so why lose that property? Try to ensure as much high quality content as possible given existing constraints seems to me like it would be a nice middle ground between high quality SDA submissions and the traditional streamed runs.

Well, that's my N <insert currency here>, anyway.

[quote="shotgunninja"]Nice, UA! Having automatic content generation is awesome.

Also, to echo some of the commentary on Page 1 of this thread a bit (the rest of the thread was TL;DR), have we given any thought to having two separate categories of video submissions, ie. "SDA Certified" versus "Uncertified"?

The SDA Certified category would be identical to the current SDA verification process; I wouldn't change what we have there. But the Uncertified category might allow for things which may be new records or new routes, but don't live up to all of the requirements of the SDA verification process, such as Twitch stream VODs and unapproved-emulator runs. These would better serve the mission goal of being a central community hub, by providing games which don't have their own designated websites with a place to store and locate new videos, and speeding up the new content release process for games which fall through the cracks between SDA verification and total dead community. In addition, this would promote growth of lesser games, runners, and categories by giving them a place to thrive and be shown to others. Overall, my biggest gripe about SDA is the lack of any formal support for videos which can't pass verification for one reason or another, but are still good content in themselves.[/quote]
SDA is also about high-quality videos, not just certification, so with that suggestion, I'd like to see at least "three" categories: unverified, high quality (hosted or otherwise) and certified (the current SDA process).

The main problem with links is also that material on the web does not always tend to stay online. Something that's available now might not be available in two years, which means we lost the "archive" property which is part of SDA. The best thing would be to, if possible, to host these external videos on Archive and link them in the game page as is done for all current SDA runs. Of course, I realize that's not always possible, but I think it's nice to strive for it (contacting authors, downloading, uploading, etc).

I will also reiterate that I'd like to see focus on trying to get as many people as possible to record/stream in as high quality as possible. If a runner only does low quality streams due to lack of technical know-how, it would be nice if someone (or a group of people or a dedicated site, etc) could reach out to these and help them optimize the recording/streams for optimal viewing pleasure. SDA has traditionally been about high quality videos, so why lose that property? Try to ensure as much high quality content as possible given existing constraints seems to me like it would be a nice middle ground between high quality SDA submissions and the traditional streamed runs.

Well, that's my N <insert currency here>, anyway.

Sonikkustar

2015-02-24 08:35:56 pm

The Great Farming Empire

A bit of a nitpick, But it would be appreciated if community updates and speed run updates were separated. I know this is weird, but right now it's kinda hard to tell if the update is for the community or for replacing current SDA runs aside from reading the text. Maybe have the heading a different color would help discern the two?

UraniumAnchor

2015-02-24 10:48:46 pm

Not a walrus

For now a pretty good indicator is if Vulajin is posting it, it's community news. But we do have some plans to differentiate stuff like that more easily.

Vulajin

2015-02-25 02:19:49 am

For now I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to add a "Community news:" label on my posts. I'll go back and update today's post accordingly.

Emptyeye

2015-02-25 04:13:10 pm

Talk to the Hand

Quote from UraniumAnchor:

So the culmination of a lot of tiny things finally came to a head today:

http://speeddemosarchive.com/SilentBomber.html

Is the first automatically generated game page to be officially published.

I think that deserves a bottle of champagne, frankly.

I'm late here, but hoooooly shit this is huge. I know over the past couple years there have been some neat backend improvements to make submission and whatnot easier. But that was never the big bottleneck to my eyes; the hold up was always between verification and posting. Auto-generated pages are a huge first step toward knocking out some of that processing time.

Seconding the champagne idea. Or maybe vodka.

UraniumAnchor

2015-02-26 01:21:44 am

Not a walrus

Sort of a general question for you guys: How useful would you find more dynamic content on the front page, such as recent submissions/verifications, personal notifications (for if a game you're watching gets a run submitted, for example), and maybe a list of online streams for a randomly selected game? Or is there anything else in particular you'd like to see?

Lag.Com

2015-02-26 02:08:49 am

sda loyalist

A more 'dashboard-style' homepage would definitely help the website feel more useful, in my opinion.

Naegleria

(user is banned)

2015-02-26 03:56:43 am

Dynamic content would be really cool, I think it's more of a question of what content should be there and how should it be displayed.

Personal notifications for particular games would be cool. It would not only let people know when a new runs are published, it would also tell them if a run has just been submitted and needs verifiers. (speedrun.com's notification system for runs needing verification is really good).

Knowledge Base changes also merit being on the home page, both recently made pages and recently modified pages would be cool to see. Personal notifications could also be apply to the KB stuff as well I guess, I'd just like to see more promotion of the KB overall.

Online streams could potentially be integrated with twitch profiles (thats what speedrun.tv does), but I'm not sure if the goal is to make SDA a one-stop shop. I'd suggest having links to SRL, speedrun.tv, and any other notable sites that already do this if you want to keep it separate. (links to speedrun.com and other sites like that would be cool too).

Community News is cool, having the general ones like vulajin posted is neat, but allowing for personalized ultra-specific news specific to a single game you follow could be interesting.

Similar to what youtube has with the homepage letting you switch"what to watch/my subscriptions/music" I think the options of "recent runs/community news/personal notifications" would be better than listing all them at once (unless they have a small side-bar like the tweets section of speedrun.com). Better than that would be having each section be selected; have a "show all" box that you can check, or have a "show recent runs" or "show community news" box which you can check to display info about that. Default to "show all" or default to have all being checked. Some people might prefer having each section on a different page altogether, but I personally prefer having all the content in one page. Not sure if I'm a minority on that though.

Dynamic content would be really cool, I think it's more of a question of what content should be there and how should it be displayed.

Personal notifications for particular games would be cool.  It would not only let people know when a new runs are published, it would also tell them if a run has just been submitted and needs verifiers.  (speedrun.com's notification system for runs needing verification is really good).

Knowledge Base changes also merit being on the home page, both recently made pages and recently modified pages would be cool to see.  Personal notifications could also be apply to the KB stuff as well I guess, I'd just like to see more promotion of the KB overall.

Online streams could potentially be integrated with twitch profiles (thats what speedrun.tv does), but I'm not sure if the goal is to make SDA a one-stop shop.  I'd suggest having links to SRL, speedrun.tv, and any other notable sites that already do this if you want to keep it separate.  (links to speedrun.com and other sites like that would be cool too).

Community News is cool, having the general ones like vulajin posted is neat, but allowing for personalized ultra-specific news specific to a single game you follow could be interesting.

Similar to what youtube has with the homepage letting you switch"what to watch/my subscriptions/music" I think the options of "recent runs/community news/personal notifications" would be better than listing all them at once (unless they have a small side-bar like the tweets section of speedrun.com).  Better than that would be having each section be selected; have a "show all" box that you can check, or have a "show recent runs" or "show community news" box which you can check to display info about that.  Default to "show all" or default to have all being checked.  Some people might prefer having each section on a different page altogether, but I personally prefer having all the content in one page.  Not sure if I'm a minority on that though.

gammadragon

2015-02-27 12:19:33 am

Might be magic...

I'm enjoying all the attention that the homepage is getting recently. There are nice regular updates happening and some interesting news. Keep up the good work!

Like the idea of dashboard / dynamic content as well - it could easily start becoming a destination if it was well designed. It's not an easy thing to get right first time though - probably needs a few attempts with feedback.

z1mb0bw4y

2015-02-27 08:09:59 am

Gets the cake.

Quote from UraniumAnchor:

Sort of a general question for you guys: How useful would you find more dynamic content on the front page, such as recent submissions/verifications, personal notifications (for if a game you're watching gets a run submitted, for example), and maybe a list of online streams for a randomly selected game? Or is there anything else in particular you'd like to see?

If this is doable, this all sounds really really awesome. Especially the personal notifications and random game stream highlight. How would the random game streams be done? If it was a game of the week thing, I could see that being very very very cool for getting people into new games.

presjpolk

Edit history:

presjpolk: 2015-02-27 08:35:11 am

presjpolk: 2015-02-27 08:26:36 am

2015-02-27 08:23:17 am

HELLO!

I would suggest that dynamic fluff added to the site should be geared toward keeping the user on site. So favor stuff like runs needing verifiers, active public verifications, recent verifications, randomly selected KB game page, recent publications (yes, even though those are in the news feed, the news feed is expanding so it's still good to have), and trending forum threads (some combination of most recent posts/views/social links). Edit: Get the new Brossentified SDA twitter feed on there, too.

Edit2: A thing like Chartbeat.com can work for getting some data on what's currently trending on site.

Dynamic stuff that takes the user off site should be used sparingly. It should be *done*, but it should be the minority. Live Team SDA streams would be a great thing to add.

Further, and I'm sure this is going to sound annoying, but every page on site should have prominent links on top or on the side to all the major areas on site: KB, Forums, Publications, Recent verification activity, Live Streams.

SDA has a lot to offer, but it has to find ways to get people to see it better. It's a shame when people think "Oh SDA? The only good thing there are the forums." Fortunately there are known techniques to keep user engagement on a website, and getting them in people's faces is the core concept there.

I would suggest that dynamic fluff added to the site should be geared toward keeping the user on site.  So favor stuff like runs needing verifiers, active public verifications, recent verifications, randomly selected KB game page, recent publications (yes, even though those are in the news feed, the news feed is expanding so it's still good to have), and trending forum threads (some combination of most recent posts/views/social links).  Edit: Get the new Brossentified SDA twitter feed on there, too.

Edit2: A thing like Chartbeat.com can work for getting some data on what's currently trending on site.

Dynamic stuff that takes the user off site should be used sparingly. It should be *done*, but it should be the minority.  Live Team SDA streams would be a great thing to add.

Further, and  I'm sure this is going to sound annoying, but every page on site should have prominent links on top or on the side to all the major areas on site: KB, Forums, Publications, Recent verification activity, Live Streams.

SDA has a lot to offer, but it has to find ways to get people to see it better.   It's a shame when people think "Oh SDA? The only good thing there are the forums."  Fortunately there are known techniques to keep user engagement on a website, and getting them in people's faces is the core concept there.

Mystery

2015-02-27 08:37:15 am

Quote from presjpolk:

Dynamic stuff that takes the user off site should be used sparingly. It should be *done*, but it should be the minority. Live Team SDA streams would be a great thing to add.

That would depend on what "off site" means, exactly. Does it include links to live streams? Links to youtube videos?

Anyway, I think dynamic content would be awesome. Question is what should it include? That's pretty hard to define, though, and would probably need some experimentation.
To me,

Runs needing verifiers,
Active public verifications,
Recent verifications,
Randomly selected KB game page,
Recent publications
Trending forum threads

don't really interest me at all. But of course, I can see it interesting other people. From a watcher's perspective, what interests me are videos of and discussions around interesting games. So links to runs on youtube, twitch, maybe even links to discussions on other forums, etc would be of much more interest to me than the above.